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PuPP's Theories Forum > SURVIVALIST CORNER > Preperations for an emergency.

Posted by: LaughingWolf May 28 2004, 11:13 AM
We all should be prepered for emergency situations of various natures. Wether it's global or political the times are not stable and having a few preperations made will make your survivial much easier than if you are caught flat footed.

A self reliant lifestyle, put simply, means anyone can be independent of "the system," building toward as much self sufficiency as possible, given the limits of present day living conditions. Should the electric power go out or natural disasters leave you isolated, plenty of stored food and water, plus heat and cooking systems, etc, will enable your family to continue to be warm and nourished during the emergency and beyond. If Martial Law is declared or terrorist attacks occur, you need not leave the safety of your home, unless your individual foresight and planning include an "early out" to a retreat with pre-positioned supplies. You will have stored food and water, essential to life. Add in faith, and we will wait him out. Remember the seven lean years!

The concepts involved in self reliant living are simple. The implementation is not. It takes dedication and effort to prepare for adversity. The beneficial need of prudent preparations are self evident. With proper preparedness comes security and peace of mind. Problems will slide away as you enable yourself to believe in your ability to just live without fear and struggle. You will not have to rely on government handouts, a community shelter, a food line, or daily onerous trips laden down with milk jugs to the county water tanker truck if available. Those who are not prepared will be controlled. Those who are prepared can live free. The choice is yours to make.

So, how does one become prepared? Preparation is more than reading a book on how to identify edible wild plants, written by an armchair theorist whose worst nightmare is not finding a parking place for his Volvo in front of his favorite Starbucks. Real preparation is work, hard work, and it is not free. This web site is free, and it prints out at over 2000 pages, so clicking the links at the bottom of this page will take you to over 760 individual sites, all within this one web site. is a guideline for preparations for virtually any future calamity, but I am NOT so arrogant as to tell you that skimming through this site in one night is the salvation to your survival can hear that from the city slickers dreaming about how wonderful life would be if we all lived in harmony in nature and food magically appeared on the table three times a day. Self reliant living is a lifestyle, not a weekend game! Real preparations take a lot of thought and action on your part.

You, just you as an individual or family group, have to take action, really do something, to prepare on your own for your own survival. I can help with the wisdom that comes from having lived a self reliant lifestyle, having made the mistakes, purchased the products that do not work, and point you in the right direction for the best preparations at the least cost, and I can show you photos with the proof that I have done it myself, and therefore it is possible. The rest is up to you.

What is written above is pretty tame. George Tenet, CIA Director, said on February 23, 2004 that the United States will be menaced by Islamic extremism "for the foreseeable future" - a war with no end.

On February 24, 2004, Edgar Steele said: " need to ensure that you personally prepare for the coming hard times. Some will think you nuts. But, there are things you can do quietly and covertly, even in that context. Most importantly, you must plan now and be ready to implement that plan the moment the wheels come off. If you live in a city, you need to plan how to get out in the event of a catastrophe. Immediately. Not the next day. Not that night. Immediately." Please read the entire article at the link tracks almost word for word with what I wrote in 1997 in my booklet, "Evacuation and Relocation," but I include the specifics and details...the actual "how to."

One of the better sites for pulling yourself out of the system and being prepared for many eventualities or catastrophies. Not sure if this link has been shared here before and sorry for double posting it if it has been.

Posted by: LaughingWolf May 28 2004, 11:14 AM

Another site with plenty of printable information to aid in surviving various situations. I've looked it over and given it 5 howls out of 5 rating.

Posted by: LaughingWolf May 28 2004, 11:16 AM
What ya gonna do when the barbarians come for you?

For starters every one should have the means to hand to defend themselves and thier families from the ravening hordes of ill wishers who want what you have because they didn't have the foresight to supply themselves with what they needed to survive.

My starting recommendation is one side arm for each adult member of the family with some spare pistols stored away just in case. I also recommend at least one high powered hunting rifle and one shot gun per family unit. Make sure that you have plenty of ammunition stored in a cool and dry place preferably in a water tight container and correctly labeled. Obviously if you buy all the same kind of hand gun you can get much more use out of that ammunition as compared to buying 4 different kinds of gun with 4 different kinds of ammunition. If one breaks down or is irretrievably lost then you have a bunch of usless ammo sitting around that you cannot use in another fire arm.

My personal preferences are a Colt Python Elite .357 revolver with a 4" barrel, adjustable sights and some quick loaders for a pistol and the US Repeating Arms/ Winchester Model 94 Trapper .357 rifle with a 9+1 capacity and a 16" barrel. Uses the same ammo, stainless steel construction, enough stopping power to halt just about anything that is coming your way, easy to use with recoil that is not too bad considering the fire power. The basic ammo is fairly common as well as being easy to make in a pinch and if you keep your casings. In an extreme pinch either of these arms will use .38 ammo but the barrels will need to be re-bored or replaced afterwards.

After you have fire arms you may want to consider some more silent weapons such as a crossbow or long bow. It takes a fair bit more practice with a long bow to be much of a shot with it compared to a crossbow but either is a terrific choice if you know how to use one. Keep your arrows or bolts dry so that they don't warp and your strings dry also so that they do not become brittle and you have a hunting tool that will last you for a long time. A cheep and simple devise called an "Arrow Straightener" is also recommended just in case they do warp a bit. Most hunting supply stores that carry bows of any sort will have one and they are relatively cheep or you can go look at one and make one of your own.

What about when it comes down to hand to hand style combat? You should already have a variety of axes, machetes and knives around for in a pinch situations. Some form of martial arts is also recommended not only for the confidence it will give you along with the health benifits of being physically fit but they do help when it comes to fighting your way out of a situation and staying alive. Depending on the form you study you may also want to start working on your 'attitude'. In a pinch anything is a weapon. Throw a table, a chair, a lamp, pillows, dinner plates, pill bottles, or anything else that comes to hand. They may not in-capacitate your foe but it will buy time for you to get to where you forgot your pistol or to get to something else that will stop an intruder or give you time to make enough of a withdrawal that you can evade the intruders by getting out completely.

If anyone else has any advise I'd be happy to read it or if you have questions about any of the above feel free to ask away and I'll do my best to answer your questions or provide links to the answers.

Posted by: LaughingWolf May 28 2004, 11:20 AM
Basic Survival Skills:

100 Items That Disappear First In A Disaster:

NOTE: This list was first assembled by Joseph Almond prior to Y2K. However, it is valid to consider these as "extremely desirable items" in the event of nearly any disaster. Modify as you see fit.

On more than one occasion recently, Stan and I witnessed generators virtually evaporate. Ditto for portable toilets.

1. Generators
(Good ones cost dearly. Gas storage, risky. of thieves; maintenance, etc.)

2. Water Filters/Purifiers

3. Portable Toilets (Increasing in price every two months.)

4. Seasoned Firewood
(About $100 per cord; wood takes 6 - 12 mos. to become dried, for home uses.)

5. Lamp Oil, Wicks, Lamps
(First choice: Buy CLEAR oil. If scarce, stockpile ANY!)

6. Coleman Fuel
(URGENT $2.69-$3.99/gal. Impossible to stockpile too much.)

7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats and Slingshots

8. Hand-Can openers and hand egg beaters, whisks (Life savers!)

9. Honey/Syrups/white, brown sugars

10. Rice - Beans - Wheat
Sam's Club, stock depleted often.)

11. Vegetable oil (for cooking)
(Without it food burns/must be boiled, etc.)

12. Charcoal and Lighter fluid (Will become scarce suddenly.)

13. Water containers
(Urgent Item to obtain. Any size. Small: HARD CLEAR PLASTIC ONLY)

14. Mini Heater head (Propane) (Without it, propane won't heat a room.)

15. Grain Grinder (Non-electric)

16. Propane Cylinders

17. Michael Hyatt's Y2K Survival Guide
(BEST single y2k handbook for sound advice/tips.)

18. Mantles: Aladdin, Coleman, etc.
(Without this item, longer-term lighting is difficult.)

19. Baby Supplies: Diapers/formula/ointments/aspirin, etc

20. Washboards, Mop Bucket w/wringer (for Laundry)

21. Cook stoves
(Propane, Coleman and Kerosene)

22. Vitamins
(Critical, due 10 Y2K-forced daily canned food diets.)

23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder
(Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous without this item.)

24. Feminine Hygiene/Haircare/Skin products

25. Thermal underwear
(Tops and bottoms)

26. Bow saws, axes and hatchets and Wedges (also, honing oil)

27. Aluminum foil Reg. and Heavy. Duty
(Great Cooking and Barter item)

28. Gasoline containers
(Plastic or Metal)

29. Garbage bags
(Impossible to have too many.)

30. Toilet Paper, Kleenex, paper towel

31. Milk - Powdered and Condensed
(Shake liquid every 3 to 4 months.)

32. Garden seeds (Non-hybrid) (A MUST)

33. Clothes pins/line/hangers (A MUST)

34. Coleman's Pump Repair Kit: 1(800) 835-3278

35. Tuna Fish (in oil)

36. Fire extinguishers
(or. large box of Baking soda per room)

37. First aid kits

38. Batteries (all furthest-out for Expiration Dates)

39. Garlic, spices and vinegar, baking supplies

40. BIG DOGS (and plenty of dog food)

41. Flour, yeast and salt

42. Matches
("Strike Anywhere" preferred. Boxed, wooden matches will go first.)

43. Writing paper/pads/pencils/solar calculators

44. Insulated ice chests
(good for keeping items from freezing in Wintertime)

45. Work boots, belts, Levis and durable shirts

46. Flashlights/Light Sticks and torches, "No.76 Dietz" Lanterns

47. Journals, Diaries and Scrapbooks
(Jot down ideas, feelings, experiences: Historic times!)

48. Garbage cans Plastic
(great for storage, water, transporting - if with wheels)

49. Men's Hygiene: Shampoo, Toothbrush/paste, Mouthwash/floss, nail clippers, etc

50. Cast iron cookware (sturdy, efficient)

51. Fishing supplies/tools

52. Mosquito coils/repellent sprays/creams

53. Duct tape

54. Tarps/stakes/twine/nails/rope/spikes

55. Candles

56. Laundry detergent (Liquid)

57. Backpacks and Duffle bags

58. Garden tools and supplies

59. Scissors, fabrics and sewing supplies

60. Canned Fruits, Veggies, Soups, stews, etc.

61. Bleach
(plain, NOT scented: 4 to 6% sodium hypochlorite)

62. Canning supplies (Jars/lids/wax)

63. Knives and Sharpening tools: files, stones, steel

64. Bicycles.Tires/tubes/pumps/chains

65. Sleeping bags and blankets/pillows/mats

66. Carbon Monoxide Alarm (battery powered)

67. Board Games Cards, Dice

68. d-Con Rat poison, MOUSE PRUFE II, Roach Killer

69. Mousetraps, Ant traps and cockroach magnets

70. Paper plates/cups/utensils

71. Baby Wipes, oils, waterless and Anti-bacterial soap
(saves a lot of water)

72. Rain gear, rubberized boots, etc.

73. Shaving supplies
(razors and creams, talc, after shave

74. Hand pumps and siphons
(for water and for fuels)

75. Soy sauce, vinegar, bouillons/gravy/soup base

76. Reading glasses

77. Chocolate/Cocoa/Tang/Punch (water enhancers)

78. "Survival-in-a-Can"

79. Woolen clothing, scarves/ear-muffs/mittens

80. Boy Scout Handbook
(also, Leader's Catalog)

81. Roll-on Window Insulation Kit (MANCO)

82. Graham crackers, saltines, pretzels, Trail mix/Jerky

83. Popcorn, Peanut Butter, Nuts

84. Socks, Underwear, T-shirts, etc. (extras)

85. Lumber (all types)

86. Wagons and carts
(for transport to and from open Flea markets)

87. Cots and Inflatable Mattresses (for extra guests)

88. Gloves: Work/warming/gardening, etc.

89. Lantern Hangers

90. Screen Patches, glue, nails, screws, nuts and bolts

91. Teas

92. Coffee

93. Cigarettes

94. Wine/Liquors (for bribes, medicinal, etc.)

95. Paraffin wax

96. Glue, nails, nuts, bolts, screws, etc.

97. Chewing gum/candies

98. Atomizers (for cooling/bathing)

99. Hats and cotton neckerchiefs

100. Goats/chickens

Posted by: LaughingWolf May 28 2004, 11:26 AM
Know your first aid and have a well stocked kit handy. Have a bug out plan with a predetermined safe location to meet your family and friends. Know your survival and self defense techniques. Keep a supply of dried and canned food ready to go with you if you do have to bug out. Have equipment to aid in your safety and survival that does not rely on electicity such as a hand can opener and an axe as well as other sorts of hand powered equipment. Make sure everyone knows what to do in case of the various types of emergency situations that can happen.

As always, contributions and debate to this topic is expected and encouraged.

Posted by: ~Silent Grace~ May 28 2004, 11:34 AM
Excellent info LaughingWolf! I don't have everything on the list but I always try to keep things on hand for natural disasters. After being stuck in a blizzard years ago,
the electricity was out for 10 days and that was the most difficult part. Thanks for your effort putting this info together for us.

Posted by: LaughingWolf May 28 2004, 11:38 AM
Most of the items on that list you can live without Grace. That's just a list of things that disapear quickly in an emergency situation.

Posted by: Survivalist May 29 2004, 07:10 AM
Excellent info LaughingWolf!

In this day and time it would be behooving to have (1) a plan and contingency (2) supplies.

The world power has corrupted the world's population to a point where it's hard to experience unprogrammed joy. It's no fun to live this way anymore. Quality of life is in a constant decline while the elite suffers none. There were many, many great civilizations before us and they disappeared. Why would it be so improbable now? The earth's ressonance (frequency) has been, and is rising dramatically. Native Americans have made their warnings known and are preparing themselves now. Cellestial activities and signs are another piece to the puzzle along with unfounded military activities, uncivilized additional control imposed on us, and the illogic of occupying other countries.

Yes, it would be smart time and money spent to prepare to live, in case you do.

Posted by: LaughingWolf May 29 2004, 12:59 PM
Bug out or evacuation kits? Do you have one ready? Unfortunately I don't have mine completed yet but it's on my list of things to do asap.

Find a large hiking style back pack with the aluminum frame and the lower back support. Multiple pockets on the outside of the pack are encouraged for ease of finding some of the smaller items but not really needed. Solid and sturdy comfortable hiking boots and a sturdy leather belt are definately recommended.

1 complete change of clothes. (socks, underwear, long pants, long sleeve shirt)
1 hand can opener. (swiss army knife or multi function leatherman type tool is ok)
1 or 2 boxes of strike anywhere waterproof matches.
3 days supply of food. (for portability and nutritional value granola type bars are good).
3 days supply of water in small hard bottles or canteens.
1 water filtration devise.
1 small hand axe or hatchet.
1 small sewing repair kit.
1 filtration mask. (Make sure it's not the little masks you get to work in dusty areas. Something more like a military surplus mask is recommended.).
1 reflective survival blanket or cold weather sleeping bag. (This can be tied to the outside of certain back packs.)
1 6' x 8' plastic tarp or small dome tent. (This also can be tied to the outside of certain back packs.)
1 stainless steel pot and a stainless steel pan for cooking and other uses. (Cast iron is ok but heavier than the stainless. Avoid the tephlon stuff as it wears out or scratches and you end up with tephlon flakes in your system.)
Ammo for your fire arms in waterproof containers such as sure seal zip lock bags.

You should already have a belt holster for your side arm and with the sewing kit and some cloth you can improvise a holster for your rifle or shot gun on your back pack for an over the shoulder draw. A sturdy walking stick of some sort is also recommended. The going could get rough and that walking stick could mean the difference between you making the climb and you losing your balance and not making the climb. A sturdy and solid knife of some sort with a sheath should be attached to your belt on the opposite side of your hand gun for balance. Keep the gun on your 'good' side (left handed put it on the left, right handed on the right) for ease of reach when needed to back off the barbarians. The gun is prefered for this and not the knife, peace through superior firepower, with luck you won't even have to waste any bullets on them and they will no longer have you tagged as an easy mark.

If you still have room in the back pack you can add other stuff like heritage seeds (non-gm seeds that produce thier own seeds), survival manuals if needed and whatever else you feel you need to take with you. This list is by no means complete and feel free to add on to it. This is just the basic minimums needed for a 3 day hike to a predetermined meeting place for friends and family in the event of a calamity.

Posted by: off_the_street May 31 2004, 07:31 AM
1. Introduction

Potatoes are great food. The Irish lived on them for years; and if there’s one vegetable that provides more nourishment for the effort to raise them, I can’t think of it. You can store potatoes for quite a while in a root cellar, and they are pretty low-maintenance plants to grow.

Two disadvantages of these tubers is that they are often damaged when harvesting, since growers typically use a potato-fork (which is a sort of blunt-edged pitchfork) to harvest them, and that often splits the potatoes; and, they take up a lot of room in the garden.

The tater tire-tower is a way to solve both problems, as well as to cut down on weeding.

2. How to Do It

You’ll need three or four old tires of the same size – I’ve used ones from light trucks or full-size cars. If the tires are NOT steel-belted radials, you can cut the sidewalls off with an electric keyhole saw to get a bit more production, but it’s not absolutely necessary. If you live in a hot area, you should paint the tires a light color to reflect the sunlight and keep the soil a bit cooler. Even if cooling the soil were not a problem, I’d paint the tires just to make the tower look better.

Clear a flat area about four feet in diameter, removing all weeds. Lay a tire flat, and fill it up with good soil, including the amendments you’d usually use for roots and tuber crops. Plant the potato-eyes or already-sprouted plants at the appropriate depth. When the plants are a couple of inches high, stack a second tire on top of the first one, and gently fill it with dirt, too. Of course, you’ll cover up the newly-sprouted plants, but that shouldn’t be a problem. It might be best to have someone hold the sprouts straight up, so they won’t have to put forth as much effort to grow up through the new soil.

Now, plant more potato-eyes or already-sprouted plants in the new soil. The new plants and the old ones should clear the surface at about the same time. Of course, by now there’ll be twice as many plants competing for light, so make sure they get enough sun. When the plants are a couple of inches above the new layer, repeat the process with the third and (if you choose) the fourth tire.

When harvest time comes, dismantle the tower (you might need a helper for this, since the dirt-filled tires will be pretty heavy) one tire at a time, and the potatoes will just roll out. Gently brush the dirt off the taters and store them on layers of straw in a cool, dark place. They’ll keep for quite a while, as long as they’re not bruised or cut.

Remember that the soil should be added gently to the second, third, and fourth layers. This helps keep the newly-buried shoots from getting crushed, and also allows good irrigation (remember, those first-generation taters are in pretty deep, and you need to make sure the water percolates down to their level). You might also want to bore a couple of holes in the side of the tater-tower near ground level, so the water doesn’t collect in the bottom and rot the taters.

The first time I tried this, I got almost a bushel of taters from four truck tires. Neighbors would run in fear whenever I appeared at their door with my crop. It’s almost like zucchini (except that you can do a lot more with taters than you can with zucchini)!

I have only grown Idaho potatoes this way, but I see no reason why red potatoes (or even sweet potatoes and yams) wouldn’t work.

Good luck!

Posted by: Guest May 31 2004, 10:58 AM

by Off_the_Street

1. Introduction

Lack of good drinking water kills more children (especially in the Third World) than almost anything else. Microorganisms in a water supply can cause dysentery, which can lead to diarrhea and fatal dehydration. Recently, many health workers throughout the world have developed inexpensive pasteurization ponds that provide people with all the fresh water they need.

Most illnesses from water come from bacteria and other microorganisms that can be killed by pasteurization. Pastuerization is heating the fluid (water, in this case) to a temperature of about 175 deg F and holding it for a half-hour. If your health problems can be solved by this method, you can build a pasteurization pond that will provide safe water for a large group.

2. How this Article is Structured

This paper shows how you can build a solar (sun)-powered pasteurization pond. It will take in impure water, heat it to pasteurization temperature, and allow you to collect it. Bear in mind that the dimensions are variable, depending on how much water you need to pasteurize. Section 3 contains detailed construction instructions, and Section 4 explains how it operates.

One document that is not included is a BOM (bill of materials). Since you can build this pond in a wide range of dimensions, each BOM will be unique to your own sizing.

3. How to Build the Pasteurization Pond

 Level an area of ground ten by twenty feet.

 Dig a pond in the middle of the cleared area sixteen feet long, six feet wide, and eight inches deep. Use some of the excavated dirt to make a berm around the pond four inches high and four inches wide. At one end of the pond, dig a sump about eighteen inches in diameter and an additional eight inches deep.

 Pack the dirt carefully. If you have it available, line the pond, berm, and sump with chicken wire or hardware cloth, and rebar.

 Using a portland cement/sand/gravel mix available in your area, line the sump, berm, and pond to a depth of 2 or 3 inches. For a two-inch depth, this will require about 38 cu ft or 1.4 cu yd of concrete; for a three-inch depth, you will need about 58 cu ft or 2.1 cu yd. Let the concrete cure for several days as required for your climate and time of year.

 Line the pond with black 3-mil poly sheeting. Use a single sheet if possible.

Figure 1 shows what the pond should look now like (in cross section).

user posted image

Using a hose, fill the pond within three inches of the berm’s rim with water. This means the water will be about five inches deep in the pond. Fill the pond from the side away from the sump, and secure the hose in place.

 Place a floating thermometer, available form a pool or hot-tub store, in the water at the sump end, so that the base of the thermometer is down in the sump.

 Run another section of hose from below the surface of the water at the sump end, over the top of the berm, and secure it in place.

 Place a dozen or so styrofoam balls on the top of the water, then cover the pond with 2-mil clear plastic. Stretch the plastic over the entire pond, berm, and the two hoses, anchoring it with dirt and rocks. The floating styrofoam balls will support the clear plastic and keep an air space between it and the water’s surface.

Figure 2 shows the cross-section again, this time with the water, hoses, balls, thermometer, and sheeting in place.

4. How the Pasteurization Pond Works

When you fill the pond with water via the fill hose (the water should be filtered first to remove suspended particulates), it begins to heat up. The clear plastic acts just like a greenhouse, letting the light through but trapping most of the heat. Depending on the amount of the sunlight and the depth of the water, the water should reach about 170 –190 deg F within four to six hours. Since the coldest water is in the sump (because cold water is heavier and sinks), when you see a temperature reading of 175 deg F, you know the rest of the water is at least that hot.

Let the water stay at that temperature for a couple of hours, and drain off the hot water with the drain hose as needed. It should now be free of most live bacteria and other pathogens; and, after cooling in a clean container, is ready for use.

Once you’ve drained off enough of the pasteurized water, fill the pond again and let the water heat up once more. You don’t need to remove the clear plastic cover when re-filling.

If you siphon off just the top two inches of a 16’ X 6’ pond each day, you will have 5.33 cu ft or 42 gal of pasteurized water per day. Playing it safe and assuming that you will only be able to get half that much (assuming some cold or overcast days), that’s still more than 2 gallons of safe drinking water per day per person for a dozen people.

Best of all, your fuel source (the sun) is free; and, if you change the plastic cover every six months or so (since UV light may degrade it), you and your group may be assured of safe drinking water indefinitely.

Posted by: Guest May 31 2004, 11:19 AM

by Off_the_Street

1. Introduction

Lack of good drinking water kills more children (especially in the Third World) than almost anything else. Microoganisms in a water supply can cause dysentery, which can lead to diarrhea and fatal dehydration. Recently, many health workers throughout the world have developed inexpensive solar-powered distillation units, or stills, and pasteurization ponds that provide people with all the fresh water they need.

Most illnesses from water come from bacteria and other microorganisms that can be killed by pasteurization. Pastuerization is heating the fluid (water, in this case) to a temperature of about 175 deg F and holding it for a half-hour. If your health problems can be solved by this method, you can build a pasteurization pond that will provide safe water for a large group.

Distillation is different. Distilling water actually turns it into a vapor by heating it, and the water vapor (which has left behind all the organisms as well as any other impurities in the water) is condensed (turned back into liquid water) and collected. Distilled water is more pure and safer than pasteurized water, and no longer contains any dissolved solids like calcium carbonate. Also, distilled water should be used in batteries, electric irons, and anyplace else where you don’t want dissolved solids to clog up the appliance.

2. How this Article is Structured

This paper shows how you can build a solar (sun)-powered still. It will take in impure water, turn it to water vapor (steam), condense it back to distilled water, and collect it. Section 3 explains the principles of operation, Section 4 contains detailed construction instructions, and Section 5 overviews operations and maintenance.

One document that is not included is a BOM (bill of materials). Since you can build this still in a wide range of dimensions, each BOM will be unique to your own sizing. The most expensive and hard-to-find item, of course, is the tempered glass face. I would suggest you get the best deal you can on a pane of tempered glass over three by three feet, and size the still from that.

3. How the Solar Still Works

The still is a flat box, hinged so that the top and the bottom are the same size. The box is tilted about five degrees from horizontal; this is the “high end”. The top of the box is made of tempered glass, and the bottom is lined with black plastic. At the high end of the box is a polyvinyl chloride (PVC) pipe with holes drilled in it. This pipe is connected to a hose that brings in the impure water. When the hose is turned on, the water pressure is set so that the water dribbles slowly out of the holes in the PVC pipe and down the bottom of the still (the part covered with black plastic). Gravity pulls the water down to the low end of the still, and covers the black plastic.

When the still is in the sun, the inside temperature rises quickly, and the thin film of water running down the inside begins to evaporate. It rises and condenses on the underside of the glass plate, and runs down to the low side. At the low edge of the glass plate is a trough made of PVC pipe. The distilled water drips into the trough and runs out a hole in the side of the still, through a small tube, and into the container that you are using to store the water.

4. Building the Solar Still

There is no absolute dimensional requirement for the still; the larger you make it the more it will produce (and cost). The still we built was four feet wide, four feet high, and six inches deep. Since that’s what the figure shows, too, we’ll use those dimensions for purposes of discussion.

user posted image

user posted image

1. Build the lower half. The base is a piece of 1/2” CDX plywood, four feet on a side. With the C side up, screw four 4” X 2-1/2” sides, also of 1/2” CDX, to the perimeter of the 4 X 4 plywood and to each other. Using a single piece of 2-mil black poly sheeting, line the inside of the box up to about an inch above the bottom. Secure the edges of the poly to the sides of the box with brads. Do not puncture the poly sheeting; if you do, water could leak through and damage the plywood. Set the lined box aside.

2. Build the upper half. The base is a wooden frame, four feet on a side, into which the glass is placed and secured as convenient. Screw four 4” X 2-1/2” sides, also of 1/2” CDX, to the perimeter of the frame and to each other. Set aside.

3. Prepare and install the inflow tube. Cut a piece of Schedule 40 3/4” ID PVC pipe fifty inches long. Starting about four inches from the end, drill a series of 1/8” holes about three inches apart until you get to within four inches of the other end. Drill a 3/4-inch hole through the side of the lower half as shown in the cross-section view. Carefully cut a hole in the black poly lining and slide in the inflow tube.

With the inflow tube partly in, cap the end with a PVC end cap. Slide the tube in the rest of the way until the capped end is resting snugly against the side of the box away from the hole. Secure that end. Now twist the tube until the row of holes is facing downward and almost touching the black poly lining, (These are the holes from which the water will come out and flow down the lining.)

The other end of the inflow tube should be sticking out about an inch and a half from the hole. Using a non-toxic silicone sealant, carefully caulk the inside and outside of the hole, so that there will not be any leakage around the pipe and underneath the black poly lining.

Glue the appropriate fitting to the protruding end of the inflow tube to attach the garden hose, or whatever tubing you will use to deliver the untreated water.

4 Prepare and install the collection trough. Cut a piece of Schedule 40 1-1/2” PVC pipe as long as the inside width of the upper half (about 47 inches). Then cut the pipe lengthwise, ending up with two troughs. (You will only use one; save the other one for a second still if you choose to build it.)

Place the trough as shown in the cross section view. Attach it, using small brass screws, to the end of the upper half. The trough should be butting against both sides of the upper half. Using a non-toxic silicone sealant, carefully caulk the ends of the trough, so that no water can leak back down into the lower half after it’s condensed. Drill a 3/4” hole in the side of the upper end so that it exactly matches the bottom of the trough, and insert a two-inch-long piece of 3/4” Schedule 40 PVC pipe. (This is how the water in the trough will flow out of the still.)

5. Assemble the still. Carefully invert the upper half and place it over the lower half. At the inflow end, mark for two hinges and install them. (This will allow you to open up the still to periodically clean it.) Glue a rubber strip along the rim of the lower half where it meets the upper half. (This makes the still watertight, which avoids contamination and increases its thermal efficiency.) At the outflow end, mark for several spring latches (similar to those on a musical instrument case) and install them. (This will keep the still tightly closed unless you want to clean it.)

6 Set up the still. Choose an unshaded outside location, and place the still about five degrees from horizontal facing south (if you’re north of the equator). Attach the hose from the untreated water container to the inflow tube. Attach the tube from the collecting trough to the container you’re using to collect your distilled water. Start the water flow.

Adjust the inflow water volume so that the water dribbles down the black poly lining. Once the still reaches stagnation temperature, adjust the volume so that the water never quite reaches the lower end of the still. As the water evaporates away from the hot black poly lining, you will see droplets form on the underside of the glass surface. As gravity pulls these drops down to the trough, check to make sure the distilled water can flow unimpeded out of the trough, through the discharge tube, and into the collecting and storage container. You may have to tilt the still about one degree to the discharge side so that the trough doesn’t overflow.

5. Operations and Maintenance

The amount of distilled water depends primarily on the heat of the still. During summer in the Sonoran Desert, our 4’ X 4’ model produced about a liter an hour. This is probably the optimum; a sunny winter day, you’d be lucky to get half that output. Unlike a solar panel, the angle of which you can adjust to face the sun, the solar still must stay at about a five degree from horizontal orientation; or else the water would flow down the black poly lining faster than it would evaporate. However, experimenting with the proper angle and the optimum inflow volume will provide the best results.

You can also attach acardboard or plywood piece covered with aluminized mylar to the top or side of the still and angle it to concentrate more sunlight on the black plastic.

If your untreated water is “hard” (i.e., it has dissolved calcium carbonate in it), you will have to open the still up on a regular basis to clean the inflow tube’s holes and wash away the deposits from the folds in the black poly lining. Do this carefully; you don’t want to accidentally rip the lining – that would decrease distillation efficiency and allow the water to soak into the plywood.

I am not aware of anyone who has used this still to distill seawater, although it can be done. However, if you do so, you will get a much faster buildup of precipitated salts, and will probably have to rinse the inside and clean the inflow tube holes much more often.

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jun 1 2004, 11:20 PM
Rifleman tactics as posted by Rear View at GLP.


I have heard many "new" second amendment converts ask "but what can one man do against an army." The following is an opinion recently published which may begin to answer this question. It is in "Fred´s" column.

The following is protected speech under the 1st Amendment. It is strictly hypothetical, and no one is urged to take any unlawful action. The discussion is for educational purposes only to stimulate thought about an important topic, defending constitutional rights.

Existance of the 2nd amendment implies willingness and ability to exercise rights protected by that amendment.The original purpose was to provide citizens with means to check a runaway government - what has been called the "ultimate safety net." But it also implies a DUTY to be ready to use ´em - or be ready to lose ´em.

In the future one is likely to see a weak US government experiencing increasing difficulty enforcing confiscatory gun laws, and "invites" assistance from the UN, setting the stage for the integration of the US into a world government. Liberals worship the UN, anyone associated with the UN or the Third World, and international law - and wouldn´t think twice about seeking outside help to manage unruly - in their eyes - criminals in the US population.

So all it may take is a liberal president and liberal control of Congress - and the rest of us are SOL.

That introduction sets the stage for a discussion of the second amendment rifleman, in which we (for now) narrowly focus on tactics which might be used by that rifleman to aid in the defense of our hard - won heritage of freedom.

First, equipment. 1st choice of weapon is a semi-auto M14, but if you don´t have one, an SKS or AR15 would be useful. You could even make people sit up and take notice with a Lee-Enfield if you practice enough to be fast on the bolt. Any other firearm is perfectly acceptable provided it - and you - can outshoot your opponent.

Since you may have to move to the encounter location, ammo in bandoleers and mags in pouches, along with 2 qts of water are a minimum. An emergency bandage and binocs would be useful (We are not talking about survival in the woods, merely movement to contact.)

The following will focus only on actions of the individual rifleman, and ignore two other important topics, some aspects of which may alter the following, namely Preparing the encounter location and teamwork.

The first rule would be to take no unnecessary risks. Think about it. You want to remain undetected until you reveal yourself with hits on the target, and even then you want asmuch cover as you can get.

Unseen means observing principles of camouflage: disruption of shape, prevention of shine, awareness of shadow, and moving either very fast or very slow. A 3´ by 4´ section cut out of camo screening will be very useful, along with garnishing your firearm to break up its distinctive shape - something as simple as wrapping a band of burlap diagonaly down the stock will do the trick.

Early target detection is a must in this case, your oponent will be on the move and your movement is simply to get you to the place where you can stop him (that is the essence of defense of home and community, and the first stage of defending freedom.) More than likely your opponent will bemotorized, so target detection will be fairly easy.

Cover means physical protection from hostile fire. That means you select your engagement location to preclude easy detection and expose the smallest possible area to the enemy.

Your mission is to harass, delay, and cause maximum casualties to the other side. If you are good enough, you can get several hits before the other side has time to react, thereby catching multiple targets unaware and exposed.

Engagement range will be a minimum of 300 yards, and preferably 400 or 500 yards - the "devil´s playground" - but for you the rifleman it is simply your work area. At the minimum range you will be outside the effective range of aimed rifle fire and need only worry about random rifle/MG fire - and automatic grenade launchers. And this last means you get the best cover possible. If air is afactor, make that overhead cover. Once your position is revealed you will immediately relocate to another position 50 or 100 yards away, although this time your targets will be vulnerable locations on vehicles and equipment (the uniformed personnel will be behind cover, you bet).

Now´s when you don´t push your luck. Better to get out and fall back to the next good position and wait for them to saddle up and come down the road again. Eventually, they will put out scouts to walk ahead and these will be "gimme" targets, until you´ve got them so demoralized they 1) stop for the night, 2) button up and ram their way down the road, or 3) vsll in fire support. By this time you should be ugging out, satisfied with a job well done, not pushing your luck - there´ll be other days.

Depending on the persistent stupidity or the quickness of the other side, you will have fired as few as a half dozen rounds or as many as 25-40 rounds.

But "Rome wasn´t built in a day," and the founding fathers will have another day to smile down on you for using the tools they have guaranteed for you so long ago.

Next time: Preparing the encounter location.

So now for those of you wondering about just what those gun you are duty bound to own are for, I will present part II tomorrow.

The following is protected speech under the 1st Amendment. Strictly hypothetical, no one is urged to take any Unlawful action. The discussion is for educational purposes only to stimulate thought about an important topic, defending constitutional rights.

As I promised, this is Part 2.

Unlike the embattled farmers of 1776, riflemen today have time and the opportunity to consider ways they might have to react to protect home and community from external aggression.

The first rule would be to take no unnecessary risks:Remain undetected until your bullets hit the target.

But if you can, give yourself additional insurance by preparing the encounter location. Boobytraps, deadfalls, barricades, diversions, even wildfires or phony mines can be used to distract, confuse, and disorganize the other side, reducing their ability to focus on you as the real threat.

You´ll need every help you can get to minimize risks and maximize impact. And if you can get a few hours - in some cases a few minutes - notice you will be in a better position to guide the outcome the way you want it to go.

Assume our friends are a UN convoy en route to wherever (what do you care where? When you see your natural enemy, it doesn´t matter what he´s doing or where he´s going - you stop him and do your best to take him out!)

Now, think about that ROAD-BOUND convoy....and the key: the road. The VC used to plant a command-detonated mine - guaranteed to piss everyone off! You too can prepare that road- if only with a primitive obstacle like a derelict vehichle or downed trees.

Then hit from an unexpected direction. For example, the convoy bumps up against your obstacle, and you hit the REAR of the convoy, not the front! If there is more than one of you, you can hit the front and rear, but that´s another story - for next time.

By the time they have cleaned up the mess and confusion at the rear of the convoy, you should have worked your way around to the front of the convoy and, just as they are pulling around your obstacle, you hit them again, disabling drivers and any vulnerable vehicles. (In the late 70´s, an Army general testified to Congress that there were 14 points on the Soviet T72 main battle tank where an expert rifleman could disable the tank. Armored vehicles are NOT safe from you - no, not at all.)

You use your rifleman skills and stay at least 300 yards out - if you have prepared the engagement area you know the exact range to critical points. It will make a real difference to your effectiveness. Heck, thin skinned vehicles are going to be easy meat at 400 and 500 yards (recall your batle-sight zero - simply go up 3 clicks for 400 and 4 more for 500 yards. Your 308 will have plenty of punch left to do the job. And the thin-skinned vehicles are what the convoy is all about. Stop them, and the job is done.)

Now remember, all we are doing is talking hypothetically about how you can use your rifleman skills in defense of your freedom from external aggression. No one wants to see it happen; no one is advocating you do anything but become a skilled shooter; few want to grab their firearms and go out to defend the country - but you have to consider these things if you are going to be prepared.

Dame History has a way of playing tricks on people - and nations. Never forget; those Chinese nukes are only 30 minutes away. Never forget the world-wide consensus of world leaders that small arms should be banned -world wide-. Think a liberal US president will fight hard on the world stage for your 2nd amendment? I don´t think so. And I don´t think he will look on the UN as an enemy - nope, UN forces will look - through his eyes - more like friends, you bet. What will be a world-class disaster to you - the loss of your freedom and your country´s sovereignty - he will view as "stabilizing" and himself a hero for bringing our country into compliance with "international law". Never forget it. And be prepared. Mentally and physically. If it ever happens again, a bunch of farmers with shotguns gathered on the village green will not do the trick. It will take riflemen who know what they are doing, who know the value of their skills, and the superiority over the enemy that possession of those skills gives - and who minimize risks...

next time: TEAMWORK!



The following is protected speech under the 1st Amendment, for educational purposes only to stimulate thought about an important topic, namely, defendng constitutional rights. No one is urged to take any unlawful action.

(Existence of the 2nd Amendment implies willingness & ability to exercise rights protected by the ´untimate safety net´ - and a DUTY to be ready to use ´em - or be ready to lose ´em.

A future scenario might be a US government which ´invites´ UN assistance to help impose rule of international law - including a ban on small arms...


When the time comes, the first to go under will be the ones who never see it coming, the ones who stick their heads in the sand and sneer "It´ll never happen here!" Next will be the risk-taking, self-sacrificing ´heroes´ who don´t know any better. The third bunch to go will be the loners, those who don´t have any friends or who can´t work with others. The ones left - the ones who are going to save this country - are the team players. Even as far back as 1940 team effctiveness was recognized:

"Experience has shown that in the absence of team training the fire of a group of riflemen in battle is poorly controlled and is haphazardly directed. This fact remains true even where every individual in the group is an expert shot....."military training manual, 1942.

Two or more riflemen acting together as a team, not only are more effective than as individual riflemen - by acting in concert, they also reduce the risk to each other!

What a great deal! More down-range effectiveness- with less risk! And the cost is nothing but a willingness to get together with others and shoot as a team.

Think about it. By dividing into more than one group, you can do the military "fire and maneuver´ tactic where one party keeps the enemy´s heads down and the other moves (but not to attack - that is not ordinarily the tactic of the rifleman, unless success without risk is assured). Even more important, one party can come to assistance when the other gets into water a little too hot.

Picture the classic convoy situation and two 3 man rifleman teams (most scenarios envision an invading force moving mostly by road, with the variables being the skill level of the opponent and the level of his air and artillery support). The encounter area has been prepared with fighting positions, a road blocker to stop the convoy, and ranges mapped out. Team A moves into position and opens fire at a prearranged point 500 yards from the convoy (Ideally, in such a position that the convoy will, if it continues moving, approach within 300 yards minimum of the team). Each member of Team A has an assigned target along with alternate targets to take out. The range is known precisely from pre-recon of the encounter area. Each team member has a good zero and can be counted on to get off 20 well aimed shots in 30-60 seconds. (Team SOP - Fire one mag rapid fire, cease fire and move to a designated spot.)

A 3 man team will therefore put 60 well-aimed rounds into the driver´s postions and any exposed personnel. A well-trained convoy will respond with MG fire in the direction of the initial attack. And here is where Team B steps in and reveals its presence.

By pre-arrangement, the cessation of fire from ´A´ will be the signal for ´B´ to fire one mag. Another 60 rounds into the convoy, this time from another direction, preferably the opposite direction to catch personel taking cover behind vehicles. Fire from the convoy is now distracted from ´A´, and the first signs of panic at being ´surrounded´ may already be popping out.

Team ´A´ has meantime shifted position and again dumps a mag apiece into the target. The convoy commander´s plate is filling fast as this ´3rd´ groun opens up- and 180 well-aimed shots have impacted on the convoy in just minutes. Meantime, Team ´B´, with fresh mags, is falling back to the next ´stop point´ for their ´round two´ with the convoy.

You begin to get the picture: Two or more groups can confuse and panic the enemy while taking pressure off each other and dividing attention and reaction. Riflemen working together to defend Constitutional freedoms as foreseen by the Founding Fathers can multiply the effects of their actions all out of proportion to actual numbers by working together as teams, unbalancing the enemy - and reducing the mutual risk!

And don´t forget the personal side of the equation. Those SOB´s in the convoy are the ones responsible for you having to get up, get dressed, get your firearm and ammo, trek a long way drinking tepid water from a canteen, and hear those 12.7´s cracking over your head. No wonder you´re aggravated! If those SOB´s are too stupid to know that they are not welcome here, that they should have stayed home - well at least you have the satisfaction of sending them the message - 20 well-aimed shots at a time! With any luck it will be British troops with German allies, and 1776 all over again. (I trust this time we sign the peace treaty in London - and let´s write a new British Constitution - with the ´right to keep & bear´ protected!)


It´s when you consider future possibilities that certain personal goals/standards become evident. Sure, shooting is fun, but you should never lose sight of the serious dimension absent in every other sport - the role of shooting - marksmanship - in protecting your freedoms - the safety of your family - of your community.

Maybe you read our series of "thoughts" on rifleman tactics. Maybe it lead you to re-evaluate what you should be doing at the range - maybe seriously working to improve your shooting, particularly rapid fire. Maybe you talked to another guy at the range, found out you were simpatico, and did a little team shooting with him.

And maybe it encouraged you to write a ´one minute´ - or several of them - periodically to your gov reps - something like "I am strongly against ANY more gun control - and I vote - and make sure my friends vote"!

If so, the series was worth writing, and worth printing. We all need to wake up to the seriousness of the present - and of the future. If you read the book "1984" and liked that world, do nothng - it´s coming true even now. Or you can stop it - if you get off the couch and do the ´one minute´ bit. And make sure you vote, and your friends vote. It´s that easy. And don´t forget to become a ´rifleman´!

As promised, the third installment. Of course, I fervently wish that these tactics will only have to be used in video games. Regards to all. And don´t anyone do anything stupid prematurely.

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jun 2 2004, 09:02 AM

How to Make a Solar Power Generator for Less Than $300

Using parts easily available from your local stores, you can make a small solar power generator for $250 to $300. Great for power failures and life outside the power grid. Power your computer, modem, vcr, tv, cameras, lights, or DC appliances anywhere you go.


Step by step instructions with diagrams and pictures. Very interesting.

Posted by: Vianova Jun 2 2004, 09:58 AM
Yes this is becoming a great forum!
bump to the top.

One silly question, why tuna fish in oil? and not water...
{from above lists}

Weaonry and ammo has to be protected as well, it will be a target of thieves and vagabonds.
Community enforcement and protectional unity will be necessay.
Be sure to know and be friends with your immediate neighbors.
You may have to fend off roving armed gangs in limited warfare.

Learn to use your guns properly, and get some target practice..

Posted by: Dreamer/akaScully Jun 2 2004, 10:24 AM
Good question Vianova. Is it because it is higher in calories? Or perhaps the oil could be used for cooking?

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jun 2 2004, 10:30 AM
Any sort of canned food is going to disapear quickly. Tuna with oil keeps longer and better than tuna with water I think. High protien food and easily portable in those small cans. That is just a list of things that disapear quickly in an emergency situation. People run out and buy up all they can of this stuff when a problem looms in the near future such as a hurricaine or blizzard or other sort of problem.

Very good point about knowing your neighbors and being on good terms with them Vi. It could mean the difference between you fighting off a ravening horde alone or with support from several dozen others in your local.

Posted by: Shakoora2 Jun 2 2004, 08:30 PM
Good post wolf, but I think i'll Go with the show!.........peace

Posted by: Wahya Jun 2 2004, 11:28 PM
A note on archery:

It's important to be able to make good arrows.

1. Be sure the shaft material is strong enough to survive the power of the bow in question. I use birch or dogwood. For now, you can use hardwood dowel rods of at least 1/4" but be sure the grain goes all the way across. Painting the shaft helps a little to prevent splitting.

2. Only use feathers from the same wing on each arrow. NEVER mix right with left wing feathers as they are shaped in opposite directions. This will make your arrow fly erratically. An inaccurate arrow is worthless.

3. Learn how to flintknap. DC Waldorf's "The Art of Flintknapping" is so well written, you can practically teach yourself by studying it and lots of practice. Any questions on flintknapping, contact me. I've done it for a long time. Making your own arrow points in a must.

4. A good glue for fletching your arrows can be made by collecting pine sap and mixing it with enough wood ashes to make it hard. It can be made soft again by heating it over a fire.

5. Make sure you have plenty of extra bowstrings.

Posted by: Off_the_Street Jun 3 2004, 04:20 PM
Laughing Wolf, there’s a big difference between the $250 - $300 solar generator which is more of a ‘demo’ or a ‘toy’ system, and one that will really provide you with usable power. In order to understand why, you need to take a closer look at the suggested module:

Rated power (Watts, peak): 5.50
Typ. 12 Volt Charging (Amp. Hrs/Wk) 13.00
Voltage, Typ. Max Power (Volts) 15.60
Current, Typ. Max Power (Amps) .35

Now when a photovoltaic (PV) model is rated at “Max Power”, what is meant is that this is the voltage and current output at “one full sun”, which is the functional equivalent of a noontime summer sun in a cloudless sky. Typically, a sunny climate, like Santa Fe or Tucson, will provide about 6.5 hours of full sun in the summer and 4.5 in the winter (assuming no rain or clouds, of course). In Santa Fe, the PV module’s power output will be greater because it’s cooler, and the hotter the surface of a PV module gets, the less efficient it is.

Now assuming you have one of the above modules and you’re using it during the day to charge your battery, your 0.35 amps at charging ~15.5vdc means that your module will put out about 2.275 ampere-hours per day (AH/day) into the battery in summer, and 1.575 AH/day in the winter. Since a typical deep-cycle lead-acid battery is rated at 105 AH capacity, it’ll take 66 winter days (two months) or 46 summer days (a month and a half) just to bring the battery up to full charge – and that’s assuming you don’t use the battery to actually RUN anything during that time!

As a matter of fact, it’ll probably take the full output of the little PV module just to keep the battery trickle charged, since lead-acid batteries tend to self-discharge.

Now if you were to use some other method to pre-charge your battery, and didn’t have to worry about self-discharge, you could use the daily output of the PV module to actually do something – but it wouldn’t be very much!

For example, you could re-charge four AA Nickel-Metal Hydride (NiMH) batteries of 100 milliamperes (mA) in about six hours. Since that’s about how much time you will be producing energy (in the summer) that is about all you’ll be able to do with such a small system.

Some of the information on that Phil Fear website (which, by the way is about ten years old) is informative but not completely true. For example, Fears says:

“These can be stand-alone systems, such as are currently in use to power entire hospitals in Zaire …”

I believe the “hospital” Fears is talking about is actually a small clinic, which has two DC fluorescent light fixtures, a DC fan, and a DC refrigerator/freezer used to store vaccines; and it’s in Gabon, not Zaire.

And just that small load, when we cranked in the engineering safety factor for cloudy days and extra batteries, spec’ed out at 12 Solavolt International MSVM 40-Watt PV modules (as opposed to one 5-Watt module) and 24 105-AH deep-cycle batteries (as opposed to just one).

The bottom line is that PV is reliable and silent, but, except for niche applications, it’s simply not cost-effective for most of us.

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jun 4 2004, 04:23 AM
Thanks for clarifying that Off. I'm not an electrician and what little I do know has been self taught. Is there any recommendations that you could make for a house hold system for electricity so that people can 'get off the grid' and not have to rely on utility companies? Preferably solar, wind or other renewable source. It also has to be either affordable or easily built for those of us with limited incomes.

Posted by: Off_the_Street Jun 4 2004, 07:18 AM
Laughing Wolf says: “Is there any recommendations that you could make for a house hold system for electricity so that people can 'get off the grid' and not have to rely on utility companies? Preferably solar, wind or other renewable source. It also has to be either affordable or easily built for those of us with limited incomes.”

The short answer is “No”, and the long answer is “Maybe”.

If you want to replace your existing grid system with an alternative one for cost purposes, the answer is a no-brainer: Absolutely not.

The reason for this is that installing the PV modules, voltage conditioning equipment, storage batteries, support structures, wiring, etc. will cost you (assuming you have a 3br/2ba single-family-detached home with modern energy saving insulation, etc.) about $50 – 60k. If you live in an area where you don’t use air conditioning or space heating all that much (e.g., San Diego) you could drop about $10k from the estimated amount.

But either way, $50 thousand will buy a lot of grid power, and the utilities are a lot better than we are at managing and fixing the systems when they go on the fritz.

And, for a lot of engineering considerations I won’t go into, wind turbines are, for most people, a very poor approach to alternative energy.

Now if you want to replace your existing grid system with an alternative one for preparedness purposes, the answer is a bit harder: Probably so, but it doesn’t matter.

Think about it: There are two reasons you would want to supplant your grid power with alternative energy: short-term ones, which means a big storm knocks out all power for a week; and long-term ones, which means the entire infrastructure collapses and the grid is never coming back.

But the deciding factor is not electricity, even though that’s what we’re talking about; it’s water. If you cannot get a short-term or long-term supply of potable water to your home, you and your family will die. Period.

So if you don’t have a well on your property, then your response to a short-term breakdown (like, say a week or two) is to store your water in a couple of waterbed mattresses (changed every couple of months). Electrical needs will be met by eating pre-cooked food out of cans (using your back-up non-electric can-opener, of course) using some low-wattage lights, a lot of batteries, and maybe a small gasoline genset.

Your response to a long-term breakdown (like, say six months or more) is to leave your house and find a place where you CAN get water. In either of these cases, a grid-power replacement scheme doesn’t make any economic or engineering sense.

If you do have a well on your property, then the VERY FIRST THING you should do is to arrange for an alternate energy source for your well-pump. There are calculations which enable you to figure out exactly how much power you’d need, taking into consideration the total dynamic head of your well, the desired flow-rate in gallons per minute, storage considerations, how big your garden will be, days of solar autonomy, and an engineering safety factor. If you have a well like that, let me know the details, and I will show you how to design a system; otherwise, it’s probably not worth going into.

There is one case of where having electricity for even short-term outages is necessary, and that’s if you’re medically dependent on something like insulin that must remain refrigerated. However, for short-term use (a couple of weeks) a propane-burning RV refrigerator/freezer is a lot more cost-effective than a high-efficiency, low-wattage DC refrigerator/freezer and the PV system to run it.

Sorry to go on and on like this, but like most alternative energy questions, there simply are no easy answers!

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jun 4 2004, 10:59 AM
No worries Off, I'd rather have a long but complete answer than a short but misleading one esecially if it is a deciding factor on wether or not to start a project expected to cost $5000 and actually runs 10 times that much. I'd like to quit the dependance on the utility companies but do not have 50k to spare at the moment. I think I left it in my other pants. rolleyes.gif

What about smaller generators that can be modified to run on feuls other than gasoline or deisel? If a complete infrastructure collapse happens then would a smaller generator using available bio-feul be worth the effort to peice together for temporary use in water pumping, refrigeration of perishables and battery charging?

Posted by: Guest Jun 4 2004, 11:38 AM
Has it occurred to anyone that packing and running is not the best option? There is no way I could carry a backpack with the recommeneded load. The thing would weigh more than I do! That would probably be true for most of us, especially if we have children.

Second, who will defend the home? The best thing to do is to make as much preparation right where you live. It is from this vantage point that defense is made better. A rooftop makes a good look-out point from where the enemy can be sighted. Contact with other freedom fighters could be made by CB radio. If everybody just stayed home, the enemy would be hard-pressed to defeat us! I'm not saying there couldn't be excursions, but wives and children must be prepared as well. What about aging parents?

This cut 'n run scenario doesn't set too well with me. Abandoning women and children, and the aged sounds like cowardice. Stand and fight! General chaos will bring out the worst of the population. Looters, rapists, and what have you. Shoot 'em!

Besides, if you cut 'n run, you will be scattered and then easy pickins. No way to win a war.

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jun 4 2004, 11:53 AM
Thank you for your input Guest. A very valid point made.

Has it occurred to anyone that packing and running is not the best option?

The majority of the preperations that have been listed to this thread are for staying put in a survivable zone. What would you do if you were in a nuke fall out area though? Put the plastic sheets up on the windows with duct tape? There are times when getting out of Dodge is the only option available for continued survival. Thus we plan for as many contingencies as we can. Personally my gimpy old carcass would prefer to stay put instead of trekking cross country but if it has to be done then there are plans that should be in place for such a situation.

Abandoning women and children, and the aged sounds like cowardice.

No where was it mentioned that abandoning anyone was an option provided they are still breathing. I certainly would not condone it and very few of those that I know well would do so. The few who would I do not care much to associate with and keep my interactions with them to a minimum.

Contact with other freedom fighters could be made by CB radio.

A very good point. Communication with like minded individuals is an important part of any option wether it's a bug-out or staying put. Battery powered CB and Ham radios are an extremely important part of any survival kit so that you can get news from others and communicate problems or places where you can get help.

If everybody just stayed home, the enemy would be hard-pressed to defeat us!

There is occasionally a flaw with this. Sometimes being seperated by staying put means that the enemy can pick you off one at a time. On occasions such as round up of dissidents you need help from as many as you can get to put a halt to such an activity and possibly rescue captured comrades.

There is no such thing as a single perfect plan for all occasions. Much of what could happen will cause us to assess the situations and best possible responses as we go along. There are times when it's best to sit tight and times when it's best to bug-out. There are times when it's best to stand and fight and others when it's best to let the fight slide by and retreat to a safer position. There are as many possible reactions as there are situations and even within the same situation there are times when a different response would be better advised then doing the predictable.

You've made many excellent points Guest and we thank you for your imput. Please continue to share with us your ideas and thoughts.

Posted by: BJ Jun 4 2004, 12:59 PM
Laughing Wolf, I am the Guest who made the post saying that to cut 'n run didn't set too well with me. I apologize for not identifying myself. Too much mental occupation going on here! We need to know what to do immediately in case of attack.

A couple of years ago, I visited Barefoot's World website (extensive!). He gave advice on what to do in case of nuclear fallout or chemical attack. If memory serves me right, he said that in case of a nuclear explosion, the blast would send the material upward so that staying close to the ground and running the opposite direction of the wind would be the thing to do. Get as far away as possible from the site. Of course, this only applies if the bomb didn't fall on top of your head. He said that nuclear material sinks to the bottom of water recepticals so that you can skim off the top the clean water.

In case of chemical attack, the first thing to do is to cover the nose and as much skin as possible. Get as far away from the area as soon as possible, then wash thoroughly.

I tried again to find the advice on his site, but cannot! Perhaps he took it down. If any can find it, be kind enough to cut 'n paste his good advice. Having been in the service, he knows wherein he speaks. This stuff should have been taught in the schools!

You asked for more thoughts. The above was one. Would covering electronics with plastic sheets save them not only from a nuclear attack, but also the dust from an incoming cloud such as Aussie Bloke disclosed?

Sometimes this seems overwhelming! So much preparing and wondering if it's enough. There are others to think about as well. There are only two weeks left, if that.


Posted by: Vianova Jun 4 2004, 01:11 PM
Please specify where to find ,and what kind of
" clear hard plastic water " containers.
I found none.
there were Culligan bottles {large}, and I found huge metal water sysytems called Flotec, VERY HEAVY, not very protable, but looked good for on site storage.

Posted by: Off_the_Street Jun 4 2004, 01:20 PM
Laughing Wolf says: "I think I left it in my other pants."

Hey, no problem, bro, I'm always ready to help. The check’s in the mail.

"What about smaller generators that can be modified to run on fuels other than gasoline or diesel? If a complete infrastructure collapse happens then would a smaller generator using available bio-fuel be worth the effort to piece together for temporary use in water pumping, refrigeration of perishables and battery charging?"

One of the things that we need to think about when we're doing contingency plans is that a scenario change, even a small one, can cause a lot of your design work to change, too. Sometimes we have to come up with several scenarios, figure out how you would ameliorate the problems with those scenarios, and then prioritize them.

You ask if a smaller genset “…using available bio-fuel be worth the effort to piece together for temporary use…” My initial reaction is no, it wouldn’t. If you’re looking at a temporary situation, I’d just go with a gasoline genset and a 55-gal drum of gasoline. Why bother to jury-rig something, if it’s for just a short time? If you use a bio-fuel (I assume we’re talking ethanol here), you’d need to change your nonmetallic fuel lines and gaskets, since often gasoline eats what alcohol doesn’t and vice versa. Also, since the heat of combustion for ethanol is less than that of gasoline, you might find it necessary to prime your carburetor with MTBE (ether) prior to starting it.

And, even if you have the raw material (say, sugar beets) for your ethanol-production and a solar still for processing it (which, by the way, is not all that difficult to make) you would have a lot of effort and a very stinky back yard as you grew the beets, harvested them, and fermented the mash.

If you have to go with a genset, you gotta realize it has a couple of problems: (1) it’s noisy, which might not be a sound tactical approach during “interesting” times; and (2) it has a lot of moving parts, which means – to an engineer, anyway – a whole bunch of things that can break, usually at the most inopportune time.

Adding to the inherent complexity of a genset by jury-rigging it to burn a bio-fuel – and then being responsible for producing that bio-fuel, in my opinion, makes a bad situation worse.

But if you believe you need a genset for short-term use, I’d buy a Honda EN2500 (or equivalent) genset. That baby’s reliable, semi-quiet (about 75dB), puts out 2.5kW, provides both AC and DC at the same time, and costs about $800. Three gallons of gas will operate it for about ten hours, so your cost is about 65 cents an hour.

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jun 4 2004, 01:24 PM
No worries about the identity issues BJ. The response would have been the same regardless of who it was that posted that message.

I previously had Barefoot's site bookmarked but lost many of my links a ways back during a comp crash. Sorta forgot about it in the aftermath. Thanks for refreshing my memory and providing that link. I agree that it is an excellent resource site and he provides a wide variety of great advise and information. I have it book marked and will look over it asap to try and find the information that could help us.

Posted by: Off_the_Street Jun 4 2004, 01:25 PM
BJ, an excellent book for dealing with fallout of nuclear weapons is "Pulling Through" by Dean C. Ing.

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jun 4 2004, 02:01 PM

This site has a variety of affordable and portable water filters which are easy to use and easy to maintain. Rugged construction for a long use life. You can get some ideas from them as to what to look for.

THis site has alot of info about what you need to know to clean water as well as some excellent systems for sale.

The above e-store has a wide example of decent canteens and water bottles that are rugged and useful. You can find most of these at military surplus stores, some antique and used items type of shops and other locations. For larger needs they also have 5 gallon carryable types. Coleman bottles, some Avon stuff, other assorted hard bottles are good also.

Here is another site that has a wide sampling of decent canteens and water storage bottles.

Part of what we must learn is to do without alot of the conveniences that we are used to such as water from the tap and a supermarket down the road.

Various survival guides such as an old boy scout manual are handy reference materials to help make the transitions smoother by providing appropriate knowledge as needed. Ideally you should already know how to survive in the woods without any modern amenities but if you don't then a couple of reference books can make the difference between life and death.

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jun 4 2004, 02:08 PM
Thanks for the honest evaluation Off. If I'm going to be fermenting mash in the back yard though it's going to be for umm... medicinal purposes. Yeah, that's it, medicinal purposes. wink.gif

We have a genset for short term use. I was just wondering about alternative energy sources for it as well as the house. I'm quite familiar with Murphy's Law and other assorted recipies for interesting events with mechanical items.

I"ll eventually come up with a renewable energy source that won't cost me a fortune to put in place. Haven't given up on that.

Posted by: BJ Jun 4 2004, 03:45 PM
Off_the_street, thanks for the title of the book, "Pulling Through" by Dean C. Ing. The subject of surviving a nuclear or chemical attack is just as important as learning to survive the wilderness!

This is a good thread in that we are sharing thoughts and ideas. Shopping for preparations in the advent of Y2K, I found some water containers in hard plastic...1 gal. and 5 gal. containers. Foil sheets for protection, one of those cooler bags for an emergency medical kit (FULL now), and other items of use at a sporting goods store, Academy. At the Family Dollar yesterday, I found 6 X 8 tarps for $2 each, so got 2.

I would advise getting plenty of large and medium size garbage bags because the price is going up! Save the plastic store bags as they can be used to line a small waste basket for a child's potty. And don't be shy in buying lots of toilet paper! Consider yourselves without it.

One more thing. During Y2K, I bought a locking gas cap. How much more is it needed now that gas is so much more expensive? Your gas will be more in demand than food. People need to stay mobile.

That's it for this sitting. BTW, Laughing Wolf, I bought some Colloidal Silver from you years ago, like on May 13, 2000! Still have the receipt and your Incurables Book. Talked for some time with you over the phone.


Posted by: LaughingWolf Jun 4 2004, 03:53 PM
BTW, Laughing Wolf, I bought some Colloidal Silver from you years ago, like on May 13, 2000! Still have the receipt and your Incurables Book. Talked for some time with you over the phone.

BJ, I think you may have me confused with some one else. I wasn't selling anything in May of 2000 much less Colloidal Silver. I was just getting into the swing of alternative health care at that time and barely knew what CS was.

Posted by: BJ Jun 4 2004, 04:02 PM
Laughing Wolf, are there 2 of you? If you still live in Idaho, then you are the same.


Posted by: Talon Jun 4 2004, 04:22 PM
Hi BJ,

LW and I are not in Idaho and have never been there. So, I guess there must be two. I remember a year or so ago that we tried to register and it was already taken. Is that where you bought CS from?

Posted by: BJ Jun 4 2004, 04:56 PM
Hi, Talon! Thanks for replying! I was getting confused here. Could there be 2 LWs? It seems there are. The website I have is not the same one you gave here. It must have been changed. He gave a name Sakara in his book, "The Cure for the Incurables...for Everyone!" I think she was/is his wife.

I guess we can chalk this up to a coincidence! Interesting, though.


Posted by: Survivalist Jun 4 2004, 05:10 PM

Posted by: Off_the_Street Jun 4 2004, 06:08 PM
"...I found some water containers in hard plastic...1 gal. and 5 gal. containers."

The best kind of containers to get are the polycarbonate ones; you can tell them by the code on the bottom (a "7" in an inverted triangle). Polycarbonate jugs are almost impervious to UV degradation, unlike the translucent jugs you buy water in.

However, one note of caution: some 5-gallon polycarbonate jugs tested by Consumers Union leached bisphenol-A into water--from 0.5 ppb to 11 ppb. Any health effects would be most likely to occur in developing fetuses, judging from animal research.

Posted by: Vianova Jun 6 2004, 12:42 AM
I think that Tuna in water OR oil is fine, that tuna wont last long enough to matter. ..The water based Tuna is less messy.
Go for the best Tuna , solid white.
There is also canned turkey that is pretty good.
Better have a canpoener as well.

It was a good point about "not" running to the hills , and taking care of home base.

I look at it as a home base supply , and set-up, and an evacuational grab bag that is supplied by the more functional home site preparedness.,
if it comes to that.

Living on the coast predicates the possibility of tidal inundations from earthquake to tsunami.Thus the thought of WHERE to go , involves at least 1.5-2 hours to get up and over the mountains to 4000 feet and higher, though for very immediate altitudes there are a couple of local oceanside mountains that reach 3500feet.

The stocking of all kinds of lumber and construction material onsite is expensive , but a good idea, and all thevarious sized lumber, plywood, and nails, staples, tarps, screws, bolts, get used eventually anyways.It will come in handy in emergency repairs.Even the black asphalt roll wall papers or Tyvek make good wall covers as siding over plywood, or underfloors,roof cover, stapled or nailed, and dont sweat as much as plastics.

TOOLS,you cant have enough.Sawzalls dont run on propane, so good hand saws and axes are necessary.

I did find a nice triple post propane pole.,
that hooks up to the larger cylinders, and has ports and hoses that run 3 different things at once, lantern, stove, heat.
I purchased both interior and exterior heater attachments for propane.

The little lantern ignition bags are expensive.
Its all expensive.
I got large , but portable propane tanks in numbers full up in storage, and is not too hard to store considering the benefits of propanes longevity of cheap usage.
One can cook a lot of meals on 5 gallons of propane.
But then so can a pit fire, from wood debris..
Storing gasoline is a pain.
25 gallons takes up space , and you know how long your car will run on 25 gallons.
But it will still start up the chainsaw.

Also , a trail bicycle with storage rack might be a good idea to keep maintained and handy..

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jun 6 2004, 01:30 AM
Living on the coast predicates the possibility of tidal inundations from earthquake to tsunami.

In the case of a tsunami on the coast your not going to get much of a warning before you've gotta bug out. Probably won't survive the inundation.

A very good point about the hand tools such as saws and such. There won't be much in the way of electricity in an emergency so having that saw and that hammer will come in really handy. Screwdrivers, wrenches, pliers and such. A wide selection of tools should be on hand at all times anyways but most of you 'do it yourselfers' know that don't you.

Propane for heating and cooking would be a short term solution. A longer term solution for cooking and heating needs in your home would be a wood burning stove. You can always find dead fall in a wooded area and push comes to shove you can break out that axe and cut down a tree.

Pedal power. A good sturdy bike would also be handy. Saddle bag type baskets in the back and a closable basket in the front would be excellent additions so that you can have a carrying capacity that doesn't rely on a back pack.

Diesel feul is alot easier and safer to store than gasoline. If you are going to store feul for an auto then Diesel is the way to go. For chain saws though I would recommend storing your feul with an additive and storing it in 2 gallon containers. Easier to handle and if one breaches your not out that much fuel.

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jun 6 2004, 01:39 AM

Welcome to Candle Making Techniques. is a community site that offers candle making instructions and project ideas. After perusing through some of the instructions, you may also wish to visit our ever-growing candle making message boards where you will find over 100,000 quality posts from fellow candle makers of all skill levels.

This site is constantly being expanded. You may wish to bookmark this page (Ctrl+D) and check back often to find new candle making ideas.

Enjoy your visit!


This is perhaps the best and most complete site I've seen on the web for how to on making your own candles. They have a forum with even more tips and you can ask questions if things don't go quite right.

Posted by: Talon Jun 6 2004, 07:18 AM

Posted by: BJ Jun 6 2004, 07:28 AM
The easiest way to make a candle is to buy a box of parifin wax. The box should contain two blocks of wax. Heat one side of each enough for a string of twine to run the length of the blocks. After the twine is in place, put the blocks together and you have a good-sized candle. Cheap and quick. Had to do this once.


Posted by: Talon Jun 6 2004, 07:42 AM
Solar cooking and lots of other goodies.

Posted by: Vianova Jun 7 2004, 10:14 AM
I hate wood stoves and wood smoke,
but you are absolutely correct,
when the propane runs out,
that wood stove comes in real handy.
I have always avoided the wood stove,
wood smoke particulate matter is the WORST form of air pollution , aside from nuclear isotopes, and recombinates with EVERY other toxin in the air.

Fire it up!
I want to be warm and eat in the apocalyptic bore.

Posted by: Vianova Jun 7 2004, 04:46 PM
Dont forget antibiotics.
Natural best are Grapefruitseed Extract in tablet form called Nutribiotic,
or Grapeseed extract,all oregano oil, pau d arco, echinacea,
etc.Garlic tablets.Vitamins.

Levaquin,Doxycycline, Zithromax,Bactrin{sulpha}, Augmentin

Always grab whatever left over antibiotics there are anywhere,
KNOW what they are, most pills do not have names on them,
Keep them on hand, sealed and stored in the fridge, they will last a long time.

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jun 17 2004, 07:49 PM
Excellent points about the antibiotics Vi. Natural would be best but anything will help in an emergency. Raw garlic for when times are tough, grind it up and mix it with a strong flavored drink or eat it raw if you can stomach it. Colloidal silver is also an excellent antibiotic and anti bacterial. Easy to make if you have some pure silver and a bit of electricity to play around with. Buying it from the health food store now and putting a couple of drops in each gallon of water you have is also a great way to purify the water after filtering out as much as you can.

Posted by: Vianova Jun 17 2004, 09:55 PM
Colloidal silver
Buying it from the health food store now and putting a couple of drops in each gallon of water you have is also a great way to purify the water after filtering out as much as you can."

I never thought of that.
Not a bad idea.
I never forget how that Katadyne water filter is a silver impregnated ceramic core,
to retard bacterial growth.
there was some recent stuff posted on colloidal gold as well. over on the chemtrail thread, on page 7 , I think , by JEP.

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jul 12 2004, 09:47 AM

*Tanning Leather*
By Dragoona

If you hunt, raise your own animals or plan to do either in the future, you can make your own leather. There are a number of ways to tan leather and furs. Some are easier than others, like buying a tanning kit from Tandy or the Leather Factory. These contain pre-measured chemicals and instructions for using them. I am not going to cover the use of kits, but the old ways of tanning your hides.


Making leather is a time consuming and smelly process. The first thing you need to do is to prepare your hides for tanning. The hides can be from cattle, sheep, goats, pigs, horses and deer, elk or antelope. Actually if it can be skinned it can be tanned.

After the animal has been killed and the skin is carefully removed, the first job is to remove any bits and pieces of meat and fat. To do this the skin is soaked and pounded, then placed over a wooden beam and scraped with a dull knife. Take care not to tear the skins.

The hair and outer part of the skin is then removed by rubbing urine, quicklime or wood ash into the wet surface. This will loosen the hair and allow it to be scraped off.

After the hair has been scraped off, you need to prevent the hide from stiffening or rotting. There are several methods that can be used. You could rub it with an oily substance like tallow (animal fat,) egg yolk or “dubbin” (a mixture of fish oil and tallow. It can also be treated by rubbing salt, brain or potash alum into the surface to produce a very pale leather. Saving urine to use at this time will make an almost white hide. Any of these methods are quick and easy but if the leather gets wet, the oils or minerals would be washed out and the leather would rot. So it is time to tan the leather.

Tannin Tanning

The best way to tan the leather is by using a chemical called tannin. (Gross time) To do this the hide is rubbed with dung (which allows the tannin to penetrate the leather.) This is called bating. The bating process is remarkable one from the properties it imparts to the hide. The dung of carnivores, especially dogs is used as it contains an enzyme that digests collagen, which is an elastic component of the hide.

Prior to bating the hide is springy and “lively,” rather like having a mind of its own. After bating it is quite relaxed and will lay flat. It’s difficult to describe but easy to recognize when the hide is compared before and after bating. The dung is washed from the hide after bating, it has done its job and there is no reason to keep such a smelly component of the leather making process.

Now you need a clay-lined pit with a log or pole in it. The hide is hung over the pole and soaked in a mixture of water and crushed oak bark. This is what produces the tannin. Soak the hide for a couple of days, then remove it and spread it out to dry. This leather can be carved, tooled or left plain. It can be used to make shoes, knife sheaths, holsters or bags.

Brain Tanning

This is a very primitive method of tanning leather. Oddly enough each animal has just enough brains to tan its own hide. Brain tanning produces a beautiful buckskin and it does require a bit of work to produce it.

After removing the hide from the beastie, stretch the hide out by laying it on the ground flesh-side up. Punch wooden stakes at intervals around the edges and drive them into the ground. You want the stakes close to the edge but not so close that the skin tears. It will all depend on the animal and the thickness of the hide. Don’t stretch the hide beyond its original size. You don’t want to stretch the hide, just keep it from shrinking.

Now you need to flesh it. This will be easier if you are careful while skinning the animal and not let a lot of meat or fat on the hide. You can use a stone, a bone flesher or the dull knife from above. Once again, be careful to not cut or tear the skin.

Scrap the skin to get every bit of meat or fat off, this includes the tiny veins that cling to the surface of the skin. Any fat or meat left on the hide will cause you misery later. Now that the fleshing is done it’s time to decide if you are going to make buckskin or a fur.


Flip the hide over so that the hair side is up. The idea at this stage is to remove the hair as completely and easily as you can. You can mix up a slurry of wood ashes and water and rub it into the hide well. Cover every square inch then let it set until the hair starts coming loose when you pull on it. It can take a couple of days for heavier hides.

If you don’t want to wait that long you can use a sharp knife and scrape/shave the hair off. You may have to scrape the hide even if you used the water/ash method. Scrape the entire hide, when you do this it will also scrape off the epidermis layer. This is important as it allows you to soften the hide later.


Simply omit the dehairing process and move to the next step.

It’s stinky time

The tanning process breaks down the glycerin and loosens the fibers of the skin. The agent used in this method id found in the brain of the animal that provided the hide/fur.

Take the brains and cook them in a little water. Squish and squeeze them with your hands (wear gloves) to mash it well. When the brain soup is almost to hot for you to touch, rub it into the hide using your hands and smooth round stones that have been heated. Start by rubbing the mixture into the skin side of the hide and then into the hair side (skip this side if you are making a fur.) Use all of the mixture including any “broth” left in the pot. Leave the hide alone and out of the sun for 6 to 8 hours before continuing.

After the brains have soaked into the hide for 6 to 8 hours, submerge the hide in water overnight. You want it to be completely saturated and pliable. While it is soaking, you can prepare your “graining” tools. There are two types needed. The first is a wooden wedge shaped tool, with or without a handle. The other is simply a sick about two inches in diameter. The end of the stick is carved into a smooth, blunt, rounded point.

Restake the hide after it has soaked and use the wedge shaped grainer to “ooze” the water out of the hide. Do this until you can’t get any more water out of the skin.

Now take the blunt stick grainer and work every inch of the hide. The object is to stretch and loosen every inch of the hide while it is drying. If you stop before it is completely dry it will become stiff! When the hide seems dry, unstake it.

You can now cut away the edges with the stake holes, since there may be areas you couldn’t scrape well.

Loop the hide through a rope loop or over a branch tied between two trees and pull it back and forth. This will stretch the hide and the heat/friction will dry the hide some more while breaking up the grain farther. When you are done, use a smooth stone to rub any imperfect areas.

Note: If you are making a fur be careful and do not run the fur side over the branch or through the rope loop, if you do you will ruin it!

The hide is now complete. However it will become stiff again if it gets wet. To prevent this, make a tripod of sticks and drape the hide over a small smudge fire. You want to smoke the hide until it becomes a nice buckskin color. Turn it over as necessary for the smoke to penetrate all parts.

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jul 12 2004, 09:52 AM

A good site for making your own shoes of a variety of types.

Posted by: BJ Jul 12 2004, 04:24 PM
That's quite a site, LaughingWolf. Why wait for an emergency? Making your own would save big bucks! In a time of want, the knowledge would be priceless.

Thanks! I've e-mailed the URL to everyone in the address book. Nice to know.


Posted by: Vianova Jul 12 2004, 10:51 PM
I mentioned this earlier,
if you have the storage capacity,
construction supplies might come in real handy.
In particular 1/2 inch plywood, and studs.

Plywood is good for window covers in hurricane force storms etc,
or for quick shelter building in post catastrophe or emergency scenarios.

COST of plywood has skyrocketed due to the Iraqi war , as it was all shipped there.
Also good to have , is plywood paper,
asphalt rolls of the thin roofing felt, or exterior wall paper.
These are very good at keeping the emergency wood structures drier,
by being a cheap easy to apply , exterior wall covering.
A staple gun is a handy item as well !
For the asphalt rolls, or tarp or plastic .

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jul 24 2004, 12:08 PM

This is one of the better survival based web sites that I've seen. It covers different areas such as shelters, psychology, medicinal herbs, food gathering and preparing along with a host of other topics.

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jul 24 2004, 12:22 PM



Another excellent site with alot of information to digest about wilderness survival and hiking tips.

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jul 24 2004, 12:28 PM

Your Graphical On-Line Guide to Metalworking


A good starter site for the subject of blacksmithing. Pictures of the different tools of the trade along with some explanation of how they are made and used.

Posted by: Vianova Jul 25 2004, 11:25 AM
I quickly scanned the new links you put up !
And will do a better job soon when time allows.


In times of apocalyptic planetray breakdown
or general chaos,
causing isolative survival,
all this info cannot be retrieved by electronics-computers-
saved info on discs etc.



This will allow one to have acces to info , that may be lost on the net , when it goes down...

Posted by: Talon Jul 25 2004, 01:58 PM
I did a quick dig through the web for a few sites with survival info for the people who can't afford or can't find old army or boy scout survival guides. Printing out the info is a good point Vi considering the case of a catastrophic break down.

As to the black smithing site, that's a craft that takes practice as well as learning but reference books are helpful. What I found on the web is a starter guide to give you an idea of what the craft is about. Unless your near a decent source of metals or migrating quickly due to catastrophies then it's fairly useless. If your staying put or have reached your destination and have a source of metals then it becomes an important trade.

* This is actually LW. I forgot to see who was signed in before posting. *

Posted by: LaughingWolf Jul 26 2004, 08:29 AM

The Apprentice Armorer's Illustrated Handbook For Making Mail
A Clear Systematic Guide for the Do-It-Yourselfer

For those interested in learning more about armour in general or in how to construct armour, we offer the following selection of links to help in their research. Links are listed in alphabetical order on this page according to subcategories.


A little something for you do it yourselfers and SCA members. Have fun making your own period authentic armor.

Posted by: Vianova Jul 26 2004, 09:18 AM
What are the bullet proof jackets?
Is it Kevlar...

Under water, Kevlar is 20 times stronger than steel.

Police wear bulletproof vests made of Kevlar.

Windsurfing sails that can withstand the force of 60 mph winds and don't rip easily are made of Kevlar.
I suppose one could
even make bulletproof bicycle tires from Kevlar ® if one felt the need. ...
Kevlar. poly(p-phenyleneterephtalamide). Kevlar is used to make bullet
proof vests, trampolenes, and tennis rackets

Posted by: Wahya Jul 28 2004, 04:48 PM
I wonder if kevlar would be good material to make bow strings... ph34r.gif

Posted by: Vianova Aug 10 2004, 10:34 AM
This came up on GLP,
survival shelters for the rich ?......

Shelter Usage Shelter
Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Forest Fires SP6
Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Forest Fires
Limited Nuclear, Biological, Chemical Warfare
3 - 5 miles from ground zero, 1MT SP6-NBC
Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Forest Fires
Biological, Chemical Warfare, Fallout and Blast
Protection 1.4 miles from ground zero 1 MT P6
Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Forest Fires
Biological, Chemical Warfare, Fallout and Blast
Protection 0.85 miles from ground zero 1 MT P10
Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Forest Fires
Biological, Chemical Warfare, Fallout and Blast
Protection 0.85 miles from ground zero 1 MT CAT25

I will take a CAT25 to go please.........

Posted by: Gladariel Oct 1 2004, 10:24 AM
There are a lot of ppeople that think they are prepared for any disaster,but in reality we are not as prepared as we should. I dont't think a lot of people even think about it until it's too late. I live in the mid-west. I have mainly tornadoes to worry about with the exception of a chemical depot that has the lovely VX gas stored in it. other than that I just let my fate rest with GOD. They always say when it's your time you will not escape.

Posted by: Blackbetty Oct 2 2004, 08:28 AM

What a great thread thanks..will check out all the links in greater detail when I have more time.

One thing I have been doing for twelve months or more is all info that I think may be needed in a time of printed off and put into my survival if the net ever goes down or the computer just won't work...I have all the info I need in a paper file....printed double copies of everything and gave one to my cousin for her birthday...she thought it was she doesn't have a computer to access the info..

Peace bb clapping.gif

Posted by: Vianova Oct 2 2004, 09:01 AM
As I mentioned earlier,
copying to paper in multiple backup advantage,
is a smart idea,
as computers go down and much info is lost.
The best backup however is
study and memory of essentials in emergency survival.
Then actual applied practice ...
remember those EQ drills in grade school,
or bombing drills in TV documentaries of WW2 ?

One thing to keep in perspective during

is where you run for protection.
Makani Kea posted a great thread on this
and the rule was called
something like the "triangular" system
It clearly stated that under doorways , arches, tables etc
were the worst places ,
but lieing next to an object that had some structural integrity ,
seemed to create a "triangular space" of survivable inundation by burial.
This has been evidenced in many EQ survivors being dug up.
I have large heavy strong furniture here, and if lieing next to one on the floor ,
one cansee how collapse of roof and second story would still not "crush" the furniture,
but actually the large pieces of furniture would provide support feature to collapsing structure., leaving periimeter floor space of narrow survivability.
Iwill search for the documents on the net since GLP archives are history.
Or if Makani is here, maybe she has the info.

One other aspect of emergency planning obviously is weaponry.
But weaponry is only good if you have the guts to pull the trigger.
Psychological preparation
for possible use of weapons in defense/offense
is something to consider.
The opponent that wishes to steal from or murder you,
has intent,
one must be prepared to recognize dangerous individuals,
or even the slick talkers,
they strike quick at the turned back,
So lay down personal protection rules of engagement,
and give fair warning if necessary or possible.
The "invading opponent" sometimes has the "smiling face"
beware , and wear armaments.
Gun safety's are bullshit,
lock and load,
pull the trigger.
Prepare psychologically for possible combat or defense scenarios.
But use prudence and common sense.
But also be prepared to


When you display distinct threat and power and Intent to Defend with extreme prejudice,
invaders think twice and go on to easier pickings.
KNOW your neighbors.Good and Bad.
There was one neighbor here,
that I may have had to shoot immediately.
And then bury his fuckhead ass down in the gully.
Or cremate the clown.
Now who wants to mess with me ?
See what I mean ?
But I forced the clown out of the neighborhood anyways thru legal pressures.
I would be the first he would shoot as well.
Think about that.
Roving gangs of looters and marauders
are real,
look at the Florida hurricanes or
periods of social unrest in cities.
Organize with
TRUSTED neighbors
for neighborhood defense.

Posted by: Hoss Oct 5 2004, 02:52 AM
Iwill search for the documents on the net since GLP archives are history.

Hi All, lil ol ME here.
Glp, please clarify, I was unaware that we were that good,
Las tome i looked i had 133MB, of info in the survival folder & 123MB in the solar folder
Hoss bouncefire.gif
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Posted by: Thessa Oct 5 2004, 04:18 AM
I already loved the wayback machine... now I also love the “Cached” from Google”. Lots of GLP threads can be accessed using the “Cached” feature instead of the ususal link.

Thanks Vianova, I never read it before.

I guess this is what you were talking about, well not exactly the original thread of Makani but the “Triangle of Life”




Riding out Ivan

Anonymous Coward
7:28 pm EDT

Makani Kea´s thread- Triangle of Life
this is for earthquakes, but if something is falling on you, like the roof...use it!EXTRACT FROM DOUG COPP´S ARTICLE ON THE "TRIANGLE OF LIFE", Edited by Larry Linn for MAA Safety Committee brief on 4/13/04.

My name is Doug Copp. I am the Rescue Chief and Disaster Manager of The American Rescue Team International (ARTI), the world´s most experienced rescue team. The information in this article will save lives in an earthquake.

I have crawled inside 875 collapsed buildings, worked with rescue teams from 60 countries, founded rescue teams in several countries, and I am a member of many rescue teams from many countries. I was the United Nations expert in Disaster Mitigation(UNX051 -UNIENET) for two years. I haveworked at every major disaster in the world since 1985, except for simultaneous disasters.

In 1996 we made a film which proved my survival methodology to be correct. The Turkish Federal Government, City of Istanbul, University of Istanbul, Case Productions and ARTI cooperated to film this practical, scientific test. We collapsed a school and a home with 20 mannequins inside. Ten mannequins did "duck and cover," and ten mannequins I used in my "triangle of life" survival method. After the simulated earthquake collapse we crawled through the rubble and entered the building to film and document the results. The film, in which I practiced my survival techniques under directly observable, scientific conditions, relevant to building collapse, showed there would have been zero percent survival for those doing duck and cover. There would likely have been 100 percent survivability for people using my method of the "triangle of life." This film has been seen by millions of viewers on television in Turkey and the rest of Europe, and it was seen in the USA, Canada and Latin America on the TV program Real TV.

The first building I ever crawled inside of was a school in Mexico City during the 1985 earthquake. Every child was under their desk. Every child was crushed to the thickness of their bones. They could have survived by lying down next to their desks in the aisles. It was obscene, unnecessary and I wondered why the children were not in the aisles. I didn´t at the time know that the children were told to hide under something.

Simply stated, when buildings collapse, the weight of the ceilings falling upon the objects or furniture inside crushes these objects, leaving a space or void next to them. This space is what I call the "triangle of life". The larger the object, the stronger, the less it will compact. The less the object compacts, the larger the void, the greater the probability that the person who is using this void for safety will not be injured. The next time you watch collapsed buildings, on television, count the "triangles" you see formed. They are everywhere. It is the most common shape, you will see, in a collapsed building. They are everywhere.

I trained the Fire Department of Trujillo (population 750,000) in how to survive, take care of their families, and to rescue others in earthquakes.

The chief of rescue in the Trujillo Fire Department is a professor at Trujillo University. He accompanied me everywhere. He gave personal testimony: "My name is Roberto Rosales. I am Chief of Rescue in
Trujillo. When I was 11 years old, I was trapped inside of a collapsed building.

My entrapment occurred during the earthquake of 1972 that killed 70,000 people. I survived in the "triangle of life" that existed next to my brother´s motorcycle. My friends who got under the bed and under desks were crushed to death [he gives more details, names, addresses etc.]... I am the living example of the "triangle of life". My dead friends are the example of "duck and cover".


1) Everyone who simply "ducks and covers" WHEN BUILDINGS COLLAPSE is crushed to death -- Every time, without exception. People who get under objects, like desks or cars, are always crushed.

2) Cats, dogs and babies all naturally often curl up in the fetal position. You should too in an earthquake. It is a natural safety/ survival instinct. You can survive in a smaller void. Get next to an object, next to a sofa,next to a large bulky object that will compress slightly but leave a void next to it.

3) Wooden buildings are the safest type of construction to be in during an earthquake. The reason is simple: the wood is flexible and moves with the force of the earthquake. If the wooden building does collapse,large survival voids are created. Also, the wooden building has less concentrated, crushing weight.

Brick buildings will break into individual bricks. Bricks will cause many injuries but less squashed bodies than concrete slabs.

4) If you are in bed during the night and an earthquake occurs, simply roll off the bed. A safe void will exist around the bed. Hotels can achieve a much greater survival rate in earthquakes, simply by posting a sign on the back of the door of every room, telling occupants to lie down on the floor, next to the bottom of the bed during an earthquake.

5) If an earthquake happens while you are watching television and you cannot easily escape by getting out the door or window, then lie down and curl up in the fetal position next to a sofa, or large chair.

6) Everybody who gets under a doorway when buildings collapse is killed.

How? If you stand under a doorway and the doorjamb falls forward or backward you will be crushed by the ceiling above. If the door jam falls sideways you will be cut in half by the doorway. In either case, you will be killed!

7) Never go to the stairs. The stairs have a different "moment of frequency" (they swing separately from the main part of the building). The stairs and remainder of the building continuously bump into each other until structural failure of the stairs takes place. The people who get on stairs before they fail are chopped up by the stair treads. They are horribly mutilated. Even if the building doesn´t collapse, stay away from
the stairs. The stairs are a likely part of the building to be damaged.

Even if the stairs are not collapsed by the earthquake, they may collapse later when overloaded by screaming, fleeing people. They should always be checked for safety, even when the rest of the building is not damaged.

8) Get near the outer walls of buildings or outside of them if possible. It is much better to be near the outside of the building rather than the interior. The farther inside you are from the outside perimeter of the building the greater the probability that your escape route will be blocked.

9) People inside of their vehicles are crushed when the road above falls in an earthquake and crushes their vehicles; which is exactly what happened with the slabs between the decks of the Nimitz Freeway. The victims of the San Francisco earthquake all stayed inside of their vehicles. They were all killed. They could have easily survived by getting out and sitting or lying next to their vehicles, says the author.

Everyone killed would have survived if they had been able to get out of their cars and sit or lie next to them. All the crushed cars had voids 3 feet high next to them, except for the cars that had columns fall directly across them.

10) I discovered, while crawling inside of collapsed newspaper offices and other offices with a lot of paper, that paper does not compact. Large voids are found surrounding stacks of paper.

Posted by: Hoss Oct 5 2004, 04:41 AM
Hi All, lil ol' Me agin
Here a a few web addresses on survivalism .
If this is to big i'll understand SOB.
SURVIVAL STUFF$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex789?opendocument

Posted by: Deer Oct 5 2004, 03:42 PM

Finally the info I've been looking for...thanks so much everyone!!

I would add a couple of items to have for in-home use...I learned the hard way during the blackout 2003...

1. Wet-wipes...those little things come in so handy when water is in short supply. I keep at least half a dozen containers in my supplies. They provide an easy way to "wash" your hands, etc...without using water...especially when water supplies are tight. Containers of these can be purchased at the dollar store.

2. The kitchen clean-up versions of the wet-wipes...these can be used to clean up spills and other little messes without having to use water and towels. If there's no power to run laundry facilities, one can quickly soil cloth towels beyond usage. These can also be purchased at the dollar store.

I sure hope people will keep posting ideas on this thread!

In the event of an emergency, I would most likely have to shelter-in-place because I take care of elderly family members who have very limited mobility.... so I really appreciate ideas about what types of supplies to stock for folks like me (in my situation).

PLEASE keep them coming for me...

God Bless

Posted by: Hoss Oct 6 2004, 01:52 AM
Hi All.
As long as some-one gets something from the posted webb Addresses Makes the ime taken worth it, Ps. All those sites worked last time i looked. A couple of months ago.
Hoss the info Junkie bouncefire.gif
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Posted by: Hoss Oct 7 2004, 05:07 AM
Hi all, I forgot i had these or i should say where i put them.
Herbal and gardening stuff, not sure where i should put them.

HERB STUFF h/s h/s h/s
GARDENING oz oz oz oz oz oz oz
Learning is a process that never stops.
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Posted by: Die dulci fruere Oct 7 2004, 07:22 PM
First time I've read through this thread. What an assortment of information (hopefully, useless). Excellent! I believe everyone should read this and at least let the information provided fuel some mind games for them. We can never know which, if any, of the survival suggestions offered might be needed so should read them all and at least provide ourselves with those most likely to be needed (earthquake, massive riot, unusually severe storm, etc.), but not discount the horrendous (nuclear attack, hostile take over, etc.). Around Y2K, I think more people were thinking in terms of long term survival in a hostile environment than they are today. I don't think we can afford to dismiss this information as useless even though we can hope it is. Between living in the remoteness of the mountains and living in the city, the selections I've had to make are quite different. In the mountains my rifles were my main line of defense, while in the city it's a shotgun. Never worried about earthquakes in the mountains, but here on the west coast it is a concern. I'm too old and stove up to get into the rifleman series of posts, but as a young guy I would have been into it totally. The needed supplies are just as important regardless of the emergency. In the mountains we kept a modest (about two weeks worth) of rations, and now in earthquake country we keep just under that (should be more).

Something I might add to the 'when all “h-e double ell” breaks loose' part, is barter. Some of my work mates think gold is the way to go because paper money won't be worth anything. I think ammo will be worth much more than gold. Good clean freshly manufactured ammo will keep for many decades if kept cool and dry. I've heard that the best way to pack that away for decades is to put it in into a PVC sewer pipe, toss in some tea bags to keep it dry, seal it on both ends with caps and bury it. Of course you'd need some means of sawing open the container if needed, but a sharp saw is mentioned as an essential part of the survival pack.

Noticed one way back item that my personal experience shows to not be entirely accurate. Shooting .38's from a .357 mag handgun shouldn't cause any damage to the firearm. Not that I recommend doing it exclusively, but after a good cleaning the .357 should be fine. Trivial detail. I used to use a Model 66 (K frame S&W) .357 regularly for target practice with .38's, then switched to .357 loads for the field. Thousands of rounds and never a problem.

Might suggest that if you live in a state like California, where only the criminals are not detoured from buying guns on short notice, that you get one right now. If another wild riot hits and you need a firearm to protect yourself and your loved ones, and you don't have one, you will never get one in time to make a difference. The waiting period before you may take possession of a purchased firearm doesn't take a holiday. Unfortunately, I have to mention that if you do get one you'd best learn how to use it and keep it in a place where it can be secured against theft and curious little ones. They are the last line of defense though, so even if you have the rations to wait out a really major crisis, there is a great chance that you'll need to defend those rations and your family.

Posted by: Hoss Oct 8 2004, 01:56 AM

This Earthquake site is Indian, but there is a ton of general information in it
Hoss the info Junkie. I was looking at the time for infomation on Earthquake proofing buildings. And thia was the best i could find on construcuon??

The non-engineered buildings considered in this book are those which are spontaneously and informally constructed in various countries in the traditional manner without any or little intervention by qualified architects and engineers in their design. Such buildings involve field stone, fire brick, concrete blocks, adobe or rammed earth, wood or a combination of these traditional locally available materials in their construction. Cement and lime are sometimes used for the mortars. Reinforced concrete lintels and floor and roof slabs and beams are also being increasingly used. In some cases, use of reinforced concrete columns and beams is also made particularly for shopping centres and school buildings but here also a post-beam type simple concept is frequently adopted in a non-engineered manner without consideration of the stability of the system under horizontal seismic forces. This book aims at explaining the lessons learned from the seismic performance of such buildings during past earthquakes and the basic concepts involved in their aseismic design and construction, restoration and strengthening, and laying down guidelines for their safe planning and construction.
The safety of the non-engineered buildings from the fury of earthquakes is a subject of highest priority in view of the fact that in the moderate to severe seismic zones of the world more than 90 percent of the population is still living and working in such buildings, and that most losses of lives during earthquakes have occurred due to their collapse. The risk to life is further increasing due to rising population particularly in the developing countries, poverty of the people, scarcity of modern building materials, viz. cement and steel, lack of awareness and necessary skills. In view of these factors, the Committee felt that:
(a) revolutionary change in the construction pattern may not be feasible hence not practical;
(b) the use of local materials will continue to be made with only minimum amount of cement and steel where found absolutely necessary, and
© very simple modification in the traditional building systems need to be recommended which could be easily understood and adopted by 'the local artisans.
With the aim of immediate application of the recommendations, the Committee found it beneficial to include illustrative sketches for a variety of applications and even make, numerical recommendations which could be readily adopted in practice. Based on the principles enunciated and the guidelines given, the local engineers and architects should be able to work out suitable alternative details for the constructions in their seismic regions and localities. Such further work could also be taken up by the National Societies of earthquake engineering of the various countries.
The Committee was concerned about the lack of awareness regarding the availability of such simple solutions as contained in this book and their effectiveness in achieving Seismic safety as a preventive measure at minimum cost among the government authorities, policy makers, architects, engineers and builders as well as the common people. Such an awareness needs to be created through the mass media . to start with and then, in a more effective manner, through posters and pamphlets, workshops, training programs, exhibitions, experimental model constructions and the like. To find better and easier acceptance, such measures should be made an integral component of the development plans of the various countries so that these get incorporated in all future buildings to be constructed in the public as well as the private sectors.
The material included in the book should be found useful to people at various levels concerned with earthquake disaster mitigation through the construction of safe housing for and by the masses. For making this information more easily available to the people, the local governments, societies and institutions are encouraged to prepare its translations in the national and local languages. For this purpose no royalty is to be paid and only due acknowledgement is to be given to this book and the International Association for Earthquake Engineering.
The "Basic Concepts of Seismic Codes, Vol.1, Part It, Non- Engineered Construction" was first published by IAEE in 1980. The present volume is a revised and amplified version of the same
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Posted by: guest(nli) Oct 19 2004, 09:18 PM
Ran across an article worth reading in the past week or so where the writer was suggesting that regardless of who wins the election, we should be concerned about our ammo. The writer went on to say that the pressures on our elected officials to curb firearms would result in some horrendous tax on ammunition. Don't have a clue as to how accurate that journalist might be, but I will opine that having a good stash is always a good thing. In the crazy state where I live, if you're found with anything over a couple of hundred rounds that seems to make you a defacto terrorist, so you might want to keep that in mind if you are stocking up.

Posted by: Vianova Oct 20 2004, 11:51 PM
Hey Hoss
thanks for the input of links.
BUMP this thread !

Interesting about ammo as well.
Buried storage...
The PVC pipe sealed at both ends with ...what ?

water and moisture is a real penetrator,
but I remember in the 70s , funny money being buried in PVC sealed pipes.
One probably has to use an epoxy sealant,
or better yet some kind of Vacu-bag sealed ammo , then into the PVC pipes.

Oh yes,
do not forget the
condoms and astroglide
as well.

Posted by: Hoss Oct 24 2004, 02:01 AM
Hi All
Just thought that i'd stop lurking for a while
Here is a site on SOLAR COOKING
that i use
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Posted by: Hoss Jan 30 2005, 03:13 PM
lets see if we cannot get some life hey

Four Changes

This is the first draft of a work in progress by Gary Snyder. It arose as a by-product of the Wild West debacle, from the warmth of numerous meetings of ecological activists working up to and out of a display at Wild West. It's been arising in Gary Snyder for years. On August 17 he submitted this draft for scrutiny by a group including Cliff and Mary Humphrey, Keith Lampe, Sterling Bunnell, Stephanie Mills, Joan McIntyre, Edward Bear, and others whose names I didn't get. Gary ran the scrutiny session with a light perceptive hand. The results you will see in the final version soon to be printed throughout the underground press.


The Condition

Position: Man is but a part of the fabric of life - dependent of course on the whole fabric for his very existence, and also responsible to it. As the most highly developed tool-using animal, he must recognize that the evolutionary destinies (unknown) of other life forms are to be respected, and act as gentle steward of the earth's community of being.

Situation: There are now too many human beings; and the problem is growing rapidly worse. It is potentially disastrous not only for the human race but for most other life forms.

Goal: The goal would be half of the present world population or less.


Social/political: Legalize abortion; encourage vasectomy and sterilization (provided free by clinics), remove income tax deductions for more than two children above a specified income level, and scale it so that lower income families are forced to be careful too. Take a vigorous stand against the Catholic church and any other institutions that exercise an irresponsible political force in regard to this question; work ceaselessly to make all political problems be seen and solved in the light of this prime problem.

The community: Explore other social structures and marriage forms, such as group marriage and polyandrous marriage which provide family life but which produce less children. Share the pleasure of raising children widely, so that all need not directly reproduce to enter into this basic human experience. Let no two persons produce more than two children. Adopt children. Let reverence for life and for the feminine mean also a reverence for other species, most of which are threatened.

Our own heads: "I am a child of all life, and all living beings are my brothers and sisters, my children and grandchildren, & there is a child within me waiting to be brought to birth, the baby of a new and wiser self." Love, love-making, a male and female together, seen as the vehicle of mutual realization, where the creation of new selves and new worlds of beings is as important as making babies.


The Condition

Position: Pollution is an excess production of substances which cannot be absorbed or transmuted rapidly enough to offset their introduction, thus causing changes the cycle is not prepared for. All organisms have wastes and by-products, and these are indeed part of the total ecosystem; energy is passedalong the line and refracted in various ways, "the rainbow body." This is cycling, not pollution.

Situation: The human race in the last century has allowed its production and dissemination of wastes, by-products and various chemical substances to become excessive. Pollution is directly harming the ecosystem. It is also ruining the environment in very direct ways for humanity itself.

Goal: Clean air, clean clear-running rivers, the Presence of Pelicans and Ospreys in our lives, unrnuddied language and good dreams.


Social/political: Waste and by-product quantity must be reduced. Strong legislation controlling DDT and related pesticides with no fooling around. Direct exposure of the collusion of certain scientists, the pesticide industry, and agri-business in trying to block this legislation. Strong penalties for air and water pollution by industry. "Pollution is somebody's profit." Phase out petroleum fuels, explore all possible energy sources of a non-polluting nature: solar power. Tell the truth regarding atomic waste disposal and the threat it represents. Stop all germ and chemical warfare research and experimentation. Laws and sanctions encouraging the use of bio-degradable substances; and sanctions against wasteful use of paper, etc. which adds to the solid waste of cities. Determine methods of re-cycling solid urban waste; and re-cycling as a basic principle should inform all waste disposal thinking.

The community: DDT and such: don't use them. Air pollution: use less cars. Cars pollute the air, and one or two people riding lonely in a huge car is an insult to intelligince and the Muse. Share rides, pick up hitchhikers, legalize hitch-hiking and build hitch-hiker waiting stations along the highways. Also - as a step toward the new world - walk more: look for the best routes through beautiful countryside for long-distance walking trips: San Francisco to Los Angeles down the Coast Range, for one. Learn how to use your own manure as fertilizer if you're in the country as the far East has done for centuries. There's a way, and it's safe. †

Solid waste: boycott wasteful Sunday papers which use up trees, and add vastly to the solid waste of the city. Refuse paper bags at the store. Organize park and street cleanup festivals. Don't waste- (a monk and an old master were once walking in the mountains. They noticed a little hut upstream. The monk said, "A wise hermit must live there - "The master said, "That's no wise hermit, you see that lettuce leaf floating down the stream, he's a Waster." Just then an old man came running down the hill with his beard flying and caught the floating lettuce leaf.)

Our own heads: Part of the trouble with talking about DDT is that the use of it is not just a practical device, it's almost an establishment religion. There is something in western culture that wants to totally wipe out creepy-crawlies and feels repugnance for toadstools and snakes. This is fear of one's own deepest natural inner-self wilderness areas, and the answer is, relax. Relax around bugs, snakes arid your own hairy dreams. Again farmers can and should share their crop with a certain percentage of buglife as "paying their dues" - Thoreau says "How then can the harvest fail? Shall I not rejoice also at the abundance of the weeds whose seeds are the granary of the birds? It matters little comparatively whether the fields fill the farmer's barns. The true husbandman will cease from anxiety as the squirrels manifest no concern whether the woods will bear chestnuts this year or not, and finish his labor with every day, relinquish all claim to the produce of his fields, and sacrificing in his mind not only his first but his last fruits also." In the realm of thought, inner experience, consciousness, as in the outward realm of interconnection, there is a difference between a balanced cycle, and the excess which cannot be handled. When the balance is right, the mind recycles from highest illumination to the stillness of dreamless sleep; the alchemical "transmutation."


The Condition

Position: Consumption is also a matter of balances and the problems that arise with excess. "The Wanton Boy that kills a fly shall feel the Spider's enmity."

Situation: Man's use of dozens of "resources" and his total dependence on certain of them (like dependence on fossil fuels) exhausts certain presences in the biosphere with incalculable results on the other members of the network: while rendering mankind vulnerable to the consequences of the loss of major supplies. In fragile areas animals and birds have all but been extincted in pursuit of furs or feathers or fertilizer or oil: the soil is "used up" and all of this to feed outrageous excesses like war, or a phoney consumption-oriented economy.

Goal: Balance, harmony, humility, the true affluence of being a good member of the community of living creatures.


Social/political: Seek out new self-renewable energy sources. And: it must be taught ceaselessly til it sticks that a continually "growing economy" is no longer healthy, but a Cancer. Restructure business corporations so that they can function without presenting a contunually growing profit; stress responsible, controlled production. Soil banks, open space, phase out logging on federal land. Protection for all predators and varmints. Absolutely no further development of roads and concessions in National Parks and Wilderness areas; build auto campgrounds in the least desirable areas. Develop consumer-boycott and consumer research power in the areas of irresponsible and dishonest products. Thus: expose the myths of capitalism and the cold war. & Communist myths of growth and production by the by.

The community: Sharing and conserving; boycotting the wasteful. The inherent aptness of communal life, where large tools are owned jointly, and personal objects are private. If enough people refused to buy a new car for one year, it would permanently alter the American economy. Re-cycling clothes and equipment. (Goodwill and Salvation Army are useful: they should perhaps be confronted and straightened out on their pricing and wage policies.) Support local handicrafts in shoes and clothes. Learn to break the habit of too many unnecessary possessions - a monkey on everybody's back - but avoid a self-abnegating anti-joyous self righteousness. Simplicity is light, carefree, neat, and loving-not a self-punishing ascetic trip. (The greatest Chinese poet, Tu Fu, said, "The ideas of a poet should be noble and simple.")

Don't shoot a deer if you don't know how to use all the meat and preserve that which you can't eat; to tan the hide and use the leather - to use it all, with gratitude, right down to the sinew and hooves. Simplicity and mindfulness in diet is perhaps the starting point for most people.

Our own heads: It is hard to even begin to gauge how much a complication of possessions, the habits of "ownership" and "use" stand between us and a true, clear, liberated way of seeing the world. To live lightly on the earth, to be aware and alive, to be free of egotism, starts with concrete acts, but the inner principle is the insight that we are interdependent energy fields of great potential wisdom and compassion - expressed in each person as a superb mind, a beautiful and complex body, and the almost magical capacity of language. To these potentials and capacities, "owning things" can add nothing of authenticity. "Clad in the sky with the earth for a pillow."

The Condition

Position: The unbalance in man's relation to nature & his selves is partly an inherent existential question with biological and ultimate roots - birth, suffering, old age and death; and partly a cultural problem. In approaching questions of Being and Emptiness we have the wisdom traditions and some emerging sciences to help us. In transforming culture, we must augment the philosophical perceptions with a deep study of history and anthropology.

Situation: Our civilized - and probably most other - societies of the last three millenia have functioned well enough up to this point. But they no longer have survival value. They are now anti-survival.

Goal: Nothing short of total transformation will work. What we envision is a planet on which the human population lives harmoniously and dynamically by employing a sophisticated and unobtrusive technology in a world environment which is "left natural." Specific points in this vision:

A healthy and spacious population of all races, much less in number than today.

Cultural and individual pluralism, unified by a type of world tribal council. Division by natural and cultural areas rather than arbitrary political boundaries.

A Technology of communication and quiet transportation: land use being sensitive to the properties of each region. Allowing, thus, the bison to return to much of the high plains. Careful but intensive agriculture in the great alluvial valleys. Computer technicians who run the plant part of the year and walk along with the Elk in their migration during the rest

A basic cultural outlook and social organization that inhibits power and property-seeking while encouraging exploration and challenge in things like healing songs, flute-playing, meditation, mathematics, mountaineering, and all the other possible ways of authentic being-in-the-world. Women totally free and equal. A new kind of family - responsible, but more festive and relaxed - is implicit.


Social/political: It seems evident that there are throughout the world certain social and religious forces that have worked throughout history toward an ecologically/culturally enlightened state of affairs. Let these be encouraged: Alchemists, hip Marxists, Anarchists, Third Worlds, Teilhard and cryptoGnostic Catholics, Druids, Witches, Taoists, Biologists, Yogins, Quakers, Tibetans, Zens, Shamans, Sufis, Amish and Mennonite, American Indians, Polynesians - all primitive cultures, all communal and ashram movements of all persuasions, &c. The list is long. Since it doesn't seem practical or even desirable th think that direct bloody force will achieve anything, it would be best to consider this a continuing "revolution of consciousness" which will be won not by guns but by siezing the key images, myths, archetypes, eschatologies, and ecstasies so that life won't seem worth living unless one's on the transforming energy's side.

Our community: Without falling into a facile McLuhanism, we can hope to use the media. New schools, new classes, - walking in the woods and cleaning up the streets. Let no one be ignorant of the facts of biology and related disciplines; bring up our children with natural things and a taste of the wild. Let some groups establish themselves in backwater rural areas and flourish, let others maintain themselves in the urban centers, and let them work together, a two-way flow of experience, people, money and home-grown vegetables. Investigating new lifestyles is our work - as is the exploration of Ways to change one's innerworld - with the known dangers of crashing that go with such. We should work where it helps with political people, hoping to enlarge their vision. And with people of all varieties of politics or ideologies at whatever point they become aware of environmental urgencies. Master the archaic and the primitive, as models of basic nature-related cultural styles, as well as the most imaginative future possibilities of science and technology, and build a community where these two vectors cross.

Our own heads: Is where it starts. Knowing that we are the first human beings in history to have all of man's culture and previous experience available to our study, and being free enough of the weight of traditional cultures to seek out a larger identity. - The first members of a civilized society since the early Neolithic to wish to look clearly into the eyes of the wild and see our selfhood, our family, there. We have these advantages to set off the obvious disadvantages of being as screwed up as we are.Which gives us a fair chance to penetrate into some of the riddles of ourselves & the universe, and to go beyond the idea of "man's survival" or "the survival of the biosphere" and to draw our strength from the realization that at the heart of things is some kind of serene and ecstatic process which is actually beyond qualities and beyond birth-and-death. "No need to survive!" "In the fires that destroy the universe at the end of the kalpa, what survives?" - 'The iron tree blooms in the void!"

Knowing that nothing need be done, is where we begin to move from
13. VIII. 40069
September, 1969
still working full of good shit

Posted by: Hoss Feb 5 2005, 11:34 PM
Lil Ol me Wanderin agin
Lets see if we cannot bumpo rooonniiiiee

Sheath It!

By Glen Lewis

Have you ever wished for a better sheath than the one which came with your favorite knife? Have you had your knife for many years and over the countless trips in the wild your sheath has become too worn to safely carry your blade with confidence? You have several choices. You can have a Kydex sheath made for your knife and that is an excellent option. You can have an expensive custom leather sheath made that will carry your fine blade with an elegance and style or you can make your own leather sheath.

Leather is my favorite sheathing material. I just like the way it looks and they way it does not scratch the finish with repeated sheathings. It does not rattle. You can choose your color and your style sheath as well. Wood scales, stacked leather or stag handles seem to beg for the look and feel of leather. Note: While a leather sheath does a very good job protecting your blade from damage, it is not always a solution when trying to protect you from your own blade. No sheath is. Careful carry is the key to safety. If you slip and fall on a sheathed knife, the blade may come through the sheath and cause bodily harm. Make sure the knife is carried where it won't do any damage should a slip occur.

We will make a leather pouch sheath in this article. I have developed a method from taking some traditional steps and modifying the process to work best for someone who rarely makes a sheath but wants the very best.

Take your knife and lay it on a sheet of paper. Trace an outline around it with the spine in the center and the edge toward the outside. Fold the paper over the knife and mark the center of the back of the handle as well as the center of the front of the handle. This will show you how much material it will take to wrap around the entire handle. I always add more than I will need for the welt so I don't come up short. You cannot add more later on and until you become more familiar with the whole process, this will assure you of a good well designed final product. Add about an inch to the outside edge of your outline. Fold the paper in half and cut it out. You will have a shape that looks sort of like a shield. Lay that down on another piece of paper and trace it once more and cut that out. Now cut out the shape on the first paper that includes the edge of the knife and that side of the handle to the outside margin of the shield. This is your welt. You must take into account the shape of your handle. If it dips in near the guard, you must leave the welt straight and not curved into that finger indentation so the knife can slide down into the sheath. It should be tight around the fattest part of the handle. Decide how wide a belt loop you need and add about another inch on both ends for stitching. I generally allow for a two inch belt and make the loop an inch wide. You may make it as wide and long as you want. Cut that out as well.
You need a piece of good leather. 8/9 ounce vegetable tanned leather is what many sheath makers use for a good heavy leather knife sheath. Vegetable tanned leather can be molded when wet and that is what we will do for our pouch sheath. Take your pattern down to your local leather supply and overlay it on the smaller pieces until you find one that accepts the whole pattern. Trace the pattern on the leather with a pencil and carefully cut it out with a sturdy craft knife. A sharp blade is a must. Be careful not to cut into the pattern or yourself. Once the pieces are cut out, make sure the welt fits the contours of the blade and line up with the handle.

Sorry Gang this thing is image intensive you need then to show how to

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Posted by: Wahya Mar 24 2005, 03:10 AM
Where has Laughing Wolf been?

Did the Space Iguanas get him?


Posted by: Hoss Mar 24 2005, 04:04 AM
Space iguana, wots the worry with hese things they cook up on the coals like any other LIZard

Where has Laughing Wolf been?

I am in the land down under, better go ask pupp he is in whistlingNEW2.gif america whistlingNEW2.gif
Hoss bouncefire.gif bouncefire.gif robotskull.gif
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Posted by: Ganesh2005 Mar 24 2005, 10:39 PM
hi hoss;
nodstar here..... still larfin,after your comments on
BBQ space iguana.. i have a picture in my mind of
hoss at the barbie, goin.... Errr jeez mate! jus bung that
ole space lizard on the barbie, have a beer mate!, she
should be done in just a tick!!... the dogs jus LOVE em!!!!
I wonder if they've taken into account that yer average
orstraylian,would probly do jus that..
'' jeez mate, check out all the free dog tucker!!"
( cue music..)Put another lizard on the fire...
Cook me up some bacon an some beans...
thanks for the larf hoss MARVINMARTIANBlink.GIF coolsmiley.gif

Posted by: Hoss Mar 25 2005, 01:08 AM

As long as we do not loose our sense of HUMOUR, we should be right. Because the day we do, we gots problems.

How you want you Space Iguana
Welll done
or RAW
My dogs only eat cooked tho'

Aussie time 8.06 pm
Always remember V, they came to din dins
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Posted by: Wahya Mar 25 2005, 01:27 AM
Hawaiian style, with pineapples and maybe some wasabi.

*licks chops*

Posted by: Guest Mar 25 2005, 01:42 AM
hi all,
nodstar here...

marinate FIRST....

ganesh sez....dont fergit to force wasabi into all available orifices BEFORE ya kill 'em....................
the ole wasabi warms up them cold blooded types!!!

pinkelephant.gif MARVINMARTIANBlink.GIF

Posted by: Ganesh2005 Mar 25 2005, 01:49 AM
Hmmm, funny...I was logged in..but something musta logged me out..

Then Hoss's avatar disappears....what's goin on ?

Things have sure gone wacky since the supposed renewal of the alien treaty a few days ago...

Maybe space lizard not like recipe...huh ?

Peace, dudes

Posted by: Hoss Apr 6 2005, 04:33 AM

Space Eguana's beware, i'm HUNGERY.

Survival vest one off

The Making of a Simple Survival Vest

© 2004 Gary L. Benton

When you need survival gear is not the time you to discover you don’t have it with you. Years ago, while in the Air Force, I learned how to turn an old fishing vest into a hunting/survival vest. It is easy to do and doesn’t take very long to construct. You will be surprised how organized it is, as well as inexpensive to put together. All you need is a fishing vest, I used an old one, and some survival components. Just make sure you do not use a vest with built in flotation. It would be too bulky to use with a backpack.

I used my wife’s sewing machine to sew to three large pockets inside the vest. I sewed one large pocket on each side, inside front part of vest, and one larger one in the back, on the inside. You can make the pockets as large or small as you like. I also sewed a bit of Velcro ® to the vest and the top of the pocket. I did not add a closing flap to the pockets, so they actually looked like deep pouches. The Velcro ® will keep the pocket (or pouch) closed. You can add as many or few pockets as you like. However, most fishing vests come with enough pockets to store all of the survival equipment you would ever need.

My vest is packed all the time and ready to go. That means any time I can just pick it up and I know my gear is there. I keep the following items stored in the outside pockets.

1. A quality penknife or jack knife.

2. Condoms for water storage, unlubricated.

3. Water proof matches in a plastic container.

4. Flint and steel and a metal match.

5. Water purification tablets, small bottle.

6. A long strip of folded heavy-duty aluminum foil folded up to cook with

7. Fishing kit, i.e., hooks, sinkers, and some line. Nothing fancy.

* Commercial back packing first aid kit (with instructions). I carry a very

small one.

* One small pack of gum and one of hard candy (energy).
* Approximately 30 feet of parachute nylon cord (550 cord).
* A very small penlight flashlight.
* Five beef bullion cubes wrapped in a plastic sandwich bag.
* Five tea/coffee bags wrapped in a plastic sandwich bag.
* An emergency strobe light, with an extra battery.
* Whistle, plastic
* Other small odds and ends that make life more comfortable for me, (i.e., thin space blanket, an additional knife, mechanical fire starters, and so on).

Inside the vest, in the large pockets, I store the softer and bigger items. The pocket at the rear of the vest contains my good quality casualty blanket. On the right, inside pocket, I keep a pair of dry socks and a poncho. The left inside pocket has my boonie hat and Nomex ® flight gloves. The hat protects me from the sun and rain, while the gloves are great heat protection when I cook or work with the campfire.

When you consider adding survival components, consider what they are to be used for. I try to break my gear down into categories when I consider adding anything;

* Foods (examples are candy, coffee, teas, bullion cubes, etc.)
* Signaling equipment (strobe light, silver lined casualty blanket, matches for signal fires, signal mirror, flares, and a whistle)
* Food procurement (parachute cord for snares, fishing kit, perhaps some wire)
* Water (water purification tablets, condoms, maybe a collapsible two quart canteen as well).
* Shelter items (poncho, casualty blanket, space blanket, and cord to make a shelter).
* First Aid (a first small general aid kit and first aid manual)
* Fire starting (metal match, storm proof matches, lighter, etc..)
* Nice to have (sewing kit, Nomex ® gloves, boonie hat, and other comfort items)

All of this sounds like a lot of gear, but it is not very heavy. I can wear the vest along with my backpack very easily. The key is to put a soft object in the inside rear pocket to help cushion the backpack. Also, make sure the item is flat in the pocket. If it is bunched up, you will experience some discomfort with a backpack on. Also, some of these items serve more than one purpose. For example, my casualty blanket can be used to wrap up and sleep in, treat an injured person, construct a shelter, and even to signal with (one side is bright silver in color).

So, there you go. Use your imagination to design your own survival vest. Or, you can go down to “Joe’s Survival Surplus” and purchase an used or new aviators vest. It is pre-made and ready to go. The commercial one will have about the same number of pockets, but it will be made of mesh and all the pockets will have Velcro closures. Also, a commercial one may have line tied to the vest that allows you to secure each survival item. This ok for some people but I dislike the idea.

The idea of securing your survival equipment was developed by the Air Force to keep equipment attached to the vest in the even of a high speed bailout or from being lost due to turbulence during a parachute freefall. Also, if the aircrew member had to open his vest, perhaps to get a radio out during a parachute descent or while hanging in a tree, if he dropped it the gear would not be lost.

I like the idea in some ways. If you drop your gear it is no further than the end of the cord attaching it to the vest. Plus, the cord can be removed from the vest and put to other uses.

I dislike the idea because after you remove a few items to use them you start to look like a spaghetti pot that has exploded with lines everywhere. This happens because most people, me included, are too lazy to wrap the item up properly once they use it. The piece of gear goes back into a pocket poorly wrapped and with part or all of ine hanging out. Then, I can see the lines getting entangled in brush and on limbs as the person moves. Or your hands may catch on a dangling line.

The choice is yours to secure your items or not. I don’t plan on making anymore parachute drops, so I have removed the line. If you are worried about losing your gear consider it. It is an individual preference and you can try it out if you are interested.

A survival vest is easy and inexpensive to make. All it takes is a vest, some very basic survival gear, and a sewing machine (you can go with just the standard vest pockets if you don’t have a sewing machine). In less than an hour you can have a survival kit you can wear. It is always ready to go and you can put it on as you walk out the door. Within no time you will even forget you are wearing it. While survival is never easy, it does get easier when you are wearing a survival vest.

The one me is building up tho' carrys four knivies and various pouches. I refuse to pay any basterd four hundred bucks aussie for something i can make my-self for half the price with easily obtanable materials , ssshhhiiiisss

Posted by: Hoss Apr 8 2005, 05:38 AM

I Crossed a very good descriptin of a Survivalist person on one of the forums the other day
SURVIVALISM is the art of being ADDAPTIVE.

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Posted by: Mark Dec 28 2006, 11:49 AM
Received in email...


Everyone.... There are many types of survivalist..... from the person that gets ready for a 3 day hurricane to the crazy people that buy up land in Arkansas and set up booby traps so they can fight off the US government....

I am now a two to three week survivalist because I have a new paranoia..... THE COMING BIRD FLU PANDEMIC.

Check it out on the internet.... or

It is not a matter of if it will happen..... it is a matter of how long we have before H5N1 mutates to become contagous between humans.  When it happens, it has the potential of killing 30% of the worlds population. A city the size of Philly will have 5000 deaths per day for several weeks. The pandemic may be as bad as the 1918 pandemic.

As a nation we can take a nuc strike in several big cities and still function to feed, provide water, electricity, and sewage for our people not directly in the affected areas.

The bad thing about a flu pandemic or a bio attack is the fact that there will be so many people sick, food will not be able to be transported to the stores.  There will be a two week time frame when the nation will shut down.  The pandemic is expected to come in 3 major waves and each wave will wreck the transport system when truck drivers, dock workers, warehousmen, utility workers, etc. are too sick to work.

No water, no food, no sewage, no trash pickup, no electricity.....  Some will not be affected, most will see some loss of at least one of those items or services during the pandemic.

Not the end of the world....  but there will be a lot of hungry, thirsty, dirty people suffering for quite a long time.

The senerio is suppose to go like this:  People get sick and stay home or go to the doctor and hospitals.  Fuel production and transportation of fuel and food stops.  Utilities need fuel to make electricity.  The priorities will go to the hospitals, sewage plant, water plant, municipal governments. Homes will be cut off from power.

Military and Guard will be called on to support the transport system. They will have to declare military priority on all fuels.  No fuel for the average person to go to work.  The situation gets worse until fuel production and transportation is restored.

My advice is:

  Start putting away enough food for your immediate family, parents, and in-laws for at least 2 weeks.  And.....  as soon as the first epidemic of bird flu is reported in the big cities, have a plan for each adult in the family to immediatly go out an buy up a lot of canned meats.  .  Buy stuff you normally use over a period of time.  Base your storage on a 1700 calorie a day per person.....

My larder is now full of stuff we normally buy and some basics we normally do not use ( a lot of  beans, rice, flour, sugar, shortening, cornmeal). I date everything with the current month and 2 years from the date we put it in the larder.

When we need something, we go to the larder, take the oldest out and use it.  We write it down and replace it.

I am guessing but most of us can get water from a local lake or creek or well so have at least 2 five gallon containers to carry water in.

Be sure to put away 5 gallons of bleach, and a lot of candles, repeat, a lot of candles.

A real easy purification system is to use 2 five gallon buckets, modify one to have small holes in the bottom.  Lay down a cloth over the holes inside the bucket, fill almost to the top with clean fine sand,  cover with cloth. Set the first bucket on top of the second bucket and pour water through the sand to filter.  Boil if possible and always add a teaspoon of bleach for each 10 gallons of water you want to set aside for cooking and drinking.  The longer the bleach is in the water, the more pure it will be so it is important to keep the water in sealed bottles to prevent air exposure which will deplete the chlorine....

A few more pointers:

Frozen food will not be any good when the electricity goes off so use frozen stuff first.

Dry food stores better than anything with moisture in it.

Store food in containers to keep bugs out and check it often.

Get a good first aid kit and keep plenty of cold medicines and prescriptions on hand (locked up from the kids).

Do not let your neighbors know you are stocked up, you might advise them to but your supplies should be kept secret.  Providing food to the neighbors kids once a day will be OK but do not expect to feed the adults, it will just not work.

Buy a good dutch oven and store up some fire wood.  Cook meats at night when the neighbors are asleep.

Dogs and cats will be let loose to survive on their own.  Dogs are extremely dangerous as a pack.  Be prepared to set steel traps or snares to protect your property.  Keep the kids close and carry a gun and a machete when you see dogs starting to form packs.  If attacked, kill the two lead dogs first.  Go to for supplies and lessons on setting snares.

Get a gun, learn to use it.  Keep it locked up and safe from the kids. Get plenty of ammo, you never can have too much.  Ammo is always a good bartering item.

Be prepared to cut off your water supply and know how to drain your water pipes and water heater in the event you do not have heat when it is below freezing.

Get some extra heavy blankets or sleeping bags for your normal winter time temperatures.  The only heat you may have available is body heat, you may find yourselves living in the smallest room in the house just to keep from freezing.

Buy a lot of beans and rice and store them in easy to get to containers. Get into a habit of  eating beans and cornbread at lease once a week, rice at least twice a week.  Replace the amount you use each month.  You will be healthier for doing so.

Keep your cars full of gasoline and if the pandemic strikes.  Conserve the fuel.

Do not expect to be able to go fishing or hunting for food.  Everyone will be out there, including some people more crazy than you.

If it does not happen, great.  If it does, you will be more ready than others.
I know I feel better just knowing I am prepared for several weeks of hard times.

For some more advice, some on the extreme fringe,... do an internet search on survival.

Yes,,,,, Judy thinks I am crazy.


Posted by: Blackbetty Jul 20 2007, 08:32 PM

Hi Everyone! Didn't realize this thread was still here,just finished reading through it again, some great info!
Has anyone thought about simple easy to make recipes if you are still at home and able to cook? It would save dipping too much into your supplies(as long as you had the ingredients on hand to make it which I imagine most would)
Here is an easy to make no -knead bread.

3 cups of flour
1/4 teaspoon of yeast
11/4 teaspoons of salt
Mix together with a cup and a half of water, cover and leave for at least 12 hours.
Bake in a pre-heated camping oven for 30mins with the lid on and 15mins with the lid off at 220 degrees celsius. ( americans will have to adjust the heat accordingly to Farenheit) think it was about 140 but could be wrong you had better double check!
bake for about 40 mins/45 mins.
Make sure the pre-heated oven is very HOT before adding the bread to it.
Enjoy with lashings of butter!

Peace bb cheers2.gif

Posted by: Blackbetty Jul 20 2007, 08:53 PM
And another one.....How to make your own Powdered Egg!

Do a dozen or more at a time. Seperate the whites and yolks. Whip the whites into a stiff Meringue adding 1 teaspoon cream of tartar per dozen eggs. Meringue when ready, is like a stiff whipped cream. Place this meringue on a plastic film covered tray and dry at 110 to 120F ( around 46C ). It dries in about an hour. When dry, crush the whites into a powder and package them seperately.

Whip the yolks until they are smooth and pour this puree on a plastic film covered tray.Dry as a leather. When it feels dry, crush it and grind it into a powder.Redry this powder on a tray. When finally dry, grind it again and package seperately.

To cook one egg,take 1 tablespoon of both the dried yolk and white and mix with 3 tablespoons of water. Let this sit for 5 or 10 minutes until it becomes thick.
These are used as fresh eggs, and they taste like fresh eggs.

Peace bb flowerNEW.gif

Posted by: Bloodstone(nli) Oct 4 2007, 03:15 PM
These are all super helpful, very well put together too.

The only thing I could add is Ive been considering stocking up on foundry books, crafting books, and moonshining books from (theyre paperbacks, and fairly cheap, so buying 3 for emergencies isint such a hasstle)

I was reading one the other day on how moonshine can be used for fuel, Im unsure wether it can be used on generators, but considering moonshine can be made from things like potatoes, bannanas and apples, Im pretty sure its affordable generator fuel (IF it works on generators, Ive so far only used it on motor scooters, dirt bikes, and lawn more type engines)

And who wouldnt trade you some bullets and food every now and again for a ready supply of 200% proof moonshine? heh

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