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"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
~ Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
"If our nation is ever taken over, it will be taken over from within."
~ James Madison, President of the United States
 Nancy LIEder is a HOAXER!
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This is a database of facts about Nancy LIEder!!!! First who is Nancy LIEder??!!  BIO: Author / Webmaster of zetatalk.com, Nancy Lieder has lead the campaign to inform and prepare the public about the coming events in 2003. With a documented track record of earth changes since Zetatalk's inception in 1995, Nancy is also founder of Troubled Times, a non-profit organization devoted to offering solutions to surviving a potential upcoming pole shift. Nancy has appeared on numerous radio programs. The book ZetaTalk is a grand compilation of information communicated telepathically by teams of visitors from Zeta Reticuli to their emissary, Nancy Lieder an enhanced contactee. Truly one of the most fascinating sites on the Web. ZetaTalk is a forum for aliens from ZetaReticuli, who communicate through an "emissary" living in Wisconsin named Nancy Lieder. According to the Zetas, the earth is due for some major upheavals in the late Spring of 2003 as a large, as yet undiscovered planet (the 12th planet) barrels through our solar system, causeing a major shift in the earth's magnetic alignment (polar shift). It makes for some VERY interesting reading. Nancy explains how the Zetas convinced her to quit her job and move to Wisconsin : ..."But I'll tell you about a moaning/groaning begging-for-a-sign time when I was first deciding to make the moves I've done these past couple years. I'm getting up there, 60, not strong, not financially anything but on the edge, and my family (except for one person) is not supportive of what I do. So I wanted a SOLID SIGN from the Zetas before I burned bridges and moved to Wisco and all. "Give me a sign!!!"" "So, I had a visitation from Pumpkin heads (the big guys, see Zeta Types in Worlds) and they told me that when I went into my office I'd find the MUFON mags turned face down, not up as usual, and that would be my sign. So I went in, all excited, and they were face up. Got hysterical. Another visitation, and they said "this is why we don't give signs on demand! If they go wrong, or are perceived wrong, hysterics, etc." So I understood, not on demand. A week later I'm in a movie house, alone, trying to relax, and get the sense that a Zeta came in and sat beside me, and I'd find a candy wrapper in my pocket or some such. I was eating Star Bursts, glued shut cardboard box, welded plastic wrapper around individually wrapped pieces. You have to break your fingernails to get the candy, practically. So I'm eating along and get to the last piece. It's not individually wrapped in wax paper. Now, EVERY Star Burst is so wrapped, by machine, I have no doubt. So, I figured that was my sign, when I wasn't expecting it." Prepared by: Johnny Heintz Archived: Planet X: Fact or Fiction http://www.parous.net/pxff/
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Nancy Lieder Interview on KROQ, May 16, 2003(?) Transcript from: http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5364 Audio file: http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/kroq/kbaud...cy_zetatalk.asxInterviewer 1: What about the last question for me Nancy, and you are terrific for talking to us today but, what about our listeners who have followed your advice and taken their dogs to Puppy Lake because of the impending collapse of America? What happens to them now? Nancy: The puppies, the puppies didn't think that anything worse was happening to them than getting their annual rabies shot, and it didn't feel any different to them. Interviewer 1: So they are in a happy place now? Ok? Nancy: Yeah I mean they are in a happy place. I suspect there is a nice place in Puppy Heaven for those puppies. Interviewer 2: Was that really your advice? (laughter from radio people, one woman in the studio says "I don't remember it?") Interviewer 2: You weren't really advising people to drown their dogs were you? Nancy: Yeah... Interviewer 2: You were? Nancy: (stuttering) Yeah, well, (stuttering) and, and well the fact is they are gonna starve and be injured... Interviewer 1: Nancy....? (in disbelief) Nancy: .....and they'll be in a worse situation.... Or eaten. Interviewer 1: What if you are wrong though and someone has killed their dog though? Nancy: (pause) I love dogs... you have to know.... Interviewer: We can tell that... Nancy: .....when I have a dog, its my lap baby. Even... I have German Shepherds and they sit on my lap. Interviewer 1: Alright... have you killed your dogs? Nancy: (pause) You just take them to the vet and, and they give them a shot... Interviewer 1: Have you done that? Did you do that? Interviewer 2: Ugh.... This has turned ugly! Nancy: Yes, yes, yes... (intelligible astonishment from the Radio people... One women in the studio asks "Did you do that?") Nancy: ... and you sing to them and you stroke their little nose... You know? Interviewer 1: Nancy, how old were your dogs when you took them to put them down? Nancy: Oh, this one was only 18 months...Yeah... Interviewer 1: (Astonished) Oh Nancy! (Laughs in disbelief) What are you doing? Woman: You can go to a safe place, why don't you just take your dogs with you? Nancy: Because what are you going to feed those dogs? (Interviewer laughs) Nancy: What... If there is a food shortage and all your neighbours can't go to the grocery store and they have hunted down the wildlife to nothing, they are gonna.... You know a dog makes a good meal.... Interviewer 1: Oh Nancy!!! (disgusted laugh) Nancy: ... and, and then soon your dog is missing.... Interviewer 1: (mockingly) I was so on board with you baby, until right now! Now Nancy, you.... Im sure that you meet with people every day that think you are just full blown nuts... Nancy: Oh yeah... Interviewer 1: What do you say to them? Nancy: I don't care what you think Im getting the message out, take it or leave it, its your business, its your life. But, I feel sorry for anybody who has small children who's gonna not at least keep an eye out for that day the sun goes down a couple of hours late, you know... Interviewer 2: (sarcastically) Take them to puppy lake, right. Interviewer 1: Alright Nancy we are out of time.... Nancy: (interrupting) You still have time to go to Puppy Heaven, you know, at that point in time.... Interviewer 2: Oh good... Now that's an important point... Nancy: I never said do it now... Interviewer 2: Awww Jeez.... Nancy: .....just do it before the pole shift. Interviewer 1: ZetaTalk.com, Nancy we will talk to you in about a week... Thanks for your time. Nancy: Thank you... bye, bye now. (continues into disgusted, mocking and amazed chatter about what Nancy has just
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Minister Of Information
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I know this is long but read it!! It shows how she systematicly LIES and then says she is 100% accurate!! Nancy LIEder's Bloopers!!!!!!! ""May 15, 2003 is given as the date but it has always been stated "shortly thereafter". Nancy Lieder [Failed prediction] ""As we have predicted in 1995, there will be increasing crop shortages to the point where commercial crops will fail for the next 3 years running. Not in 1999 but during the 3 years following, going into the coming pole shift." Nancy Lieder [Failed prediction] "You will NOT be allowed to invade Iraq as expected, to succeed, and your secret plans, your smug deals with allies, will FAIL!" Nancy Lieder [Failed prediction] "Planet X will be visible in the daytime sky, 7 weeks before passage." Nancy Lieder [Failed prediction] “"Likewise, we have allowed NANCY to look foolish, the latest session last Sunday when she shared her bumbling on asteroids with the public, shamelessly." Nancy Lieder [Failed prediction "white lie."] "Satellites are already getting so much noise that they falter.......this failure rate will not matter as ALL will fail." Nancy Lieder [Failed prediction] "Kid A is NOT a fake that we can tell." Nancy Lieder [Failed prediction] "Thus, the minions are out trying to attack THIS channel, the #poleshiftdiscussion channel, but hold firm! This will not last ....... consider this a temporary attack, diminishing in intensity, and likely to disappear within weeks." Nancy Lieder [Failed prediction. In fact Nancy no longer hosts an IRC session due to so called "debunkers.] "....the photo from Spain appears completely legit..." Nancy Lieder [Failed prediction] "Thus, you actually have the slowdown starting on the 19th........" Nancy Lieder [Failed prediction "white lie."] "......the 20th is a 2-3 hour late sunset...." Nancy Lieder [Failed prediction "white lie."] ......."On the 21st, rotation stops when the Atlantic Rift faces the approaching Planet X." Nancy Lieder [Failed prediction "white lie."] "......May 27th Rotational stoppage....." Nancy Lieder [Failed prediction "white lie."] ".....its goin' to happen before June 1st." Nancy Lieder [Failed prediction "white lie."] When viewing Nancy's statements as a whole (and the above is just a small selection,) one can't help but wonder how anyone can attach any credibility to her words? Her faithful question all other sources, demand absolute proof from their critics yet accept all of her ambiguous, admitted deceptions and "white lies without question or dissent. And just to emphasise that fact, in case anyone hasn't noticed yet, we're already past the June 1st deadline with no Planet X or poleshift. In fact no visible signs what so ever. No mass increase in earthquakes or geological events, no extreme weather, no red dust, no planetary rotation slowing, no loss of communications, nothing. Looking outside here in the UK on this glorious morning you would never suspect the impending doom of mankind. So I guess we should all take Nancy's advice: "GIVE ME A BREAK! If anyone has doubts, then go have a soak and leave me alone!" Nancy Lieder Just how long can Nancy maintain the charade and for how much longer will the faithful continue to buy into her delusion? Will the solitude eventually get to her, forcing Nancy out of hiding for more revealing radio broadcasts? Sounds more like a classic "soap opera." "I had a wonderful German Shepard and we put it down because we knew what was goin' to happen." Nancy Lieder Stay tuned folks for the next enthralling episode of "Zeta Street" where the local neighbourhood aliens have been caught attempting to cause a riot at the human Troubled Times country club, while the authorities try to strip their "emissary" of her ill gotten gains. Let the mayhem begin..... "...we've always allowed a great deal of argument and discussions, pros and cons to go on, encouraged it, the whole Troubled Time mailing list group is one..." Nancy Lieder A few bloopers (probably more white lies) from Nancy's recent radio interview with Lou Gentile. White Lie "It was a deliberate "white lie" to show you what the US government and other governments, such as the US government, who planned to impose martial law and actually rid themselves of a lot of number of unwanted citizens, would do." Ok so let's examine the logic of this "white lie" scenario a little closer. "Going into the week of the 15th, as we all know because I was on YOUR show Lou the 16th they called opera, the US called operation "TOPOFF," a hundred agencies, ahm... mobilised including Canada, err... "WINTER SUN" in New York City, all these terrorist exercises for some week, ahh... for some reason, ahh... that week, so after the 16th when we announced specific dates for the 20th and 21st for rotation stoppage, BOOM... went to level ORANGE in the Homeland security alert system, the next level up allow them to tell you to stay in homes and not leave. Certainly stay in your cities and not leave and this would allow them to trap you on the coast, to trap you in the inland cities that are along, are along the, ahh large rivers. If they wish to they could selectively allow certain citizens to escape, they had good teeth and strong backs and, err.. err... all unwanted mouths to feed would just die. If you don't think this is what they're up to then why didn't they tell YOU, why they were going to this effort, just when the long announced Zetatalk date was arriving? This was a demonstration to show you in a way that could not be said by mere words what they were up to and a cover-up does exist. Back to you Lou." So the Zetas wanted to give us a demonstration knowing how the government would react once faced with a definite date? Knowing through their telepathic abilities exactly what they were about to do. Which begs the question why they didn't hint? After all they could easily keep their credibility had they stated that something was amiss prior to the given dates. After all the government would have no idea of the deception, right, as Nancy was an unwitting dupe too. They could easily have dropped a clue then announced its reasoning after the event as an indication to their sincerity and as form of proof, and let's face it there could have been many ways to carry this off without giving too much away. They could have told everyone to watch events unfold carefully during this period as indications of PX would become apparent. That sort of thing. Instead they said nothing and just deceived everyone leaving them in the air for several days after the failed prediction. Ok so let's assume the deception was necessary to expose the government and reveal their plans. Plans to do what? Blow up bridges and trap the populous? How many cities have only one exit over a single bridge? Come to think of it just how many exits do most cities have? Not that many actually live in the city. Most live in the suburbs, literally spread over hundreds, if not thousands of acres depending on the local. I seriously doubt the authorities would know which road to start with let alone have enough men to seal them all off. And how long do you think they could keep a populous captive in their homes with Richter 15 quakes, (which are those predicted in a pole shift?) How many troops are going to stand guard while the populous and nature turn against them in one almighty catastrophe. No amount of weaponry could stop tens of thousands moving as one once the determination and desperation levels are set. (That's a bit like an ant trying to stop a freight train.) At best they could simply delay, but delay what? Frightened and terrified people that would ultimately scatter once all hell broke lose anyway. They surely wouldn't all die in the ensuing chaos. But suppose they all did manage to escape, so what? What is the most likely sequence of events when all the damage has been done? The Zeta faithful should know. Nancy has it on her web site. Most would inevitably return to the smouldering remains of society shortly after, looking for some vestige of authority to help and assist. The majority aren't going to head for the hills and stay there for any length of time. They'd want medical supplies, food, housing, clothing, heat and protection, but ultimately some kind of guidance which wouldn't be found in solitude out in the wilds somewhere. Nancy knows it, her scenario is on Zetatalk, and you're not telling me the government hasn't thought about that, why else make us all reliant on society as a whole. Which begs the question why the Zetas seem apparently ignorant of this fact, especially when considering they are supposed to be able to read any one mind and see what the majority are thinking. Which means the "lambs" would ultimately return to the "slaughter" whether the Zeta laid out a demonstration or not rendering the "white lie" absolutely redundant. Besides why destroy what little credibility you've already got. And let's face it they are hardly overflowing in those stakes. Another point is that only the US was playing these silly little let's pretend games. Europe was showing no signs of tension. Neither was the middle East, (discounting current wars etc.,) Asia, etc., in fact there appeared to be nothing amiss except for America. Or are we supposed to believe the Zetas only operate within the confines and boundaries of the US. (That's a bit too much like placing all your eggs in one basket for an intergalactic race among many allegedly inhabited planets.) No had the Zetas prepared the ground properly they could have, in one easy step, destroyed their critics and bolstered already waning faith by setting up a demonstration for all to witness. Instead they simply failed on yet another prediction and made a mound of illogical excuses and the more one examines the possibilities the more ludicrous the Zeta explanation becomes. ------o------ Telepathy "We know what is planned, we know maneuvers that are planned long before they are announced in the news or executed err.. this is uhmm.. one way we can ensure that Nancy is not assassinated despite a, ahh... literally thousands of attempts that have been mustered forth and planned uhhh... someone thinks it we know it, we counter it and we hurt that person who put the plan in motion so that... in a way that they understand...." Literally thousands of attempts on Nancy's life? We know it, counter it and hurt that person? Obviously the Zetas didn't do a very good job, or the recipient didn't understand, if over a thousand more attempts followed. More likely they were hurting the wrong person. Which brings into question why they are directly interfering when according to them they are not allowed as I think you could most definitely class hurting humans as interfering. "Those that planned it...." would be the elite as ultimately all plans go through a chain of command from the head down. So how come they didn't get the message after the first few attempts? The Zetas must know who they are through telepathy, can get direct access to literally anyone on the planet, so that's no excuse, why are they then not trembling with fear at the very mention of the name Zeta, as all indications are they could care less. Not very effective, either that or Nancy isn't a very high priority else she wouldn't be around to claim that attempts had been made. ------o------ Zeta Cult "I don't care what people say, they tried to say we're a cult, but a cult requires people to blindly follow that has never been what Zetatalk has said. If you actually read it, it constantly said rely on yourself, use your own, you know, capacity to think, come to your own decisions and we've always allowed a great deal of argument and discussions, pros and cons to go on, encouraged it, the whole Troubled Time mailing list group is one, where people give out this, where maybe its just nothing and its all wet, and maybe this other guy over here, what about this, that's been encouraged because we're asking people to think. If you look at the "sighting" pages, where we ah.. team of people and, and making these images since the fall of 2002, on CCD images, you know, first its a dot, then its a tail haze, and then here are it looks like asteroids, but no there's a moon, that type of thing we deliberately put out our arguments among the sighting tem, no ahmm.. no I think its this, but that couldn't be and, and, we, we put these discussions on the web to show people that among our own team we argue and , and allow dissention and this is to encourage people to jump in and do the same but don't buy a dictate, were asking people to take control of their life and think and look, always have". So why is that, so called "open discussion" on the Troubled Times mailing list heavily moderated and edited, Nancy? Why are only the TT-Inc members the only individuals selected as moderators? Open discussion, absolute rubbish, as I've already shown on this site. (Troubled Times is a dictate and one instigated and set up by Nancy, who ultimately is Zetatalk and Troubled Times.) You'll also note that no where on the "sightings" pages are there any opposing viewpoints, so even in alleged "argument" they all actually agree with one another. (No where does any one member of the sighting team ever state they doubt the existence of Planet X. If they did they wouldn't be there for long. As is becoming evident now with Jan's open dissention, although he himself is a "Kingpin" and pretty much invulnerable.) ------o------ Nancy's German Shepard "Actually, I had a German Shepard dog that was er... feral, it was, it was not erm... socialised enough in the kennel and was 18 months old and we put it down and the vet was utterly relieved, because he was afraid he was going to bite somebody and I could not socialise it, I really tried, uhmmm... and, and ahhh... in fact I, my point was I have put dogs to sleep, pets to sleep when it was necessary without regret, because it's no worse than them getting their rabies shot, uhmm... so I did'nt do that because I thought the pole shift was approaching, although I will tell you that I was very worried about what would happen with that dog, uhmmm... because he would be likely to go off and form a wild dog pack, and, and take children down and, and I would have done it ahead of the pole shift, yes. If, if we hadn't made the decision earlier for other reasons." So why was Nancy "bragging" to the Philly in the morning radio audience, on May 28th that she had done this as part of PX preparation? "I had a wonderful German Shepard and we put it down because we knew what was going to happen." http://www.q102philly.com/ver2/citms/citms_archives.htm You'll note there is no mention of unsocial behaviour. Amazing how skilful Nancy is at lying. ------o------ Suicide "Zetas have never recommended suicide, they have said anyone who knows this is coming and is aware of it has a responsibility to stay alive and help those who are going to be taken by surprise. There's going to be shock and injury and grow up folks and take responsibility and help others. Don't think about the easy way out and suicide is that. Don't do it. That's been there message consistently." So why is it the Zetas recommend suicide, as stated on Nancy's web site? Actually openly promoting the idea of euthanasia. ZetaTalk: Survivors We would suggest that those who wish to commit suicide be allowed to do so. Most certainly those in pain and torment, without hope of recovery or hope of receiving medical treatment when such treatment is scarce or nonexistent, should be allowed this avenue. http://www.zetatalk.com/poleshft/p03.htm ZetaTalk: Suicide We, the Zetas, believe in the right to suicide. Whose life is it, anyway? Suicide has been given a bad name in human societies, by association. The mad man, convinced he has committed crimes in fact not done, destroys his good life. A waste. In fact, this seldom happens, and is much more dramatized in fiction than occurs in fact. Most suicide is undertaken after much agonizing and debate. Most suicide is undertaken when life is truly intolerable, because of never ending pain or because the life circumstances cannot and will not change and are emotionally and mentally intolerable. The humans have cast about for years, seeking solutions, and none are to be found. They are in agony, and wish release. Most suicides do not even hamper others, but are seen as a relief. At last, the others no longer need participate as spectators in the agony. The tortured is at rest. http://www.zetatalk.com/beinghum/b14.htm ZetaTalk: Social Services If the injured is in pain, this means pain medication to the point of stupor or, if no medication exists and the pain is extreme, assisted suicide. Contrary to what humans may have been led to believe, individuals in severe, chronic, and hopelessly painful situations invariably request to be allowed to die. They beg for this, in fact. In Service-to-Other groups, those hopelessly maimed or chronically in pain will be allowed to choose suicide.... http://www.zetatalk.com/transfor/t34.htm ZetaTalk: Basic Similarities In our culture we also do not rule against suicide....Therefore, if any Zeta finds his life circumstances unbearable, he can end his life in a painless manner without strife. http://www.zetatalk.com/hybrids/h02.htm ZetaTalk: Level of Preparation Those who have determined they will likely die, or who are choosing this option, will say their good-byes, much like someone on a deathbed or on a sinking ship. If those around them are refusing to acknowledge the pole shift precursors, these individuals will be treated as though insane, so may be driven to find each other for company and understanding, a type of suicide club. http://www.zetatalk.com/poleshft/p121.htm All rights reserved: ZetaTalk@ZetaTalk.com Indeed at one stage I remember it became a heated topic on the tt-groups when Nancy and her "faithful" claimed it as the "easy and cowardly way out" while some of us argued that suicide was never an easy or wise option, either to make or attempt. She even claimed that the elderly moved to beach front property as a subconscious suicide wish for PX, so the tidal waves would take them swiftly when the pole shift occurred. Troubled Times Realistic Accept inevitable or likely death stoically and with a sense of peace. Those on medical support systems will die. Those dependent on medication will probably die. The seriously injured will probably die. Those who simply can't adjust to a reduced lifestyle, and are endlessly depressed for self focused reasons and want out in suicide should perhaps be allowed to do so. The "if I can't have my house on the beach I'd rather be dead" crowd should be allowed to die! http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/tteam26b.htm------o------ I guess that blows yet another set of Nancy statements out of the water, yet the faithful still believe every last word. "When approaching the point of passage, the shift suddenly happens, and this is before the point when Planet X is actually between the Earth and Sun." May 18th "Please note the photo's received from around the world this past week, showing without doubt that the Planet X complex has moved to be occulting the Sun." Nancy Lieder, July 29th May 18 02 #Zetatalk IRC Planet X grips the Earth, causing rotation stoppage, well before being between the Earth and Sun. It does so because it is approaching from the south, it's north pole to the Earth's south pole, at an angle such that the side of the Earth facing the Sun is more affected by the approach. Thus, while at some distance from the point of passage, it has gripped Earth to the point of not letting the highly magnetized Atlantic Rift go. During this week, the size of the approaching Planet X horrifies those on the daylight side of the Earth. At first a reddish blob only a fraction of the size of the Moon, it grows in size and appears to twist and turn like a dragon in the sky. The ancients recorded this as a fire dragon in the sky, as the tail of swirling moons gave this appearance. When approaching the point of passage, the shift suddenly happens, and this is before the point when Planet X is actually between the Earth and Sun. After the passage, Planet X exits as quickly as it approached. ------o------ From: "nancylieder" <zetatalk@z...> Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 4:20 pm Subject: Planet X Occulting the Sun, Near Ecliptic Please note the photos received from around the world this past week, showing without doubt that the Planet X complex has moved to be occulting the Sun. These photos have been received, unsolicited, from Italy, Belgium, China, New Zealand, Alaska, New Hampshire, and Kentucky, and include webcam captures from Texas, Florida, Colorado, and Santorini. http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/tteam342.htm Photos The complex includes the corpus, dust cloud, moon swirls, and debris caught in the tail. This complex reflects the light of the Sun, which bounces around in the cloud creating a scattered light, as well as the light from Planet X itself as a small smoldering brown dwarf. Thus, it is hard to discern from sunlight or a lumpy or elongated sun except for the remarkable photos which show lens flares from these separate suns or separate dots in the centers individual suns. http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/rogue/nancy315.htm Vertical Flare http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/rogue/nancy325.htm Centered Dot http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/rogue/nancy309.htm Lumpy Sun Please also note the size increase vs a vs a recent Wisconsin crop circle, which had within it the exact triangle described by the Zetas in a vintage ZetaTalk piece, Entry Angle (139 deg at Planet X, 23 deg at Earth, 18 deg at the Sun). This triangle was the basis of the Point of Passage diagram. This crop circle shows, within what are assumed to be Suns, Planet X size as seen from Earth on July 4, mid-July, and what seems to be approaching the size of the complex in occultation now. These size comparisons along with the crop circle can be viewed on the Synergy of Signs page. http://www.zetatalk.com/science/s31.htm Entry Angle http://www.zetatalk.com/theword/tword03y.htm Point of Passage http://www.zetatalk.com/index/zeta16.htm#crop Crop Circle ------o------ Doesn't this mean we should have already had that pole shift according to Nancy's previous statement? Or was this another white lie? (The above blooper was discovered and postJust to remind everyone of the farce thus far. "In all cases where a fraud is being perpetrated, the false channeler must create a massive amount of details, or a single message as a standalone look suspicious. Since none of this is provable, and the humans generating the fraud know they won't be challenged unduly, they wax poetic." Nancy Lieder "It's right THERE, right out in the plain OPEN for anyone to see who has access to a telescope ...." Steve Havas/2001 "Please note that this is happening now, for ME actually last Tuesday evening Mar 26 when we had utterly clear skies here in rural Wisconsin. I was planning to use my binocs but when lining up the spot in the sky to peer at, found a small starlight flash or red light fading in and out in the spot!" Nancy Lieder/2003 "The last time, a couple days ago just before we got heavy cloud cover again, I saw it wink at me even though I could not see Orion's Belt all that clearly and had to peer for it!" Nancy Lieder/2003 "......when it first winked at me I was unsure, went home to check the charts and out again to look and it was winking again, VERY red, RIGHT where it should be. And it has moved, dropped, right on schedule, when I was able to look again. Also saw the two personas in one session, at different times, and found the Red Persona mostly orange light, the White Persona to be very red." Nancy Lieder/2003 "By the way, I saw it today coming home, about 3:00 PM in the daytime sky. Diffuse orange circle larger than the sun, below the sun toward the horizon to the west." Nancy Lieder/2003 ".....yes, I saw it last Tuesday, but is was a VERY clear night!" Nancy Lieder/2003 ".....it was a red, VERY red dot, as bright as a star. I was intending to use a binoc, and didn't even get it up as there it was! I saw this earlier, 20 minutes earlier too, from a different location, so had two sightings, 15-20 minutes apart." Nancy Lieder/2003 Then there's J W Dell who maintained all along on the TT groups and sci-astro that the CCD images contained Planet X, as well as Havas once again. A whole host of anonymous individuals from around the globe who alleged witnessed the jewelled orb, not to mention the reams of photographs plastered on Zetatalk as proof. Then there's the various websites owned by disciples aiding to push all this so called "credibility," J W Dell, Havas, Victoria Ridout, Thomas Garrett Trobaugh, Robert Sephre. With the likes of group moderators and owners such as Jan Rypdal, Milly Gumper, Clipper Ordiway, Brent Freemont, Gerard Zwann, Mike O'Hara, the high profile and verbal officers that the membership are manipulated into trusting and believing. Is it any wonder those who were already leaning towards the concept began to be swayed into believing. After all how can all of these people be so very wrong? Arguing vehemently against all contradictory arguments thrown their way, protecting the membership, forcing and banning all opposing opinion, manipulating and editing the archives and websites so only one side of reality can be presented. But they were proved to be wrong, with some of them now actually admitting their mistake, in half arsed attempts at to placate themselves by yet again altering their sites and making belated apologies to those they may have offended, in the hopes they can slip back into the real world, unnoticed and guiltless. Each one safe and secure in the knowledge that they didn't actually give anything up in the first place, that normal life, their homes, luxuries and comforts are but one easy stride away. (Even Nancy herself.) And these are the so called STO, the service to others, forsaking all to see that everyone else is safe and cared for. "Step right up ladies and gentlemen.... you witness the worst in humankind." ed to me by William Schneider. Thanks Bill.)
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June 1st, 2003 has come and gone. No Planet X, no Pole shift. http://m1.aol.com/deepspacegirl/On May 23, 2003, Nancy Lieder retracted all predicted dates for the Pole shift with exception of June 1st as the latest possible date (link to radio appearance on 5/28/03), and offered no others in replacement. All she will say now is that the pole shift is so imminent, that dates are no longer required. This now means that Nancy Lieder can continue the Zetatalk Cult without ever predicting a date. Her failed predictions of the past eight years are now "irrelevant", in her opinion, and the remaining predicted dates are no longer valid. Nancy's most devoted followers have been jumping ship on a daily basis since the proclaimed "white lie" was given as an excuse for the failed predictions of the "Zetas". As an aside and as predicted, the other "Planet X" proponents are now claiming that Nancy Lieder is a "government disinfo agent", whose job was to caste doubt on the whole Planet X scenario. McCanney, Hazlewood, YowUSA, etc, have all used the Zetatalk failure to augment their own flavor of pseudo-science, conspiracy and financial gain.
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NANCY LEIDER'S ZETATALK - "uh, I don't do math..." ------------------------------------------- Gentile: Ok, I have a question for the Zetas. Lieder: OK Gentile: And I want them to, this particular question, I think, they owe it to the people, so that the people aren't distraugyt and think that , uh, that they're crazy. Lieder: Alright. Gentile: And, I think that the Zetas should answer it as quickly as they possibly can... Lieder: Your question is? Gentile: ..without any possible delay. And if they are, because it sounds like they're very knowledgable, sounds like they're very intelligent.... correct? I mean... Lieder: Are you still fishing for this proof that they exist? Gentile" I... Lieder: Is that what you're aiming for here? Gentile: Nancy, these people want to see it, these people want to see the proof. And I think this is a very easy test to see if these Zetas are who they say they are, because they should rattle this right off. Lieder: OK...so.... Gentile: Because they're quick to answer everything else. Lieder: OK.. And you just posed the question and I'm supposed to answer it... Gentile: No... no,no,no.... I'm going to pose the question. Lieder: Alright, and the question is? Gentilie: The question is, I need to know the answer... to 789 times 456.. ( 789x456=? ) Lieder: Oh... This is Zetatalk. Our translator does not speak Greek. She doesn't speak fast very well either.. nor does she speak Russian. Umm, unfortunately, um, you have asked her to translate math. And, this would take a while for the concept of this to form in her mind. Uh, so, and, and, this has been repeatedly stated. Um, it's a trick, uh, it's a trick that someone who is an autistic could rattle off quickly, but Nancy does not do that without an adding machine or sitting down and running it off on paper. Were we to give her the numbers, she is not relating. In fact, when we give the RA and the DEC (spoken as "Rah" and "deck") in the sky to show where the inbound planet is coming from, uh, she prepares herself. She looks at the graphic and sees where it has been, where is it going, if the "Rah" has increased or decresed, etc. She sees where it has been, uh, what's anticipated, and then, and only then, do we give her numbers which she puts down, 'cause it fits in the schema. She has no schema here, and thus, uh, would not recieve the numbers we would give her accurately. And there, there you would be the, uh, wrong answer. So, if people are looking for proof, we would suggest that they go and look at the website, where there are SOHO images on the 16th and 18th of May, that show planet X. This is not Nancy's photographs, or photographs you see from someplace else. This is your government's photographs, which are now coming nine hours late, or hours late, and poorly doctored when they do arrive. We would sugest you look at the June 3rd, ah, um, or, on the website, where there are documents for June 3rd. There is a solar eclipse picture, that shows planet X right in front of the sun, when someone took a picture of the solar eclipse when it so happens that the moon is passing in front of the sun. Or, um, the sunrise, um, in the same June 3rd grouping of photographs from Australia, which show clearly an object in front of the sun. If you're looking for proof, this has arrived in the year 2003 when we said it would, from the direction we said it would, at the rate we said it would, with the impact on the Earth, with the weather and increasing quakes, uh, and this has absolutely come about. Now, this is a lot better than math games, we would suggest. And this is the end of Zetatalk. ------------------------------- Notice that the math question was posed to the "Zetas", but the reply was that "Nancy doesn't do those kinds of tricks". How many times have the "Zetas", supposedly through Nancy; stated a number - days, weeks, hours, distances - all kinds of numbers? Now, when asked to prove their existence, they can't provide a simple 6 place number to Nancy. Not the math, just the result of the math. Numbers were provided on Nancy's IRC chats many, many times. Instead of supplying a simple number, they send readers to Nancy's website, to view images that are obviously not of an inbound planet, or of "motherships" approaching Earth, but of simple camera artifacts that are easily reproducible and have been seen for hundreds of years. Instead of providing some simple evidence of their existence, they instead opt to lead people to Nancy's own misguided interpretations of what is real. As much as I respect your beliefs John, Nancy's "Zetas" are no more real than the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus. Nancy is the result of years of beleif in extraterrestrial life, catastophism, panspermia, a radical right wing political view, an extreme need for attention, and what happens when it's combined with a mental illness. reposted from: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZetaAstro/message/1154
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People have been affected by Nancy LIEder's LIES!!! June 12, 2003 Boise Families Cited For Illegal Camps Near Dworshak Reservoir By Jon Hanian BOISE - State and federal officials says the leader of a group of up to 12 families from Boise were cited recently for destroying government property and unauthorized construction on public land. The Idaho Department of Lands discovered what appeared to be three different camp sites in Magnus Bay which is near Dworshak Reservoir. The families were said to be building structures, bridges, felling trees and excavating ground over a one to two acre site that includes federal and state land. Officials say the illegal construction of that site took place over several seasons and has damaged habitat. State officials say some in the group said they were building there because of an impending meteor strike on the planet which some referred to as 'Planet X.' Dutch Meier, Chief of Public Affairs for the Walla Walla District of the Army Corps of Engeineers said just the leader of the group was cited, "Several agencies sent enforcement officials in to examine the site and to find the group or group leader. That all happened on the 23rd of May. Reportedly they were cooperative." The Boise leader of the group was cited with destruction of government property and unauthorized construction. He will have to appear before a federal magistrate. That investigation is continuing. http://www2.kbcitv.com/x5154.xml?ParentPag...AdGroupID=x5154
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From: Jonathan Date: May 15th, 2004 Subject: PX the Doomsday that Never Came Hello, So, we have reached it at last: the first of two important PX-related dates, assuming any date related to this event could be called ´important.´ Today, the first anniversary of the failed prediction comes to pass: PX did not appear on May 15th, 2003, and thus the debacle of Nancy Lieder’s White Lie began. Since then, during the last year, a virtual cornucopia of excuses and failed predictions has followed. Interest had waned and fallen off, radio interviews and articles have diminished in both quantity and quality, and it appears that the fourteenth minute of fame is just about to expire. In the midst of this, Nancy Lieder’s faith remains unshakable. PX will come; it *must* come. The Zetas are real; they *must* be real. Nancy must have some importance; *any* importance. The delusions continue, because Nancy Lieder is too afraid and too weak to simply admit that she may be wrong. It takes strength to admit when one is in error. Grant, another of the believers, has admitted error to a limited degree. Nancy, because of the trap she laid for herself with the ´100 percent accuracy´ claim, has no such recourse. That is why, as an example, back on March 4th, the Zetas talked about the movements of Venus, when they were in fact misidentifying Mercury. Thus came the claim of ´jerking Nancy around.´ The inevitable explanation: We are testing the faith of the believers. Convert and you will be saved. It is a powerful, seductive message, and the centerpiece of many successful religions around the world. And, like those other End Times religions, Zetatalk has the same failing: the world stubbornly refuses to end as advertised. Thus, larger and more elaborate conspiracy theories need to be spun to protect the core idea, and when they are big enough or believed in strongly enough, disaster can come, not in the end of the world, but in the self-destruction of the believers. It isn’t a matter of intelligence, who buys into these ideas and who doesn’t. It is some other quality, more elusive, which defines those who will believe the idea versus those who will question it. Thus, the best way of dealing with that is, in my humble opinion, the careful examination of the idea, and its supporting evidence. One thing we, as people of science, must follow is the core rule of science. Always allow for the possibility that you are wrong. If you cannot do this simple thing, then you will start making excuses and fudging facts so that you can “explain or excuse away” anything that does not support your theory. The facts are now bent to support the theory, rather than the theory being bent to conform to the available facts. Planet X is now supposed to have been hovering next to the Sun, from Earth’s perspective, for months. As such, it has defied the behavior of every other object we have ever observed. None of the other planets behave this way. As a matter of fact, they continue to behave as though there were no new massive object anywhere close to them. Likewise, Planet X has supposedly had the ability to decelerate, something that also has never been observed naturally. Planet X has now supposedly stopped the Earth from rotating around the Sun, stopping us roughly at the beginning of this year. New and untested forces, completely at odds with traditional physics and supposedly impossible to test, have halted Earth; have done so in such a way that no person felt a thing, and nothing untoward happened with such an unpredictable braking. Yet, Nancy has not come up with an adequate explanation as to why the other planets continue to move in the constellations they are predicted to normally, nor why the constellations continue to rise and set on time. She is forced to imagine huge conspiracy theories, again and again, to explain that all the clocks worldwide are being secretly manipulated, so that the Sun appears to rise and set on time. She postulates a nine million mile movement, itself undetected, without considering the consequences of such a move; she merely states that she had an out of body experience, and that is all the evidence she nee! ds. Planet X has a second cousin, known as the Earth’s Dark Twin. Amusingly, she talked about the EDT some years back, and then the idea was sort of dropped. It took, of all things, a debunker to find it the original idea and post about it; then suddenly the Zetas were talking about it again. That always struck me as quite convenient, and I have often wondered if that little nugget hadn’t appeared until June, what her response would then have been. The simple fact of the matter is that right now, everything in the skies is accounted for and tracks precisely where it is supposed to be. The instruments designed to do this (sextants, telescopes, and even Sundials) all demonstrate that all the various physical objects we can perceive are precisely where they have been predicted to be, from a year ago, to a decade ago, and in some cases a century or more ago. But that doesn’t stop the believer, fascinatingly enough. Regardless of absolute concrete evidence completely contradicting the veracity of the idea, they continue to trumpet the idea unimpeded. After all, why let reality interfere? Why bother with those pesky laws of physics? Why bother to even *consider* the idea one might be wrong? Why not stay with the warm, comfortable, blanket of irrationality, rather than face reality’s cold, hard facts? So, I understand Nancy’s absolute reluctance to deal with such issues. The idea is too important, and she is far too weak and cowardly to entertain the idea that she may be wrong, or set up any situation in which the idea of PX could be falsified. It is a pity, but it is certainly not unexpected: it is, in fact, the same pattern that cults follow all the time. So, Nancy will continue. Some people, but far fewer than before, will continue to listen, and some, like myself, will continue to point out missteps. She will absolutely deny reality when it doesn’t conform to what the voices in her head tell her what ought to happen. She will continue to obfuscate, lie when it suits her, and forget her misses in favor of her hits. She will and has, in fact, adopted every bit of the behavior she finds so detestable in others. She has met the enemy, and it continues to be her own delusion, weakness, and cowardice. She has not the strength, nor the will, to even entertain the idea of error, and will go to her grave continually persuading herself that she was right. The world will give her all the attention she was due, and even a quarter century from now, will have forgotten the name of one Nancy Lieder. But she need not worry; there will be a new and improved prophecy of disaster just over the horizon then; and the pattern will start anew. I figure I may as well post some of the questions Nancy has failed to address regarding observable phenomena that thoroughly contradict her claims: there are many people who have contributed to these questions over the last few months, but Trebob did a great job of organizing them. =Zetatalk in general: 1-.. What do starburst candy and aliens have to do with each other? 2-.. I’ve found a few pieces of unwrapped candy myself. Isn’t it possible that one piece of starburst being unwrapped was just a random occurrence? 3-.. How are the "zetas" 100% accurate, when most of their predictions have failed? 4-.. Why do you demand that issues be addressed, and then ignore any type of reply when they are? 5-.. Why do you continue to demand an issue be addressed when you have offered no evidence for it? 6-.. Why do you continue to demand an issue be addressed after it has been shown, based on all the available evidence that the issue does not exist? 7-.. Whenever someone points out evidence that you are wrong you repeat the same incorrect statement, change the subject, or throw around insults. How does this help you prove your case? =Planet X: 8-.. Why do pictures, when taken from the same location on Earth, always show "Planet X" in different places in relation to the sun? (http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/rogue/nanc1671.htm ) (http://www.zetatalk3.com/teams/rogue/nancy363.htm) (http://www.zetatalk3.com/teams/rogue/nancy369.htm) 9-.. Why is "Planet X" only visible to cheap web cams? 10-. Why isn’t "Planet X" visible in equipment designed to look for similar objects? 11-. Why can I recreate all your "Planet X" photos using any available light source? (http://home.insightbb.com/~trebob/DCP_0005.JPG) 12-. Whether you trusted the source or not, how is it you were able to mistake a kite for a planet? (http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/rogue/nanc1720.htm) 13-. Why is a picture of a kite one of the best pictures you have to prove the existence of "Planet X"? 14-. You have made the claim that "Planet X" is 4 times the size of Venus "and it is probably at a distance that is not any closer than Venus gets to us in its normal transit" (http://www.zetatalk.com/index/case0402.htm). The diameter of Venus is roughly 12,102 kilometers. Therefore "Planet X" would have to be 4 X 12,102 km in diameter. This would make "Planet X" 48,408 kilometers in diameter. Earth just for comparison is 12,756 km in diameter. You are therefore saying that "Planet X" is roughly the size of Uranus (51,118 km in diameter) or Neptune (49,528 km in diameter). Ground based telescopes are capable of seeing these planets as faint points of light. The maximum distance from Earth to Neptune is 4,686,510,980 km. The maximum distance from the Earth to Venus is 261,039,880 km. Neptune is roughly 17.9 times farther out than Venus. If it is so large and so much closer to us why can’t our ground based telescopes see "Planet X"? 15-. If "Planet X" is as large and close as you say it is, why isn’t it visible to the unaided eye at this time? 16-. How can something that large and close, dust cloud or not, give "an impression of something almost as large as the Moon"? (http://www.zetatalk.com/index/case0402.htm) 17-. Why does light from "Planet X" behave differently than any other light in the observed universe? 18-. What evidence do you have to support the supposed behavior of light from "Planet X"? 19-. Why hasn’t there been even one picture or description of "Planet X" on your site that cannot be explained as a lens artifact, atmospheric effect, obvious fake, or man made object? 20-. In May 2003, on the Coast-to-Coast AM radio program, you made the claim that "Planet X" was "to the left of the sun at dawn and to the left of the sun at sunset". An object to the left of the sun at sunrise will be to the right of the sun at sunset. How is your statement possible? 21-. All of the phenomenon you point to here on Earth are perfectly normal and hardly evidence of another planet. Why have you never been able to offer any concrete evidence of "Planet X"? 22-. Every other observed planet continues to move exactly as predicted. Why hasn’t "Planet X" affected them, as you say it has affected Earth? =Astronomy: 23-. Do you know how to set up astronomy programs for your latitude, longitude, time zone, and altitude above sea level? 24-. These programs when configured properly show that everything in the night sky is exactly where it should be, even when working with a database 6 or more years old. Why are all the stars, constellations, and planets in the right place if Earth isn’t moving along normally in its orbit? 25-. As we moved into the months of March and April in 2004, you made the claim that the Sun was rising higher in the sky. This is normal for the Northern Hemisphere at that time of year. How does this prove that Earth is not moving in its normal orbit? 26-. As the months started getting colder in 2003, you made the claim that the Sun was rising lower in the sky. Again, this is perfectly normal for winter in the Northern Hemisphere. How does this prove that Earth is not moving in its normal orbit? 27-. As we head towards autumn 2004 in the Northern Hemisphere, the Sun starts rising lower in the sky and the weather starts getting colder. This is once again a normal occurrence. Will you still make the claim that this is because of the influence of "Planet X"? 28-. If the Earth has been moved out of its normal orbit why do the go-to drives on telescopes continue to function and track perfectly? 29-. How can every amateur and professional astronomer be involved in a massive worldwide cover up without someone coming forward? 30-. How many amateur astronomers do you think there are? 31-. You have made the claim that SOHO pictures have been coming from archives lately. Why does the face of the sun when viewed with a telescope and solar filter match up perfectly with the newest MDI images from the SOHO website? 32-. You have claimed that NASA will post doctored SOHO images to show Venus passing across the face of the sun on June 8, 2004. This event will be visible to anyone with a telescope and the proper filters or viewing equipment, except for those living in the western United States, western Canada, Hawaii, Antarctica and the tip of South America (http://www.space.com/images/040206_venus_transit_map_02.gif). Why would NASA need to use doctored SOHO images for this event? 33-. How can different Space Agencies predict and plot spacecraft courses years in advance, within a few kilometers, without the "repulsion force" even figuring into their calculations? 34-. How would the skies behave differently without the "repulsion force"? 35-. Sir Isaac Newton’s laws of motion and universal law of gravitation explain why the Moon does not crash into Earth, why the planets do not crash into the Sun, and so on. Why is the "repulsion force" necessary in any of these models? =Geology: 36-. You claim that you see "patterns" in the near real time data taken from the USGS website (http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/heli2.shtml). It says at the top of that page "this data updates automatically every 30 minutes". The data could be altered in that amount of time. You have also made the claim that archived data from the USGS is doctored to keep it looking normal. Why would the archived data be changed and not the near real time data? 37-. Why are you the only one who can see these "patterns" in earthquake data? 38-. How can you be certain that data from the USGS Live Internet Seismic Server has not been altered before it gets posted, as you claim has been done with pictures from SOHO? 39-. What year(s) are you using as your baseline to point out an increase in earthquake activity? 40-. You have recently claimed making predictions about EQ data. What patterns would have convinced you that you were incorrect? =Earth’s Dark Twin: 41-. Why isn’t Earth’s Dark Twin visible now? 42-. If Earth has actually halted in its orbit, where do the Zetas say EDT should appear? 43-. Why don’t the other planets have dark twins? 44-. Why did you forget to mention EDT for months, until a debunker brought up an old post? 45-. And, finally: Is there any evidence you can imagine, of any kind whatsoever, that would allow you to come to the conclusion that you and the Zetans are mistaken? At any rate, as in the past, Nancy’s answers to these observations will no doubt continue to be a resounding silence; speaking more eloquently than she or I could. At one point, Nancy wrote: "The Earth’s dark twin, approaching from behind her, has scant months to reach her and create a crisis. Earth stopping on Dec 25 allows for a full half orbit by this twin by June 25, 2004, but the crisis will occur sooner and for many reasons." Well, as of today, there are only 24 more days left until the Venus Transit on June 8th; an astronomical event that could *not* be taking place unless everything were moving exactly as predicted, from predictions over a century old; an astronomical event that Nancy implied would fail to occur altogether or be long after the supposed shifting of the poles. I am not certain what Nancy’s explanations will be; she has claimed in advance that past pictures will be used (even though none exist) and that SOHO pictures will be faked, even though SOHO is not necessary to view this event. I think the crisis she foretold is happening right now, but not for reality, nor the debunkers. The crisis that is happening involves the faith of the few believers Nancy has left. And, thus, here we are. Reality has once again spoken, just as it did a year ago, and, alas, it seems to continually contradict Nancy and the Zetans at every turn. I shall continue to wonder at how much one can deny reality in spite of truly overwhelming evidence, but then I remind myself that there are, indeed, a few Flat Earthers still left, as well. I should wonder at why Nancy seems to so carefully, and so proudly, follow in such deluded footsteps. PX: The Religion. It really is all that is left to the idea. Jonathan -It doesn't matter what I believe. What matters is what I can prove- From: Jonathan Date: May 16th, 2004 Subject: RE: Moon out of Place About that: I saw Nancy and other's observations claiming this; so I took the initative back in March and actually emailed the Laser Ranging Project at the Center for Space Research at McDonald Observatory at the Univ. of Texas; specifically asking about the Moon being out of place or having ´fallen on its side´. These people fire a laser at the Moon, bouncing the laser off a mirror that was set up by the astronauts, to very carefully measure the speed of light, and the distances involved. About a week after I wrote, I got this response: --------------------- If anyone feels that the moon has "fallen on its side", he or she needs to ask him or herself why such an event has not been front page news. It would be pretty hard to cover up, and would be the story of the century or millenium! Perhaps this person is seeing the crescent moon at sunrise or sunset and is interpreting this as the moon being on its side. The person could be shown a diagram of the orbit of the moon with regard to the earth and the sun. This could be found in an introductory astronomy text. I am not sure what recent publications on lunar laser ranging I could point you to. Since this is a long term project, there are relatively few publications in sources a layman would be able to find. The data itself may be available, but is basically the round-trip time of flight to the moon and the time at which the laser fired. This would be hard to use without a knowledge of the lunar ephemerides (i.e., predictions of position). I can assure you that we have been using the same long-term ephemerides for the last 10-20 years and have yet to see valid round trip travel times that differ from those expected by more than 20-30 nanoseconds (about 20-30 feet round trip)! We also have pointing predictions from the same ephemeris that are good to 1/2000th the distance across the lunar disk. If the moon were to lay on its side we would definitely have pointing problems (and probably range problems) that would preclude our obtaining data! We range the moon for 15 - 45 minutes at a time, during which time we try to range to 1-4 of the reflectors. We would like to range each of the reflectors 2-3 times a day during first and third quarters. That never happens. We typically get 5 or so successful sessions each month with a mix of reflectors. Personnel schedules, weather, other priorities and the technical difficulties of ranging the moon prevent taking all the data we would like to have. One of the "other priorities" is ranging to about 20-25 artificial satellites. ----------------------- So it *appears* that the Moon is where it ought to be, as any deviation could be measured in *meters.*. I am not certain what Nancy is seeing; but as I have posted to her many times before; I´d join the local amateur astronomers for a good, hard look.  Jonathan -It doesn't matter what I believe. What matters is what I can prove.-
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Questions Nancy Lieder won't answer!!!!!!! http://zetatruth.home.dyndns.org/Since 1995 Nancy has led a campaign of paranoia and disinformation in an effort to convince the general public that a rogue planet will sweep past the earth causing devastation on a level previously unheard of to modern man. She has never in the years since offered any verifiable evidence to back up her claims. She has given one failed prediction after another. She has continuously shown that she lacks even the most basic understanding in the fields of astronomy, geology, physics, meteorology, modern technology, and many other fields as well. Despite all this she claims to have a perfect record for predictions, engages in scientific discussions, and continues to post what she believes is proof of her claims. She claims that this information is being channeled to her by aliens from zeta reticuli. Her sign that aliens were relaying this information to her was finding an unwrapped starburst in her candy box at the movies. The date Nancy gave for the passage of her mystery planet was May 15, 2003. This date was heavily supported by her and the "zetas". That date has come and gone without incident. Even now Nancy offers no proof of her claims and no evidence for "planet x". Nancy seems to have one follower left. Posting under the name Grant on the GLP forums, he seems to be the only other person who believes in Nancy's story. Having recently begun to post on the Bad Astronomy Bulletin boards, he to offers no proof for his claims and no proof for "planet x".
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Not sure the validity of this but it was posted on the net after her FAILED prediction!!! PLANET X LAWSUIT? E-mail Alleges Legal Action Being Taken Against Zeta Talk's Leider [ Editor's Note: While this story comes to us second-hand, it was posted as being of interest. Since we're all still alive, much to the dismay of the Zeta Talk folks, we can write this one off as yet another hoax...no big surprise there. The following e-mail appears un-edited...] Subject: Re: [Cataclysms] Planet X Class Action Lawsuit... In a message dated 5/29/2003 9:40:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lunanic111@yahoo.com writes: It has been reported on Yahoo that Nancy Lieder of http://www.zetatalk.com and other un-named respondants are going to be the subject of a Class Action Law Suit over the whole Planet X hoax. The crux of the issue is the ppl who made "Life Altering Decisions" over the whole Planet X scare. When asked for comment, the Zetas, as they call themselves, had no comment. Planet X was suppose to pass by our planet may 15th, 2003, and cause, according to some radio talk show hosts, "catastrophic and devestating earth changes." When the planet didn't pass at that date, then Nancy Lieder changed her date to June 1st, 2003. The State of Idaho is looking into fraudulant practices of Nancy Lieder's group, which include tax evasion, and other false and misleading claims in which monies were paid. Nancy Lieder is also under investagion by WIASA: The Web Investigations and Security Agency, as well as being investigated by other agencies within the InterGOV International. If you have been scammed by Nancy Lieder, and/or other parties, then contact these web sites: http://www.scamwatch.com/forms/scam_report.htmlOr https://wiasa.org/forms/crime_report.htmOr contact your local law enforcement agency: Report compiled by: Luke Nichols Princeton, WV USA
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This was posted by Jonathan on the old GLP a year after Nancy LIEder's FAILED prediction!!!!!!
PX: The First Anniversary of a Doomsday
Hello,
So, we have reached it at last: the first of two important PX-related dates, assuming any date related to this event could be called ´important.´ Today, the first anniversary of the failed prediction comes to pass: PX did not appear on May 15th, 2003, and thus the debacle of Nancy Lieder’s White Lie began.
Since then, during the last year, a virtual cornucopia of excuses and failed predictions has followed. Interest had waned and fallen off, radio interviews and articles have diminished in both quantity and quality, and it appears that the fourteenth minute of fame is just about to expire.
In the midst of this, Nancy Lieder’s faith remains unshakable. PX will come; it *must* come. The Zetas are real; they *must* be real. Nancy must have some importance; *any* importance. The delusions continue, because Nancy Lieder is too afraid and too weak to simply admit that she may be wrong.
It takes strength to admit when one is in error. Grant, another of the believers, has admitted error to a limited degree. Nancy, because of the trap she laid for herself with the ´100 percent accuracy´ claim, has no such recourse. That is why, as an example, back on March 4th, the Zetas talked about the movements of Venus, when they were in fact misidentifying Mercury. Thus came the claim of ´jerking Nancy around.´ The inevitable explanation: We are testing the faith of the believers. Convert and you will be saved.
It is a powerful, seductive message, and the centerpiece of many successful religions around the world. And, like those other End Times religions, Zetatalk has the same failing: the world stubbornly refuses to end as advertised. Thus, larger and more elaborate conspiracy theories need to be spun to protect the core idea, and when they are big enough or believed in strongly enough, disaster can come, not in the end of the world, but in the self-destruction of the believers.
It isn’t a matter of intelligence, who buys into these ideas and who doesn’t. It is some other quality, more elusive, which defines those who will believe the idea versus those who will question it. Thus, the best way of dealing with that is, in my humble opinion, the careful examination of the idea, and its supporting evidence.
One thing we, as people of science, must follow is the core rule of science. Always allow for the possibility that you are wrong. If you cannot do this simple thing, then you will start making excuses and fudging facts so that you can “explain or excuse away” anything that does not support your theory. The facts are now bent to support the theory, rather than the theory being bent to conform to the available facts.
Planet X is now supposed to have been hovering next to the Sun, from Earth’s perspective, for months. As such, it has defied the behavior of every other object we have ever observed. None of the other planets behave this way. As a matter of fact, they continue to behave as though there were no new massive object anywhere close to them. Likewise, Planet X has supposedly had the ability to decelerate, something that also has never been observed naturally.
Planet X has now supposedly stopped the Earth from rotating around the Sun, stopping us roughly at the beginning of this year. New and untested forces, completely at odds with traditional physics and supposedly impossible to test, have halted Earth; have done so in such a way that no person felt a thing, and nothing untoward happened with such an unpredictable braking. Yet, Nancy has not come up with an adequate explanation as to why the other planets continue to move in the constellations they are predicted to normally, nor why the constellations continue to rise and set on time. She is forced to imagine huge conspiracy theories, again and again, to explain that all the clocks worldwide are being secretly manipulated, so that the Sun appears to rise and set on time. She postulates a nine million mile movement, itself undetected, without considering the consequences of such a move; she merely states that she had an out of body experience, and that is all the evidence she needs.
Planet X has a second cousin, known as the Earth’s Dark Twin. Amusingly, she talked about the EDT some years back, and then the idea was sort of dropped. It took, of all things, a debunker to find it the original idea and post about it; then suddenly the Zetas were talking about it again. That always struck me as quite convenient, and I have often wondered if that little nugget hadn’t appeared until June, what her response would then have been.
The simple fact of the matter is that right now, everything in the skies is accounted for and tracks precisely where it is supposed to be. The instruments designed to do this (sextants, telescopes, and even Sundials) all demonstrate that all the various physical objects we can perceive are precisely where they have been predicted to be, from a year ago, to a decade ago, and in some cases a century or more ago.
But that doesn’t stop the believer, fascinatingly enough. Regardless of absolute concrete evidence completely contradicting the veracity of the idea, they continue to trumpet the idea unimpeded. After all, why let reality interfere? Why bother with those pesky laws of physics? Why bother to even *consider* the idea one might be wrong? Why not stay with the warm, comfortable, blanket of irrationality, rather than face reality’s cold, hard facts?
So, I understand Nancy’s absolute reluctance to deal with such issues. The idea is too important, and she is far too weak and cowardly to entertain the idea that she may be wrong, or set up any situation in which the idea of PX could be falsified. It is a pity, but it is certainly not unexpected: it is, in fact, the same pattern that cults follow all the time.
So, Nancy will continue. Some people, but far fewer than before, will continue to listen, and some, like myself, will continue to point out missteps. She will absolutely deny reality when it doesn’t conform to what the voices in her head tell her what ought to happen. She will continue to obfuscate, lie when it suits her, and forget her misses in favor of her hits. She will and has, in fact, adopted every bit of the behavior she finds so detestable in others. She has met the enemy, and it continues to be her own delusion, weakness, and cowardice. She has not the strength, nor the will, to even entertain the idea of error, and will go to her grave continually persuading herself that she was right.
The world will give her all the attention she was due, and even a quarter century from now, will have forgotten the name of one Nancy Lieder. But she need not worry; there will be a new and improved prophecy of disaster just over the horizon then; and the pattern will start anew.
I figure I may as well post some of the questions Nancy has failed to address regarding observable phenomena that thoroughly contradict her claims: there are many people who have contributed to these questions over the last few months, but Trebob did a great job of organizing them.
=Zetatalk in general:
1-.. What do starburst candy and aliens have to do with each other?
2-.. I’ve found a few pieces of unwrapped candy myself. Isn’t it possible that one piece of starburst being unwrapped was just a random occurrence?
3-.. How are the "zetas" 100% accurate, when most of their predictions have failed?
4-.. Why do you demand that issues be addressed, and then ignore any type of reply when they are?
5-.. Why do you continue to demand an issue be addressed when you have offered no evidence for it?
6-.. Why do you continue to demand an issue be addressed after it has been shown, based on all the available evidence that the issue does not exist?
7-.. Whenever someone points out evidence that you are wrong you repeat the same incorrect statement, change the subject, or throw around insults. How does this help you prove your case?
=Planet X:
8-.. Why do pictures, when taken from the same location on Earth, always show "Planet X" in different places in relation to the sun?
(http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/rogue/nanc1671.htm )
(http://www.zetatalk3.com/teams/rogue/nancy363.htm)
(http://www.zetatalk3.com/teams/rogue/nancy369.htm)
9-.. Why is "Planet X" only visible to cheap web cams?
10-. Why isn’t "Planet X" visible in equipment designed to look for similar objects?
11-. Why can I recreate all your "Planet X" photos using any available light source?
(http://home.insightbb.com/~trebob/DCP_0005.JPG)
12-. Whether you trusted the source or not, how is it you were able to mistake a kite for a planet?
(http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/rogue/nanc1720.htm)
13-. Why is a picture of a kite one of the best pictures you have to prove the existence of "Planet X"?
14-. You have made the claim that "Planet X" is 4 times the size of Venus "and it is probably at a distance that is not any closer than Venus gets to us in its normal transit" (http://www.zetatalk.com/index/case0402.htm). The diameter of Venus is roughly 12,102 kilometers. Therefore "Planet X" would have to be 4 X 12,102 km in diameter. This would make "Planet X" 48,408 kilometers in diameter. Earth just for comparison is 12,756 km in diameter. You are therefore saying that "Planet X" is roughly the size of Uranus (51,118 km in diameter) or Neptune (49,528 km in diameter). Ground based telescopes are capable of seeing these planets as faint points of light. The maximum distance from Earth to Neptune is 4,686,510,980 km. The maximum distance from the Earth to Venus is 261,039,880 km. Neptune is roughly 17.9 times farther out than Venus. If it is so large and so much closer to us why can’t our ground based telescopes see "Planet X"?
15-. If "Planet X" is as large and close as you say it is, why isn’t it visible to the unaided eye at this time?
16-. How can something that large and close, dust cloud or not, give "an impression of something almost as large as the Moon"? (http://www.zetatalk.com/index/case0402.htm)
17-. Why does light from "Planet X" behave differently than any other light in the observed universe?
18-. What evidence do you have to support the supposed behavior of light from "Planet X"?
19-. Why hasn’t there been even one picture or description of "Planet X" on your site that cannot be explained as a lens artifact, atmospheric effect, obvious fake, or man made object?
20-. In May 2003, on the Coast-to-Coast AM radio program, you made the claim that "Planet X" was "to the left of the sun at dawn and to the left of the sun at sunset". An object to the left of the sun at sunrise will be to the right of the sun at sunset. How is your statement possible?
21-. All of the phenomenon you point to here on Earth are perfectly normal and hardly evidence of another planet. Why have you never been able to offer any concrete evidence of "Planet X"?
22-. Every other observed planet continues to move exactly as predicted. Why hasn’t "Planet X" affected them, as you say it has affected Earth?
=Astronomy:
23-. Do you know how to set up astronomy programs for your latitude, longitude, time zone, and altitude above sea level?
24-. These programs when configured properly show that everything in the night sky is exactly where it should be, even when working with a database 6 or more years old. Why are all the stars, constellations, and planets in the right place if Earth isn’t moving along normally in its orbit?
25-. As we moved into the months of March and April in 2004, you made the claim that the Sun was rising higher in the sky. This is normal for the Northern Hemisphere at that time of year. How does this prove that Earth is not moving in its normal orbit?
26-. As the months started getting colder in 2003, you made the claim that the Sun was rising lower in the sky. Again, this is perfectly normal for winter in the Northern Hemisphere. How does this prove that Earth is not moving in its normal orbit?
27-. As we head towards autumn 2004 in the Northern Hemisphere, the Sun starts rising lower in the sky and the weather starts getting colder. This is once again a normal occurrence. Will you still make the claim that this is because of the influence of "Planet X"?
28-. If the Earth has been moved out of its normal orbit why do the go-to drives on telescopes continue to function and track perfectly?
29-. How can every amateur and professional astronomer be involved in a massive worldwide cover up without someone coming forward?
30-. How many amateur astronomers do you think there are?
31-. You have made the claim that SOHO pictures have been coming from archives lately. Why does the face of the sun when viewed with a telescope and solar filter match up perfectly with the newest MDI images from the SOHO website?
32-. You have claimed that NASA will post doctored SOHO images to show Venus passing across the face of the sun on June 8, 2004. This event will be visible to anyone with a telescope and the proper filters or viewing equipment, except for those living in the western United States, western Canada, Hawaii, Antarctica and the tip of South America (http://www.space.com/images/040206_venus_transit_map_02.gif). Why would NASA need to use doctored SOHO images for this event?
33-. How can different Space Agencies predict and plot spacecraft courses years in advance, within a few kilometers, without the "repulsion force" even figuring into their calculations?
34-. How would the skies behave differently without the "repulsion force"?
35-. Sir Isaac Newton’s laws of motion and universal law of gravitation explain why the Moon does not crash into Earth, why the planets do not crash into the Sun, and so on. Why is the "repulsion force" necessary in any of these models?
=Geology:
36-. You claim that you see "patterns" in the near real time data taken from the USGS website (http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/heli2.shtml). It says at the top of that page "this data updates automatically every 30 minutes". The data could be altered in that amount of time. You have also made the claim that archived data from the USGS is doctored to keep it looking normal. Why would the archived data be changed and not the near real time data?
37-. Why are you the only one who can see these "patterns" in earthquake data?
38-. How can you be certain that data from the USGS Live Internet Seismic Server has not been altered before it gets posted, as you claim has been done with pictures from SOHO?
39-. What year(s) are you using as your baseline to point out an increase in earthquake activity?
40-. You have recently claimed making predictions about EQ data. What patterns would have convinced you that you were incorrect?
=Earth’s Dark Twin:
41-. Why isn’t Earth’s Dark Twin visible now?
42-. If Earth has actually halted in its orbit, where do the Zetas say EDT should appear?
43-. Why don’t the other planets have dark twins?
44-. Why did you forget to mention EDT for months, until a debunker brought up an old post?
45-. And, finally: Is there any evidence you can imagine, of any kind whatsoever, that would allow you to come to the conclusion that you and the Zetans are mistaken?
At any rate, as in the past, Nancy’s answers to these observations will no doubt continue to be a resounding silence; speaking more eloquently than she or I could.
At one point, Nancy wrote: "The Earth’s dark twin, approaching from behind her, has scant months to reach her and create a crisis. Earth stopping on Dec 25 allows for a full half orbit by this twin by June 25, 2004, but the crisis will occur sooner and for many reasons."
Well, as of today, there are only 24 more days left until the Venus Transit on June 8th; an astronomical event that could *not* be taking place unless everything were moving exactly as predicted, from predictions over a century old; an astronomical event that Nancy implied would fail to occur altogether or be long after the supposed shifting of the poles. I am not certain what Nancy’s explanations will be; she has claimed in advance that past pictures will be used (even though none exist) and that SOHO pictures will be faked, even though SOHO is not necessary to view this event. I think the crisis she foretold is happening right now, but not for reality, nor the debunkers. The crisis that is happening involves the faith of the few believers Nancy has left.
And, thus, here we are. Reality has once again spoken, just as it did a year ago, and, alas, it seems to continually contradict Nancy and the Zetans at every turn. I shall continue to wonder at how much one can deny reality in spite of truly overwhelming evidence, but then I remind myself that there are, indeed, a few Flat Earthers still left, as well. I should wonder at why Nancy seems to so carefully, and so proudly, follow in such deluded footsteps.
PX: The Religion. It really is all that is left to the idea.
Jonathan
-It doesn´t matter what I believe. What matters is what I can prove-
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12.3 Trillion Dollars - February 4th, 2010