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> ISLAM: A religion and Government


Master Of His Domain
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Posted: Dec 16 2004, 02:41 PM
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I believe Wahya is the only one who has used the word hate.

Fact: I don't hate Jews. I hate no one.

Posting FACTS is NOT hatred - it's called EDUCATION!


But Chuck is right... if you send out hatred, it comes back to you.

I'm sure BJ will agree here... Jesus said to love your enemy.


In regards to 9/11, that was not caused by some Arabs from Afghanistan and Iraq.

FACT: Arabs were framed, identities were stolen.

FACT: 9/11 Was Allowed to Happen.


QUOTE
"Colonizers, please come and blow up our countries, liberate our children from their arms and legs, destroy our farmlands, poison our lands for thousands of years to come, while giving us porn, drugs, material goods, satelite TV and McDonalds."
~ fictional arab


If you wish to discuss abortion... why not make a thread on that subject?
I'm sure you'll get some feedback.

Peace be with you Chuck.

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QUOTE
"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
~ Matthew 7:16

"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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Posted: Dec 16 2004, 03:24 PM
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Chuck, there were many Orthodox Jews out in the streets of New York City protesting the politics of Israel with its Zionism, which should tell you something.

Would you call those brave souls "Jew haters", too? I love these people!

PuPP:
"I'm sure BJ will agree here... Jesus said to love your enemy."

Yes, but only to the extent that they do no harm to others, and not to the extent that we should allow them to prevail without a fight, even to death. Otherwise, what's the point of this forum, or others like it, in exposing the deeds of those who kill wantonly, being men without conscience. Maybe the term "enemy" should be clearly defined. We need to get practical here.

You know, I was thinking (!) about the cause of starving and diseased people in Africa, Haiti, Palestine (Israel is asking for Christians to come in with relief food, etc.), and other places in the world where there is so much suffering. I asked the Lord why He just doesn't take out the tyrants, who pocket US aid while the people suffer and get only what aid is available from outside charities.

I thought I heard Him say: If I take them out, they will only be replaced by others.

Now, I don't like to hate people, but these are bastard politicians who don't care one thing about the poorest of the poor. Why should I love them! I do not. They live in luxury and ease, while not turning a finger to help the helpless.



BJ


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Posted: Dec 16 2004, 04:24 PM
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Wow, BJ, I find myself disagreeing with you!! winkNEW.gif

I think that Jesus refers to 'Universal Love', which is different from our use of the words ‘Love’ or ‘Like’.

I certainly don’t Like those leaders who steal from the people, or as you put so eloquently (!) the ‘bastard politicians who don't care one thing about the poorest of the poor’. Nor could I Love them in the way that I love my family and those who are close to me.

However, I would gladly connect to offer to them ‘Universal Love’.

I believe this to be one mighty powerful life-energy force that even these creatures can feel. We are all connected, and at the heart of us all is this pure energy. And the more of us who work together at this level, the more we will change our planet and its people for the better. hugs.gif

Remember these creatures feed on our Fear, and War and Hatred are a major source of Fear.
Don’t feed the animals!

Universal Love will cast light into their darkness.

Don’t ever believe that we can’t make a difference – together we can. sun.gif

WF




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Posted: Dec 16 2004, 08:04 PM
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Ah, WF, you are a sweetheart! You wrote:
QUOTE
However, I would gladly connect to offer to them ‘Universal Love’.


This kind (the bastard politicians and their lackeys) has been offered the connection to "Universal Love" for over 2,000 years and have refused it. It's not hatred so much that I feel, but an intense anger and bitterness that gets me right where I live. What feeds the anger is the sorrow I feel for those undergoing this terrible tribulation. It engulfs my spirit!

I don't think they are feeding on our hatred, but upon our helplessness to do anything about what they are doing to human beings that are powerless to help themselves!

Tell ya what, WF, you can love them for both of us. They are not my brothers who cage people like rats, beat them, starve them, and deprive them in every way before they kill their helpless victims. My God! They are beasts.

BJ


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Posted: Dec 17 2004, 03:41 AM
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It doesn't take a rocket scientist's intellect to find God. It's very clearly explained in the book that nearly everyone has, but very few read that the Kingdom of God is within. Incidentally, this is how judgement, balance, and happiness is had.

In all your writings I notice that you never really attack the real issues. Don't you think that this shouts something about a HUGE credibility gap in your thinking?

Obviously, this place PuPP's Forum attracts the GLP'ers who, in my view, exemplify the far left who have lost touch with reality. These Left thinkers cry for dead Iraqis and dead Arab terrorist and Palestinian children, but say nothing a bout the millions of dead American babies whom have had their lives cut out from the mother's body with a pair of sissors that got stuck in the back of their head to kill them.

Then, the total disregard for morality on the Left part. They don't think anything of beating up honest citizens, but when it comes to the USA defending itself they cry out loud that they are against war.

Perhaps you need an adjustment on your judgment too?


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Posted: Dec 17 2004, 06:40 AM
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Chuck:
QUOTE
In all your writings I notice that you never really attack the real issues. Don't you think that this shouts something about a HUGE credibility gap in your thinking?


Chuck, I don't think you are a new member here, so how you can write that with a straight face is puzzling. scratchinghead.gif

This forum has been busy about the task of addressing the real issues of injustices since its inception!

Indeed, Jesus spoke of the kingdom, a kingdom that has NOTHING TO DO WITH CRUELTY TO EITHER MAN OR ANIMAL. Those who do such things have already been judged from of old. No exceptions. The inward man is called to better things and HOLINESS, which means to be kind, compassionate, and JUST, which means ALL are equal under the spiritual LAW. One of the apostles wrote that if we are not able to judge between good and evil, how are we going to be able to judge angels?

The outward man is a manifestation of the inward man. "By their fruits you shall know them." If we stand by, silent and unemotional when we see/hear of the atrocities being perpetrated on our fellow man, we are no better than they are. Matter of fact, it makes us complicit in their actions.

There is no law against doing good.

As far as abortions go, when men start keeping their pants zipped, we can talk about moral issues. If he doesn't care about his own offspring, by taking responsiblity for the life of his unborn child, but would leave the girl/woman whom he seduced, pregant, fearful, and alone, don't forget it is his bloodline that goes swirling down the sewers of the abortion clinic. So, I would say, in the interest of justice here, make a pat law against premarital sex. How's that! Do you think it will fly? Are you willing to care for the woman's unborn child to save it? It's your turn to show some credibilty now.

If abortion is murder, then both mommy and daddy are guilty of taking a life, the first act arriving at the last.

(Sorry, PuPP. That last should have been taken up on another thread, but Chuck won't quit! This is an important issue to him.)

BJ


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Posted: Dec 17 2004, 10:31 AM
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BJ,

In the original message on this thread it had to do with ending Islam in America. There were given some excellent reasons why this ought to happen. The main thrust comes resulting from our moral responsibility to defend ourselfves---not only individually as a man would defend himself from an attacker, but also collectively as a United Nation which we call America.

What got me started on the murder of unborn kids was PuPP and those that think like PuPP thinks that to show the maiming and slaughter of Iraqi and Palestinian children through bloody pictures, and lament about them, yet say nothing about the MILLIONS of murdered American children whose bodies end up in garbage containers.

And then, BJ, when you come on here and talk a bout morality and moral, and the Kingdom, and talk a bout men zipping up their pants--- well, it's like the opposite of obedience to honor, honesty, and God-Like qualites. Tell, me, BJ, how can one lament about the kind of activities America does compared to those that Islam has done to the world and is still doing it? How can you write what you wrote and still condemn Jews, i.e., if you do condem Jews whether they be Zionists or not?

Do yo see the dichotomy present with all this?


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Posted: Dec 17 2004, 12:28 PM
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Chuck, it doesn't make any difference WHO breaks the rules or WHY they do so.

According to the covenant of the GENEVA CONVENTION, inhumane treatment of civilians and prisoners constitutes "War Crimes", with the guilty being subject to arrest and trial under the jurisdiction of the World Court.

No one here is cheering on the Palestinians as they strap on bombs and kill people. It only becomes understandable when you look at what's been done to them over the period of 50 years. That may not make it right, but what choice do they have when the Zionists say they are no more than cockroaches to be squished under the heals of the Jewish boot, as they think of all "gentiles". That's why the same is taking place in Iraq and Afghanistan today.

Instead of the wealth of the world being used to our betterment, it is literally being blown to bits! Billion$ and Trillion$ that would make earth an abundant place to live where no one would starve or go naked or be homeless.

I'm through here, Chuck. You're plumb out of empathy for your fellow man, if you even consider us to be so. We are one with people of all races, colors, and creeds who seek the good and do it; for all races, colors, and creeds have suffered at the hands of very wicked men since time began. It's time we had done with it.

I don't know why you are so afraid of Muslims! Has any personally attacked you, calling you an infidel, and said you were worthy of death? Man, read the Talmud!

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Posted: Dec 18 2004, 05:15 AM
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BJ,

I think you have missed my point altogether. No, I do not take the issues with the Muslims personally. I know people try to imply such a thing when people express opinoins that differ with theirs. They alwasy bring up something like, "Did a Muslim hurt you?" If that were the case all of humanity would be at risk because someone always hurts another. I could ask you the same thing about your comment about men with your zip up your pants comment. Did a man hurt you with his tool? You see how silly that sounds?

You dd bring up some good points about the trillions of dollars getting wasted on war and mayhem. Yet, again, THE Point is that the USA has a moral right and duty to practice self defense. And, that's what we're doing regardless of what the Left think, says, or does. They lost the election because in this Democracy the Majority has spoken. GWBush got re elected and the Kerry/Kennedy Democrats on the Left lost big time. I expect the Bush Admin to go into Iraq and take out wahtever is necessary to bring en end to the terrorist threat to the USA.

I can tell you that if a man or woman came after my wife, or my family I would have no problem taking that person out. In fact, if I did not do it I would not want to live as a dirty coward. I think th Left are Cowards. They talk a good line, but are little on action. Also, I think the Left for the most part are Communists. I work with many of them nearly every day. And I can tell you that I actually get p;hysically ill just observing them with thier platitues about freedom of speech and there is none. If you go up against them you'll know pretty quick just how vicious and diseased they are.

It's agood thing they don't run this country. If they did I would consider it a crime against the rest of the country and we would have to defend ourselves from them.

Praise God that the Clintons are gone! And Kerry/Kennedy ought not get re elected. Get them all out!



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Posted: Dec 18 2004, 12:11 PM
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Hi Chuck;

My apologies for being sarcastic in my previous reply to you,
it's probably not helpful in a serious debate such as this.

I can't tell from your profile but I'm assuming you may be in your thirties and that you might live in America

Some of us old-timers on this forum come from a different era, when thoughts of war and racial and religious strife were considered unsavory relics of a brutal past.

We would hum along to songs like 'Melting Pot' and 'Imagine' etc.

We actively promoted new concepts such as; Environmentalism, Self-sufficiency, Natural health, Spiritual awareness, Peace and Love

Some of us chose to go and live on the land, in a natural environment, as an experiment in self-sufficiency, and to raise families.

One such pioneering group settled in remote coastal north Queensland, Australia

It was an isolated location, 60 miles from the nearest town, most easily reached by boat.

These people grew their own food, constructed their own shelter, raised families and proved the experiment successful, without the aid of electricity, running water, transport or welfare cheques.

It would be safe to say these people posed no threat, or danger to anybody

Then one day a Navy gunship arrived, guns pointing towards the beach, along with several army helicopters and police launches.

Terrified hippies, some naked, stood trembling on the beach as the troops approached.

They were then interrogated, brutalised and shot at by the troops, who then proceeded to burn down their homes.

One poor soul was handcuffed to a coconut palm, while crazed armed policemen used the coconuts above him for target practice.

With barely a sarong and a guitar amongst their treasured possessions, they had the full multi-million dollar military hardware experience, I've been told it was quite surreal.

You may ask....WHAT WAS THEIR CRIME !!

What crime would drive a government to use such resources against harmless hippies ?

I'll let you in on a secret now...it was THOUGHT CRIMES !!

Yes, the Hippies had different thoughts than those approved by the PTB

INCOMPREHENSION of these different thoughts created FEAR

The palpable FEAR indicated a clear & present DANGER which must be dealt with.


If you apply this PTB response to law-abiding Muslims living in western countries, you may see that it's the same....irrational, fear-based & emotionally charged.

Also, regarding your suggestion of extraditing all Arabs from the U.S.

A better idea may be to extradite all the Catholic clergy,

I hear there's some pedophiles amidst that group.

And there's some actual evidence pointing to the perpetrators.


We'll be OK, Chuck, as long as we stick to our B&W and our labels.

And no, I'm not a Muslim, I'm from a white, middle class background, and bloody well ashamed to be called an Australian, at this point in time.

I'm going to the corner shop now, to buy my milk from an ANXIOUS MUSLIM.


Happiness, Peace & Mung beans. hugs.gif Love conquers all fear !!

And we DO love you, CHUCK !!

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Posted: Dec 18 2004, 03:07 PM
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Ganesh,

I actually don't recall any ill tempered message from anyone on this thread. Each of us have a different way of expressing our intellect and emotional responses when we get on the forums. Also, thanks for t he compliment about me being in my 30's.

I would like to respond to your conclusions though as it pertains to "thought crimes." I must profess that this is not the reason I recommend banning Islam from the Shores of the USA and of course the UK. The reason is that Islam is more than a religion. Islam is a form of Government intended to take over where ever it appears. In the US we have our Consitution and we have what is considered to be a Republic; not a theocratic form of Government. Now, we do have and give license to freedom of religion and freedom to practice this religion. Yet, Islam is more than just a religion as I pointed out. And, for this reason, and because of the terrible unrest that Islam has wrought ont he citizens of the US I think we ought to stop at nothing to remove this terrorist source immeditatey. In fact, our senators and congressmen, who have this power, are like cowards themselves. They don't mind sending young women and men over to put themselves in harms way in Iraq, and elsewhere, but when it comes to cutting off the head of the source they hide benind statutes and women's skirts.

Islam is not about "thought crimes." They use Masques as hiding places for weapons and turn those weapons againt our people. What is the body count? Give a figure before we act? So far we have nearly 2000 American's injured or killed and about 3000 dead in the WTC killings. Can someone please give a body count figure before something will get done about Islam in the USA? How about 7000? Is that too small? Maybe 10,.000? Would that do the t rick?


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