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> A must read for Evangelicals, evangelicals and the Iraq War

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Posted: Oct 4 2004, 09:11 AM
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'Divided by a Common Faith'
Evangelicals in the United States are increasingly estranged from their counterparts everywhere else.
by Tom Sine

The article is lengthy but good. Here are three paragraphs from that article. I've provided a link at the bottom for those of you who would like to read the whole thing.


Americans have long been "divided by a common language" from our friends in the Commonwealth. What is new is that evangelicals in the United States are increasingly divided by a common faith from evangelicals almost everywhere else. This growing global divide isn’t primarily theological—it is political. Why do U.S. evangelicals tend to hold such a different view regarding a broad range of political issues—including the war in Iraq—than their evangelical counterparts in the Commonwealth?

Part of what has changed the character of American evangelicalism is that leaders of the Religious Right—such as Jerry Falwell, Tim LaHaye, Pat Robertson, and James Dobson—took over leadership from more moderate evangelicals in the 1980s. When they did so, they fundamentally redefined the key issues in the United States and what the response of the evangelical faithful should be to these issues.

American evangelicals tend to subscribe to a revisionist understanding of the U.S. founding story that encourages them to view the United States as God’s unique redemptive agent in the world. Not surprisingly, this view of messianic nationalism makes it very easy for many American evangelicals to support the neoconservative doctrine endorsing the pre-emptive and redemptive use of violence to make the world a better place. Very few evangelicals around the world support either this view of American exceptionalism or this imperial use of pre-emptive violence to "improve" life on this planet.

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Posted: Oct 4 2004, 10:01 AM
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"Very few evangelicals around the world support either this view of American exceptionalism or this imperial use of pre-emptive violence to "improve" life on this planet."

Freemasons in the US have more heavily infiltrated the ranks of the top of the most famous evangelists. This is why the Word of God has been twisted to keep them in power. The preaching of the tithe has emptied many a pocket of the poor, while it is mentioned in the NT only once, in Hebrews 7, where it says the tithe has been put on hold because Jesus is our high priest.

The religious organizations are CORPORATIONS and nothing more. The "leaders" are in bed with the politicos. Plain and simple. And they defend Israel! Hoo boy. So, of course, they will defend this war on Iraq. IMO



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Posted: Oct 4 2004, 10:24 AM
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I agree BJ.

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Posted: Oct 4 2004, 05:12 PM
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Sorry for such a long C&P but this is from an email...lots of juicy discourse on this essay through a gnostic researcher site too, will ask JK if OK to post some of his further workings of this essay of his.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(Possible alternative title: “The God of George W. Bush is really the devil”)

Proof that Jehovah is really Satan

Many Catholics, Jews, and Christians —George W. Bush, for one —
actually worship the devil

By John Kaminski

How can a man who claims he gets his orders from God preside over the senseless slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent civilians after lying to the nation he leads about the reasons he ordered the mass murder to begin with?

Is that man simply insane? Or is the God he pretends to talk to insane? (The larger question — how is that millions of otherwise ordinary people can pretend he’s normal? — will be addressed a little later.)

A quick glimpse into the commentaries of Gnostic Christianity provides some perspective on the matter.

On the one hand we read that “It is impossible for God to lie”, and on the other hand we read of the god Jehovah deceiving and lying. On the one hand we read that “God is love” and “love is not jealous”, and on the other hand we read that Jehovah is a jealous god. On the one hand, we read the Sermon on the Mount and its call to pacifism, gentleness, altruism, and that we should “be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect”, and on the other hand we read of the savage, vile, bloodthirsty, and murderous acts of the god Jehovah. On the one had we are told “God is Love” and we have Love clearly defined for us in 1 Corinthians 13:4-8, and on the other hand we see the god Jehovah behaving in a truly Satanic fashion of undiluted evil. Are we really reading of only one God here? Or is it obvious to you by now we are reading of two deities, one a pretender and one the Supreme Being?
— Stephen A. Hoeller

My good friend, the noted spiritualist and health and nutrition expert Mary Sparrowdancer <>, and I share a perspective on religious teachings that has profoundly bothered us both for many years — namely, that the bountiful and sublime spirit most of us generally regard as the supreme being who created the universe is depicted as a beastly psychopath by many written descriptions in the Old Testament of the Bible.

How can the venal, small-minded killer featured in such cruel rants as Leviticus and Deuteronomy turn into the compassionate and loving holy father who inspired millions to follow the gentle teachings of Jesus to live kind and compassionate lives?

"I have been working to reveal this information for sixteen years," Mary wrote, "but the writer whose link is below seems to have summed everything up quite nicely, so I am passing it along to you. It is accurate, including his Hebrew, and I have written small articles in the past making similar points being made here. This is important. It answers a lot of questions. This is the god of George W. Bush ... revealed."

Now, if you have two or three hours to intensely contemplate this revealing exegesis of the difference between the Old and New Testament Gods, I strongly recommend you undertake it. But if you like me are trapped in the frantic pace of contemporary reality, please permit me this brief analysis of some of the important ideas contained in this enlightening mini-book.

The extended essay in question is “Jehovah Unmasked” by Nathaniel J. Merritt, a religious refugee who after a long and disturbing quest found his spiritual home in Gnostic Christianity.

Merritt recounts his harrowing journey through a bizarre sequence of disturbing religious experiences: from “the spiritual darkness” of being a Jehovah’s Witnesses (“Never has there been a more disturbed, Orwellian, mentally and spiritually oppressed group of people on this planet.”), and his escape into the Jesus Movement of the late 1960s (“Though the Witnesses are incredibly negative, at least they do not teach that unbelievers will be roasted for eternity in a hell of fire. However, Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, and Pentecostal Christians do teach such a hideous, evil doctrine.”)

Then he escaped into Buddhism’s “calm, clear rationality” before discovering the emptiness of its philosophy stressing people have “no self, no spirit, no soul, but are merely biological machines.” Ultimately he discovered his spiritual satisfaction comfort in Gnostic Christianity, but on the way discovered “that the universe is fundamentally flawed, and that a malevolent intelligence or intelligences lurk behind the flawed nature of the cosmos.”

Point by point Merritt examines the fundamental questions that all religiously oriented minds eventually ask, beginning with this conundrum: “If God is all-powerful, then God is not all good. If God is all good, then God is not all-powerful.”

Quickly he jumps into the suspicious nature of the creation of the New Testament, constructed by a politicized vote process at various conclaves over time. “Bible-believing fundamentalists ... are willfully ignorant of the historically verifiable process by which the canon was selected.”

According to Merritt and other Gnostic writers, the discovery in 1945 of the Nag Hammadi gospels in Egypt provided an invaluable litmus for determining which of the Scriptures were politically inspired by smallminded powerseekers and which genuinely pertain to altruistic teachings about a divine being.

Merritt’s explanation is the typical Gnostic perspective.

“The solution to the problem of evil which the Scriptures of the Gnostic (Knowing) Christians explain, and which the Catholic church violently rejected, is simply this: The spiritual realms were made by our Heavenly Father, the all-good and loving Father of whom Jesus spoke. This material universe is the creation of a lesser god, a very distant descendant of the Absolute God. This lesser god was unable or unwilling to create a universe free of suffering and death. The True God, however, has been active through the Holy Spirit and various divinities such as Wisdom (Sophia), Life (Zoe) and Grace (Charis), to bring us a direct Knowing of the Divine. This activity culminated in Jesus Christ.”

The original question of this essay has two parts: first, why can so many people worship an entity whose track record of emotional behavior throughout the Old Testament is, when not downright criminal, a complete embarrassment to all those who call themselves religious? And second, how does this faulty behavioral conditioning pertain to the contemporary troubles of the world?

I mean, take a close look at these psychotic pronouncements, as Merritt describes them:

Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. THEIR CHILDREN ALSO SHALL BE DASHED TO PIECES BEFORE THEIR EYES; their houses shall be spoiled, AND THEIR WIVES RAPED." Isaiah 13:15-16. (Here Jehovah/Satan not only commands the murder of children, but also commands the rape of women! Is this the behavior of a God of Love? Or is this clearly the behavior of Satan?)

In the chapter titled “The Fable of Jewish Monotheism,” Merritt offers a valuable tip for those who attempt to read the Bible.

“... whenever you see LORD or GOD in all capitals in the Old Testament, the original Hebrew is Jehovah/Yahweh, and it occurs well over six thousand times. The name Jehovah is normally covered up by LORD and GOD because of a Jewish superstition that regards the name as too sacred to pronounce. This superstition was carried over into Christianity. However, Jehovah was simply considered the Chief God among many gods by the ancient Hebrews, not the only god ....”

But beyond questions about identification are questions of intent, and the deity who emerges from the pages of the Old Testament is simply nothing to write home about. Again, Merritt is devastatingly descriptive:

As you can see, the god that emerges from the pages of the Old Testament is a terrifying insane thug, far worse than Adolph Hitler. It is a truly satanic god. Torturing and killing multitudes in fits of rage, ordering the slaughter of millions (even babies and infants) over and over again. Losing its temper constantly, always angry and destroying and frightful. Jehovah is an egomaniacal murderous despot. That is why Jehovah uses the title "LORD of hosts". The church language of English translations often covers up the actual meaning of the underlying Hebrew words. Such is the case with the term "LORD of hosts" which is actually "Jehovah of armies!" The Old Testament even says "Jehovah is a Man of War, Jehovah is his name." (Exodus 15:3, American Standard Version of 1901) Contrast "Jehovah is a Man of War" with the words of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount: "Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God." (Matthew 5:9) I gave an early draft of this booklet to a fundamentalist friend, and after he read this section detailing the evil vicious insane murderous acts of Jehovah god, he began to spout nonsense about Jehovah’s satanic behavior being a demonstration of “holiness”. Needless to say, anyone who equates such vile evil with “holiness” is a few bricks shy of a load. Completely hopelessly brainwashed. Holy beings do not throw temper tantrums and destroy things and murder people.

“The most telling verse of all as to the real identity of the god Jehovah is Isaiah 45:7,” Merritt writes.

"I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create evil. I the LORD (Jehovah) do all these things." (Modern translations of the Bible change "evil" to "calamity" or some other word in an attempt to cover this revealing verse up. The Hebrew word is "ra" and means evil)

Who but Satan could be the creator of evil and darkness? Well? Tell me! As Acts 26:18 says "To OPEN THEIR EYES, and to turn them from DARKNESS to LIGHT, and from the power of SATAN unto GOD."

How much more obvious can it be? “Jehovah” is SATAN!

Another powerful contrast is found in one of the best known, best loved sections of the New Testament: the "Love Chapter", chapter 13 of 1 Corinthians.

Starting with verse 4 and ending with verse 8 we read: "Love suffers long and is kind. Love is not jealous. Love does not parade itself. Love is not puffed up. Love does not behave rudely. Love does not seek it's own glory. Love is not provoked. Love thinks no evil. Love does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth. Love bears all things. Love hopes all things. Love endures all things. Love never fails."

Since the Apostle John tells us that "He that loveth not knoweth not God, for GOD IS LOVE" (1 John 4:8), let's read the above verses again: "God suffers long and is kind. God is not jealous. God does not parade Himself. God is not puffed up. God does not behave rudely. God does not seek his own glory. God is not provoked. God thinks no evil. God does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth. God bears all things. God hopes all things. God endures all things. God never fails."

Yet, the god Jehovah says "I, JEHOVAH THY GOD, am a JEALOUS GOD, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me...JEHOVAH, whose name is JEALOUS, is a JEALOUS GOD!" (Exodus 20:5, 34:14, American Standard Version of 1901, emphasis mine) Some modern translations, in an attempt to rehabilitate Jehovah, change the highly accurate translation “jealous” to some less repugnant term
or phrase.

Unlike the God of Love, Jehovah does not suffer anything for long, and is rarely if ever kind. Jehovah is puffed up, and constantly parades himself and seeks his own glory. Jehovah behaves very rudely indeed! Demanding that humans debase themselves before him and quake in fear before him. (Deuteronomy 6:24) Jehovah is easily provoked, and not only thinks evil, but is the very creator of evil. (Isaiah 45:7) Jehovah orders helpless innocent babies be slaughtered, and their blood spilled before him for his bloodthirsty rage to be placated. That is iniquity and Jehovah rejoices in it. Jehovah endures or bears very little, instead demanding that the Israelites obey him blindly and explicitly or suffer a hideous death at his hands. Jehovah fails miserably to live up to the True God of Love described in I Corinthians chapter 13:4-8.

Jehovah is very easily provoked to fits of rage and destruction as chapter nine of this book has shown you. Jehovah orders the slaughter of millions, and even murders vast multitudes of people directly. I ask again, how much more obvious can it be as to Jehovah/Yahweh's real identity? Jehovah is manifestly and clearly none other than SATAN! It is Satan that calls himself Jehovah, and who created this miserable material world of pain, suffering, violence, disease, malfunction, old age, and death. He has trapped us here.

Merritt is adamant that long ago, Christian believers were duped.

Clearly, something terrible happened early on to the Christian faith, to its teachings, to its scriptures, as the early Catholic church took root and enforced its grisly, monstrous god and horrible version of the gospel on the Christian people. As Thomas Jefferson said "The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power for themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ." At the point of a sword, in its pursuit of earthly power and riches, it used the methods of its god Jehovah/Satan to enforce its doctrines of devils upon the people of God. The light of the gospel was nearly extinguished by the darkness of Catholicism. The false god Jehovah took the place of the True God as the Great Apostasy began. The Reformation was a good start, but the reforming process must continue as we strive to recover the original Christian message, and the True God revealed by Jesus.

In my superficial and random meanderings through readings in ancient history, I have come to the personal conclusion that Jesus is a fictional, composite character created by politicians of ancient times to create typical religious mind-control propaganda aimed at calming and regimenting the unruly masses. However, let me differentiate between two concepts.

While I believe that all the sayings of Jesus were culled from statements and events of other personages both historical and legendary, this is not to say I do not believe in the power of the idea of Jesus, nor can I deny the beneficial effect it has had in millions of people over the many centuries both before and since its creation. The ideas of loving one’s neighbor as oneself and being as kind to the poor as you are to the rich are universal concepts of compassion enjoyed and practiced by all peoples at all times, and the concept of loving hope invested in the prodigal son who will redeem mankind by his noble acts have inspired followers from time immemorial, whether the object of that hopeful affection has been named Tammuz or Osiris or Marduk or Mithra.

But what about all those people who go to church on Sunday and believe what they are told without digging any deeper? Certainly they are stupid and gullible. But are they insane? What are we to make of America’s evangelical Christians, who support President Bush’s campaign of mass murder throughout the world based on the twisted logic their preachers tell them that comes straight from the sociopathic drivel uttered by the mad god Jehovah in the pages of the Old Testament?

In Merritt’s view (and mine, as well), these demented people are worshipping the devil, and that’s a principal reason why for the last 1700 years we have had righteous warriors butchering the less fortunate and claiming they’re doing it in the name of God.

Here’s an extra-credit question. Where does this leave Torah-true Jews?

Let me explain a bit. Devotees of Judaism follow the teachings of two holy books, the Torah and the Talmud. The Torah is the same as the Pentateuch, which are the first five books of the Old Testament: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

Compared to the Old Testament (or Torah) which we have just been discussing, the Talmud is much worse. It depicts Jesus as forever hanging upside down in a cauldron of excrement, and generally provides repeated excuses for Jews to regard all non-Jews as subhuman, stressing that there is never a penalty when Jew kills or robs a non-Jew because non-Jews are merely cattle.

So, when I hear Jewish excuses for Israel’s genocide against Palestinians or their lying about everything to everyone else (remind me to tell you someday about the Kol Nidre oath), and then I hear that some “Torah-true” Jews oppose Israel’s murderous policies of deceit and destruction, I’m not exactly overwhelmed with a warm and fuzzy feeling of security, because the “Torah-true” or “good” Jews base their philosophies upon this Old Testament material which Merritt has just finished describing as the teachings of Jehovah who is really Satan. Just thought I’d mention this. Much more on this in future essays.

In the enclosed link listed above, Nathaniel Merritt has constructed a very clear and compelling description of the true intent of the Old Testament, which is to rule people by fear and threats, and urge the killing, robbing, and raping of all those who oppose what he says. This is not the consensus conception of God in the minds of any compassionate and conscious human being.

Most importantly to us contemporary humans, what kind of light does this put on our current debate, with a murderous president establishing all these “faith-based initiatives,” with millions of evangelical so-called Christians clamoring for the death and destruction of dark-skinned Muslims, and allying themselves with Jews, who in their holy books claim Jesus resides forever hung upside down in a dung-filled pit?

Isn’t it obvious that this God so many use to justify their evil deeds is exactly the opposite, and is instead the hateful beast Jesus supposedly preached against.

One need only look out into the world and see the dead innocents bleeding in the radioactive dust of Iraq to know that the God used to justify these wanton acts of pure evil is certainly not the supreme being we all turn to in times of stress, and who showers his love on all life in the universe.

Jehovah, the Old Testament maniac upon whom so many Catholics, Christians and Jews base their whole lives, is clearly Satan. This is why our beautiful world has remained so ugly all these many centuries, and why we are in such profound danger now at this very moment.

If you try to deny this assertion, may God — the real one, not the ancient sociopath — forgive you.

John Kaminski, whose essays are seen on hundreds of websites around the world, is the author of “America’s Autopsy Report,” “The Day America Died,” and his newest collection,“The Perfect Enemy,” all of which are available at

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Can you dig it?
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Posted: Oct 5 2004, 04:37 AM
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bouncefire.gif Heathens right again! bouncefire.gif

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Posted: Oct 14 2004, 08:50 PM
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This was in our family's email vs my personal mail, the sender considers herself a 'christian' she is one of the three 'christian' moms I know that listen to Dobson who advocates the old child soul smasher philosophy of 'spare the rod and spoil the child'-all three of these early 30's aged moms strike their under 5 year old kids with spatulas-all three use kitchen spatulas which must be taught to them. Anyway these three young moms who go to church and bible study are not christian in their actions-they are the new christians-total materialists, total liars and denyers if to no more than their selves and so of course they WOULD ALIGN THEMSELVES WITH THE LIKES OF this is the message they send out in their godly way whenever they aren't whacking their little ones (who for whatever reason are unusually out of control, lyin denyin kids-PuPP's know them by their fruit quote) and amassing funds the old fashioned ways. All three are also racist and googley eyed talking about the 'Lord'. This email has bothered me all day-I immediately responded to it in my fashion-To support or defend those that manufacture WARS based only on pre-meditated LIES solely for personal gain and profit for their corporate masters is so UN-CHRISTIAN and so UN-AMERICAN to me.

I am sorry to see that you will not realise the ones you are supporting and endorsing are members of extreme anti-life cults. Since Bush and Kerry are BOTH MEMBERS OF SKULL AND BONES with much documented evidence dealing with their actual worship of a Satanic lord I have absolutely NO interest in either one of them except for the day when Bush and cabal are indicted for impeachment.

It is alarming to me that one of your draftable age supports a devious warmonger who used his dad to avoid service during the Vietnam war when all the working class boys were drafted and their lives ruined by being forced to fight in a foreign war based on lies for profits by the same ones as the false invasion of Iraq is being fought for today. There WILL be a draft soon, are you aware of that?

Please do a little research, call me if you need any documentational assistance-you MUST be truly disinformed if you believe one word of the email you sent me.

So this is making the rounds via the churchies- I have received several insanely ignorant and unamerican emails from long ago friends, usually not more than once due to my convictions for the truth and hatred of the anti-life Illuminati agendas.


Subject: Bush vs. Kerry

* Restoring voluntary prayer in the public schools:
President Bush Favors.
John Kerry is Opposed.

* Mel Gibson & the making of a film about Christ:
President Bush supports Gibson.
John Kerry participated in Left's assault on Gibson, suggesting possible
anti-Semitism even though Kerry had not seen the film.

* Boy Scouts' belief in God and not allowing Homosexual Scout Leaders:
President Bush supports Boy Scouts' stand.
John Kerry opposes boy Scouts' stand.

* Asking for God's blessing on America:
President Bush often asks God to bless America in his speeches.
John Kerry attacks Bush for mentioning God so often.

* Judges:
President Bush says "We need common-sense judges who believe our rights are
derived from God."
John Kerry insists on judges who support the ACLU's radical anti-Christian,
anti-God, anti-family agenda.

John Kerry is insistent on blocking President Bush's federal judge appointments.

* Overall Record:
President Bush does not vote on issues before Congress but, based on his publicly stated positions, would be rated as mainstream.

John Kerry, according to the highly respected,politically-neutral National Journal,
rates Kerry the most liberal U. S. Senator in 2003 -- more liberal than Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton.

With help from you and many others, we hope to distribute 25,000,000 copies of this Voter information across the United States.
If you agree, please pass this on.

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Master Of His Domain
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Posted: Oct 14 2004, 11:50 PM
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Hey Fran, thanks for starting this thread.

PurelyPagan, I had missed that John Kaminski article.

It's really good. Thank you for sharing.

I have always felt that the bible is speaking about more than one deity/LORD/God.

Jehovah or Yahweh sure doesn't seem like a loving entity to me.

On the one hand we read that “It is impossible for God to lie”, and on the other hand we read of the god Jehovah deceiving and lying. On the one hand we read that “God is love” and “love is not jealous”, and on the other hand we read that Jehovah is a jealous god. On the one hand, we read the Sermon on the Mount and its call to pacifism, gentleness, altruism, and that we should “be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect”, and on the other hand we read of the savage, vile, bloodthirsty, and murderous acts of the god Jehovah.[...]

Are we really reading of only one God here? Or is it obvious to you by now we are reading of two deities, one a pretender and one the Supreme Being? — Stephen A. Hoeller

This is scary... ya know, I cannot lie - it will eat me up inside. Ask me anything and it's as if I took some truth drug and I must tell it like it is.

I'll tell ya - It sure has made for an interesting life!

“... whenever you see LORD or GOD in all capitals in the Old Testament, the original Hebrew is Jehovah/Yahweh, and it occurs well over six thousand times. The name Jehovah is normally covered up by LORD and GOD because of a Jewish superstition that regards the name as too sacred to pronounce. This superstition was carried over into Christianity. However, Jehovah was simply considered the Chief God among many gods by the ancient Hebrews, not the only god ....”

Here's some scripture that TO ME, shows me a God who is not the good guy.

"Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Mori'ah, and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one of the mountains of which I shall tell you."
~ Genesis 22:2

"And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters"
~ Jeremiah 19:9

Leviticus also has many verses that just make my jaw drop. I've tried to share what I believe to be the truth in the bible, but many refuse to see and will defend their beliefs against anyone who tries to tell them different.

I don't expect anyone here to believe, just read it and think. smile.gif

The law of burnt offerings

"Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering to the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock."
~ Leviticus 1:2

"If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish:"
~ Leviticus 1:3

"And the priest shall burn them upon the alter: it is the food of the offering made by fire for a sweet savour: all the fat is the LORD's."
~ Leviticus 4:16

"And every 'oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with salt: neither shalt thou suffer the salt of the covenant of thy God to be lacking from thy meat offering: with all thine offerings thou shalt offer salt."
~ Leviticus 2:13

Here's where the "loving" god gets pissed for an incense offering and kills 2 men.

"And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not."
~ Leviticus 10:1

"And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD."
~ Leviticus 10:2

Here's some good words to end this post...

"Let brotherly love continue. Be not forgetful to entertain strangers; for thereby some have entertained angels unawares."
~ Hebrews 13: 1

"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
~ Matthew 7:16

"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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Posted: Oct 15 2004, 08:12 AM
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Hi All,

Outstanding post, PuPP.

Here's the facts Jack! The bottomline...............

1001 direct contradictions in the bible.

172 failed prophecies in the bible.

1000's of Atrocities in the bible. (PuPP mentioned a fraction of good examples)

The heavily programmed and indoctrinate zealots still defend the bible as "The Truth and The Way".

They will defend up to a point. Up to where "God given common sense" is applied to their programming. If they respond at all (after that) it will be thru blind, unfocused retaliation of rage ensued by an EGO that had it's existence, it built for itself, shattered in such a way that it can defend in no other fashion.

It is quite impossible to impart knowledge to them that contradicts their own. Their EGO must be controlled by them in order to see beyond what their EGO will allow.

Thankfully, religion and it's controlling principles do not stand under the bright of truth here, on a forum of Truth. Thanks for this forum. (If you feel like you are home in this forum of Truth, please send a few bucks monthly.)

Every second is a choice you make. Choose well.

Wherever you go, there you are. You can't escape.
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Tree Sprite
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Posted: Oct 15 2004, 02:37 PM
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You know I once started disecting the bible into the Book of "God" and the book of "The Lord God". I never had time to finish and see if my theory panned out.

If you notice in Genesis the first creation story is said to be done by "God". "He" had help, Adam and Eve were created at the same time and their only commandment was to go out and "multiply and Replenish the Earth".

Then comes the "Lord God" version. Women is out of man, the order of things is different and they are put in a "garden" and the "laws" start.

Anyway. It keeps going, "God" tells Noah to do this and take these many animals.

The "Lord God" says another things.

I know the Bible has been peiced together by many authors, rewritten, changed, altered, so it would be most probably impossible to accurately define the differences between "God" and the "Lord God". But my theory is this.

The Concept of "God" was a good loving god. He cared and was fair.

Then certain people, In my opinion, the Hebrews, came along and tried to superimpose their "war" god who loved killing, stupid obediance laws and degrading women. They wanted to make it look like their false God was the God of Love. One and the same. Yet this God didnt have any of the traits of the Love God. He enjoyed war and the smell of burnt flesh. ew!

So the "God" of love kinda disapeared, Along came Jesus, preaching Love one another. Everything was cool. Until that darn Paul came along implimenting those darn stupid rules again. Anyway.....


Wow, did I type that much? lol

Dont get me started on religion. lol

"The things I have seen, the many things, have long now faded far, only three come clear now back to me: a Cloud, a Tree, a Star."
~From The Death of St. Brendan

"I amar prestar aen, han mathon ne nen, han mathon ne chae a han noston ned 'wilith."
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