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> Argument Boils About Numbers Of Auschwitz Dead


Master Of His Domain
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Posted: Jan 21 2005, 04:30 PM
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FACT: The Holocaust happened.

We've seen the horrifying vintage newsreels of the walking human skeletons.

We must always endeavor to ensure that this NEVER happens again and it just might one day as it appears that the Nazis now control America via Israel.
(Same inhuman bloodlines)

"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
~ Matthew 7:16



QUOTE
Argument Boils About Numbers Of Auschwitz Dead
The Numbers Decline, The Controversy Increases
Multiple Sources
1-21-5

It is past time for an international investigation conducted by truly impartial scientists, researchers and scholars into the reality of Auschwitz to properly and as accurately as possible bring history into accord with the facts. Peoples of all religions and persuasions have a right to such facts. So far, as the following data demonstrates, we are a long way from a consensus on the truth of what happened at Auschwitz in WWII.
 
9,000,000
 
Source: Cited by the French documentary, Night and Fog, which has been shown to millions of school students worldwide.
 
8,000,000
 
Source: The French War Crime Research Office, Doc. 31, 1945.
 
7,000,000
 
Source: Also cited by the French War Crime Research Office.
 
6,000,000
 
Source: Cited in the book Auschwitz Doctor by Miklos Nyiszli. It has since been proven that this book is a fraud and the "doctor" was never even at Auschwitz, even though the book is often cited by historians.
 
5,000,000 to 5,500,000
 
Source: Cited in 1945 at the trial of Auschwitz commander Rudolf Höss, based on his confession which was written in English, a language he never spoke.
 
5,000,000
 
Source: Cited on April 20, 1978 by the French daily, Le Monde. Also cited on January 23, 1995 by the German daily Die Welt. By September 1, 1989, Le Monde reduced the figure to 1,433,000.
 
4,500,000
 
Source: In 1945 this figure was cited by another witness at the aforementioned Höss trial.
 
4,000,000
 
Source: Cited by a Soviet document of May 6, 1945 and officially acknowledged by the Nuremberg War Crimes trial. This figure was also reported in The New York Times on April 18, 1945, although 50 years later on January 26, 1995, The New York Times and The Washington Post slashed the figure to 1,500,000 citing new findings by the Auschwitz Museum officials. In fact, the figure of 4,000,000 was later repudiated by the Auschwitz museum officials in 1990 but the figure of 1,500,000 victims was not formally announced by Polish President Lech Walesa until five years after the Auschwitz historians had first announced their discovery.
 
3,500,000
 
Source: Cited in the 1991 edition of the Dictionary of the French Language and by Claude Lanzmann in 1980 in his introduction to Filip Muller's book, Three Years in an Auschwitz Gas Chamber.
 
3,000,000
 
Source: Cited in a forced confession by Rudolf Höss, the Auschwitz commander who said this was the number of those who had died at Auschwitz prior to Dec. 1, 1943. Later cited in the June 7, 1993 issue of Heritage, the most widely read Jewish newspaper in California, even though three years previously the authorities at the Auschwitz museum had scaled down the figure to a minimum of 1,100,000 and a maximum of 1,500,000. (see below).
 
2,500,000
 
Source: Cited by Rudolf Vrba (an author of various fraudulent accounts of events he claims to have witnessed at Auschwitz) when he testified on July 16, 1981 for the Israeli government's war crimes trial of former SS official Adolf Eichmann.
 
2,000,000
 
Source: Cited by Leon Poliakov (1951) writing in Harvest of Hate; Georges Wellers, writing in 1973 in The Yellow Star at the Time of Vichy; and Lucy Dawidowicz, writing in 1975 in The War Against the Jews.
 
2,000,000 to 4,000,000
 
Source: Cited by Yehuda Bauer in 1982 in his book, A History of the Holocaust. However, by 1989 Bauer revised his figure to 1,600,000.
 
1,600,000
 
Source: This is a 1989 revision by Yehuda Bauer of his earlier figure in 1982 of 2,000,000 to 4,000,000, Bauer cited this new figure on September 22, 1989 in The Jerusalem Post, at which time he wrote "The larger figures have been dismissed for years, except that it hasn't reached the public yet."
 
1,500,000
 
Source: In 1995 this was the number of Auschwitz deaths announced by Polish President Lech Walesa as determined by those at the Auschwitz museum. This number was inscribed on the monument at the Auschwitz camp at that time, thereby "replacing" the earlier 4,000,000 figure that had been formally repudiated (and withdrawn from the monument) five years earlier in 1990. At that time, on July 17, 1990 The Washington Times reprinted a brief article from The London Daily Telegraph citing the "new" figure of 1,500,000 that had been determined by the authorities at the Auschwitz museum. This new figure was reported two years later in a UPI report published in the New York Post on March 26, 1992. On January 26, 1995 both The Washington Post and The New York Times cited this 1,500,000 figure as the new "official" figure (citing the Auschwitz Museum authorities).
 
1,471,595
 
Source: This is a 1983 figure cited by Georges Wellers who (as noted previously) had determined, writing in 1973, that some 2,000,000 had died.
 
1,433,000
 
Source: This figure was cited on September 1, 1989 by the French daily, Le Monde, which earlier, on April 20, 1978, had cited the figure at 4,000,000.
 
1,250,000
 
Source: In the book, The Destruction of the European Jews, by Raul Hilberg (1985).
 
1,100,000 to 1,500,000
 
Source: Sources for this estimate are Yisrael Gutman and Michael Berenbaum in their 1984 book, Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp. This estimate was later also cited by Walter Reich, former director of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, writing in The Washington Post on September 8, 1998. The upper figure of 1,500,000 is (the new) "official" figure as now inscribed at Auschwitz, with the earlier figure of 4,000,000 having been removed from the memorial at the site of the former concentration camp.
 
1,000,000
 
Source: Jean-Claude Pressac, writing in his 1989 book Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers. This is interesting since he wrote his book to repudiate so-called "Holocaust deniers" who were called that precisely because they had questioned the numbers of those who had died at Auschwitz.
 
900,000
 
Source: Reported on August 3, 1990 11, by Aufbau, a Jewish newspaper in New York.
 
800,000 to 900,000
 
Source: Reported by Gerald Reitlinger in his book, The Final Solution.
 
775,000 to 800,000
 
Source: Jean-Claude Pressac's revised figure, put forth in his 1993 book, The Crematoria of Auschwitz: The Mass Murder's Machinery, scaling down his earlier claim of 1,000,000 dead.
 
630,000 to 710,000
 
Source: In 1994 Pressac scaled his figure down somewhat further; this is the figure cited in the German language translation of Pressac's 1993 book originally published in French. Again, this is substantially less than Pressac's 1989 figure of 1,000,000.
 
135,000 to 140,000
 
Source: This is an estimate based on documents held by the International Tracing Service of the Red Cross. It is known that International Tracing Service has a complete set of registration documents. This is thought to include a complete set of roll-call data which includes twice daily tallies of those who died. Although the International Tracing Service of the Red Cross has such records, they have never officially published an accurate count of those who died, or even an accurate report as to exactly which documents they hold. However, totals from these records have been obtained by various interested parties.
 
The estimate of 135,500 is roughly corroborated by the "Auschwitz death books." The death books themselves are wartime German camp records, which were captured by the Soviets towards the end of the war, and hidden in Soviet archives, until released to the Red Cross in 1989.
 
The death books consist of 46 volumes which document each death at Auschwitz (each death certificate consists of the deceased person's full name, profession and religion, date and place of birth, pre-Auschwitz residence, parents' names, time of death, and cause of death as determined by a camp physician). The records for the most important years, 1942 and 1943, are almost complete (there are also a few volumes for the year 1941, but none for the year 1944 or January 1945 (when Auschwitz was evacuated)).
 
The Auschwitz death books contain the death certificates of some 69,000 individuals, of whom about 30,000 were listed as Jews. You may view various entries in the Auschwitz Death Books by clicking on the following links to the Auschwitz museum:
(Note: rense.com did not provide the links ~ PuPP)
 
Using all available wartime records from the various camps it has been estimated that between 400,000 and 500,000 people died in the German concentration camp system (from all causes).
 
The ever declining numbers of alleged dead at Auschwitz, are graphically illustrated by the plaques from the camp.
 
The first plaque that was on display at the Auschwitz camp from 1948 until 1989, states "4 million" victims.
 
The second plaque currently on display at Auschwitz has the dramatically reduced number of victims, now only 1.5 million.
 
A casual reduction in the number of deaths by some 2.5 million.
 
Deaths at Auschwitz drop by a stunning 2.5 million, but the legendary 6,000,000 figure remains the same. 

http://rense.com/general62/auch.htm





--------------------
QUOTE
"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
~ Matthew 7:16

"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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Posted: Jan 21 2005, 04:33 PM
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QUOTE
Auschwitz - The Final Count
By Michael Collins Piper
Barnes Review.org
1-21-5

A thought-provoking new anthology edited by English historian Vivian Bird casts stark new light on what really happened at Auschwitz during World War II. As the evidence shows, the official "facts" just don't add up.
 
In the summer of 1997 I was invited to speak at a California college seminar about my book, Final Judgment, which contends that Israel's intelligence agency, the Mossad, played a front-line role in the JFK assassination conspiracy alongside the CIA. Almost instantaneously I was hit by a media barrage orchestrated by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) of B'nai B'rith, a lobby for Israel.
 
The ADL told the press I was "a Holocaust denier" and, for that reason alone, I should not be allowed to discuss my book (which, incidentally, never once mentions the Holocaust). Evidently the ADL was determined to shift the focus away from what my book really does address, so they determined the best way to discredit me was to smear me as "a Holocaust denier" (which I am not).
 
The ADL's tactic succeeded, setting off a firestorm of opposition-a "holocaust," so to speak-and the seminar was canceled, illustrating one point most clearly: The Holocaust has become a powerful propaganda tool for the state of Israel.
 
And what is important to remember is this: What did-or did not-happen at the Auschwitz concentration camp in Poland is, in fact, integral to the foundation of the basic story of the Holocaust.
 
Auschwitz is central to the Holocaust legend. If it can be proved that the official stories we have been told about Auschwitz are not true, the entire fabric of the Holocaust ultimately has to unravel. What, then, did happen at Auschwitz?
 
On April 18, 1945, in the immediate aftermath of World War II, The New York Times reported that 4 million people died at Auschwitz. This "fact" was reported over and over again during the next half-century, without being questioned.
 
However, on January 26, 1995, commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Auschwitz liberation, both The Washington Post and The New York Times itself reported that the Polish authorities had determined that, at most, 1.5 million people (of all races and religions)-not "4 million"-died at Auschwitz of all causes, including natural causes.
 
Yet this was not the first time this drastically reduced figure appeared in the major media. Almost five years previously, on July 17, 1990, The Washington Times reprinted a brief article from The London Daily Telegraph. That article stated:
 
Poland has cut its estimate of the number of people killed by the Nazis in the Auschwitz death camp from 4 million to just over 1 million . . . The new study could rekindle the controversy over the scale of Hitler's "final solution" . . .
 
Franciszek Piper, director of the historical committee of the Auschwitz-Birkenau Museum, said yesterday that, according to recent research, at least 1.3 million people were deported to the camp, of whom about 223,000 survived.
 
The 1.1 million victims included 960,000 Jews, between 70,000 and 75,000 Poles, nearly all of the 23,000 Gypsies sent to the camp and 15,000 Soviet prisoners of war.
 
Shmuel Krakowsky, head of research at Israel's Yad Vashem memorial for Jewish victims of the Holocaust, said the new Polish figures were correct: "The 4 million figure was let slip by Capt. Rudolf Hoess, the death camp's Nazi commander. Some have bought it, but it was exaggerated." . . . [P]laques commemorating the deaths of 4 million victims were removed from the Auschwitz museum earlier this month.
 
This detail of history was intriguing, since, after all, history books had said for a generation that of the 6 million Jews who died during the Holocaust, 4 million died at Auschwitz alone. Thus, if the new facts were correct, the actual overall number of Jewish Holocaust victims had to be considerably less than the much-talked-about figure of 6 million. Put simply: subtract the former 4 million Jews dead at Auschwitz from the popular 6 million, and that leaves 2 million Jews dead. Simple math-and a controversial conclusion indeed.
 
More recently, Walter Reich, former director of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, jumped into the debate over Auschwitz. On September 8, 1998, The Washington Post published an article by Reich in which he addressed Jewish outrage over a group of elderly Polish nuns who wanted to place crosses in memory of Christians who died at Auschwitz. Reich was responding to what he described as a "well-meaning" August 31, 1998 editorial in The Post about the affair.
 
Reich commented that the editorial "illustrates how old fictions about Auschwitz have been accepted as facts-fictions that have been used repeatedly to distort the camp's history." Evidently, the Post had forgotten its own report on the Auschwitz numbers that it had published three years previously and chose, instead, to repeat "old fictions . . . accepted as facts." What, then, were those "old fictions . . . accepted as facts"? Here's what Reich had to say:
 
The Post identified Auschwitz-Birkenau as the death camp "where 3 million Jews and millions of others were murdered by the Nazis." Recent scholarship by a Polish historian has put the number of deaths there conservatively at about 1.1 million, with other estimates ranging to about 1.5 million. Approximately 90 percent of the dead were Jews.
 
The Post's numbers may have been derived in part from the inflated estimate-originally of Soviet origin and endorsed by Polish authorities after the war-of about 4 million dead. This number, and other numbers of similar magnitude, were repeated so often that they came to be accepted by many as true, even though historians in Poland and elsewhere have revised this number down considerably.
 
Honest people find no problem with Reich's call (in the essay) for "only words of accurate history" in reportage about Auschwitz. Today, a major first step toward "only words of accurate history" is the release of a new anthology on Auschwitz, assembled by English writer Vivian Bird.
 
Auschwitz: The Final Count examines the "new" reports in the mainstream media (outlined above) and provides essential additional facts that must be considered in order for the full story of Auschwitz to finally be told. Bird's 109-page book is a compendium (supplemented with commentary by Bird) of four complete, previously published works relating to Auschwitz and the Holocaust.
 
The book features a fascinating introduction by Bird exploring the little-known but thoroughly documented phenomenon in which the numbers of the official Auschwitz "death toll" have plummeted from a "high" of 9,000,000 dead to a rock bottom of 73,137 (of whom 38,031 were Jews). And readers will note that of the 26 widely varying figures cited by Bird, all come from a variety of "responsible" and mainstream sources. No figure Bird cites comes from any source accused of "denying the Holocaust," whatever that means.
 
Clearly, the number of people who died at Auschwitz is central to understanding what did happen there. But the figures keep changing. If Bird's book proves anything, it proves that.
 
However, there's much more to Auschwitz than the changing numbers. The essays in Bird's volume each provide a uniquely different facet to the overall problem:
 
* The Auschwitz Lie by Thies Christophersen is an insider's view of Auschwitz. The German author, an agrarian, was sent to Auschwitz, not as an inmate, but as a scientist researching the development of synthetic rubber. Working side by side with inmate staff, Christophersen saw, firsthand, day-to-day life at Auschwitz and, in postwar years, was astounded to hear the stories of "gassings" and all the tall tales that we today associate with Auschwitz.
 
His essay, The Auschwitz Lie, first published in German in 1973, caused great consternation. However, Christophersen would not back down, and, as a consequence, he was variously fined or imprisoned for daring to tell his eyewitness account. Those accustomed to "docu-drama" renditions of Auschwitz will find a new perspective in Christophersen's report.
 
* Zyklon B, Auschwitz, and the Trial of Dr. Bruno Tesch is the second feature in Bird's anthology. Written by a veteran chemist, the late Dr. William Lindsey, this is a carefully documented demolition of the war crimes trial of Dr. Tesch, who was ultimately convicted and hanged. The unfortunate Tesch was co-owner of a company which bought in bulk (from the manufacturers) and then supplied (as the middleman) to the German concentration camp authorities the now-infamous Zyklon B pesticide.
 
Although we have been told Zyklon B was used to gas millions of Jews to death, Lindsey shows that the compound was used as an insecticide and disinfectant to delouse not only the Auschwitz inmates but also SS members running the camp and to fumigate their clothes, bunkhouses etc. Zyklon B, in short, was used to maintain and sustain human life-not to end it. Lindsey's essay examines the fraudulent evidence and testimony in the Tesch trial and eviscerates another critical element of not only the Auschwitz legend, but of the Holocaust story as a whole.
 
* Inside the Auschwitz "Gas Chambers" is by Fred A. Leuchter, a spunky American engineer once known as perhaps the foremost U.S. authority on the mechanics of judicial execution. Leuchter describes how he conducted scientific experiments on the structures at Auschwitz that court historians say were used to exterminate vast numbers of people-the infamous gas chambers. Leuchter concluded no such gassings could have ever taken place as the official story describes. For daring to present his findings-the only known such study carried out at the gas chambers-Leuchter was relentlessly harassed. But his point was made. His findings cut right to the core of the matter of Auschwitz.
 
* The final essay is Why Is "The Holocaust" Important? written by TBR publisher Willis A. Carto, who points out that the Holocaust has become a lucrative industry unto itself, used as a highly effective political tool to not only extort billions of German and American taxpayer dollars to Israel but also to force the United States to conduct its foreign policy in a fashion beneficial to Tel Aviv (and contrary to U.S. national interests). Carto's essay puts the Holocaust in perspective.
 
Thus, there's clearly much more to the story of Auschwitz and the Holocaust than meets the eye. The facts assembled paint a perhaps much more interesting story about what really did happen.
 
Bird's book will, in many ways, very much serve as the final judgment on Auschwitz. Auschwitz: The Final Count will outrage many-but as Bird puts it: "For those who care to investigate the facts-not the myths-about the events of World War II, this volume should put at least some of the major legends of the Holocaust to rest."
 
 
Michael Collins Piper is the author of Final Judgment: The Missing Link in the JFK Assassination Conspiracy and Best Witness. He is a keen student of historical intrigue and hidden political motivations.
 
Auschwitz: The Final Count, paperback, 109 pages, is available from the TBR Book Club for $12.95 plus $3 S&H; $6 S&H outside the U.S. TBR subscribers get 10% off. Send payment to TBR, 130 Third Street SE, Washington, D.C. 20003.
 
http://www.barnesreview.org/auschwitz.htm





--------------------
QUOTE
"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
~ Matthew 7:16

"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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  Posted: Jan 21 2005, 08:19 PM
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HI ALL
The mas genocide of the second world war happenned as they dd during the first war an in the Boer war plus the Sanish / American "Cuba" war.
The only reason that we remember them now is the politcal power that has given isreal and their use of it.
Nothing has changed look around at the rest of the world today, the only thing that matters to some people are their own agendasand they will justify removing people to attain them.
Hoss scratchinghead.gif shock.gif sweating.gif
EGM waving.gif waving.gif waving.gif waving.gif




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MONGERAL & WORKIN AT IT
*&*
THERE ARE FOUR KINDS OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD....

THOSE THAT LIKE YOU FOR THE RIGHT REASONS
THOSE THAT LIKE YOU FOR THE WRONG REASONS
THOSE THAT DON'T LIKE YOU FOR THE WRONG REASONS
THOSE THAT DON'T LIKE YOU FOR THE RIGHT REASONS

IT IS ONLY THE LAST GROUP YOU NEED TO WORRY ABOUT

So go tell me DOGS

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Posted: Feb 9 2005, 06:24 AM
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The bandying by the ZIONISTS of untruths with regard to the atrosities supposedly iflicted upon the JEWS during the last GREAT WAR has, for many years, been a topic on which i have been known to become, well, irrationally objective......Agreed, there were many millions of people in the concentration camps, and agreed the majority of them may have been of the jewish faith.....but to hold the German captors for the anhillation of so many people is to deny several possibilities....Some of the people in the camps were gassed, but by all accounts, including a group of jewish scientists in the late 1990's, who went to Awswitz to prove the gassings, concluded that if as many jews were gassed in the OVENS as reported, and taking into consideration the amount of cyanide that it would have taken to complete this gruesome task, the jewish scientists concluded that there was not sufficient cyanide residue on the internal walls,( in fact there was no residue), to form a conclusive argument that the gassings did actually take place.........I believe that the gassings were not, as stated for the past 50 odd years, exterminations but rather erradication of diseased bodies so as to ensure the survival of the majority of the camps inhabitants.....after all you get far better results from experimentation on the living.....and as far as the walking skeletons is concerned.....did anyone lay the blame for that at the feet of the gung ho, blow anything up at all costs,YANKS.......no they were trying to rid the world of a dictatorship, (sound familiar).....it is a well documnted fact that American pilots were known for blowing up all the trains they came across, no matter the cargo. (ie: food for the camps) or the destination..............

thats my bitch for the day...........................

nono2.gif beware self appointed truth sayers, lest they be influenced by personal agendas.

Stay happy.......Lundy


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Posted: Mar 3 2005, 11:04 AM
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Holocaust Survivor Memoir
Exposed As Total Fraud
By Mark Weber
IHR.org
3-3-5

A Holocaust survivor memoir that has received prestigious literary awards and lavish praise has been exposed as a hoax.

In Fragments: Memories of a Wartime Childhood, Binjamin Wilkomirski describes his ordeal as an infant in the Jewish ghetto of Riga (Latvia), where his earliest memory is of seeing his father being killed. Wilkomirski also tells how he survived the terrible rigors of wartime internment, at the age of three or four, in the German-run concentration camps of Majdanek and Auschwitz.

First published in German in 1995, Fragments has been translated into twelve languages. In Switzerland, the country where Wilkomirski lives, the book has been a major best-seller. Two documentary films and numerous personal appearances by the author in schools throughout the country have helped promote the memoir.

The American edition was published by Schocken, an imprint of Random House, which heavily promoted the book with teachers' study guides and other supplementary materials.

Jewish groups and major American newspapers have warmly praised Fragments. The New York Times called it "stunning," and the Los Angeles Times lauded it as a "classic first-hand account of the Holocaust." It received the 1996 National Jewish Book Award for Autobiography and Memoir, while in Britain it was awarded the Jewish Quarterly Literary Prize, and in France the Prix Memoire de la Shoah.

The US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, DC -- a federal government agency -- was so impressed that it sent Wilkomirski on a six-city United States fund-raising tour last fall.

This past summer, though, compelling evidence came to light exposing Wilkomirski's memoir as an literary hoax.

Although he claims to have been born in Latvia in 1939, and to have arrived in Switzerland in 1947 or 1948, Swiss legal records show that he was actually born in Switzerland in February 1941, the son of an unwed woman, Yvette Grosjean. The infant was then adopted and raised by the Doessekkers, a middle-class Zurich couple. Jewish author Daniel Ganzfried, writing in the Swiss weekly Weltwoche, also reports that he has found a 1946 photo of the young Bruno Doessekker (Wilkomirski) in the garden of his adoptive parents.

Comparisons have been drawn between Wilkomirski's Fragments and The Painted Bird, the supposedly autobiographical "Holocaust memoir" by prominent literary figure Jerzy Kosinksi that turned out to be fraudulent.

Reaction by Jewish Holocaust scholars to the new revelations has been instructive, because they seem more concerned about propagandistic impact than about historical truth. Their primary regret seems merely to be that the fraud has been detected, not that it was perpetrated.

In an essay published in a major Canadian newspaper (Ottawa Citizen, Nov. 18, 1998), Jewish writer Judith Shulevitz arrogantly argued that it doesn't really matter much if Fragments is authentic. Her main misgiving, apparently, is that the deceit was not more adroit: "I can't help wishing Wilkomirksi-Doesseker [sic] had been more subtle in his efforts at deception, and produced the magnificent fraud world literature deserves."

Deborah Dwork, director of the Center for Holocaust Studies at Clark University (Worcester, Mass.), and co-author of Auschwitz: 1270 to the Present (Yale Univ. Press, 1996), agrees that Fragments now appears to be fraudulent. At the same time, though, she expressed sympathy for Wilkomirski, saying that when she met him he appeared "to be a deeply scarred man." Amazingly, Dwork does not blame him for the imposture, "because she believes in his identity." Instead, she takes the publishers to task for having "exploited" Wilkomirski. (New York Times, Nov. 3, 1998).

Deborah Lipstadt, author of the anti-revisionist polemic Denying the Holocaust, has assigned Fragments in her Emory University class on Holocaust memoirs. When confronted with evidence that it is a fraud, she commented that the new revelations "might complicate matters somewhat, but [the work] is still powerful."

Daniel Ganzfried reports that Jews have complained to him that even if Fragments is a fraud, his exposé is dangerously aiding "those who deny the Holocaust."

American Jewish writer Howard Weiss makes a similar point in an essay published in the Chicago Jewish Star (Oct. 9-29, 1998):

Presenting a fictional account of the Holocaust as factual only provides ammunition to those who already deny that the horrors of Nazism and the death camps ever even happened. If one account is untrue, the deniers' reasoning goes, how can we be sure any survivors accounts are true ... Perhaps no one was ready to question the authenticity of the [Wilkomirski] account because just about anything concerning the Holocaust becomes sacrosanct.

Wilkomirski himself has responded to the new revelations by going into hiding, although he did issue a defiant statement describing the climate of discussion about his memoir as a "poisonous" atmosphere of "totalitarian judgment and criticism."



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Posted: Mar 3 2005, 12:27 PM
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Although this subjct was brought up in an earlier thread, where I posted the following, it bears repeating here. The information was gleaned from the book, THE MYTH OF THE 6 MILLION, published by The Noontide Press, August, 1969:

The International Committee of the Red Cross, in its detailed accounting, published in 3 volumes in 1948, stated that only 300,000 people out of a total of 17,850,000 civilians, from all countries involved, lost their lives through persecution during WWII. A portion of the 300,000 were Jews, a far cry from the successful deception of the figure that 6 million Jews were gassed. There weren't 6 million Jews in all of Europe!

Even the Jewish statistician, Gerald Reitlinger, admits that only 363,000 inmates were registered at Auschwitz from Jan. 1940 to Feb. 1945, and not all of them were Jews. Many died in the camps from disease caused by malnutrition as the food supples became scarce. Where's the 6 million?

Hitler's "final solution" was to encourage or force all Jews to leave all lands under Germany's control.

(Note: EVEN THE JEWISH STATISTICIAN ADMITS TO "ONLY" 363,000 inmates as having been registered at Auschwitz, and not all of them being Jews, which closely coincides with the figure of 300,000 as stated by the account of the International Committee of the Red Cross.)

BJ


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Posted: Mar 7 2005, 02:10 AM
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Thanks BJ.

It looks like there will be no debate on this issue for France.

What do they have to hide?

Unless their version is a lie.

QUOTE
Holocaust Query Draws 5 Year University Suspension
3-7-5

LYON, FRANCE (Reuters) - A French university said Friday it would suspend a professor for five years after he questioned whether the Nazis used gas chambers in the Holocaust.
 
Bruno Gollnisch, already faces a legal probe in France after he questioned how Nazis used the gas chambers and how many Jews were killed.
 
Lyon University, said Gollnisch would be suspended from his functions as professor of Japanese civilization for five years.
 
Gollnisch told a news conference Oct. 11 that he recognized gas chambers existed but said he thought historians had yet to decide whether they were actually used to kill Jews.
 
He called for an open debate about whether the total number of Jews killed in the Holocaust was 6 million as stated.
 
French Jewish organizations and anti-racism groups have condemned Gollnisch's remarks.
 
Gollnisch told reporters Friday he was the victim of a "real witch hunt" and blamed pressure from the government for his suspension.
 
French prosecutors have opened an investigation into Gollnisch.
 
France's anti-racism laws have made denying the Holocaust a crime, punishable by fines and prison.

http://rense.com/general63/ddudk.htm


No one can deny a holocaust happened in WWII - we've seen the old newsreels.

But to give one species special preferrential treatment with new movies, new books, and yet not remember the untold tens of millions of christians who died is not right in my book.




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  Posted: Mar 7 2005, 04:55 AM
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HI ALL

Hitler's "final solution" was to encourage or force all Jews to leave all lands under Germany's control.
**
A little acknowledged fact is that no other country outside of europe took a lot of jews in, that includes America too by the way unless of course they were scientists or fithy rich. Most of the ordinary jewish people who fled germany into europe ended up in labour camps. The Leaders of the free world at that time new what germany was doing and did not one thing to stop it even before the war.
And let us not forget the actions of the catholic chyurch in the matter of those PERFIDIOUS JEWS as welll
Hoss
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The past is the present the present?.. wwill be the future, it looks that way




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Posted: Mar 7 2005, 08:19 AM
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"Gollnisch told a news conference Oct. 11 that he recognized gas chambers existed but said he thought historians had yet to decide whether they were actually used to kill Jews."

Gollnisch is only partially right in saying that historians have yet to decide the facts of the matter. The facts were determined by those who, directly after WWII, investigated - and wrote down for the historical record - what happened to whom and to how many.

The closer you get to actual accounts, the closer you get to the truth. How many remain of the official investigative documents is a moot question. We all know that many historical writings have been burned through the centuries, the past one as well. They just disappear, like the truth tellers.

I imagine that the book, from which I quoted, is no longer available, nor are the International Red Cross documents, nor those of the Vatican. Does any think for a moment that those reports will be made available to any historian for confirmation of the truth?

The only way the monsters can survive is to feed on the lie.

BJ


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Posted: Mar 9 2005, 01:47 PM
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The Truth don't need laws to protect it. So, if the holocaust happened as its stated, why all the laws protecting the holocaust? The truth can stand by itself.




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Posted: Feb 6 2006, 12:54 AM
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This from Rense...


Friday, January 06, 2006
Let Ernst Zundel and David Irving Go Home

"I am uncomfortable with imprisoning people for speech.”
-Deborah Lipstadt, on historian David Irving

Ernst Zundel and David Irving may be filled with hate, but they should not be treated as criminals. The German and Austrian governments are the ones who have committed outrageous crimes by jailing these men for voicing their opinions about the Holocaust.

Zundel and Irving may be two of the world’s most infamous Holocaust deniers. But they have not initiated physical violence against anyone. They have not ordered others to commit violence.

Instead, Germany has put Zundel on trial for operating the Zundelsite website, which contains statements that the Holocaust is a fiction. It’s illegal in Germany to be a Holocaust denier. In November, Irving was arrested in Austria for two speeches he made in 1989, during which he allegedly claimed there had been no gas chambers at Auschwitz. It’s illegal in Austria to be a Holocaust denier.

The governments of Germany and Austria want to send Zundel and Irving to prison for many years for publicly expressing these beliefs.

Many liberal democracies around the world have passed laws that allow them to fine or imprison people for making public utterances that don’t conform exactly to the official version of the Nazi Holocaust. Canada didn’t like what Zundel said or wrote about the Holocaust. Last spring, Canadian officials shipped Zundel to Germany where they knew he would face prosecution for his speech. Zundel had immigrated to Canada from Germany in 1958 at the age of 19.

Instead of creating free and open societies, the governments involved in the prosecution of Zundel and Irving are carrying on the ignoble traditions of the Nazis by targeting people for their beliefs. Who are the nations confronting Germany, Austria and Canada for their roles in these grave injustices? There are none.

In fact, many are following these nations’ example. In France, Bruno Gollnisch, a professor at Lyon University, deputy leader of the extreme right French party, National Front, and a member of the European parliament, is facing charges before a French court for Holocaust revisionism. The charges relate to comments made in October 2004 suggesting the existence of Nazi gas chambers was “up to historians to decide.”

However obscene one might deem the opinions of Zundel and Irving, their decision to speak their minds does not impinge on the freedom of others. The prosecuting governments, however, have the official capacity to deny people their freedom by rounding them up for the crime of publicly expressing scandalous beliefs. And Germany, Austria and Canada have taken full advantage of this authority.

The Nazis developed a policy of intimidation. The wrong comment overheard by a Nazi official could have dire consequences. Hitler’s police state worked on the rule that if you said nothing, no harm could come to you. If you had doubts about the way Germany was going, you kept them to yourself—or paid the price.

The Nazis practiced an extreme form of totalitarian control. Today’s enforcement of anti-hate speech laws obviously does not compare to what occurred in Nazi Germany. But the control exercised by these modern-day governments is founded on the belief that states have the fundamental right to punish individuals or groups who dare to say what the overwhelming majority of people might believe is preposterous.

In remembrance of the millions of people who died at the hands of the Nazis and their confederates, governments should be exerting less control over their populations, not imprisoning people for expressing their belie

http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/ful...irving01062006/


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Posted: Feb 6 2006, 04:07 PM
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Denial laws are only a portion of the anti-nazi laws. One of the reasons why these laws exist is because Facist/Nazi scum still exist. To permit pro-nazi propaganda would encourage such filth to proliferate and we know what they did last time. Another reason is to ensure that the world knows that ex-Axis countries are serious in expunging their sordid past and are part of the rational world.
Except Japan of course. The Japanese are still refusing to come to grips with their bestiality and should be shunned world-wide.

The Germans would like to get rid of military conscription because they feel that its days are over. The problem is that the removal of so many ordinary men would upset the balance of the army in that many of the volunteers are actually closet nazis because facist morons are drawn to potentially violent opportunities for all the wrong reasons. Without the balancing effect of decent Germans, the nazis would be more able to form secret military cabals and threaten the effectiveness of the army. There are even secret nazis in the German officer corps to this day and the German army maintains a never-ending campaign to identify and remove them.

I know a man who was used for German medical experiments. He has the tattoo and the bayonet scars for proof. He escaped when he was fifteen by killing the guard who smiled as he took him into the woods to execute him. What a childhood eh? Even if not one Jew was murdered, the other crimes committed in the camps by the Nazis are enough to ensure their eternity in Hell. Don't forget that Slavs, Serbs, mental patients, homosexuals and the pacifist Jehovah's Witnesses were also taken to their deaths. Do ALL these groups lie? Of course not! Quibbling about numbers is just so much smoke screen....an immeasurable crime was committed irrespective of any number crunching or spin-doctoring.

WWII is not over and never will be until nazis go the way of the dodo.




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Posted: Nov 18 2006, 12:50 PM
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Ugliozzi, you took the words out of my mouth.

Also--We all have to realize to that the Jewish Nation aren't the bad guys.. The Zionists hiding behind them are the troublemakers.


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This post has been edited by Boldylocks on Nov 18 2006, 12:51 PM


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