Latest Shouts In The Shoutbox -- View The Shoutbox

Skull found at Sanders Mound in Texas



Thanx Tex, that sure does look very similar to some of the south american skulls.

But not as pronounced as the Eyptian and the Summerian.

Do you know approximately what year or century this person lived?

Cool, I love this kind of stuff!

I love this skulls like this have been a passion for me. Wonderful contributions.

Here’s a take on Kiya.

There is a story that Drunvalo Melchizedek tells it fits into both the timeline and the elongated skulls. Can’t find any links so forgive me if I miss some parts it’s late.
Originally there were a Lemurian couple Ay and Tiya (not Kiya, I’ll suggest that was her name, there is a later Kiya, however I think who you are looking for is Tiya probably some historic confusion) who became physically immortal beings prior to the sinking of that continent. Reputedly they started they Naacal Mystery School teaching ascension to others. They did a whole lot of other stuff that’s not important here for the sake of this story, in Atlantis.

This is where they come in to the Egyptian pantheon. As the Egyptians began to loose their consciousness of one God (remember as a stair step evolutionary kind of place they were falling asleep again). They needed to have a Christ consciousness being walk the earth to put the real thing back into the Akashic record. So Ay and Tiya were enlisted to create a child, they did this with some type of high level trans dimensional sex. Akhunaton was their child. He was only given about 17 ½ years to make his imprint around 1355 B.C. Everyone hated him. He disrupted all religions telling everyone that priests were not necessary and that God was within them. My kind of guy. He also was a total pacifist and told all the armies to stop fighting, he ordered them to stay inside their borders and only respond if directly attacked. The People hated him, however it did not matter because he got all this into the Akashic record. he and his followers were reputedly a members of the Tat brotherhood who later migrated to the Masada and became the Essenes.

I'll be back with some other stuff later~just a late night story for now ;-)

This bust was labled Queen Tiya, the Elder Lady

Akhenaten is principally famous for his religious reforms, where the polytheism of Egypt was to be supplanted by monotheism centered around Aten, the god of the solar disc. This was possibly a move to lessen the political power of the Priests. Now the Pharaoh, not the priesthood, was the sole link between the people and Aten which effectively ended the power of the various temples.

Akhenaten built a temple to his god Aten immediately outside the east gate of the temple of Amun at Karnak, but clearly the coexistence of the two cults could not last. He therefore proscribed the cult of Amun, closed the god's temples, took over the revenues. He then sent his officials around to destroy Amun's statues and to desecrate the worship sites. These actions were so contrary to the traditional that opposition arose against him. The estates of the great temples of Thebes, Memphis and Heliopolis reverted to the throne. Corruption grew out of the mismanagement of such large levies.

It was said that one day Akhenaten had a vision wherein he saw a sun disc between two mountains. He felt that God was guiding him to make change. He was shown the God, Aten, as the Sun Disk - the Light. He felt guided by Aten to build a city between the two mountains.

In the sixth year of his reign Akhenaten rejected the Gods of Thebes. They were never part of his childhood anyway since he had been shunned as a child. Akhenaten had declared for the first time in recorded that there was only one God - the concept of monotheism. Overnight he turned 2,000 years of Egyptian religious upside down...

(This is a really good site if you are interested in Akhenaten, Nefertiti, their children, and lots of pics.)

http://www.crystalinks.com/akhenaten.html

BJ

I think that I read something like that somewhere Prue. There were two or three old books that I had read that had similar stories in them. I can't remember the names oft he books though.

There is a Tiya mentioned in some of the texts and she was one of Ramesses II sisters. If I remember correctly, Ramesses II had red hair, which may be another reason why members of the royal families chose to shave their heads and wear wigs.

Tiya was definitely a Queen and the daughter of Yuya and Tjuyu. Tjuyu, her mother was a descendent of Ahmose Nefertari and her father Yuya, may have been of Asiatic descent according to one account.

They had another daughter named Tiy who was Queen of Amenhotep III. Tiy was the mother of Akhenaton. Yuya and Tjuyu also had two sons who were named Anen and Ay.

Yuya and Tjuyu were also the Maternal Great Grandparents of Ankhesenamun.

http://www.angelfire.com/ne2/TiaDuat/genealogy.html

There is of course an Ay and Tiya mentioned by Melchizedek.

http://www.xlibris.de/magickriver/FOL.htm

Thanx for the image of the Skull Tex and Pupp. It is definitely an unusual specimin with a significantly larger brain capacity, probably around the 2000 cc range. Very similar to a Neanderthal skull and definitely human. The skull has all the right bones and sutures. It is very similar to Akhenaten's skull and doesn't show any evidence of deformation. The one difference that I just noticed with Akhenaten's skull is that the occipital bone, which is supposed to be on the back of the head is on the bottom. Very peculiar.

Actually... Now that I can see both skulls, both their occipital bones are not where they're supposed to be so they both appear to be very close in comparison.


Akhenaten's skull


I finally found a good example of a cradle-board skull that came from China BTW.

I was looking for a Neanderthal skull for comparison and came up with this interesting bit of information.

Neanderthal fraud discovered by Dr. Jack Cuozzo La Quina

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/lemoustier.html

One of my sister's was working on the hypothesis that Neanderthals didn't die out but somehow managed to survive, due to their above normal brain capacity and blend in.

This is a comparison of a normal human child's skull to that of a Neanderthal child's skull:

http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/staff/zolli/CAP/Pi...der+sapiens.jpg

Oh and it seems that Neanderthals had canibalistic tendencies. Either that or somebody else ate them.

Photographs for Moula Neanderthal Cannibalism Story
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/release...eandphotos.html




Here is a comparison of a normal human skull and a Neanderthal skull. Note the longer braincase and the tilt of the occipital bone. It would be more likely that the Egyptian royal clan were somehow related to the Neanderthals than normal humans.

http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/...d_sap_comp.html

Seralia thanks for posting Akhenaton's skull for comparison; I think the similarity is remarkable. Well actually not that remarkable as Cyclone Covey has shown linguistic simitlarities in the Atakapan language of the Texas Gulf coast and Ancient Egyptian. The Atakapans were best represented by the abnormaly large and powerful Karankawas who rescued Cabeza De Vaca's shipwrecked crew on the Texas coast in the 1520's. These are people you might want to look at in relation to Giants in America although they are not the red haired giants of Nevada who were exterminatied by the Paiutes around 800 AD. These people, the Karankawas were well over six feet tall and their long bows could not be drawn by the average European. An early Texas account tells of a Karankawa shooting an arrow completely through a black bear at 600 yards and that story was by no means unique. The Karankawas were finally exterminated in the 1840's because of their practice of stealing children and eating them. This was not a practice limited to the Karankawas and the Tonkawas who were infamous for their non ritual cannibalism aided the destruction of the Comanches who shunned any form of cannibalism and were waging a genocidal war against the Tonkawa.

Now recently Federico Solorzano presented a fragment of Homo Erectus skull and jaw found at Lake Chapala, Mexico to a conference of anthropologists in September. This is not the first primitive skull to be found in the Americas and two others from Brazil were labeled hoaxes back in the Monte Verde debates. They are not hoaxes in my opinion and there are several sites such as the El Horno site in Mexico which produced 250,000 year old dates which ruined the careers of three people. These sites are now being reexaminined. Many such as the rejected Calico site are in the Mojave Desert of California. I will go into greater depth on these as this discussion progresses. We must start with a blank slate now because it has long been obvious that the present paradigm is intentionally false. I'm sorry I could not retrieve the Adena tablet but it had sunk too far back in the threads to access. I do have an Adena calender image I will send PuPP to post here that is even more impressive.

Mayslick Kentucky Calendar Stone



Is Drumvalo Melchisedek the author of Keys to Enoch? And do you recommend that book as containing valid information?

This almost reads like a description of the british Royal Family.

Neanderthals Reconstructed - Not Human Ancestors!

LONDON August 1, 2001 (Reuters) - Computer graphics of Neanderthals based on ancient fossils show they were very different from early humans and did not mix with them, Swiss scientists said Wednesday.

The virtual reality images of reconstructed Neanderthal skulls have distinctive features established very early in childhood which did not develop gradually through life, suggesting they coexisted but did not breed with each other.

"This is a strong argument for early separation on the species level, which means they had isolated populations. There might have been some accidental inbreeding but certainly not a big exchange of genes,'' said Christoph Zollikofer, a neurobiologist at the University of Zurich.

Zollikofer and Marcia Ponce de Leon, computer scientist and anthropologist at the university, created virtual reality models of Neanderthal skulls from 16 fossils of the creatures who lived in Europe, North Africa and Asia between 125,000 and 40,000 years ago.

They wanted to compare their development from childhood to that of early and modern humans.

They found that the distinctive features of the Neanderthal skull and face were there by the age of two years.

"We wanted to find out the basic development in Neanderthals in comparison to humans. It was a surprise to find how homogeneous these species behaved during development,'' Zollikofer added in a telephone interview.

The research, reported in the science journal Nature, supports earlier genetic evidence showing Neanderthals are too distant genetically to have been an ancestor of modern humans.

"We think that together with the genetic data ... it is quite reasonable to think that these are really two different species separated at least half a million years ago,'' said Zollikofer.

To construct the virtual reality images the scientists used computer tomography of the Neanderthal fossils to get three dimensional data and customized computer software to create the images.

"We now have a dynamic approach to the morphology (the study of forms). We can say something about how an extinct species developed from birth to adulthood,'' Zollikofer said.

Neanderthals differ from anatomically modern Homo sapiens in a suite of cranial features:

1. A low but elongated and broadened braincase

2. Characteristic cranial suprastructures such as a supraorbital torus, a small mastoid process, a large juxtamastoid eminence, and a suprainiac fossa

3. A large face with rounded orbits, an wide nasal aperture, an inflated paranasal region and an anteroposteriorly slanting infraorbital region

4. A mandible with a receding chin region and a retromolar space in adult individuals

On The Web:
Computer-assisted Paleoanthropology at the University of Zurich - http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/staff/zolli/CAP/Main_face.htm

http://home.earthlink.net/~exonews/xtra/neanderthals.htm

PuPP the Adena calender stone is in your mail. When it is posted be sure to note the similarity to the ivory head of a woman and the Venus of Wilendorf figurines from the European Paleolithic.

They make Neanderthal appear to be as primative as possible but in reality, they were quite advanced.

Feature Article - September 1997
by Do-While Jones

The Neanderthal Problem

http://www.ridgenet.net/~do_while/sage/v1i12f.htm


Oh would you look at this. Red hair and Neanderthal charictoristics in the Egyptian Royal family.

Redheads 'are neanderthal'

Monday April 16, 2001
The Times, London

RED hair may be the genetic legacy of Neanderthals, scientists believe. Researchers at the John Radcliffe Institute of Molecular Medicine in Oxford say that the so-called "ginger gene" which gives people red hair, fair skin and freckles could be up to 100,000 years old.

They claim that their discovery points to the gene having originated in Neanderthal man who lived in Europe for 200,000 years before Homo sapien settlers, the ancestors of modern man, arrived from Africa about 40,000 years ago.

Rosalind Harding, the research team leader, said: "The gene is certainly older than 50,000 years and it could be as old as 100,000 years.

"An explanation is that it comes from Neanderthals." It is estimated that at least 10 percent of Scots have red hair and a further 40 per cent carry the gene responsible, which could account for their once fearsome reputation as fighters.

Neanderthals have been characterised as migrant hunters and violent cannibals who probably ate most of their meat raw. They were taller and stockier than Homo sapiens, but with shorter limbs, bigger faces and noses, receding chins and low foreheads.

The two species overlapped for a period of time and the Oxford research appears to suggests that they must have successfully interbred for the "ginger gene" to survive. Neanderthals became extinct about 28,000 years ago, the last dying out in southern Spain and southwest France.

http://www.n2.net/prey/bigfoot/hominids/redheads.htm

I'll drink to that.

Sureeeeeeeeeee they didn't interbreed.

N.Y. Times April 25, 1999

Discovery Suggests Humans Are a Bit Neanderthal

By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD

Neanderthals and modern humans not only coexisted for thousands of years long ago, as anthropologists have established, but now their little secret is out: they also cohabited.

At least that is the interpretation being made by paleontologists who have examined the 24,500-year-old skeleton of a young boy discovered recently in a shallow grave in Portugal. Bred in the boy's bones seemed to be a genetic heritage part Neanderthal, part early modern Homo sapiens. He was a hybrid, they concluded, and the first strong physical evidence of interbreeding between the groups in Europe.

"This skeleton demonstrates that early modern humans and Neanderthals are not all that different," said Dr. Erik Trinkaus, a paleoanthropologist at Washington University in St. Louis. "They intermixed, interbred and produced offspring."

Although some scientists disputed the interpretation, other scientists who study human origins said in interviews last week that the findings were intriguing, probably correct and certain to provoke debate and challenges to conventional thinking about the place of Neanderthals in human evolution.

Neanderthals and modern humans presumably were more alike than different, not a separate species or even subspecies, but two groups who viewed each other as appropriate mates.

Recent DNA research had appeared to show that the two people were unrelated and had not interbred. Neanderthals lived in Europe and western Asia from 300,000 years ago until the last of them disappeared on the Iberian peninsula about 28,000 years ago. In the prevailing theory today, modern humans arose in Africa less than 200,000 years ago and appeared in great numbers in Europe, starting about 40,000 years ago.

The new discovery could, at long last, resolve the question of what happened to the Neanderthals, the stereotypical stocky, heavy-browed "cave men." They may have merged with modern humans, called Cro-Magnons, who appear to have arrived in Europe with a superior tool culture. In that case, some Neanderthal genes survive in most Europeans and people of European descent.

The skeleton of the boy, buried with strings of marine shells and painted with red ocher, was uncovered in December by Portuguese archeologists led by Dr. Joo Zilhao, director of the Institute of Archeology in Lisbon. The discovery was made in the Lapedo Valley near Leiria, 90 miles north of Lisbon.

Realizing the potential significance, Dr. Zilhao called in Dr. Trinkaus, an authority on Neanderthal paleontology, who went to Lisbon and examined the bones in January.

The boy, who was about 4 years old at death, had the prominent chin and other facial characteristics of a fully modern human. But his stocky body and short legs were those of a Neanderthal. Dr. Trinkaus compared the limb proportions with Neanderthal skeletons, including some children. He said he was then sure of the skeleton's implications.

"It's a complex mosaic, which is what you get when you have a hybrid," Dr. Trinkaus said. "This is the first definite evidence of admixture between Neanderthals and European early modern humans."

The age of the skeleton, determined by radiocarbon dating, showed that full Neanderthals had apparently been extinct for at least 4,000 years before the boy was born. "This is no love child," Dr. Trinkaus said, meaning that this was not evidence of a rare mating but a descendant of generations of Neanderthal-Cro-Magnon hybrids.

Dr. Trinkaus and Dr. Zilhao have completed a more detailed scientific report to be published soon in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. DNA tests on the skeleton have not yet been done.

Other Neanderthal specialists reacted favorably to the discovery. Dr. Fred H. Smith of Northern Illinois University in De Kalb called it "very convincing and absolutely right."

Dr. Smith noted that he had come upon other skeletal material in central Europe that raised the possibility of interbreeding between the groups. Though most scholars in the field will probably accept the possibility of interbreeding, he said, a significant number will probably not.

The more ardent exponents of the out-of-Africa hypothesis of modern human origins may be holdouts. They have argued that early modern humans all emerged from Africa and wiped out the Neanderthal population in Europe. Whether the relationship was fraternal or genocidal has been much debated. But many have argued that the two groups were distinct, with humans displacing and probably slaughtering their rivals.

Dr. Chris Stringer, an expert on Neanderthals at the Museum of Natural History in London, who is a leader of the out-of-Africa forces, said that he was willing to consider the Portuguese findings with an open mind. He told The Associated Press that the current evidence was not sufficient to convince him of Dr. Trinkhaus's hybrid interpretation.

An alternative theory, known as regional continuity, holds that the earliest human ancestors arose in Africa and spread around the world more than a million years ago. Modern humans then emerged in different regions through separate evolution and interbreeding. A leading advocate of this theory is Dr. Milford Wolpoff, a paleontologist at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor.

"This find should be devastating to the out-of-Africa people," Dr. Wolpoff said. "It shows their theory doesn't work, at least in Europe. And it shows that fundamentally, Neanderthals are the same species we are and they contributed their genes to European ancestry."

By now, scientists said, only a small fraction of Neanderthal genes have survived, the European gene pool having been further mixed through migrations during the spread of agriculture and invasions from the east.

But Dr. Wolpoff cautioned that it would take more than one skeleton to tell the effects of interbreeding apart from ordinary evolutionary changes, the result of genes modifying in response to environmental stresses.

Dr. Alan Mann, a specialist in human evolution at the University of Pennsylvania, called the Portuguese hybrid skeleton "some of the most important data we ever got about Neanderthals in human evolution," but said he was not sure that interbreeding had been established.

Dr. Trinkaus said the discovery "refutes strict replacement models of modern human origins" and also seemed to undermine interpretations of recent DNA research. Two years ago, Dr. Svante Paabo of the University of Munich in Germany, reported that a study of the genetic material DNA from Neanderthal remains and living humans indicated that Neanderthals did not interbreed with the modern humans.

At the time, scientists said the DNA results reinforced the idea that Neanderthals were a separate species from modern humans. If the new findings are correct, though, the two groups were probably more like different races of the same species.

"The problem with the DNA research was the interpretation," Dr. Trinkaus said. "It's demonstrably wrong. All that they showed is that Neanderthal biology is outside the range of living humans, not modern Homo sapiens back then."

Dr. Alan Templeton, an evolutionary geneticist at Washington University, said that some hybridization occurs without the effects showing up, for example, in mitochondrial DNA, which is passed only through the mother. "But if you look deep enough in evolutionary time, you find a lot of interbreeding," Dr. Templeton said. "That is what humanity is all about: we interbreed a lot."

http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/Neanderthal.html

Neanderthals really didn't look that different.

http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news267.htm

Seralia I'm glad you posted that last part because I was going to point out the obvious. If it is possible to interbreed humans wiil interbreed. And since Neanderthal was clearly human and not all that different it is inevitable that groups interbred. The Adena are the robust first wave of the North American civilizations that we have clear undisputed evidence of. Whenever you hear "robust" in anthropology always think "Big, and heavy boned". Now what is peculiar, I have found that when ever you find instances of these "Robust" people in North America you also have "Gracile" people which means practically speaking "pygmies'. I have a few of their artifacts photographed and they are contrary to the assertions of todays "experts" not suiltable for hunting large animals without poison on them. Any archery enthusiast will tell you arrows kill by exsanquination, that is they bleed the victim to death. Now these tiny paleoindian points won't even pierce a buffalo hide and probably not a camel or horse either. Yet the stories of the Comanches about the "Little People" state that their little darts never failed to be fatal. Sounds very much like people of the Ituri Forest and Kalahari Desert to me. I'm glad we have some people here deeper into osteology than I am. This thread is very educational for me.

Wow, I am always impressed and amazed when I come back to this thread.
Seralia, you are awesome!

Prue, thanks for joining in and contributing.

Tex, I got the email and didn't realize it was from you, so you can ignore my reply.

I inserted the Calendar stone into your post.

Here's a side by side comparison of...

Sanders Mound Texas Skull and Akhenaten Skull


Seralia, those skulls found in china sure look different.

I'm going to throw in one of my whacky theories. We are all genetic results of interbreeding and creation from advanced beings who needed a strong slave race to mine the earth for minerals and to build the monuments.

There were several various species created, negroid, caucasoid and mongoloid seem to be the 3 dominant ones.

In reference to the little people - pygmies and such.

Think about this... if you were small and weak, wouldn't you need a strong and large race to perform all of the laborous tasks for you?

Just a theory mind you, carry on!

And thank you all for your wonderful contributions!