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> Christian Hall of Shame, Centuries of Mayhem and Madness


Can you dig it?
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Posted: Oct 17 2004, 01:34 PM
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Maybe PuPP could pin a thread for "Christian Bashing" where I wouldn't stumble into a thread that will generate such bigoted responses.


Refer to the very first paragraph of my first post of this thread:

QUOTE
Famous Christians are listed here, Christians from all of history, in the following "Hall of Christian Fame." This is but a very small selection of all who should be mentioned here. Some of them are still celebrated today. Do they represent Christian virtue and holiness? Can they serve as a model of Christian life? Until a few decades ago most Christian leaders would have confirmed this, some even do so today. So the question arises: what is the achievement of these Christians' lives, what is the human race indebted to them for?
I kindly suggest the reader to judge for himself.


QUOTE
They will not solve our current dilemma, which is with the RULERS of this world.



Again, to my previous post:


QUOTE
The blame for most of the atrocities on the original post should be placed mostly on christian leaders though, as they are the ones who manipulated the inherent christian bigotry into outright slaughter on a massive scale.

There is no doubt in my mind that if given a chance, modern christian leaders like Jack Chick, Pat Robertson, and Jerry Falwell would gleefully go back to spreading the gospel at the point of a sword.



I also said it is my experience that the 'good christians' are a minority.

Who's flaming who here?



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Posted: Oct 17 2004, 03:28 PM
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Wahya, I wasn't going to return to this thread, much less respond to it! There went all my intentions! Thank you for your gracious response to my vent!

QUOTE
...So the question arises: what is the achievement of these Christians' lives, what is the human race indebted to them for?


Then came the list. Ugh. If you had just thrown in the Medici bunch, I would have been on your side completely after watching a PBS broadcast on those wicked popes! Most Christians are ignorant about how all of this power transpired to change the course of the world. Very ugly, indeed. That part I wouldn't deny.

I guess I'd feel better if Christians, if singled out as an example, would have their brightest contributors applauded, which are not a few. There have been brilliant men lending their talents in the areas of science, art and architecture, music, medicine, astromony, and other vocations in spite of the oppression of the PTB in their times.

And I guess I just didn't want to read about the crimes of the past. Not today anyway, especially after the Medicis. It was shocking! I couldn't help but think there was a bloodline that continued on, maybe even down 'til today. How such men attain that kind of power is no secret. It came at the point of a sword. But how they retained that power, and were even revered by a forgiving populace, is beyond my scope of comprehension; worse, believing him to be the infallible ruler over them. Martin Luther gave this idea a new face.

As for good Christians being a minority, there are those who call themselves Christians but don't walk their talk. They don't keep their word. I have met them, too. The idea here is to trust no man no matter who he tells you he is.

I apologize for misunderstanding your post. It's neat that I can do that. I will try very hard not to be so thin-skinned in the future.

BJ

BJ



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Posted: Oct 17 2004, 04:24 PM
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I do not admit... that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia... by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race... has come in and taken its place.
~ Churchill to Palestine Royal Commission, 1937


He was one of THEM also.

His actions during his lifetime have exposed him.





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QUOTE
"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
~ Matthew 7:16

"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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Can you dig it?
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Posted: Oct 17 2004, 09:06 PM
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If you had just thrown in the Medici bunch, I would have been on your side completely after watching a PBS broadcast on those wicked popes!


I have an entire disc of information on the diabolical Medici family. It's in my 'misplaced file', meaning the darn thing is around here somewhere...

QUOTE
Most Christians are ignorant about how all of this power transpired to change the course of the world. Very ugly, indeed. That part I wouldn't deny.


And most christians are oblivious to the scheming of their modern day leaders too.

When I hear the president mention that the War on 'Terror' is a Crusade, I cringe. Like the original medieval crusades, it is driven by greed and ignorance, and fabricated from lies and ethnocentrism.

Others (Pat Robertson & Ralph Reed in particular) have made cryptic statement that their goal is to influence the govt by lobbying to create a christian nation (in other words, their view of what a christian nation should be) That should give any sane person the heebie jeebies.

QUOTE
I guess I'd feel better if Christians, if singled out as an example, would have their brightest contributors applauded, which are not a few. There have been brilliant men lending their talents in the areas of science, art and architecture, music, medicine, astromony, and other vocations in spite of the oppression of the PTB in their times.


TPTB in those times, in many cases were the christian leaders of the time too.

The Witch Hunts, the Inquisition, and the Crusades should serve as a warning from the past that we must preserve a secular form of government and never again allow a state religion such power.

Granted, secular govts can be just as murderous and brutal. The Stalinist Era of the USSR comes to mind. But when religion is added to the mix, it becomes so much worse.

I have an older post, I believe here in the War/politics/religion area, called There is no more dangerous idea than america the divine that might add more depth to this.

QUOTE
And I guess I just didn't want to read about the crimes of the past. Not today anyway, especially after the Medicis. ... But how they retained that power, and were even revered by a forgiving populace, is beyond my scope of comprehension; worse, believing him to be the infallible ruler over them. Martin Luther gave this idea a new face.


And THAT is what I mean about how adding religion to govt makes it worse.

What I mean by that is often governments often allow certain degrees of disagreement. You can disagree with Bush, but most likely you wont be getting in trouble (yet).

Now if this country had become a christian republic, disagreement with govt policy also becomes disagreement with god himself, and you better walk the straight and narrow. NO dissent would be tolerated, and would be perceived as satanic.

Iran and Saudi Arabia should serve as good warnings against religious governments.


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As for good Christians being a minority, there are those who call themselves Christians but don't walk their talk. They don't keep their word. I have met them, too.


Here's where it gets tricky.

Are you one of the good compassionate non-bigoted christians? Hey, great!

But the 'other guys' will be the first to also make the same statement about you.

I'm sure youve heard it before:

"Youre not a REAL christian - youre one of them left wing liberal pinko pretend christians"

QUOTE
The idea here is to trust no man no matter who he tells you he is.


Right on. That is a lesson I learned in the public school gulag: avoid humans = avoid problems.

I dont think you need to apologize for anything. I can understand how this would be perceived as a flame thread.

It is not my intention to cause problems for anyone in this site. This is not GLP. We can discuss our disagreements and problems like adults in here.


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Posted: Oct 18 2004, 04:37 PM
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hey all, one observation here: the great majority (if not all) of these listed, and those "christians" accused of atrocities, are catholics or members of the catholic church... if not the leaders of it... shock.gif




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"Those who know nothing about history are doomed forever to repeat it."
~ Will Durant

"All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed,
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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Posted: Oct 18 2004, 05:26 PM
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Wahya
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That is a lesson I learned in the public school gulag:

avoid humans = avoid problems.

I always wondered how they could be so cruel. But their cruelty can infect us too as we try to fit in and be accepted. I did some things in jr high that I am ashamed of.

Putting a firecracker in the back of Scott Tuggles pants pocket and lighting it and throwing a brick through the front tire of Steve Oguris bicycle. I was becoming just like THEM, trying to fit in and be accepted. But I realized what I was doing. When I became an adult, I was able to apologize to Steve for what I did. He actually was so cool and said, no problem, forget about it. I felt better just telling him I was sorry.

I never got to apologize to Scott though.

Hey WingsOfTruth, I think you're right, the Catholic Church is pretty much the main culprit behind many inhuman actions for centuries.

10,000 child abuse cases in USA alone against the catholic clergy. And the pope, fricken demon spawn, will not even fire these pedophiles.

I'm sorry, but the pope may talk about peace, and love, but his actions give himself away.

"ye shall know them by their fruits"







--------------------
QUOTE
"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
~ Matthew 7:16

"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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Posted: Oct 18 2004, 06:07 PM
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I'm sorry, but the pope may talk about peace, and love, but his actions give himself away.


PuPP, the pope before him, Pope John I, was going to make SWEEPING REFORMS in the Church by rearranging the hierarchy. snake.gif snake.gif He wasn't a living Pope for very long...3 months, I think. Someone gave him a nitey-nite drink that put him to sleep for good. In short, he was murdered. sadoriginal.gif

Maybe this Pope believes in the old saying that discretion is the better part of valor. The Pope is nothing more than a figurehead, just like the President of these United States. If they make a false move, they're dead. They do as they are told.

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Posted: Oct 18 2004, 08:23 PM
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The Pope is nothing more than a figurehead, just like the President of these United States. If they make a false move, they're dead.


BJ, you may be right, I don't know for sure.

But we ALL know what THEY did to one of THEIR own with JFK when he tried to rock the boat.

And then John Hinckley shoots Reagan.

Hinckley's family had close ties with the Bush's.

Even under threat of death, I'd still do the right thing and THEY know it.







--------------------
QUOTE
"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
~ Matthew 7:16

"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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Posted: Oct 18 2004, 09:17 PM
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But we ALL know what THEY did to one of THEIR own with JFK when he tried to rock the boat.


PuPP, several hundred years ago, the Catholic Church was infiltrated by Jews who "converted" and became priests, bishops, etc. They bragged that when they confessed their sins, it was only to another Jew.

It was the conservative Catholic belief at the time of Pope Pius VI, formerly Cardinal Montini, that he was a Morano Jew. He did more to devastate the Church, in the name of "ecumenism" than any other Pope in modern history. Many nuns and priests, who couldn't accept the changes, left the Church at that time.

JFK was definitely not one of their own when you realize that the hierarchy was crawling with Jews, who only claimed to be Catholic, but were not. I think it safe to say that the Jesuits played a part, too, if only to give sanction to the deed.

Pope John Paul II, fears for the Church because he believes the next pope will be the antichrist pope. If his worst fears come to pass, the next pope will probably be of the Merovingian bloodline. This is the plan of the Priory of Zion at Rennes le Chateau in France, who keeps a record of the bloodline.

BJ



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