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> The Kingdom, Nope, this isn't JW junk


King of the Mountain
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Posted: Dec 11 2004, 06:03 PM
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Since this disappears wherever it's put, maybe it will be welcome here.


The Kingdom

I’ve been talking of doing this for some time so, since I was awakened today with the topic pressing upon me I suppose today is the day. :angel I went back and grabbed some of the things I have written in the past to save a little effort on my part as well as give those who have not read or understood these things a chance to get up to speed. For those who have not read the attached material I suggest that you do to help you understand what I will be saying. Inherent in this discussion is the understanding of two major pieces of the Kingdom, the Wife of God and the place where they exist together, Zion.

Now Zion is also called the “sheepcote” and the pathway to such today is “narrow” and few find their way. This is for a good reason currently as that this particular section of this age is specifically set up to only allow the rulers of the millenium to make it through “the door”. Therefore, the Truth to this set of coming “rulers” is presented in parable form and piecing together the picture I will paint for you here is tedious work of which only those who love the Truth will labor to assemble.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Luk 12:31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.


To this end most have been deceived into thinking that “seeking the Kingdom” is being good, going to church etc, all of which are nothing more than busy activities which were designed to keep the same from ever finding the Kingdom. It is for this reason so many stand in front of Him at His return confused as to their standing with Him after spending their entire lives “prophesying”, “casting out demons” and doing “great works”. Because finding the Kingdom takes STUDY and courage and love of the Truth, all things in short supply with most these days. If you will notice the verses above, the word “seek” means “to gain understanding”, understanding which Jesus spoke openly to His disciples.

Anyway, the Kingdom as you might have guessed is exactly that, a Kingdom and is structured in that manner. The notion that everyone is the same in the Kingdom as long as you “make it” is yet another lie from Lucifer, a lie which was also part of the original rebellion which had as it’s core basis envy and jealousy on the part of the rebellious. And of course, these are still what is driving what goes on today and ultimately will be an issue of great debate during the millenium in which this group, “leviathon” will be imprisoned but still open to teaching.

Having said that, let me paint the picture of the Kingdom “family” prior to it’s rebellious fracturing. Jesus, the Son of God, the ONLY Son of God rules, and has always ruled over the creation. He is the ONLY begotten Son of God and was manifested for the sole purpose of allowing God the Father to directly interface to His creation, a creation that was orchestrated through the Son. As such, He sits on His thrown and through the Son ALL knowledge flows, knowledge of judgement and discernment as to the governing of the entirety of humanity. From Him do those who “flow down” this “righteousness”, “rightness” seek this understanding for the purposes of doing their many specialized jobs. Initially you see the picture of Lucifer “flowing” this knowledge from Him to the “stones of fire”, the next level administrators, “magistrates, Strong’s #430, who themselves flow through levels of command to the entirety of humanity.

Now, then, as now, as future, the byproduct of “free will” is “vanity” of thought. By definition, a creation of “free will” is exactly that and therefore at any time can choose to entertain pure nonsense of thought should he/she so desire. It is for this reason that the Kingdom is structured as it is so that the entirety of the “body” of God functions much like a body that we observe here. His “body” like ours deals daily with “cancer”. Cancer to God’s body is this “vanity” of thought, the leading astray of those to conclusions devoid of Truth. And much like our body, God’s body has an “auto immune system” namely Israel. Israel’s job has been and always will be the same, to flow the “olive oil” of God’s knowledge and therefore “verdicts” (righteousness) to all of humanity. It is exactly this operation taking place which Jacob was of witness when he saw the “staircase” from heaven with those going about their work ascending and descending, bringing understanding and rightness to the “rivers” of humanity, the “valleys” the “dark valleys”.
Now, note needs to be made here that the reason the cancer of God's body became so threatening to Him here is that, much like our own body, the cancer manifested in the very system which normally eliminates it, Israel. And this cancer started way up at the top, so therefore it's spread was unstoppable in the current state of the creation without simply exterminating a whole lot of God's children. It was for this reason that God collected His children back to Himself and presented this age of "salvaging/salvation" by which to pull them back to Himself. And it is from Him that each of those of the age past are mandated to “pass through the water” of childbirth to be “born again”. Notice yet again the verification that indeed you have been born in “heaven” prior to your second birth here. It is this that Jesus was having the discussion with Nicademus concerning being “born again”. Few ever bother to read on in the discussion which implodes any notion that this was a “spiritual” discussion, namely:

Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Here Jesus is clearly telling us that this topic of discussion isn’t “spiritual” as so many wrongly conclude, because if it were the very verse above would have those who were “born again” able to move about without being seen or heard, an ability which I have yet to see exhibited by those claiming such. :lol


Now, this “nation” Israel, is called by Jesus, “His Heirloom”, “His peculiar people”. But more than that, they are called “family”, family that “prefers” one another’s company (who else would want it. :lol ) and family that is in every sense of the term family. This Family is much like the family you know here, Family with lineage, brothers, sisters, husbands, wives, sons, daughters as well as grandfathers, grandmothers. Now, there are obviously differences in this family as shown by Jesus. Husbands and wives are not “given in marriage” in the way that they are here, because there, much like Adam and Eve, every pair is specifically generated by the family lines as perfectly matched pairs who are simply appointed by God as husband and wife. This eternally permanent arrangement is that which so many seek to replicate here. Many are searching for their “soul mates” and search they will because it is very rare for any to find such here. As a matter of fact, most who think themselves to have found their “soul mate” generally have not but instead someone from a closely approximated lineage who is close enough to generate some of the “connection” activities which are the norm between God mated people.

And yes, in much the same way as here, this family “grows” and gets bigger. These family lines, decked out in multidimensional bodies that never fade or die etc., have sexual relations much in the same way as here. The fallen angels which banned together and came here did that which they normally do with “heavenlies” with the “daughters of man” here. No, they didn’t somehow strap on penises for the special occasion. :lol For this reason the talk of “growing His flock” by Jesus means exactly that, His flock grows in the same way as a flock here and for the same reasons.

Therefore, these permanent family lines, family lines which probably have little correlation to what we see here are the bedrock of the structure of the Kingdom, and it is this very bedrock which Lucifer violated. The group of fallen angel types are referred to as “Moabites” pointing to incestual relationships in the ranks. This probably has to do with the story of Lucifer and Lillith which would mean that Lucifer had sexual relations with his own daughter Lillith. Of course that may have been the start of the problems but doesn’t necessitate such. As stated earlier, the main driver of the rebellion was envy and jealousy between the rebellious and the rest of the family. So, as a result of the rebellion, many top level family types lost their wives, parents, brothers, sisters etc as the wave of “envy” swept from Lucifer down. Eternal connections broken, hearts rended, everlasting lives torn and devastated. It is through this that I have come to understand two dream series which I repeatedly dream in which I am deeply mourning the loss of my parents and wife. I have been witness in these dreams to my then “wife’s” willful seduction by another and the resultant heart rending sorrow which I feel in these dreams knows no equal here. I cannot write words here which translate the depths of personal anguish that I feel in these dreams, so intense are these feelings. I suspect many also have these lost connections with which to deal and may have these same type dreams and not realize their meaning. For me personally I have been shown that I was “generated” a replacement wife. I suspect that that is the manner in which these rifts of the rebellions will be “healed” since perfect matches cannot simply be grabbed from neighboring “riftees”. :lol

Now I alluded to a “connection” earlier which I have come to understand exists between each of these perfectly matched pairs that God joins as husband and wife. The “connection” as I call it joins the two at the heart where we all are currently attached into these meat suits we call bodies via “silver chord”. :lol This “connection” is a highway of emotion between the two, a conduit of desire for closeness and sharing. This very connection may even be the means of thought transmission there much like we “speak” to one another here. In any event, the connection is a two way street which yearns for the other in much the same way that God yearns for the same from each of us. These things are given to His creation in His never ending offering of examples highlighting His desire for the children of His creation.

Speaking of creation, it is this very same “Family” Israel who is tasked with the maintaining of the creation. From the rising of the sun, to the carrying of the Truth to the extremities of the “body”. Why? Because through these activities the participants gain even more “vision” as to the person of God and Son. Through all of these things we all are given sight to Him, His desires, and ultimately His feelings. Those of us with loses understand how He grieves for His children who have left him, much like those who apparently have left me. And with this understanding grows closeness between you and Him, like a Wife who grieves with Her Husband, who feels what He feels and sees what He sees and ultimately, as stated in the Book of Enoch, “thinks what He thinks”.

For all the above reasons, the Word shows ALL of the direct physical interactions between God, Strong’s 3068 and His creation to be carried out by gods, strong’s 430 or “magistrates”. These again are those seen working the staircase between the throne and God’s body as seen by Jacob. Currently this working body is known as God’s Wife and it is She who is evenly mixed here to go about the task of harvesting the “Bride”. The Bride are those who watched the battle from the sidelines or got pulled into activities of the rebellion like horse trading or spouse ditching etc. They aren’t the drivers of the rebellion but rather those who got sucked into it’s nonsense. By far the largest element of the Bride are those who did nothing during the war of the rebellion. They neither participated in the activities or traded horses but neither did they take issue with the heart rending which the others were inflicting upon our Father. They were those who were “luke warm”, those who had become more interested in the nifty “things” of our then relatively new “playground” presented to them by our Father, those who over time came to love the things of the time more than their Creator. They were those, much as now, who concern themselves with the ornementation of their surroundings and the gaining of personal status. From this gone astray group of the Kingdom, the Wife is ever searching for those to whom She can “gather” as a “sheave”. Her heart is towards them as She goes about this loving task in “tears”, as she works the “vineyard” under the intense heat of the sun. A work which prior to the millenium yields relatively few who will make it through the “door”, a few who will be required to teach the enormous numbers of the millenium, their own family lines first down. Then, as clearly stated in Isaiah and elsewhere, the “second harvest” will take “hiways” to hold those who come back to Him whereas the “first harvest” was traveled as a path which few found.

When you read, look for these themes, you will see them everywhere because it is this image which the parables are painting. You will see the activities of these elements and the expected actions taking place between them without error.






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Auspice Christo
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Posted: Dec 11 2004, 06:05 PM
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The Wife

I apologise for giving the wrong answer in chat last night concerning the Wife as She relates to the 144,000. The 144,000 who are getting sealed prior to the 4 winds getting turned loose are in fact the Wife present in the world currently. IMO that activity is currently under way and very very very very (did I use enough verys ) close to completion. The fact that the angels are directly intervening and stacking the deck so to speak is the largest indicator that in fact this is the Wife. Because, during this age, only non-free will (the Wife) types are allowed to be actively and directly prodded. (Think getting blown off your horse by a bright light etc. ) So, if you're in this group, don't get the big head. It's not so much that your that smart (although your greatest character trait is your absolute lust for the Truth. So that does make the task a bit easier.), it's more that He gets to use a big stick on you openly.

Keep in mind that the 144,000 are representative of the blood genetic portion of Israel only and does NOT constitute the entirety of pure genetic Israel present at this time but rather shows you the Wifely content. Due to Her efforts many more Israelites as well as many other ethnos/nations will be "salvaged" from this hell hole we all know as Babylon the not so Great.

Now, getting back to the Wife present currently, the 144,000 tells you the percent break down of Her presence in terms of genetic pure Israel. What this number does not tell you is the accompanying number of the Wife which is found among the other ethnos. The Wife shown in heaven in chapter 12 of Revelation is the entire makeup of the Wife and represents Her entire body, the current body of Christ. Portions of Her have been uniformly mixed through the timeline of this current age. Think of the Israelite portion as Her nervous system.

That is the reason that once these members are sealed that the crowd of those shown directly after their sealing is so much bigger than 144,000. Therefore the effort of "sealing" foreheads is not limited to pure genetic Israel but also includes those here of other ethos or nations. Once this effort is complete, the "tribulation" show begins starting with Trump # 1 IMO. From that time going forward the Wife is operating in full gear (pun intended Also think of the full armor here) reeling in the catch. The crowd shown representing their efforts is then shown a few chapters later in Revelation. It is this group, the current Wife AND those she has been utilized to salvage who will be reigning during the Millenium and wielding the "rod of iron". It is the group comprised of these TWO types who will enter in to the wedding feast which takes place at the beginning of the millenium.

These two groups are shown in Revelations 2:9 and 3:9. Those of 2:9 must endure "even unto death" to then receive her crown while the Wife of 3:9 ALREADY wears her crown currently that she still has from earth age el numero uno. She is exhorted to hang on to her crown. And considering whats comming, she's gonna have to hang on tight or those four winds will blow it off Her head. (Naw, not possible )




The Wife are those who openly fought for God in the first age. Therefore, they are "justified from the foundations of the world". That's why the already wear their crown of eternal life here now in the flesh. They are not part of the divorcing action that you are describing for those He married at that time that He ultimately divorced, were free will types which He married on condition of their faithfullness. These are not justified from the foundation of the world.

The Elect/Wife is not simply white Israel but rather white Israel makes up a portion of the Wife, and in like manner, a small part of white Israel here has individuals from the Wife evenly distriuted through the masses. Their work is to uphold the positive side of the Plan of God. The Wife is the antithesis of the Kenite. I suspect both sides are protected by God.


Philidelphia are the Wife/Elect and Smyrna are those she is collecting for Her Husband to "marry". Actually, the Wife is distributed fairly evenly time wise through this age. These verses in Rev. are pointing that fact out again and giving you more insight into the relationship. If you look under the word "strength" which those of Philidelphia have you'll find that the Wife has "a little" miraculous power.

Once I was made aware of this theme I have found that most of the Word specifically talks to His Wife directly. Notice that it is the Wife's feet which He makes the kenites to lick at that time "to show how much He has loved Her." These are those that no one can take from His hand. They are God's gift to Him. Those who will follow Him ANYWHERE.



The 144,000 are ALL part of the Wife. These are strictly the pure blood Israel section. That's why at the end of of Chapter 7 we read:

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Now if you look a little further down for more description we find:

Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.


Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. (Wife's don't get married, Brides get married)


Notice that these "washed" their robes during the tribulation. Therefore, in order to wash their robes during the tribulation that means that they already had them just as they also had their crowns from the first age. Just as they were required to hang onto their crowns their "robes" and more specifically "their works" needed cleansing from the worldly influence with "the blood of the Lamb".

So, all in all, this large crowd, "too big to number" is the representation of the Wife/Elect here going into the tribulation with Her representatives of ALL nations. So those of you out there who may have gotten a little too focused on the true identity of Israel, keep in mind your ethnicity DOES NOT exclude you from this group.

I'm not implying that true Israel is somehow less but rather that She has her place as well as all races. As I've said before, think of true Israel as the nervous system of His Body. Their main function has always been and will continue to be the transmission of the thoughts, emotions, Laws and feelings of our Saviour Jesus Christ to the entirety of the Body. In this case His Body being the entirety of the Wife. This Body will be greatly expanded AFTER the millenium which INCLUDES the expansion of the nervous system also.

That is why we see the Tree of Life planted by the waters comming from His throne even AFTER this age. Notice the "leaves" on this "Tree".

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.


LEAVES

G5444
φύλλον
phullon
fool'-lon
From the same as G5443; a sprout, that is, leaf: - leaf.

G5443
φυλή
phulē
foo-lay'
From G5453 (compare G5444); an offshoot, that is, race or clan: - kindred, tribe.

I'll let you guess which "tribe" it is which directly hangs from the "Tree" for the "healing" of the nations even AFTER the "Great White Throne Judgement".

Vanity of thought is a continuous "problem" with free will and will continue to be a "problem". The problem that has been solved by this time is the lack of ability or refusal to "repent" of one's vanity of thought as was/is the case for Lucifer.

Quote:

So who is the bride and what is their function?



I answered this somewhat above but I will reiterate here. The Bride gets married into the Body of the Wife at the beginning of the millenium. She then functions as the Wife.

Here is the description of the Wife + Bride just before the "Cup of Wrath" gets poured out on all those left in the flesh on the earth at that time.

Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Rev 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvelous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Rev 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.


Quote:

ANd it just hit me. Why are the flesh lines so important to God? ITs the spiritual that originally rebelled, and teh spiritual that we are striving for at the end of our lives. So why is the flesh line so important?



The sons/daughters of God were made in His image. That image requires the seven different types/races to complete. The flesh approximations here are just that, approximations of the likeness. The different types are important to Him in the same way the different parts of your body are important to you.

Your spirit is the same now as previously. If you were openly rebelling then you are more than likely rebelling now. The flesh allows for you to recieve consequences personally to your spirit in a training/teaching environment where you can suffer and therefore learn to understand consequences and therefore wisdom and understanding. The multidimensional body does not experience any of these things therefore limiting certain areas of development in your spirit.


Quote:

And further more, do you suppose when God made Israel his chosen people that he chooses each and every one from those who stuck by him before the foundations of the world? ANd if that is true, then why so many problems with Israel in the flesh, over and over again?



Israel is but one section of His body. They are His "inheritance" and are created for service and intimate purpose to Himself. They, by definition, are "the least" in the Kingdom. Also, Israel is such a "problem" child for the reason just stated. They had trouble then understanding that His creations with "enhanced" capabilities DID NOT give them license to arrogance and personal "godness". Those with the greatest "designed in" capacities in "heaven" are considered the "least". They are the "servant" of the rest. EXACTLY the opposite as seen here, just as one should expect.

Quote:

Is there a time in history that more bad souls (from the foundation) or more good souls where put on the earth? Is there a reason? I personally think more bad is here now.



Ratiometric mixing of "bad" versus "good" souls is generally even as stated in the three lumps of dough representing the three earth ages (notice that this does not apply to the mixing of the bad. Apparently we get "swarmed" from all sides by them. ). Here the "leaven" analogy is shown as the Wife/Elect being "leaven" which is evenly distributed through the three ages. Here, at this time, the best of His army have been reserved for this final conflict in that "The last shall be first and the first shall be last." In warfare good strategy would suggest that one would save their best for events which are more extreme than any seen "since the foundation of the world".




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Posted: Dec 11 2004, 06:07 PM
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Parable of the Mustard Seed

Here's my take on the parable of the mustard seed:

Mat 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

Mat 13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.


Notice that the mustard seed parable is followed directly thereafter by yet another parable which describes the even mixing of the "elect" (The Wife) of God through the three earth ages.

IMO, the mustard seed parable is the descriptor for the planting of the "elect" (The Wife) here in the field. Notice that previous sowing parables which have the owner of the field (We know who that is) sowing general "sons" as "wheat" and additionally we have Him "allowing" the sowing of the sons of Satan, but no where is the topic of the sowing of the "Wife" covered but here in the mustard seed.

Keeping that in mind, now apply everything you know about the mustard seed as an herb, it's impermeability to radiation and change and it's general tenacity and ultimately it's power to offer lodging even as a tree. Also, notice the "faith" as of the mustard seed which would allow one to "cast mountains"(belief systems) into the sea. It's got Wife written all over it eh?




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Posted: Dec 11 2004, 06:13 PM
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The Garden of Your Mind

Anyway, I'm going to attempt to connect some of the common imagary in the Word which are painting the same picture but using different brushes and colors so that you'll develop a 3D model in your noggin. (Forehead for you purists )

Firstly, let's go back to the beginning of everything. God creates His Son, Jesus who in reality is the only "begotten" and different from the "created" sons in that way. Jesus is in essence THE extended interface made to not only create the rest of creation as we know it but also to then interface to that creation. Jesus, through His Holy Spirit, intimately dwells with and in us but only if we willingly open the doors to our souls/mind to Him.

Initially, in the dimensional "earthless" realm where we origianlly intimated with Jesus/God, our minds/souls were focused on Him and apparently everything was going "swimmingly". THEN, God makes the earth for the enjoyment/entertainment of His sons/daughters. And over a period of time several "problems" developed.

In this new realm of "things" the original sins were germinating. Namely:


Merchandising....The ole horse trading and gain of status with the resultant "ripping off" of His sons of that which He had given each one.

Vanity and Arrogance....the flipping of the structure of Heaven by which one, such as Satan, who is created with extra abilites, begins to see himself in exactly the opposite light in which God intends. In heaven, those created with the most capacity and beauty are considered "the least". Why? Well, because they are the servants/waiters of ALL. Exactly the opposite of here, the most gifted there are created as such FOR A REASON, and it's NOT to get all full of one's self.

And the biggest most widespread sin which is detailed but not named in a word is the corruption/degradation of the gardens of the hearts and minds of the sons of God in general. This occurs when a son or daughter allows external "things" of the creation to over run their hearts and minds. Kind of like a beautiful garden which when totally unattended gets over grown with weeds and ultimately becomes a wasteland that certainly our Lord has NO desire to visit.

Now let me eplain something about us which illustrates what I am attempting to point out. The sum total of a son/daughter of God is a spirit/soul which over time developes a collective memory or mental garden if you will. It is precisely this mixture of spirit/personality and developed collective memory which in fact Jesus/God desires to have intimate connection.

This is in fact the "garden" of the Shulamite girl in the "Songs of Solomon" which the Lord so loves to visit. And in this garden are many things which are so near and dear to His heart. What are they you ask? Well, the garden of the mind/spirit of this Shulamite girl (Really His Wife) is FULL of things which SHE loves!!! If you stroll through it's walkways you will see each rock and plant lovingly attended. The brooks just so so. All of these things I am describing are the knowledge of Him.

Yes, she works in the vinyard no doubt, BUT it's from the strength of the garden of her mind from which she operates. Hear Him describe her mental/collective beauty and knowledge of His ways. It's pretty steamy.

OK, now that we have the image in part of the garden He LOVES to visit, now let's have a look at the typical garden of Babylon.

Let's shove open the gate here........could you give me a hand? Man this things rusted. Anyone got a machete? OK, we're in. Well, undoubtedly, there's plenty of info here. It's no storage capacity problem!! But, hoky smokes Batman, get a load of this data. Endless reams on sports statistics, movies, and TEEEEEEEVEEEEEEE OMG!!!! IT'S A MOUNTAIN!!!

But hey, what's this eeenssey tiny thingy. Waaaay over here, under this pile of........eeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwww

OK, that's enough looking in there. I hope you get my point. Men fill their minds/souls religiously with THINGS THEY LOVE. That's why there's absolutely NO way to fool our suitor Jesus. Just as you know when someone doesn't love you, He also in infinite detail knows the more.

So, having filled in the back ground let's take a look at the common thread of the descriptions given us.

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The wilderness is the world of vain thought possesed of men. Her "place" is that sheepfold and Zion. What are they? They are the destination of understanding in which His Wife now knows Him and therefore His Plan.

That's why you see all the "etchings" of the Psalms and ultimately of ALL the Scriptures. They are here to take the Wife to Her place prepared by Him. This place of understanding is where She operates from.

Take a look at the many deep layered meanings to Zion and see if what I am telling you is truly the case. That's why some one who is desolate is described as a destroyed city with broken down walls etc. Their mind/garden is totally unattended and the vanities of mens' thought pollute the entirety.

Well, that's it for now, There's much more, but I'm loosing steam.


Quote:

I love the word 'delight.'



So does He. Of course, so does your husband for that matter. It's no secret when someone "delights" in your presence. And it's not that He's (Jesus here) some egomaniac about a garden adorned with images of Himself but rather the fact that the Wife so loves Him as to collect them.




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Posted: Dec 11 2004, 06:20 PM
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The Eternal Covenant and the Prime Vector of the Rebellion

<<It was helpful for me to get in my mind the Serpents seed line from the "realsin" link, and also the "star wars" link that Dee posted some time back.>>


Careful on this one because so many get totally fixated on this topic. This is but only part of the working element of Lucifer's camp. In actuality, Lucifer doesn't even think that much of them. For him, they are but a necessary crutch. Some of them are starting to figure this out, that is why they have pointed all their newest weaponry into space in an attempt to block his arrival. They may or may not know that it is a collasal waste of time. Lucifer and company will flood over this world like a tidal wave over a dingy.


<<It all came to me before I read your thread. The other day, I connected the Pharasee, whose father is satan to the pharasee who wrote Romans through Hebrews. Same father! It broke my heart the deception Satan has played on believers.>>


Yes, three seperate accounts of a "miraculous conversion" on the way to kill more Christians and all accounts are different. In a court of law, that's called LYING. In "christian" churches, it's called "genius". LOL

The whole ruse was spelled out years in advance by the head Pharisee of the day that "it is expedient that one man should die for all". No, that wasn't his "prophesying" that was his musing and the beginning of the heresy to be sent aginst the true teachings of the Apostles some 21 years later. This same notion of a "god" coming to "die for everone" was seen first in the most ancient texts of Egypt as presented by those leading the rebellion. The very notion of such wrongly removes the responsibility from the "believer" for their own actions.

So, it is very easy to see that even the polluted teachings of Jesus as seen in texts presented by these very same "scribes and pharisees", still retains a lot of the very notion that your future destiny resides on your actions now, not some "free ride" determined by a one time "decision". If this were even remotely the case, do you not think Jesus Himself would have simply stated as much? No, He did not, not even in their polluted garbage.

The fact is simple, the Kingdom is about "perfection" but rather maturity, the maturity required by those allowed to handle the great power then placed upon them to SERVE those below them. It's really very simple.


<<Godīs covenant was an "everlasting" covenany, if Iīm not mistaken. Paul negated that covenant by replacing it with "grace". It took the emphases off of Jesusī words, which were Love, Love, Love!>>


Yes, it was EVERLASTING, not some "old testament" mistake as presumed by modern day Luciferion "christians". The Divine Laws are "easy" and the yoke of such is "lite", quite the contrast to the lies presented by Paul.

Yes, Paul's "mission" was to unhitch the 7 churches in Asia from the very Divine Laws they were to follow. And no, the laws as presented in Deuteronomy and Leviticus are craftily translated and they had been the focus of "scribing" by this same group long before Jesus showed up. That is the reason that the "Masoretic Text" exists, a group fully realized the truth of what I state hundreds of years before the arrival of Jesus.

I'm sure most would reel in horror to hear that God Himself NEVER commanded anyone to physically chop off the forskin of their penis. The very directive itself was presented to Abraham and was about "keeping your dick in your pants" in regard to the other nations around them. This directive was shown AFTER the symbolic "sacrifice" wherein a young MALE calf, a young FEMALE calf and young FEMALE Goat are all displayed chopped in half and obviously dead.

The next symbol placed in context with these were a dead dove and a dead pidgeon. Here is what the whole symbol represents:

The severed bodies of the male and female calf are representative of the men and women of the upper Kingom. The female goat represents the main insurgent planned destroying force to the Kingdom. Those in the lower estates here on earth were purposely utilized for their beauty to infiltrate and pollute the upper power structure aimed at destabilization and power grabs.

The two birds, the dove and the pidgeon are the two symbols for relationships in the Kingdom. The dove represents the relationship of the eternal mating between those of the upper Kingdom whereas the pidgeon is the resulting dirty polluted relationship imparted due to the forbidden cross breeding between those of the upper Kingdom and those of their charge below. Herein is THE main mode of attack Lucifer utilized/utilizes for the conquest of that which he otherwise would have no power. The final result of this tactic rends these bonds between their "flesh" in two as demonstrated. But not only with that which was established by God, but also those of their charge, the "goats". Notice even the pidgeon is dead. That was the object lesson, not some silly requirement to lay dead animals in front of the Self Existent One to "attone for one's sins".

Therefore, you now understand WHY God put the spirits from this group to come here in ruddy man for the purposes of testing and to determine who would, regardless of what his peers may think, GUARD THIS WALL. (as God calls it) The stability of the upper Kingdom HAS to be maintained in this way and seperation between the rulers and those ruled upheld at ANY cost.

Lucifer will once again use this mode of infiltration at the end of the Millenium and, believe it or not, be hugely successful AND will devastate virtually all of Israel there once again with the exception of those who overcome the Beast now.




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Posted: Dec 11 2004, 06:39 PM
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Open Kingdom Discussion


<<***what, from that point on stops you from sinning?***

Knowledge.>>

Now, where did one "saved by grace" get knowledge? Vulcan mind meld? Nope, no free rides here Nolo, if you didnīt get the knowledge here, you wont have it there. I will say this though, your answer "knowledge" is correct. The problem with your answer, as I was pointing to above, is, that without some form of "magic" on Godīs part, the people you reference are lacking what you are pointing to.



<<As we are the object lesson to the angels of the Mystery of Salvation...and a demonstration of the depths of His love...>>



Nope, you are no different than an angel, a "messenger" is a job title, not a creation directive. If youīll notice in Revelations that John is informed of such on his visit. "Get off your knees, you are one of us." That was an "angel" that said those words. There is no "mystery" of salvation.



<<So also is satan an object lesson to us on the results of the desire to be totally independent and self-willed.>>



Satan wont be the ultimate "object lesson" until the entire universe watches as "god" boy turns to ashes in front of everyone, never to "be" again. As for being "totally independent", is not Scarlette "totally independent" and ocassionally "self willed"? And isnīt that exactly what it is about her at times that you love? All of Godīs children are "self willed", thatīs exactly what he loves about them. The thing that is unacceptable is brazen knowing violation of His Laws, Laws which are "light" as Jesus said. Funny how something so "light" would be so impossible eh? Really, ditch that Paulian garbage.



<<We all will have tried life both ways...as sinners, and as perfected...the choice to remain with will be obvious...>>


I think your missing a "will" up there, but, nonetheless, you will ALWAYS have your will, if you donīt youīve become Godīs "blow up doll". All of this has to originate with YOU or it is of absolutely NO meaning to Him, thatīs why He gave you free will in the first place.



<<In some ways, itīs one of the reasons why things are so tough here, and why the apparent unfairness of the innocent having to suffer is all around us.>>



Not at all, itīs all so each an every person can grow, and the only way to grow is through suffering. Thatīs why God is constantly chiding those in the OT (I know, passed away, no really itīs not) about rejecting His "goading". His "goading" is this very same suffering you are bemoaning, the very thing which ultimately matures the very spirits we are discussing, not some magical "blood bath" event which magically "changes" them aka Paul, the liar. Again, if you could hit a girl that you wanted to love you with a magic wand that would make her love you, would you?



<<We develop the īmind of Christī; and as such, a return to sinning would be like knowing how to drive an Indy racecar, and then suddenly getting a hankering to return to the days when you didnīt know how to ride a bike.>>


I would almost be encouraged with this part if I didnīt know you were just talking out of the other side of Paulīs mouth. In one breath itīs about working to "develop the mind of Christ", to "run the race" and then with the next breath itīs "all works are filthy rags". Really, how do you people listen to this idiot?



<<It would be like saying, "Gee, Iīd like to be stupid-psychotic, handicapped-crippled, ugly-mutilated, and lonely-isolated. I wish I could just sit bored in utter darkness and go slowly insane. I wish never a good thing to happen to me and only know pain as a companion.">>



Thereīs an entire group posturing themselves to just exactly that. Really Nolo, you have to decide to love God, not what He can give you. But, Iīll say this, at least the above hates God for what He represents rather than hypocritically saying they love because of what they hope Heīll give them. Really, how would you feel if Scarlette married you for you money? Think about it.



<<Sinning due to flaws will be eliminated because there will be no flaws...>>



Nope, sinning isnīt a "flaw" itīs a choice, and there will be a whole lot of choicing in the Kingdom as long as itīs there. The only difference being that then itīs power structure wont be imploded and on "standby". So, tell me, why exactly are there "kings" sitting on "thrones" "RULING with iron rods" in the millenium. Ruling over WHO? And I know you donīt know, do you.

<<Sinning due to temptation will be eliminated because weīll have what we want and need...>>



Indeed youīll have what you want and need, but then again, wasnīt that true for Lucifer? That would be YES!! You are mistaken, there most certainly is "temptation" in the Kingdom, thatīs why you are here. The vineyard that is entrusted to those of the Kingdom is the source of the temptation. Go read Genesis Chap 6 again, thatīs whatīs going on there, again.

<<And the last, sinning due to independence, will have been settled in our ultimate choice in this life.>>


Nope, again, no magic one time "choices", your free will demands you make the same "choice" over and over and over, just like you do every day for Scarlette. You are here to mature spiritually, and itīs no "one shot" deal.

Still, though, if youīll notice, all of your above responses are devoid of anything which does not violate the free will of the "target" person. They all still imply some magic "change" that DOES NO EXIST! For instance, how does one magically manifest this so called "mind of Christ"? Call the "process" what you will, but you and I know, itīs supposedly a "miracle" of God, a "miracle" God could have obviously done before all this happened. If it did, donīt you think God would have simply made you that way in the first place? Think on that one, to suggest otherwise is to think that God somehow "screwed up". I wouldnīt got there.





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Posted: Dec 11 2004, 06:42 PM
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More Kingdom Open Discussion

<<The implications of that statement is that youīll have every bit of the knowledge now in this life that youīll have in the next...or the obverse -- youīll have the same amount of ignorance in the next life...And that is patently false.>>


Not at all, youīll have the knowledge gained here PLUS that which you had before being "formatted" to come here.


<<Impartation of knowledge is even available in limited degree here and now...one of the gifts of the Spirit is Knowledge, or as itīs commonly referred to as īword of knowledgeī.
How much more so when there are no obstructions to receiving knowledge?>>



More magic, Nolo, the Spirit can only help you, not "mind meld" you. Iīm fully aware of what you speak and have been surrounded by those of such for years. None of them have ever displayed said "word of knowledge" yet but rather "word of vanity/imagination". The Spirt assists one in compiling that which they have, not simply pouring facts in your head.


<<Itīs not magic, itīs a gift, like any other gift from Him -- whether it be Mercy, or Love, or anything else.>>


Nolo, these things you are describing are the very things you are here to develop for yourself, not something bestowed upon you. If all this were true, then, why would Jesus be asking you to perform these things yourself? Donīt you think he would simply whack you with the magic to simply make you that way? Itīs a direct violation of free will and thatīs why not even He can do such.



<<1Co:2:16: For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.>>



Put down the chalice of the Great Whore Nolo, itīs nonsense like the above from the false apostle Paul that have modern day "christians" roaring drunk on his Babylonian teachings.



<<We werenīt even created the same way...we are not related beings what so ever. Angels may on occasion take on humanoid bodies, but the physical dimension is not their natural state. Some angels have the duty of messengers, but others simply attend to God...>>

Nolo, you are wrong and the following is just but one of the places that says so:

Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: FOR I AM THY FELLOW SERVANT, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.



<<Satan was an angel, but his job was not as a messenger, but as a covering angel.
Read the story of the angel bringing a message to Daniel...he was hindered until another angel showed up to contest with the power that was delaying the one with the message...Why, if all were messengers, did not the second angel just deliver the message, and leave the original one to do the contesting?>>


Lucifer was the top of the line and his followers are what is refered to as "Satan". Together, with their earthly components, they are "the Beast". The earthly component by itself is the "Leviathon". As for the "power" issues, it is no different than here, when a more powerful ruler sends out a messenger, should the messengerīs power be insufficient to the task, the more powerful will come to his/her aid.


<<Men donīt become angels...Man was created below the angels...Not even close to them on a spiritual level...>>



Yes, men become angels, thatīs the hope Nolo. Typically the first "job" the newly "ascended" do in the Kingdom is that of the "stair worker" as seen by Jacob, delivering "water" to the world. Water is symbolic of the knowledge from above which washes away illusions of deception.


<<Heb:1:7: And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Heb:2:7: Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb:2:9: But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb:2:16: For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.>>


Like I said, put down that cup of the Great Whore, itīs really impairing your driving ability.



<<Heb:1:14: Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?>>



Hereīs something instructive Nolo, try defending yourself without quoting Paul and his buddies lies. Havenīt you ever notice how virtually everything you believe came from this group, the very group regected by ALL 7 of the original churches established by the real Apostles?

2Ti 1:15 This thou knowest, that ALL THEY WHICH ARE IN ASIA be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.


Notice how the only church he physically "worked" in Asia Ephesus was commended for rejecting Paul, the false Apostle with his false apostle buddies:

Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labor, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: AND THOU HAST TRIED THEM WHICH SAY THEY ARE APOSTLES AND ARE NOT, AND HAST FOUND THEM LIARS:!!!



<<Not īone of usī as an angel, but īone of usī as created being. I canīt believe you missed that point...he made it very clear. Only God, the Creator, deserves worship...no created being does...>>


God the Creator has no interest in your "worship" as you define worship. God the Creator wants your devotion to the work of knowing His Divine Laws through understanding, your devotion to your eternal mate and your devotion to your brothers and sisters. In this you show your LOVE of God, not by simply halyhooing occasionally supposedly in His presence.



<<But that leaves you in a quandary to explain why Jesus is worthy of worship...So you redefine Jesus and you redefine worship....>>



No, that leaves you in the quandry to explain why a God who already owns everything and possesses ALL Glory has any interest whatsoever in your supposed "magnification" of such. As stated above, He desires your love shown to Him as outlined above.




<<1Pe:1:12: Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
1Pe:1:10: Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:>>




Nolo, Peter is simply attempting to tell you the same thing Iīm trying to tell you here. You are simply failing to see the picture. Heīs simply pointing out that those who will be "contestants" in the coming "test" to "repair" the Kingdom will be those who will be ruling on the thrones with "iron scepters", the very "salvation/salvaging" of the nations.



<<***All of Godīs children are "self willed", thatīs exactly what he loves about them.***

Mīt:26:39: And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Eph:6:6: Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
1Pe:4:2: That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
Ro:12:2: And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.>>


Again, how does the control of oneīs will somehow mean to you that they have no will of their own or "self will"?



<<It is too bad for some people that Paul spelled out the implications of the Gospel...if not for Paul, then someone else would have...
It makes it quite difficult to twist what the Gospel means...so much easier to get rid of Paul..>>



Sure enough, if Paul would have failed for Lucifer, surely he would have sent another and another. And, regardless, truly he has.



<<*** you will ALWAYS have your will***

Quite true...>>



Really? Then again, what is going to control it without destroying it? Nolo, only you can control it or it is no longer yours?



<<Thatīs what I was saying, the object lessons, some being the suffering of the innocent, some being personal suffering...was one thing...Another thing about them is in growth...And there are other reasons also...I was incorporating unfairness and suffering as just one of the ingredients of object lessons...That is not an isolated reason for them...just one among many reasons.
I wasnīt ībemoaningī them, I know the reasons for them....The world ībemoansī them.>>




Nolo, suffering is suffering regardless said "innocent" state of sufferor. And suffering is simply focused in custom fashion on the souls need in regard to the Kingdom. It is the only way to mature any spirit. Surely you can see this around you?



<<***not some magical "blood bath" event which magically "changes" them aka Paul, the liar***

Mīt:26:28: For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins
Joh:6:53: Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh:6:54: Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh:6:55: For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Joh:6:56: He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Ro:3:25: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God
Ro:5:9: Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Eph:1:7: In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace
Eph:2:13: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Col:1:14: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col:1:20: And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Heb:9:12: Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb:9:13: For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb:9:14: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
1Pe:1:2: Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ
1Jo:1:7: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jo:5:8: And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Re:1:5: And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Re:19:13: And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Heb:10:29: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?>>



Again, notice MOST of your quotes are coming from Paul, the liarīs, group. Most of the other quotes have been "scribed" to say something that was never said. How do I know? I have the "unscribed" versions of the same quotes. Their job of twisting was quite easy really considering what was actually said.




<<1Co:1:18: For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Co:2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co:3:19: For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.>>



Again, all Paul garbage. Notice the pattern?



<<Mīt:5:12: Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven
Col:3:24: Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
Mīt:6:20: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mīt:6:21: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also
Mīt:7:11: If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Only the most one-dimensional of creatures considers love as what they can īgetī out of another...>>



Nolo, all that you have quoted above is sybolically proving my point about knowing him, thatīs what the "treasure in Heaven" IS. Surely you donīt think those at the top there will be there because they just love the feel of gold streets on their feet? Yes, that would be VERY "one dimensional".



<<Undoubtedly, sinning is a choice....Did I say sinning equals flaws? I said some sins DUE to flaws....What prompts the sinning? >>



Well, actually, yes, you did. "Some" sins "Due" to flaws? Youīre just saying that sins are results of flaws with different words. Again, sins are results of either ignorance or willful rejection.



<<Ever heard of the īworld, the flesh, and the devilī? One of the flaws that leads to sinning is embedded in the nature of fallen flesh....the lust of life...>>


Nolo, are you suggesting that your "flesh" in "heaven" will have no "pleasure"? If not, then how could you possibly consider the place "heaven"? Your "spiritual" body generates even MORE pleasure Nolo, not less!! Why do you think the heavenly group did what they did? That, "the flesh made me do it", is just more defeatest Paulian crap.



<<All those born during the millenium.....The Church will be with God, but those that repented due to the 2 witnesses, and the 144000 evangelists, and survived the tribulation, will continue to have children....Who do you think satan influences at the end of the 1000 years to come against God one last time?>>



So, then, I take it that those thrones are going to be pretty boring for a while waiting for those babies to grow up? LOL No, actually Nolo, they are mainly focused on judging those in their ranks in Israel itself. It is then the task of these to maintain those of other nations. Satan yet again beseiges the Kingdom for the last time. And, the whole place, with the exception of those who "overcame the beast" here, now, trips and fall in a most embarrasing manner. Thereīs head knowledge and then thereīs experience, this is where they gain the experience.



<<Thatīs right, and his wasnīt sinning due to a īlackī because he was created perfect...and it wasnīt due to lack of knowledge, he probably had the highest IQ of any creature...
Thatīs why I included the idea of independence and self-will, because that was his sin.>>


Again, if Lucifer didnīt or shouldnīt have his own will, then how would he love God?



<<Independence not as a child steps away from the parent to take his first steps solo, but independence as rebellion, and supplanting the parent with his own sense of direction...Independance as divorce. Self-will as seeking motivations and purposes within the self, for the self -- not self-will as seeking to partnership with Godīs will, adding yours to His.>>



Nolo, Lucifer simply didnīt want to obey the Divine Laws, so he took all that created/developed ability, flipped God off and ran off to where heīs hanging out to this day, soon to return. Nothing "caused" Lucifer to do this, he just decided that he wanted things, namely his own daughter, that he knew his Creator didnīt want him to have. Everything devolved from there. God even attempted to strike down his intelligence etc. for a time. Lucifer briefly repented and then, changed his mind once more. As you might have guessed, heīs had quite a number of chances offered for him to "repent" of his ways. The reply always comes back in the form of a middle finger sign. Itīs not hard to interpret.



<<Really?....try the one time choice to lay down your life....you donīt chose over and over...it is a īone-shotī deal.>>


So, did you grow up all with one choice? That is what you are implying here as well.


<<I chose to live. Do I do that choice over and over? >>


Yes, you do. If not, you would simply kill yourself. Many people have chosen thusly.


<<Perhaps, or is it because I chose to live until my life is taken from me? Does it look like Iīm continually choosing? In a way I am -- but only because I donīt chose the alternative. But one choice determined that constant choosing.>>


Obviously you are not significantly suffering. Were that the case you would realize how unrealistic the above statement is. Those who suffer, every day, chose to live, every day.



<<The one choice of either rebellion or obedience consists of constantly choosing between them...especially here on earth....But the choice of receiving a new spirit from God sets that choice as one of constantly choosing obedience. Just like the choice to set himself up as his own god set Satanīs constant choice of rebellion.>>


If this were actually the case, why didnīt he give you this "autopilot" spirit to begin with? How is it you cannot see there is no such thing as a spirit which does not have to be controlled? What of all the "angels" that followed Lucifer? What happened to their "autopilot" spirits? Do you not understand that what you are suggesting is like saying you want a labotomy here?



<<Really? Then I predict the potential for divorce in your life...
No abrogating or violation of freewill involved in the commitment of marriage...nothing īmagicalī...and yet, the two becoming one flesh......A change, that very much īexistsī.
Have you ever heard of commitment?>>



So, are we switching sides here Nolo? LOL Iīm the "free will has to be matured and developed" guy, youīre the "itīs not possible, give me the magic wand" guy. Youīre a very tricky one Nolo. LOL



<<The īmiracleī, if you will, is the creation of a new person.....the indwelling of the Holy Spirit....the being born again of spirit...>>



I know, since thereīs no way for you to mature and simply obey Godīs Divine Laws, then, out comes that magic Holy Spirit which will turn you into something God dosnīt recognize, labotomy boy. LOL "I hear and obey" bcause "I have no choice". LOL Surely you imagine God seriously being into blow-up dolls.



<<1Pe:1:23: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Joh:3:5: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh:3:6: That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
1Co:2:10: But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co:2:11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co:2:12: Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co:2:13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which manīs wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.>>



All of the above, minus the Paulian crap, is simply telling you of the differences between a flesh body and a multidimensional body, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the spirit which determines the very outward appearnce of said body.



<<That is how you get the mind of Christ.>>



More Paulian crap. Mindless blow up dolls for Jesus who think nothing different that does He. So, does Scarlette have the "mind of Nolo"? LOL Somehow I seriously doubt it. LOL



<<Certainly, could have happened all back in the Garden....could have made the whole thing of the Fall unneccessary>>


Careful Nolo, you are either suggesting that God made a mistake (He didnīt), or that Heīs just a mean bastard that prefers the nasty road to the same destination. Either one of these is mighty insulting to God.



<<.....but if you donīt understand why He didnīt, then you wonīt understand much of the Bible, and probably why you discard huge chunks of it.>>



Nolo, the Kingdom collapsed as EXPECTED. There was no way to mature the original spirits at the top because of the very order these things were created. Therefore, the staircase workers "watchers" thought the suffering to be "too hard" (hey, itīs scary to see if youīve never done it yourself)so, they implemented thier "shortcut" to the "top of the Mountain".

As for "huge chunks" of the Bible, the only ones rightfully chunked in that fashion are those written by the liar, Paul/buddies. The "new testament" has been pooped upon in strategic places to make it look as though Paul was "the MAN!!" The book of Esther was added by those nifty Edomites who just love pitting Israelites against each other aka World War style.


<<All was done according to plan.>>


yes it was and still is, just not the plan you imagine.




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Posted: Dec 12 2004, 05:26 AM
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Saxon:

QUOTE
Nolo, are you suggesting that your "flesh" in "heaven" will have no "pleasure"? If not, then how could you possibly consider the place "heaven"? Your "spiritual" body generates even MORE pleasure Nolo, not less!! Why do you think the heavenly group did what they did? That, "the flesh made me do it", is just more defeatest Paulian crap.


Saxon, I think Nolo is considering the fleshly bodies we inhabit in the here and now. Paul was a great apostle, who died for his faith. Like us, he was trapped in this mortal body, a frustrating place to be because of its vulnerability to all manner of discomfort with its attendant emotional reactions. He said he did things he shouldn't, and did not the things that he should. All the same, he was a trooper and pushed on, encouraging others to do the same. To denigrate the teachings of Paul is to take away from your own.

Jesus said, the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. This mortal body is a prison that has to be transcended, sometimes with sheer will power, but all that He said we have to do is love God with all of our heart, mind, soul, and strength and our neighbors as ourselves. In doing that, we will have fulfilled all the Law and the Prophets. What could be simpler? There are no secrets. Jesus spoke openly and simply where all could understand what the Kingdom is all about. "Except you be as little children....".

You have studied, so have I. There is nothing "mysterious" about spirituality, though some would make it so. Solomon said that he had studied and studied, pouring all he had into studies and, in the final analysis, discovered that to love God and do the commandments was all that was necessary! Let's not forget that he was considered to be the wisest man that ever lived. Too bad he searched for other knowledge of the esoteric kind.

I have always had the greatest respect for Nolo. That guy is a Warrior for Christ. You will never best him in the realm of spiritual things. I've seen him do battle with the "best" of them.

One of the posters on GLP said that Jesus went "balls to the wall" for us. I did a double take on that, but felt a nod of approval from Jesus, for that's exactly what he did. I don't think you can have much more understanding than that unless you don't believe that he is God.

All the best to you, Saxon, as we find our niche in the Kingdom, which is made up of ordinary people just trying to make it through. I will not argue about things of a spiritual nature because, in its simplicity, there is no argument. We've had two thousand years of folks who sought to deliver to others what they found to be the truth, thinking everyone else to be ignorant. So many books! So many sermons! There is no end to it as these, that seek to dissminate their teachings, think in themselves to hold the truth. Solomon said that all is vanity and a chase after the wind.

Knowing that, this forum has been a Godsend, as we are finding out who and what has been in control of our world throughout history, where the enemy is finally being unmasked. PuPP is after them with a big stick!

BJ


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Posted: Dec 12 2004, 03:27 PM
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QUOTE
Saxon, I think Nolo is considering the fleshly bodies we inhabit in the here and now.



No, the discussion Nolo and I were having concerned specifically "what" stopped a "saved" person from sinning once they were in heaven. Specifically the discussion was centered about the bodies there.


QUOTE
Paul was a great apostle, who died for his faith.



That depends upon the story you choose to believe. Like the many "takes" surrounding Hitler and WWII, so are the they varied in regard to this topic.


QUOTE
Like us, he was trapped in this mortal body, a frustrating place to be because of its vulnerability to all manner of discomfort with its attendant emotional reactions. He said he did things he shouldn't, and did not the things that he should. All the same, he was a trooper and pushed on, encouraging others to do the same.



And so has anyone desiring to be taken seriously. The above in no way makes Paul's teaching of "the way" True in any sense.


QUOTE
To denigrate the teachings of Paul is to take away from your own.



In what way?


QUOTE
Jesus said, the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. This mortal body is a prison that has to be transcended, sometimes with sheer will power,



Not exactly. The "flesh" here is but a taste of that which is outside of here. Spiritual bodies generate even MORE pleasure and therefore the desire requires even greater control, not less as virtually ALL christians presume. If this were not the case, then how do you explain the fact that the "fallen ones" from the other side were captured with the desires for the "daughters of men"?


QUOTE
but all that He said we have to do is love God with all of our heart, mind, soul, and strength and our neighbors as ourselves. In doing that, we will have fulfilled all the Law and the Prophets. What could be simpler?




No, He said that the Divine Law was all based on those two things, what He desired/desires from each person depending upon their future part. Simply "fulfilling" the Law of the Prophets is the threshold, not the goal of the "supplanters". This is the very reason that the Disciples were fighing among themselves over who would be sitting in which throne. Those who are to "reign with Him on High" are expected to know significantly more. Everyone at the "banquet" will not be residing on "thrones, judging the nations". This is the reason Jesus spent so much time giving Kingdom parables, to show the way for the supplanters. They are His main focus.


QUOTE
There are no secrets. Jesus spoke openly and simply where all could understand what the Kingdom is all about. "Except you be as little children....".



No, Jesus spoke in parables as a test for those "contestants" who would come later to find the "way". If this were not the case, then why in Revelation and Isaiah as well as others does He specifically say that during the Millenium He will speak PLAINLY and NOT in parables if what I'm saying is not the reality? No, parables were not spoken to make things "easy" for the farmers as so many wrongly assume, but rather they are considered to be "pithy maxims" or "puzzles".


QUOTE
You have studied, so have I. There is nothing "mysterious" about spirituality, though some would make it so. Solomon said that he had studied and studied, pouring all he had into studies and, in the final analysis, discovered that to love God and do the commandments was all that was necessary! Let's not forget that he was considered to be the wisest man that ever lived. Too bad he searched for other knowledge of the esoteric kind.




Solomon was considered to be the wisest man at that time or before. He in no way was more wise than Jesus or many that would come after Him for that matter. That IS what "the first shall be last" means. The word "first" in Hebrew is specifically, the greatest. God is reserving His most "mighty men" for this the last test. As for simply doing the commandments see the above. That's why Jesus is telling yet again another parable about those coming in from their days work thinking that to be enough. From the few, He expects and will get much more. Just remember that should you see them on the throne and not yourself.


QUOTE
I have always had the greatest respect for Nolo. That guy is a Warrior for Christ. You will never best him in the realm of spiritual things. I've seen him do battle with the "best" of them.



Nolo has no understanding of the Kingdom to speak of. He is drunk on the Babylonian wine of "modern day christianity" who is plainly shown riding on the back of the "red Beast" by John in the Book of Revelation. If you will simply ponder her (the Great Whore of mystery Babylon) words you will see modern day christianity.


QUOTE
One of the posters on GLP said that Jesus went "balls to the wall" for us. I did a double take on that, but felt a nod of approval from Jesus, for that's exactly what he did. I don't think you can have much more understanding than that unless you don't believe that he is God.




Jesus did so and by doing so laid down the chalice for those who would come after him for the purposes of supplantation. Isaiah 53 is not simply describing the life of Jesus, it is THE pattern by which all who are destined for said "thrones" will experience life here.


QUOTE
All the best to you, Saxon, as we find our niche in the Kingdom, which is made up of ordinary people just trying to make it through. I will not argue about things of a spiritual nature because, in its simplicity, there is no argument.



And all the best to you also, if I did not think Nolo capable of understanding I would not be wasting my time talking with him. Those of the upper Kingdom will be highly regarded and highly "celebrated" because they, like their God, suffered mercilessly here to over come that which will soon be upon us. Don't be fooled into thinking that the Kingdom is some socialistic society leveled by "grace", nothing is further from the Truth. To think such is to make a mockery of the very Kingdom structure and the ways of God. Do you disagree? Then explain to me why some of His children shine brighter than the sun while some are much less bright? No equalized socialistic "grace" Kingdom in that picture.


QUOTE
We've had two thousand years of folks who sought to deliver to others what they found to be the truth, thinking everyone else to be ignorant. So many books! So many sermons! There is no end to it as these, that seek to dissminate their teachings, think in themselves to hold the truth. Solomon said that all is vanity and a chase after the wind.




Solomon also married hundreds of women who were forbidden to him and was also THE king most responsible for the pollution of the Temple AND the Word of God. Should I then pattern my life around his failures? No, all is not simply "vanity". But rather, simply focusing your thoughts on nothing but those things he pointed to in this life IS vanity. You have missed what he was attempting to tell you. From what you say above, there is no reason to understand anything other than John 3:16, if so, you are greatly mistaken. Hopefully you will in any event be able to overcome that which will soon be put upon you. No knowledge of the Kingdom equals certain failure as the test dictates.


QUOTE
Knowing that, this forum has been a Godsend, as we are finding out who and what has been in control of our world throughout history, where the enemy is finally being unmasked. PuPP is after them with a big stick!




Pupp is a gracious host, and his efforts here are greatly appreciated by myself and many others. In contrast to your espousal above, what someone ultimately understands IS important in regard to KNOWING God regardless how many have come before you getting it "wrong". If this were not the case, then why would so much a ado be made by God pointing to virtually the whole planet of people being "deceived"? You don't think the group standing in front of Him on that day Prophesying in the name of Jesus, Casting out demons in the name of Jesus, and Working great and mighty works in the name of Jesus know about John 3:16 and Commandments I and II? They are confused as to why this was not enough. I am trying to tell you why in advance.




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Posted: Dec 12 2004, 04:53 PM
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Ah, Saxon, so many books, so many teachers, each competing for the minds of men. False teachers do not use scripture to back up their points and so lose credibility. The New Testament is confirmed by the Old. The Word of God is fire-tried seven times, so that at least three times there is a scriptural verse confirming what Jesus said and gave to His apostles. Nothing could be more plain.

I am reminded of the words Jesus spoke when he said to the multitudes (Matt. 11:16,17 and Luke 7:31-33):

"But whereupon shall I esteem this generation to be like? It is like to children sitting in the market-place, who crying to their comapanions say, "We have piped to you and you have not danced; we have lamented and you have not mourned."

Then we have Matt. 18:3 where He says:

"Amen, I say to you, that unless you become converted and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

And again He says in Luke 18:17

"Amen, I say to you that whosoever will not receive the kingdom of God as a child shall not enter into it."

Speaking of John the Baptist, He has this to say in Luke 7:26-28:

"And what went you out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. This is he of whom it is written: Behold I send my angel before thy face, who will prepare thy way before thee.

For I say to you, "Amongst them that are born of women, there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist."

See, Saxon, it is not how much knowledge of the inner workings of the Kingdom of God that will get you into citizenship, but by faith, trusting in the commandments of God and doing them! Yeah, it's that simple.

As for sitting on thrones, you haven't read or, maybe didn't grasp the idea that you might be sitting at the far end of the table. I welcome the day when the 144,000 will rise to heal the nations. They come to serve! And I will be satisfied that God will be glorified in them.

I will not pick apart your fallacious arguments concerning my former post, nor will I reply to more of the same. This does it for me, and was written only for the benefit of others in stating what JESUS said about the kingdom. I imagine that those others could have done a far better job...they have before.

You wrote, "... what someone ultimately understands IS important in regard to KNOWING God regardless how many have come before you getting it "wrong".

And you are here to see that we get it right. Right?

BJ


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Posted: Dec 12 2004, 08:43 PM
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See, Saxon, it is not how much knowledge of the inner workings of the Kingdom of God that will get you into citizenship, but by faith, trusting in the commandments of God and doing them! Yeah, it's that simple.



"know Me, and enter into My rest". All of your "child" quotes were not stand alone teachings but rather responses by Jesus to His own disciples fighting over positions in the Kingdom. If you'll take the time to review the context you will find that the child is being utilized to define the most important in the Kingdom in the same way that the question is asked by Jesus, "who is more important, the one serving or the one being served"? And to "trust" in the Divine Law, it is first required that one realize what that is, and no, simply knowing the fist two commandments is not enough or Jesus would have said that and nothing else as you imply above. Those who enter into the wedding feast are those who "keep", as in guard His Commandments. To know how to do this, one must first understand how these Commandments were overcome in the rebellion. The reason? That's how they will be overcome in the very near future.



QUOTE
As for sitting on thrones, you haven't read or, maybe didn't grasp the idea that you might be sitting at the far end of the table. I welcome the day when the 144,000 will rise to heal the nations. They come to serve! And I will be satisfied that God will be glorified in them.



As well I may be serving the guests, of what concern is that of yours? If I sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself, does that make Him wrong? And many will gnash their teeth on that same day as to the "fairness" of it all, surely there must be a mistake, "but Lord Lord". The Truth? The real Truth is that those in the highest positions have a very unusual combination of attributes, that being uncanny ability alongside their lack of desire for the grandeur of the positions bestowed upon them. They are the children playing in another man's vineyard, who at the end of the day say to the man, "give us your vineyard". And it will be so.

But these positions require the most unusual mixtures of human nature and ability and certainly not just anyone will do, not even the most "innocent" child. Far from it, because therein was the kindling which took the initial rebellion from a candle burning to a mountain on fire.


QUOTE
I will not pick apart your fallacious arguments concerning my former post, nor will I reply to more of the same.



No, what you will not do is attempt to defend yourself against something you know you cannot defeat. As for my "fallacious" arguements, you offer no counter points because you have none and so therefore offer mindless insults to what I am saying.



QUOTE
This does it for me, and was written only for the benefit of others in stating what JESUS said about the kingdom. I imagine that those others could have done a far better job...they have before.



"Those others", ultimately hid behind "cut and paste" nonsense in the way a squid uses it's own ink to evade danger. Nolo attempted to defend himself but constantly found himself defaulting to exactly the point I was making, that of this fabled "magic wand" of Jesus wherein the liar Paul has convinced everyone that somehow Jesus is going to simply change you into something you are not, someone who loves Him enough to change yourself in regard to that which He desires. Therein is the simplicity of the Kingdom in this world, not some mystic Babylonianized magic blood ritual wherein the "volunteer" gets magically transformed into something which directly violates the free will directive. And the same thing which also leaves God with nothing more than volunteered robots. Surely you can see this?



QUOTE
You wrote, "... what someone ultimately understands IS important in regard to KNOWING God regardless how many have come before you getting it "wrong".

And you are here to see that we get it right. Right?



Hard to say. But, if I am wrong, how is that my picture is totally consistent while yours and Nolos constantly falls into the "apologetic" pit? If I were to discuss this with you long enough I'd ultimately back you into the alternate pit of "blind faith", yet another lie of Pauls.

But, I suppose we will never know, because like Nolo, you have already turned tail and run.




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Posted: Dec 13 2004, 03:37 AM
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But, I suppose we will never know, because like Nolo, you have already turned tail and run.


Yep! I run with Nolo, increasing the distance between us and you. BTW, whether Jesus invites me to sit as a guest of honor, or whether I get to sit anywhere at that table, I will be surprised and grateful just to be in His presence. And I wouldn't mind if He asked me to serve those who sit, for it would be an honor to serve those who gave their lives that the truth might live in me. But, who knows. I may be seated at the children's table, being served from the Master's table, by those greater than I. What a privilege! That would be my choice because they have so much to give to us little ones. Guess we'll all find out when the guests are ushered in.

You might be surprised, when the least in the Kingdom is considered, by Jesus (none other than the Master Himself), to be greater than John the Baptist! The guy on the other end of a shovel, working to feed his family, is greater than the greatest among us. Ain't that something!

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Posted: Dec 13 2004, 04:53 PM
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BJ1, let me first say that I'm not in this "pissing" contest with you to simply overcome you with logic or somehow "prove" my worth in the Kingdom. I, maybe unlike yourself, do hope that you will be able to see through what is about to flood over us and therefore be sitting somewhere in the banquet hall. That is why I'm taking the time to discuss these things with you. If nothing else, I hope that you will understand that "the great deception" will ultimately have you standing in the presence of supernatural beings who will look and act like every description you have ever heard of Jesus and those who would be following Him, the Saints. This group will be here saving you and your family from real time galactic events and they are far more capable/amazing than you and many others realize. No, they are not just "highly advanced" beings but rather those of the highest of the "gods" of the Kingdom. Read their descriptions in Ezekiel and Daniel. The description there is that of Lucifer and his buds, not Jesus, the Self Existent One.

Unfortunately, this good cop, bad cop act on Lucifer's part will in fact decimate the ranks of modern day christianity. The description in Matthew is their own and they do not realize why.


QUOTE
The guy on the other end of a shovel, working to feed his family, is greater than the greatest among us. Ain't that something!


You do not understand the assessment Jesus is attempting to tell you in this example set before the disciples. Jesus means "great" in the sense of "most important" NOT "most powerful" of position and stature as you wrongly assume above. The qualifications and requirements levied against those in the positions you are pointing to are identified in Isaiah 53. This chapter identifies Jesus AND those who follow His example fot these positions. To see one of these, look for the most tortured person you know in life. These people are spared nothing in this life and virtually tortured through no fault of their own. They agreed to this before they came here. Generally they are very well hidden. The faces upon those thrones are known to God only whereas humanity will not recognize them. As a matter of fact most who initially see them will "seethe" with envy. Therein is the very reason they are not there instead.

In any event, may the Self Existent One be with you in what is coming and may you "pass the test".




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Posted: Dec 13 2004, 06:22 PM
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SAXON:
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If nothing else, I hope that you will understand that "the great deception" will ultimately have you standing in the presence of supernatural beings who will look and act like every description you have ever heard of Jesus and those who would be following Him, the Saints. This group will be here saving you and your family from real time galactic events and they are far more capable/amazing than you and many others realize.


I realize that Satan and his minions will appear as angels of light...he's been doing it! People are gullible because we want to be trusting and not always on guard, but I believe that Jesus is quite capable of saving what is His. There is none that can take us out of His hand. NONE. We will know, but unbelievers will not unless we warn them...if there is enough time for them to come to belief. As events unfold, surely many will listen.

I think, Saxon, what is happening between Solo and me in these posts is that you don't quite get your point across in sentences like the following, that are hard to grasp what you are trying to get across:

QUOTE
The faces upon those thrones are known to God only whereas humanity will not recognize them. As a matter of fact most who initially see them will "seethe" with envy. Therein is the very reason they are not there instead.


I don't understand what you mean. But I Believe that Jesus meant exactly what He said about the least in the kingdom being greater than John the Baptist, the least being the common man with faith. He said with perfect faith, we could move mountains!

BJ


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Posted: Dec 13 2004, 09:27 PM
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Hi BJ & Saxon, thank you for a most enlightening discussion.

While I agree with you that our purpose here is not to argue or denigrate religious beliefs, I believe that, as an area of study and debate, all religious texts should be considered for analysis, not just the modern scriptures.

I have seen no mention of the Vedic texts or prophesies in these discussions.

Is this because they are considered a fabrication, or part of the 'Great Deception' ?

I think it also behooves us to sort out the supplanted Horus story in regards to the Bible, as well.

Otherwise, people aware of these inconsistencies will not take us seriously.

I also need to take issue, Saxon, with comments on a previous thread regarding averting disasters through prophecy.

You stated that it is only prophecies documented in the (Holy) scriptures that can be trusted, yet there are many examples of disasters being averted through foreknowledge (people warned not to catch planes, impending death etc. )

These may be on a smaller scale than apocalyptic visions, but the mechanism is still the same. Let me know if I misconstrued what you said.

While Bible study is a daunting and arduous task, it is still just a small part if you consider all of the cultures, prophesies and texts (many long lost), in the history of our planet.

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