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|PuPP's Theories Forum > ANCIENT HISTORY > STRANGE SKULLS|
|Posted by: Mark Nov 14 2003, 11:13 PM|
| Comment: After looking at some of these skull images and busts, I think back and recall how big the headresses were that the Egyptian Pharoahs wore and the Top Hats of the Americans and Europeans of the 17th and 18th centuries.
Here's an image of a bust from Cairo, Egypt.
I believe this is the same bust as above but not completely positive.
More info and images below...
This site also has some good images.
PARTIAL SUMMARY IMAGE
Below is a collage of a few of the images found in these pages.
|Posted by: Mark Aug 12 2004, 01:17 AM|
| These are all of the weird "human?" skull images I have archived from various places on the internet.
Does this skull below resemble the busts from Cairo above?
Here's a side by side comparison with the skull image rotated.
It looks similar to me, but not exact.
Many of these images below originated at
(which is no longer online at the time of this post)
Most of these skulls were photographed by Robert Connolly on his trip around the world during which he was collecting materials about ancient civilizations. The discovery of unusual skulls was thus an unintended "spinoff" of his efforts. Robert Connolly published his photographs on a CD-ROM, titled "The Search For Ancient Wisdom", Cambrix, 1-800-992-8781, in 1995.
Compare the size and shape to that of a normal skull.
Some claim it's merely a result of head binding which was also practiced by the Paiute Native American Indians and by some African tribes.
I believe they were trying to emulate their half human "Gods" which had much larger skulls than a normal person.
I am amazed everytime I see these.
Starlyte once asked where my avatar came from.
I don't believe any amount of head binding will achieve a skull this size. But it's just my opinion. I'm no archaeologist with a degree in cover-ups.
Same image as above, but notice that the card has been removed that says "deformacion frontal"
But wait...it gets stranger...
This one below reminds me of that Dracula movie with Keanu Reeves.
Several human skulls with horns protruding from them were discovered in a burial mound at Sayre, Bradford County, Pennsylvania, in the 1880s.
The Vatican Museum possesses Michelangelo's famous statue of Moses.
The most striking feature of the statue, however, is the pair of horns protruding from the top of his head, just behind the hair line.
Hope you enjoyed the pics!
|Posted by: Survivalist Aug 12 2004, 07:08 PM|
| AN excellent pictorial of other races' bones, PuPP. I too, don't believe binding was involved.
If you consider the "ALIEN" creatures head, remove the arch from it's skull and shorten the teeth,.... Wallah! You have the "Cone Heads" as seen on old Saturday Night Live with Dan Ackroid and Jane Curtain, and HERE on this thread. I try to fathom just how many civilizations could there have been on this 4,000,000,000+ yrs old planet. I can't believe what is traditional.
|Posted by: Mark Aug 12 2004, 08:00 PM|
| Hey Surv, thanks for your input.
I remember those days of SNL as well as the Conehead movie.
What was the saying...
"We consume mass quantities"
That describes the current civilization we live in quite well.
What I'd really like to see is what the race looks like that mated with hominids to produce the part human hybrids with the large skulls that became the ancient rulers and were revered as Gods.
|Posted by: Seralia Aug 12 2004, 08:55 PM|
| Very interesting images of the skulls PuPP. The slope-head skulls, as I call them, have been found both in Peru and America. In 1888, seven skeletons were unearthed in Clearwater, Minnnisota that not only had skulls that were described as "low and sloping" but the skulls had double rows of teeth in their upper and lower jaws.
There have been several attemts to explain the anomalies as being caused by head binding which is absured since none of the skulls have any characteristics that would be consistant with head binding. To put it simply, when a skull is shaped by binding, a skull's upper bones are squeezed out of their natural shape which leaves them permanently separated and results in a "soft spot" at the top of the head.
I did some checking and found some more information on them.
There was also a skull that was found in Mexico in 1922 that looks very similar to the Peruvian skulls. Unfortunately I can't left click the image so you'll have to go to the site to view the image.
I found some more information here that is somewhat perplexing.
Skulls from Ica, Peru and Merida, Mexico
As for the horned skulls, the ones that were found in Pennsylvania were said to have disappeared, but the image of the one that you posted is supposedly in a French museum and unfortunately appears to be the only image of such a skull.
|Posted by: Mark Aug 12 2004, 09:51 PM|
| Hi Seralia,
I took a screenshot of the Amazon skulls from your link.
Some text from the link above...
"In 1833 the skeleton of a man 12 feet tall (3.6m) was unearthed by soldiers digging a pit for a powder magazine in Lompack Rancho, California. It had a
double row of teeth and was found with a bonanza of huge stone axes, carved shells and blocks with symbols carved on them. The remains were reburied and the location 'forgotten" when the locals saw this as proof of their "pagan" legends of giant gods.
In 1856 a skeleton of a 10' 9" human (3.28 metres) was found in West Virginia while ploughing a vineyard. Local law took the skeleton and said it was a hoax because 3 bullets had been found in the skull. What this had to do with anything or the rest of the huge skeleton is anyone's guess."
I took a couple more screenshots from the website and posted the text below.
"Found in Mexico in 1926, this skull is that of an adult who lived to an old age. Unlike usual birth or genetic "defect's, this skull is perfectly formed and proportioned - showing no abnormal thickening or anotomical deformaties caused by it's odd shape...it is a perfect skull of a being who lived and functioned with this type of anatomy."
In 1911 several mummified remains of red haired humans were found in Lovelock Cave about 70 miles NE of Reno, Nevada. They stood about 6.5 to 8 feet tall (2-2.5 metres) and were mentioned in the local legends of the Piute Indians of the area. Scientists were reluctant to look at the bones, most of which ended up being thrown away by miners. A few, including this skull which is almost a foot long,, is at the Nevada Historical Society in Reno.
Note: here in So Calif as a small child I noticed that almost ALL of the tall white kids were red haired and they are a foot or more taller than me.
The other tall kids were blacks.
I believe this race of giants has always been here, has interbred to become smaller and they are not all nice folks. Though I also believe there are many gentle giants as well.
Ye shall know them by their fruits
And of course, if they try and eat you!
If you havn't already read the http://pupp.mentalstimulation.com/secret.htm I highly suggest that you do!
"When they shall rise up against us we will crush them like insects, for they are less than that."
THE NEPHILIM ARE STILL HERE!
|Posted by: Mark Aug 12 2004, 10:34 PM|
4. Although the Romans 'would eventually devise methods of defeating these giant warriors, attacking long legs that couldn't be guarded by the massive shields these creatures carried, the blue-eyed, blond giants inspired terror among those facing them in battle for the first time.
The Nazi ideal "superman" was a blue-eyed, blond giant;
Did the Roman Empire form an alliance and interbreed with the giants?
From my studies, I find we live in a society influenced by ancient pagan cultures and occult symbolic days (holidays) disguised as religious or christian holidays.
We have the jews who weild immense influence in the news media, hollywood, central banks (the federal reserve) that controls USA monetary system which has bankrupt America and their powerful influence in govt.
We have the giant offspring who make enormous sums of money playing sports and others who work in government getting free health care and a pension for life while we have over 3 million people homeless in America.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Aug 13 2004, 08:00 PM|
I never heard of that one but it does make a lot of sense since China at one time was inhabited by tall red and blonde haired people.
Red Haired Mummies of China
It seems that these mummies were found in other places as well and there are plenty of pictures to prove it.
Red Haired Mummies of Canary Islands
And this is no surprise since Cleopatra was really a red head with blue eyes. King Ramses II was also a red head BTW.
Red Haired Mummies of Egypt
And of course they were in Peru.
Red Headed Mummies PERU
It seems that I hit the jackpot here.
Tribe of Dan ..Nordic Gods...ET.. Alien Gods
The History of the Red Haired Race
DNA EVIDENCE NOW SUPPORT THE THEORY OF A PREVOUSLY EXISTING RED/BLONDE HAIRED RACE!
|Posted by: DarmonVing Aug 13 2004, 08:15 PM|
| They also inhabited Easter Island.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Aug 13 2004, 08:29 PM|
| Now this is getting really interesting.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Aug 13 2004, 08:37 PM|
| Now this is what I was looking for. The giants came in the first age and then came the red haired people in the third age,
|Posted by: Mark Aug 13 2004, 08:59 PM|
| Hey DarmonVing, thanks for the additional info, some of those links I had never read before.
When I was on GLP, ATS and OSA forums I tried to tell everyone that the so-called aliens were among us and had blue eyes but since the majority of internet forum users had blue eyes, I was attacked and ridiculed.
I believe Mormons and Jews are hominid hybrid creations.
My theory derived from my experiences of 2002 which you can read in paranormal Section.
My belief is we have at least two root hybrid races... one with light blue eyes, and sensitive skin and the other with dark eyes, dark hair and dark skin due to being on the surface of the earth for the longer period.
When the blue eyes mixed in with the existing dark eyed race, the result was dark haired with blue eyes and I believe that's where green, brown and hazel eyes come from.... due to mixing.
This mostly shorter, smaller, darker skinned race is the slave labor race and has been exploited for a long time and continues to this day. They are used to mine for gold, silver, copper, coal, gemstones etc. and to labor in the fields.
Most likely the dark races were created specifically for labor since pale face who speaks with forked tongue could not tolerate the intense rays of the sun here on Earth.
One or more advanced race(s) seems to be here harvesting Earths resources and will one day leave Earth looking just like Mars and move on to the next earth like planet. (This I was told in communications of 2002)
Note: As I was writing this, Venus flashed into my head. I think this pale race comes from Venus.
I'm still trying to put all of the pieces together, but the evidence does suggest that the red and blond haired blue eyed race has been on earth for thousands of years and is quite advanced.
I also believe they can use more of their brain, telepathy and such and are extremely intelligent, speaking several languages (like Cleopatra).
I believe there was a great war on Earth about 12,000 years ago and caused these blue eyed races to regroup and breed more in order to conquer the world... again.
I also believe there's another species, an aquatic type of which I have some of their genes. I call them the "marshmallow people". They interbred with my grandmothers family. Out of the 8 children, they were all different.
You will also find this "marshmallow" population mixed in with those who claim to be jews, American blacks, Chinese, S Americans, Mexicans, New Zealanders and other areas.
The 600 pound woman who was recently fused to her couch is a prime example of this other species which has interbred with earths human/hybrid population.
Ariel Sharon is also one, so was Winston Churchill as well as Kim Jong il of North Korea.
China now has over 200 million overweight people.
They will eat every last living thing on this planet.
If not for cloned cattle, pigs and chickens, we'd already be eating dirt.
All of this advanced technology we see and use today is NOT new, it's just been recently introduced to us, gradually.
Let me make this clear, I believe there is also a good white race, as evidenced by those who share knowledge, wisdom, technology and information to educate us and enlighten us while opening our minds.
We are using their technology right now.
Ok, I rambled enough, hope I was coherent.
|Posted by: Mark Aug 13 2004, 09:05 PM|
| It took me so long to write this out that you posted more gems.
Excellant stuff DarmonVing.
It's starting to fall into place.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Aug 25 2004, 12:17 AM|
| I was talking to one of my friends yesterday about these red haired people and he hooked me up with some additional information on them that I had never heard before about a race called the Tuatha da Danann. I've heard about them before since I do have a slight interest in ancient cultures and knew that they had basically infested Ireland for a while many centuries but really didn't know how they had gotten there or what they looked like. He basically told me that they had literally landed in Ireland and that at least some of them had red hair. At first I thought that he was making it up, but I googled the Tuatha da Danann and found this account and some additional information about them.
There was also a mention of DNA evidence extracted from a hair sample taken from an alien during an abduction experience in another article that I read.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Aug 25 2004, 12:56 AM|
| This is getting more and more interesting. Here's some more information.
Here they are described as the SHINING ONES. Could the shining ones also be the Illuminati? - I think so.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Aug 25 2004, 01:12 AM|
| This is getting really good now. They were apparently the ones who also educated the Sumerians...
|Posted by: BJ1 (Unlogged) Aug 25 2004, 06:45 AM|
| This is a very interesting thread! There was a little research done on the Azazel thread at GLP, which touched on the migration of the tribe of Dan. We tracked them to the Phoenicians, then to the Celts. And much in between. How nice to see more of this right here! It's just too bad that I am missing those pages.
Thanks, both of you, PuPP and DarmonVing.
|Posted by: BJ1 Aug 25 2004, 07:32 AM|
| Oh, happiness! I'm NOT missing all of the pages. Just had the info filed under Merovingians\Tribe of Dan. This is what I found on the Tuatha de Danaan:
The Greek historian Herodotus reveals that some of the ancient Greeks actually came from Egypt, and that the ancestor of the Dorian princes in southern Greece was a certain "Danae, the daughter of Acrisus" (Herodotus, VI, 1, iii).
The Irish word "tuath" means literally "a tribe" or "people." These people were the tribe of DAN of Biblical fame! They came from the Greek "Danaans," and were the same people as the tribe of Dan.
In Ireland, today, we find their customary evidence -- their place names -- in abundance. Such names as Dans-Lough, Dan-Sower, Dan-Monism, Dun-dalke, Dun-drum, Don-egal Bay, Don-egal City, Dun-glow and Lon-don-derry, as well as Din-gle, Dun-garven and Duns-more, which means "MORE DANS." Of course, the most famous Irish ballad of all time is the song, "Danny Boy." It should be plain that the country of Ireland is replete, filled with names which derive from the ancient patriarch of the Hebrews -- DAN, the son of Jacob! It should be plain that the ancient Danites settled in Ireland, and most of them dwell in that land, today.
The Irish word "tuath" means literally "a tribe" or "people." These people were the tribe of DAN of Biblical fame! They came from the Greek "Danaans," and were the same people as the tribe of Dan.
From Greece, then, the tribe of Dan -- the Tuatha de Danaan -- travelled by ship through the Mediterranean Sea, and thence up the coast of Europe to Ireland and Scandinavia.
"In process of time, theTuatha-de-Danaan were themselves dispossessed of their sway; a successive invasion from the coast of SPAIN having put and end to the Danaanian dynasty, and transferred the sceptre into the hands of that Milesian or SCOTIC race, which through so long a series of succeeding ages, supplied Ireland with her kings.
The Tuatha de Danaan were beyond doubt of the tribe of Dan, of Israelitish fame. The new tribe, the Milesian Scots, were no doubt of the royal tribe of Judah -- through his son Zarah.
(There is also a connection between Samson of the OT and the tribe of Dan! That's quite a story in itself!)
|Posted by: Seralia Aug 25 2004, 03:04 PM|
This is turning out to be a really informative thread and I think that I can add a few pieces of information for you to kick around. First of all, it does seem that the Tribe of Dan and the Tuatha de Danaan could be one and the same but as far as them being the Illuminati, I'm really not sure about that one. It seems that according to some of the accounts that they were the opposite of what we now know as the Illuminati.
I noticed this one quote from the information that DV posted.
Let's work with that for a moment.
I know that this quote could be considered to be controversial but there's just something about it that makes sense considering the situation that we are in now.
The tribe of Dan seems to have been omitted for one or more reasons with one being that they themselves wanted to avoid being detected or someone wanted to erase any trace of their existense.
In this very familiar seal, the eagle has a death grip on the arrows which are 13 in number. Could this mean that the 13th tribe has become enslaved?
And why did some of them apparently flee to America and why were the "Americans" so intent on exterminating the native population? I found this at Cyberspace Orbit BTW.
MYSTERY OF THE MANDAN: THE WELCH NATIONS
The Definitive Journals of Lewis and Clark
The great River is called by the Natives the Mult-no-mack [Multnomah] River; it is 500 Yards wide at its mouth; & continues that width, as high up, as where we ascended it. The Indian guide that was with us, told us that it heads Near the head Waters of the California, ... Our guide also mentioned that he had seen one of the Indians of the Clark-a-mus Nation, & that this Indian was white, & that he mentioned they had fire Arms among them. From the above information received from our guide,
I am of opinion, that if any Welch nation of Indians are in existence, it must be those Indians, & not the flatt head Nation, as before mentioned; this I believe, from their Colour, numbers of Town, & fire arms among them, which I flatter myself will be confirmed, whenever the River Mult-no-mack is fully explored. April 02, 1806 Joseph Whitehouse, Lewis and Clark Expedition
...our officers told them taht we would Speak to them tomorrow and tell th[em] who we were and what our business is and where we are going &C. these natives are well dressed, descent looking Indians. light complectioned. they are dressed in mo Sheep leather Deer & buffalow robes &C. they have the most curious language of any we have Seen before. they talk as though they lisped or have a bur on their tongue. we Suppose that they are the welch Indians if their is any Such from the language. they have leather lodtes to leive in some other Skins among them. they tell us that they or Some of them have Seen bearded men towards the ocean, but they cannot give us any accurate [account] of the ocean but we have 4 mountains to cross to go where they saw white men which was on a river as we suppose the Columbian River. April 02, 1806 Joseph Whitehouse, Lewis and Clark Expedition
...amongst the women particularly, there are many whose skins are almost white, with the most pleasing symmetry and proportion of features; with hazel, with grey, and with blue eyes, -- with mildness and sweetness of expression, and excessive modesty of demeanour, which rentier them exceedingly pleasing and beautiful.
And finally, there are a few Native American prophesies concerning a thirteenth tribe emerging or being made up of members of twelve tribes. I did find one Cree prophecy that I would like to add here.
Warriors of the Rainbow
Native American Lore
There was an old lady, from the Cree tribe, named Eyes of Fire, who prophesied that one day, because of the white mans' or Yo-ne-gis' greed, there would come a time, when the fish would die in the streams, the birds would fall from the air, the waters would be blackened, and the trees would no longer be, mankind as we would know it, would all but cease to exist.
There would come a time when the "keepers of the legend, stories, culture rituals, and myths, and all the Ancient Tribal Customs" would be needed to restore us to health. They would be mankinds' key to survival, they were the "Warriors of the Rainbow".
There would come a day of awakening when all the peoples of all the tribes would form a New World of Justice, Peace, Freedom and recognition of the Great Spirit. The "Warriors of the Rainbow" would spread these messages and teach all peoples of the Earth or "Elohi". They would teach them how to live the "Way of the Great Spirit".
They would tell them of how the world today has turned away from the Great Spirit and that is why our Earth is "Sick". The "Warriors of the Rainbow" would show the peoples that this "Ancient Being" (the Great Spirit), is full of love and understanding, and teach them how to make the Earth or "Elohi" beautiful again.
These Warriors would give the people principles or rules to follow to make their path right with the world. These principles would be those of the Ancient Tribes. The Warriors of the Rainbow would teach the people of the ancient practices of Unity, Love and Understanding. They would teach of Harmony among people in all four corners of the Earth.
Like the Ancient Tribes, they would teach the people how to pray to the Great Spirit with love that flows like the beautiful mountain stream, and flows along the path to the ocean of life. Once again, they would be able to feel joy in solitude and in councils. They would be free of petty jealousies and love all mankind as their brothers, regardless of color, race or religion. They would feel happiness enter their hearts, and become as one with the entire human race. Their hearts would be pure and radiate warmth, understanding and respect for all mankind, Nature, and the Great Spirit.
They would once again fill their minds, hearts, souls, and deeds with the purest of thoughts. They would seek the beauty of the Master of Life -- the Great Spirit! They would find strength and beauty in prayer and the solitudes of life. Their children would once again be able to run free and enjoy the treasures of Nature and Mother Earth.
Free from the fears of toxins and destruction, wrought by the Yo-ne-gi and his practices of greed. The rivers would again run clear, the forests be abundant and beautiful, the animals and birds would be replenished. The powers of the plants and animals would again be respected and conservation of all that is beautiful would become a way of life.
The poor, sick and needy would be cared for by their brothers and sisters of the Earth. These practices would again become a part of their daily lives. The leaders of the people would be chosen in the old way -- not by their political party, or who could speak the loudest, boast the most, or by name calling or mud slinging, but by those whose actions spoke the loudest. Those who demonstrated their love, wisdom, and courage and those who showed that they could and did work for the good of all, would be chosen as the leaders or Chiefs.
They would be chosen by their "quality" and not the amount of money they had obtained. Like the thoughtful and devoted "Ancient Chiefs", they would understand the people with love, and see that their young were educated with the love and wisdom of their surroundings.
They would show them that miracles can be accomplished to heal this world of its ills, and restore it to health and beauty. The tasks of these "Warriors of the Rainbow" are many and great.
There will be terrifying mountains of ignorance to conquer and they shall find prejudice and hatred. They must be dedicated, unwavering in their strength, and strong of heart. They will find willing hearts and minds that will follow them on this road of returning "Mother Earth" to beauty and plenty -- once more.
The day will come, it is not far away. The day that we shall see how we owe our very existence to the people of all tribes that have maintained their culture and heritage. Those that have kept the rituals, stories, legends, and myths alive. It will be with this knowledge, the knowledge that they have preserved, that we shall once again return to "harmony" with Nature, Mother Earth, and mankind.
It will be with this knowledge that we shall find our "Key to our Survival".
|Posted by: BJ1 Aug 25 2004, 04:05 PM|
| Here is some more that we can add to the mix.
Several obscure prophecies in the Bible point to the fact that the tribe of Dan will produce the Antichrist. In the context of these prophecies, Samson´s riddle may be a prophecy that the descendants of the tribe of Dan will one day try to destroy the tribe of Judah in jealous revenge for God´s judgment on their idolatry. From the carcass of the young lion [Judaism] the tribe of Dan [typified by the bees] will attempt to produce a golden age [symbolized by honey]. To suggest that the Antichrist will be a Jew is likely to incur accusations of "anti-Semitism" from those who would like to conceal this fact. However, we believe that the Biblical admonition to bless the descendants of Abraham includes exposing the identity of the man of sin who will lead many Jews to their destruction.
The Merovingians, who plan to rule the world from their future throne at Jerusalem, claim to come from the tribe of Judah through Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene. However, the weight of evidence indicates that they descended from the tribe of Dan. Although Scripture states that Samson was “of the family of the Danites” [Judges 13:2], Yair Davidy of Brit-Am Israel claims that his lineage includes the Messianic tribe of Judah: “Samson the superman hero came from the Tribe of Dan but his mother was from Judah. ...
It is through the agency of the British-Israel movement that the Gentiles are being prepared to submit to the Noahide Laws under a restored Sanhedrin. Yair Davidy posits, “The name DAN means “judge” in Hebrew. Many lawyers and judges in the USA are of Irish descent of a particular type as is much of the police force . . . Descendants of Dan today appear to be concentrated in Ireland, Britain, the USA, and especially Denmark.” [Ibid.] Merovingians can also be found leading pseudo-Christian organizations as many profiles in the Council for National Policy and Discernment Ministries reveal. These British-Israel agents actively promote the Hebrew Roots / Messianic Movement as the catalyst for Judaizing Christians.
The following paper is meant to serve as a study guide for understanding the enigmatic design of Satan to use the apostate tribe of Dan as an instrument and cover for a false messiah. The reader will be able to review the many Scriptures which concern the tribe of Dan -- the prophecies, the Danite people, their land, history, idolatry and symbols -- in conjunction with relevant information from other sources. A chapter of Guardians of the Grail by J.R. Church provides further insights on The Roots of the Merovingians.
NOTE: A paper follows the above, "The Lost Tibe of Dan", with its history. Worth reading through.
The following agrees with Seralia's findings of the symbol of Dan:
The tribal emblem of the Danites was a snake (sic) with a serpent in its claws. Interestingly, Josephus records a letter written by the Lacedemonian Greeks to the Jews in which they express their kinship to the Jews. Their seal, that of the tribe of Dan, was affixed to the epistle -- an eagle with a dragon (serpent) in its claws!
|Posted by: BJ1 Aug 25 2004, 04:13 PM|
| Here is something very interesting concerning Samson:
The King of the PHILISTINES
And behold, the seed of SAMSON reigned over the PHILISTINES. And SAMSON was of the seed of DAN, [one] of the twelve sons of JACOB, and he was the son of handmaid of JACOB;... But he transgressed the commandment of God, and came and married a daughter of the uncircumcised PHILISTINES. And because of this God was wroth, and He delivered him into the hands of men of the uncircumcised PHILISTINES, and they blinded his eyes, and they made him act the buffoon in the house of their king. And he pulled the roof down upon them, and slew seven hundred thousand of them, and during his life he slew seven hundred thousand of them with iron, and stone, and [his] staff, and the jaw-bone of an ass. For their number was as that of the locusts, until he released ISRAEL from the service of the PHILISTINES.
...And then DALÎLÂ (DELILAH) conceived by SAMSON, and whilst she was with child SAMSON died with the PHILISTINES; and DELILAH brought forth a son and she called p. 138 his name "MENAHEM", which is, being interpreted, "Seed of the strong man".
...Now DELILAH was the sister of MAKSÂBÂ, the wife of the King of the PHILISTINES, and when SAMSON slew the King of the PHILISTINES in the house with his people and his household, and he died with him, DELILAH went to her sister MAKSÂBÂ, the Queen of the PHILISTINES. Now both women were beautiful, and they had no children, but both had conceived; MAKSÂBÂ had been with child six months by ḲWÔLÂSÔN, the King of the PHILISTINES, and DELILAH had been with child four months by SAMSON; and the husbands of both were dead.
... And the people seated the son of MAKSÂBÂ on the throne of his father, and made him king over the PHILISTINES.
(Later)...ṬEBRÊLÊS, the son of MAKSÂBÂ, the King of the PHILISTINES....(after a quarrel)...’AKÊMÊḤÊL, the son of Delilah, drew his sword and cut off his head....
And they took him (son of Delilah) and set him on the throne, and they prepared a feast, and rejoiced. And from that time onward the son of SAMSON reigned over them, and there was none who transgressed his commandment—now he committed this act [of murder] fif[teen] winters after he was born—and the kingdom of the PHILISTINES became his and his seed´s after him. Therefore, beloved, it is well known that the kingdom of the PHILISTINES belongeth to the seed of SHEM.
|Posted by: BJ1 (Unlogged) Aug 25 2004, 06:45 PM|
| This is a sort of P.S. "Their seal, that of the tribe of Dan, was affixed to the epistle -- an eagle with a dragon (serpent) in its claws!"
This differs from the US eagle as Seralia described, but isn't it the symbol of Mexico? On their coins is an eagle with a serpent in its talons.
|Posted by: JenThom Aug 25 2004, 08:20 PM|
The national symbol of Mexico is the eagle with a snake in its talons which would mean that Tribe of Dan was down there.
I think I read in one of DarmonVing's posts that either the Aztecs or Incas said that a red haired race had originally built their temples. Small world isn't it?
This is supposedly why the Eagle and the snake are Mexico's National Symbol.
Here's a description of it:
|Posted by: JenThom Aug 25 2004, 08:56 PM|
| Here is part of the quote that DarmonVing posted:
The Uru were involved with the Incas but they might have had something to do with the Aztec monuments too.
The Uru are also considered to be one of Australia's lost megalithic cultures and this is one of their symbols that was found on one of the rocks there that they say is an altar.
It's supposed to be an eagle.
This is a good article that was written back in 1979..
Australia's Lost Civilisation
That's amazing that these advanced people were in Australia as far back as 25 thousand years building pyramids and other types of structures. I think I read something over at GLP about people thinking that the Pyramids in Egypt were the remains of a much older civilization.
More information here:
Pyramids In The Pacific - The Unwritten History Of Australia
|Posted by: JenThom Aug 25 2004, 09:51 PM|
| Oh yeah. The Aztecs did mention a red headed race.
|Posted by: JenThom Aug 25 2004, 10:12 PM|
You might want to take a look at this Seralia.
Dan In America - Part 2 Chapter 2
|Posted by: BJ1 Aug 26 2004, 07:32 AM|
| From JenThom's post: "...how else are we to explain the many stone and earthen pyramidal structures that have been found scattered throughout Queensland and New South Wales-as the work of world travelling Egyptians?" And...
"...a remarkable "door-like" structure. Constructed of two upright stone pillars."
In the book of Judges, we learn another trait of this tribe. In the song of Deborah and Barak, during the time of the Judges, the song asks, "Why did Dan remain in ships?" (Judges 5:17). Or, "Dan abode in ships." The tribe of Dan was a mighty SEA-FARING tribe, which loved to sail the seas.
The "Tower people," or Shardana, or tribe of Dan, conquered Corsica around 1400 B.C., the same time Israel entered the Promised Land under Joshua. Their occupation lasted until 800 B.C., or possibly as late as 500 B.C. (about the same time Assyria took Israel into captivity, 718-721 B.C., or near the time of the Babylonian captivity of Judah in 587 B.C.).
However, other Danites, who dwelt or abode in ships, and who associated themselves with the sea peoples of Tyre and Sidon, fled westward through the Mediterranean when northern Israel fell. Early Danites fled Egypt at the time of the Exodus, and migrated through SarDINia, and left their trail along the sea-coasts of the Mediterranean. Thus Dan, who was a "lion´s whelp" who would "leap from Bashan," leaped all the way to Ireland...
The true saga of the tribe of Dan, "a serpent by the way," who left a tantalizing, fascinating "trail" of waymarks along his path of journey, is one of the proofs of the modern location and identity of the so-called "Lost Ten Tribes of Israel." ...
This seems to tie in with JenThom's post:
"Egyptians", "Pyramids", "Abode in ships", "Tower people", "Fled westward through the Mediterranean", left a trail..."Serpent by the way", symbol is the "Eagle with a serpent in its claws." Tribe of Dan.
"Red-haired people" would also describe the Merovingians, who are said to have had "magical powers", and are said to be descended from the tribe of Dan.
|Posted by: Seralia Aug 27 2004, 11:46 AM|
| It all ties in perfectly. One of my friends who is an an avid researcher in ancient linguistics told me of a race that he and his colleagues called the Sea Kings who had traveled all over the place and that traces of their language turned up in America at one point. He had suspected that the ancient Minoans who had traveled to the Great Lakes region to mine for Iron Ore were the ancient Sea Kings but From JenThom's posts, the Sea Kings were a much older sea-faring race. My friend had also mentioned that the language that was spoken by the Sea Kings was the original root language that was spoken by several of the ancient races and that the closest language to the original root language was Scottish Gaelic. I've seen some of my friend's work with the language and it is quite impressive. I just wish that I had paid more attention to his translation methods.
Whoever they were, they were most likely the ones that became known as the Sidhe or Shee.
I found some information on them in one of the University of Phoenix online dictionaries.
It looks to me like one group has been chasing the other group around the world for centuries.
I need to play with this for a moment.
In one of JenThom's posts, the symbol of the Uru was the eagle... The tribe of Dan's symbol was the Eagle clutching the snake... A very similar symbol shows up in Mexico... From this I would have to say that the Eagle represents the Uru, which themselves, seemed to be one of the most advanced Megalithic races as of twenty five thousand years ago, and stirred things up a bit with the serpents... The one reason that I say that the tribe of Dan/Uru etc. are represented by the eagle is this.
Of course my train of thought just got shaken up a bit when I came up with this little quote about the lost "civilisation "of Australia.
So there were Eagle Altars and Serpent Altars which would indicate that there were possible two distinct groups. This ties in with ancient ruins found in New England which seem to indicate the same thing. In Massachusetts there was once this group of people that built unusual serpentine stone rows and made circles of rock that were said to repsent eggs and they would symbolically emerge from them. In other parts of New England, quite a few bird shaped carved boulders have been found. In the places where the carved bird stones were found, the stone rows were straight. I think my friend calls the one group the Sett group. The Minoans, I think were part of that group because one of their symbols was the snake. They had also monopolized the ancient sea trade and were considered to be one of the most warlike of the ancient sea cultures and were not much different than the Vikings prior to their downfall. I would also consider acient Minoan Crete to have been not much different than the United States is today so I would definitely have to say that the Sett group has risen from the ashes after the explosion of There decimated their homeland, like the Phoenix, that was supposed to have been the symbol of the United States and are picking up where they left off.
From the same page concerning the Serpent.
|Posted by: Seralia Aug 27 2004, 01:22 PM|
| I was right about the Minoans being associated with the Serpent.
MINOAN SNAKE GODDESS
It seems that there is a lot of controversy concerning the goddess. Modern Archaeology hiding the truth at its finest. Notice how they waited until about 2000 to start bashing the goddess. I did mention that the Minoans had ventured to the Great Lakes regions, but failed to mention that they left behind some interesting artifact. One of which was a snake that was made out of some kind of metal. I'll have to see if I can find the book that has the picture of the artifact in since I haven't been able to find it online yet.
Mysteries of the Snake Goddess by Kenneth Lapatin
Snake Goddesses, Fake Goddesses
Volume 54 Number 1, January/February 2001
by Kenneth D.S. Lapatin
How forgers on Crete met the demand for Minoan antiquities
The Ancient Snake Goddess of Crete
Minoan Snake Goddess
by Dr Alena Trckova-Flamee, Ph.D.
This is a good read concerning the mythology of the serpent.
THE DIVINE SERPENT IN MYTH and LEGEND
[AS OF JUNE 1999] Robert T. Mason, Ph.D., D.D.
This is another good one concerning lightning lore:
|Posted by: Seralia Aug 27 2004, 01:33 PM|
| I did manage to find the book that's about the Minoans mining iron ore in the Great Lakes Region. It's definitely a good read and I've got an autographed first edition copy of it... somewhere.
Ancient Mines of Kitchi-Gummi
A Case Study by Roger Jewell
A lot of archaeologists think that the Native inhabitants mined the ore. However, none of them have ever been able to find the missing ore anywhere in America in any archaeological dig.
|Posted by: Seralia Aug 27 2004, 01:45 PM|
| I don't believe it! I found the image of the snake on line.
BTW, does this look like the eye of a serpent to you?
This little tidbit ties in with the Dan in America article.
Ancient Mines of Kitchi-Gummi
|Posted by: Seralia Aug 27 2004, 02:11 PM|
| Then of course there's that serpent mound in Ohio that I forgot about.
And then there's those mysterious iron ore furnaces that are also located in Ohio that I just found information about.
Ohio's Prehistoric Furnaces
|Posted by: BJ1 Aug 27 2004, 10:34 PM|
| Here is some more on the serpent people.
I took the following from the Azazel thread that was posted by "Anonymer Feigling" at GLP:
"THE SERPENT PEOPLE
"The nagas are still worshiped as deities in most
villages of southern India."
"Hindu Polytheism" ~ Sri Alain Danielou
WHO WERE THE NAGAS ?
In the above quoted book, it is said of them:
"The nagas are linked with the antigods [asuras]. They are represented as half human, half serpent. They are possessed of great courage and are quick and violent. They are handsome and wear jewels, crowns, and large earrings....
"The nagas are also known as serpents (sarpa), creeping-creatures (pannaga), those creeping-on-their-chests (uraga), those creeping-on-their-shoulders (bhu-janga), goat-eaters (ajagara)....
[The following quote reminds me of a bit from Seralia's post:
"As part of the surrender terms the Túatha Dé Danann agreed to dwell underground in the síde (singular síd), the hills or mounds that dot the Irish landscape."]
"The nagas dwell in an underworld, the serpent-world (naga-loka), which is an immense domain crowded with palaces, houses, towers, and pleasure gardens. This serpent world is also called Patala or Niraya [Hell]. It´s main city is the City-of-Pleasures (Bhogovati) ruled by Vasuki."
These serpent-people are considered genii in the Hindu pantheon. That is (to use the Theosophical Society´s glossary once more) ..."
"...s Iblis in Islamic lore, the Watcher Azazel is said to be the father of all evil genii. Lilith, the first wife of Adam (that didn´t quite work out) is said to be the mother of the djinn - particularly the efreet.
And who does this website think are these "snake people"? PHOENICIANS!
The following is a description of the djinns/jinns mentioned often enough that it should be added here. Had to Google for this one:
The highest of the jinns is Iblis , formerly called Azazel , the prince of darkness, or the Devil. The jinns were thought by some to be spirits that are lower than angels because they are made of fire and are not immortal. They can take on human and animal shapes to influence men to do good or evil. They are quick to punish those indebted to them who do not follow their many rules.
According to the Encyclopædia Britannica, a djinn, a jinn, or a genie is, a supernatural spirit below the level of angels and devils in Arabic mythology.
There are also the Ghul which are shape shifters and dream invaders, The ifrit which are diabolic, evil spirits, and Sila was a spirit that takes on different forms.
They delight in punishing humans for any harm done to them, intentionally or unintentionally, and are said to be responsible for many diseases and all kinds of accidents; however, those human beings knowing the proper magical procedure can exploit the D’jinn to their advantage.
D’jinns are to this day held sacred by many Muslims, It is as natural to believe in the D’jinn as it is for Christians to believe in demons.
|Posted by: BJ1 Aug 27 2004, 10:46 PM|
| More on the Phoenix:
In Egyptian mythology, the Phoenix was a mystical bird offered to Ra, the sun god of Egypt. It had splendid golden-red plummage, making it look like it was wrapped in flame. Some versions had it shown in flames rather than feathers.
The bird lived in Arabia. The tale goes that it lived for a period of 500 years. At the end of its life´s cycle, it built a nest, and as it was dying, set the nest on fire, and was consumed in the flames. After its death, a new Phoenix was born to repeat the cycle.
Later stories have the Phoenix as living to the equivalent of a Platonic year, calculated by the alignment of the sun, moon, and the five planets known at that time to return to their original positions every 12.994 years.
The Phoenix is a constellation in the Southern Hemisphere of Earth, almost universally recognized as a bird.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Aug 28 2004, 12:00 PM|
| I see that this thread has really taken off. I'm just sorry that I haven't been able to post sooner but I'm having a little problem with the phone company and now have to post from a friend's house until the problem is resolved.
I once was involved with archaeological research and have noticed that there were two distinct groups living in New England at one time with one of them apparently worshiping the snake and the other worshipping birds. I live near a fairly large undeveloped area where a number of unusual stones have been found and just quite recently, it was discovered that some of them did indeed resemble birds. As Seralia mentioned, the stone rows or walls were all fairly straight. Some of the stones had clear astronomical and solar allignments and though, some of them appeared to be simple, they were actually quite complex when people actually sat down and studied them. There was nothing that was found to indicate that the people that inhabited the area were hostile and I actually enjoyed going to some of these bird people sites. They were quite peaceful.
However, I was invited to tour one archaeological site in particular that was located somewhere in central Connecticut and there were a number of serpentine rows and stone monuments including stone chambers and I couldn't wait to get the hell out of there. I think that I even visited the chamber pictured in Seralia's post a few years ago and yes it does look like the eye of a serpent. I think that it's somewhere in New York State.
I don't know what it was about these places but I didn't feel comfortable about being within the vicinity of the structures or monuments that were built by these snake people. I remember being with a few other people and this site was about a mile walk through a swampy patch of woods to one of the serpent sites and none of us thought that we would make it out of the woods alive. The entire area just seemed to have an evil quality to it.
Seralia mentioned that these people were in Massachusetts but they were definitely in Connecticut and possibly even Rhode Island. There's a town in Connecticut that I really don't have the urge to visit called Hammonasset and there's either a place or a tribe in Rhode Island called Narragansett.
I can also agree that the Minoans were the serpent people, and after reading Seralia's material, it seems likely that the Tuatha de Danaan were chased right out of the sea by either the Minoans or the Phoenicians. Phoenicians! People of the Phoenix?
It was clear that the Tuatha de Danaan were on the run if they really did burn their boats. From what I remember there were two distinct linguistic groups in Ireland according to Barry Fell and one of them ended up in New England and almost all traces of their existence in Ireland appeared to have been wiped out. The only thing that I really wonder about is whether or not the Tuatha de Danaan were a 50/50 alien/human hybrid or a 100% human or martian (other planet) species or something in between.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Aug 28 2004, 12:47 PM|
| Oh this is interesting.
|Posted by: BJ1 Aug 28 2004, 01:40 PM|
| More on the tribe of Dan. The following will enlarge on Seralia's post regarding the Minoans, with DarmonVing's findings:
Sumer , regardless of what historians would have you believe, ruled over Turkey as well as the Minoan culture. The alleged founder of the Minoan dynasty was King Minos, the hero of the later Greeks. But King Minos was in fact the same...Menes, Manj, Manis, etc., the emperor of the Sumerian Empire and the son of King Sargon. The Minoan culture was a mirror of the Sumerian and the period of Menes in Egypt.
A Tribe of Dan was the sector that seperated from Moses during the Exodus to re-establish Northern Territories. To map out where they were , where they had been and who they are..always watch for the root words...din, dan, den, don, dn, . and roots thereof . This was their marker for the other Israelites to follow. As you will see, blood and human sacrifice was practiced among this Israelite sector.
Odin is of the Kingship or Shepherd lineage, also known as Dragon Kings, which have made him and his families of high percent Anunnaki blood. (blue blood) 'Go forth and multiply' . ... Note: The kingship line only married within the family line to keep the Anunnaki blood pure..thus giving them god status. Priam Herman L. Hoeh traced Odin's linege back to Jacob, which confims he was of the kingship line.
People of Trace , Native American Indian and Pics
...They painted their bodies blue and sacrificed human victims to their gods. (They may have painted the bodies blue to honor a lost race that very few people are familiar with . This is a blue skinned race that I can prove actually did exist. Please see bluepeople ..sutherland ) ... (BJ: Next post on the "blue people".)
(The following reflects both JenThom's and Seralia's posts concerning Mexico and the trail of the serpent.)
"... THE MEXICANS CELEBRATED WO(DAN) AS THE FOUNDER OF THEIR RACE, just as our own ancestors did. The WODAN or ODIN OF SCANDINAVIA can be proved to be the [same as]...the WODAN OF MEXICO..."
The book Fingerprints of the Gods mentions that "there were other gods, among the Maya..., whose identities seemed to merge closely with those of Quetzalcoatl. One was VOTAN, a great civilizer, who was described as pale-skinned, bearded and wearing a long robe. Scholars could offer no translation for his name but his principal symbol, like that of Quetzalcoatl, was a serpent." (By Graham Hanthingy. Crown Trade Paperbacks, N.Y. 1995. P. 103.)
When did this occur? TEN CENTURIES BEFORE THE TIME OF CHRIST, notes the historian Ordonez!
What is clear however is that the plumed serpent was a symbol of political power, and wherever he appeared carved in stone, signs of ritual human sacrifice would be found nearby.
(DarmonVing, you wrote: "I don't know what it was about these places but I didn't feel comfortable about being within the vicinity of the structures or monuments that were built by these snake people." This could be why!)
(Note: The Phoenix is sometimes drawn with firy red plumes. This site is of the persuasion that there is a connection between the Tribe of Dan and the Phoenicians in that they are found together in their journeys.)
|Posted by: BJ1 Aug 28 2004, 01:59 PM|
| We posted about the green people in England, now here's a race of blue people.
THE BLUE PEOPLE OF KENTUCKY
Madison Cawein began hearing rumors about the blue people when he went to work at the University of Kentucky's Lexington medical clinic in 1960. "I'm a hematologist, so something like that perks up my ears," Cawein says, sipping on whiskey sours and letting his mind slip back to the summer he spent "tromping around the hills looking for blue people."
Cawein drew "lots of blood" from the Ritchies and hurried back to his lab. He tested first for abnormal hemoglobin, but the results were negative.
Stumped, the doctor turned to the medical literature for a clue. He found references to methemoglobinemia dating to the turn of the century, but it wasn't until he came across E. M. Scott's 1960 report in the Journal of Clinical Investigation (vol. 39, 1960) that the answer began to emerge.
Scott was a Public Health Service doctor at the Arctic Health Research Center in Anchorage who had discovered hereditary methemoglobinemia among Alaskan Eskimos and Indians. ...
Scott's Alaskans seemed to match Cawein's blue people. If the condition were inherited as a recessive trait, it would appear most often in an inbred line.
"The bluest Fugates I ever saw was Luna and her kin," says Carrie Lee Kilburn, a nurse who works at the rural medical center called Homeplace Clinic. "Luna was bluish all over. Her lips were as dark as a bruise. She was as blue a woman as I ever saw."
As coal mining and the railroads brought progress to Kentucky, the blue Fugates started moving out of their communities and marrying other people. The strain of inherited blue began to disappear as the recessive gene spread to families where it was unlikely to be paired with a similar gene.
BLUE SKINNED PEOPLE OF INDIA
Many thousands of years ago in the Raja Pura Valley in India lived the "Blue Race" of humanity. A race of blue skinned people, just like others today are brown, yellow, red, white or black. Only legends now remain about the blue race. However, both Shiva and Krishna were from the blue race.
The link below has pictures: HISTORY OF A BLUE SKINNED RACE - Krishna and Shiva - India.
Once, in addition to the four known races of mankind, there was a fifth race that dwelled on an unknown continent in the middle of the ocean between Asia and Europe (i.e., North America). This race, the most ancient of all, was called the Blue Moovians. They were very tall, about seven feet, and very thin, and had extremely large heads.
More Blue People
Several years ago, I came across a report done by the British on the Native American Indian. According to the report, the Cherokee talked of these blue skinned people that lived on the land before the Cherokee. It was reported that the Cherokee wiped them out.
Through an inteview I did with Blue Otter, Cherokee Indian himself and author of Prophecy Keepers, I found out that these blue skinned people were not wiped out but lived in the caves below the surface of the earth. He told me that the Cherokee accounts tell that when they came into this land, they found many gardens but not the people that would have tended to the gardens. Later they found that these people of the gardens lived underground and came out only at night to tend the gardens. The food was harvested and then taken back underground to the homes they had there. These people had blue skin , large eyes . The sun rays were too harsh for them on the surface so they chose to live underground away from the harsh rays of the sun and only come out at night using the light of the moon. The Cherokee called them 'the moon people'.
Although it was assumed that this race of blue skinned people were wiped out by the Cherokee, we discovered recently that this may not be true. Several men were exploring some deep caves in Arkansas. After going down so deep, someone or thing started throwing rocks at them, apparently attempting to discourage them from going any deeper into the cave. The men scared off whatever or whoever it was that were throwing the stones and continued to go down deeper . After about 1 mile down into the cave they came upon some plastic type tansparent tubes . At this point they could not go any further. But they could see a city on the other side and saw several people with blue skin.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Aug 28 2004, 02:33 PM|
I just remembered something. There is one place that I've heard about for a while now but really don't want to explore it myself and that's Mystery Hill in New Hampshire.
Mystery Hill: America's Stonehenge?
Though I have seen a number of altars, the one at mystery Hill is the only one that I've seen that was definitely constructed for sacrificial purposes. The bird people had altars but most of the evidence indicates that they were used for cremation funeral purposes and not for sacrifices. The Natives that had encountered the bird people had said that they were quite a peaceful race and that they had come to New England in long boats. They were described as people with red hair and eyes like the blue sky. One of their settlements was in the Hudson Valley in New York State and I went there quite a few times doing comparative research with a few archaeologists without feeling any type of negativity.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Aug 28 2004, 02:41 PM|
| It's odd that you should mention the Blue people BJ. I used google and found this interesting account.
The Blue People of Troublesome Creek
Adapted from an article in Science 82, November 1982 by Cathy Trost
It all started over 6 generations ago after a French orphan named Martin Fugate claimed a land grant in 1820 and settled on the banks of eastern Kentucky's Troublesome Creek, with his red-headed American bride, the former Elizabeth Smith, whose skin was as pale as the mountain laurel that blooms every spring around the creek hollows. The Fugates had seven children, four were reported to be blue. The clan kept multiplying. Fugates married other Fugates. Sometimes they married first cousins. And they married the people who lived closest to them, the Combses, Smiths, Ritchies, and Stacys. All lived in isolation from the world, bunched in log cabins up and down the hollows, and so it was only natural that a boy married the girl next door, even if she had the same last name.
"When they settled this country back then, there was no roads. It was hard to get out, so they intermarried," says Dennis Stacy who counts Fugate blood in his own veins.
Martin and Elizabeth Fugate's blue children multiplied in this natural isolation tank. The marriage of one of their blue boys, Zachariah, to his mother's sister triggered the line of succession that would result in the birth, more than 100 years later of Benjy Stacy. When Benjy was born with purple skin, his relatives told the perplexed doctors about his great grandmother Luna Fugate. One relative described her as "blue all over" and another calls Luna "the bluest woman I ever saw". Luna's father, Levy Fugate, was one of Zachariah Fugate's sons. Levy married a Ritchie girl and bought 200 acres of rolling land along Ball Creek. The couple had 8 children, including Luna. A fellow by the name of John Stacy spotted Luna at Sunday services of the Old Regular Baptist Church before the turn of the century. Stacy courted her, married her, and moved from Troublesome Creek to make a living in timber on her daddy's land. John Stacy still lives on Lick Branch of Ball Creek. Stacy recalls that his father-in-law, Levy Fugate, was "part of the family that showed blue. All them old fellers way back then was blue. One of em - I remember seeing him when I was just a boy - Blue Anze, they called him. Most of them old people we by that name - the blue Fugates. It run in that generation who lived up and down Ball Creek".
"They looked like anybody else, cept they had the blue color," Stacy said.
"The bluest Fugates I ever saw was Luna and her kin," said Carrie Lee Kilburn, a nurse at the rural medical center called Homeplace Center. "Luna was bluish all over. Her lips were as dark as a bruise. She was as blue a woman as I ever saw."
Luna Stacy possessed the good health common to the blue people bearing at least 13 children before she died at 84. The clinic rarely saw her and never for anything serious.
Benjy Stacy was born in a modern hospital near Hazard, Kentucky, not far from Troublesome Creek. He inherited his father's lankiness and his mother's red hair but what he got from his great, great, great grandfather was dark blue skin! The doctors were astonished, not so the parents, but the boy was rushed off to a medical clinic in Lexington (University of Kentucky Medical School). Two days of tests showed no cause for Benjy's blue skin.
Benjy's grandmother Stacy asked the doctor's if they had heard of the blue Fugates of Troublesome Creek. Put on that track, they concluded that Benjy's condition was inherited. Benjy lost his blue tint within a few weeks and now he is about as normal a 7-year old boy as you might imagine. His lips and fingernails still turn a purplish blue when he gets cold or angry and that trait was exploited by the medical students back when Benjy was an infant.
|Posted by: BJ1 Aug 28 2004, 03:38 PM|
| DarmonVing, we visited the same site to get the info re the "Blue People of Kentucky". This ought to round out both posts.
They're known simply as the "blue people" in the hills and hollows around Troublesome and Ball Creeks. Most lived to their 80s and 90s without serious illness associated with the skin discoloration. For some, though, there was a pain not seen in lab tests. That was the pain of being blue in a world that is mostly shades of white to black.
Just like the Alaskans, their blood had accumulated so much of the blue molecule that it over- whelmed the red of normal hcmoglobin that shows through as pink in the skin of most Caucasians.
Once he had the enzyme deficiency isolated, methylene blue sprang to Cawein's mind as the "perfectly obvious" antidote. Some of the blue people thought the doctor was slightly addled for suggesting that a blue dye could turn them pink. But Cawein knew from earlier studies that the body has an alternative method of converting methemoglobin back to normal. Activating it requires adding to the blood a substance that acts as an "electron donor." Many substances do this, but Cawein chose methylene blue because it had been used successfully and safely in other cases and because it acts quickly.
The doctor gave each blue family a supply of methylene blue tablets to take as a daily pill. The drug's effects are temporary, as methylene blue is normally excreted in the urine. One day, one of the older mountain men cornered the doctor. "I can see that old blue running out of my skin," he confided.
(This story had a happy ending! )
|Posted by: DarmonVing Aug 28 2004, 10:23 PM|
| I found some more information on the Phoenicians whom were also known as the Panch by the Egyptians and a very surprising connection with the ancient Hopi as well as a connection between the Hopi and ancient India.
Is the Hopi Deity Kokopelli an Ancient Hindu God?
What the Hopi Indians Need to Know About Themselves!
|Posted by: BJ1 Aug 29 2004, 10:02 AM|
| From DarmonVing's post:
"Panch was a Sanskrit name for Pani or Phoenician.
The Able Panch setting out to invade the earth, brought the whole world under their sway. (From the Mahabharata.) Indra hath raised the Sun on high in heaven. Indra leads us with single sway - the Panch leaders of the Earth. (Taken from the Rg Veda.)"
In the Azazel thread, the Tribe of Dan was traced to the Phoenicians, then through Samson, to the Freemasons, then to the Merovingians, who are prominent in today's politics. "The Able Panch (Phoenicians) setting out to invade the earth...".
It would seem that the same has never lost sight of its goal:
"The Merovingians, who plan to rule the world from their future throne at Jerusalem, claim to come from the tribe of Judah through Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene. However, the weight of evidence indicates that they descended from the tribe of Dan.
Although Scripture states that Samson was “of the family of the Danites” [Judges 13:2], Yair Davidy of Brit-Am Israel claims that his lineage includes the Messianic tribe of Judah: “Samson the superman hero came from the Tribe of Dan but his mother was from Judah. ... "
Note: The bloodline record of the Merovingians is kept at the Rennes le Chateau in France. Are these the snake people? It would appear that they are...and are in control of all of the earth's resources. They are the merchants of old.
|Posted by: JenThom Aug 29 2004, 11:27 AM|
Not quite. The tribe of Dan was the 13th tribe and the Merovingians were descended from the tribe of Benjamin or the 12th tribe according to some of the information that I've been able to find about them.
DarmonVing posted information about the Phoenician's transporting the Hopi to America and they also transported the Benjamites somewhere.
Mary Maddalene was supposedly from the tribe of Benjamin and the founding Merovingian was one of her descendants.
This is one of the Merovingian artifacts that is from the Rennes-le-Château. If I'm not mistaken, there are serpents all over the artifact.
|Posted by: JenThom Aug 29 2004, 12:32 PM|
|Posted by: JenThom Aug 29 2004, 12:56 PM|
| Enter the Knights Templar.
When I read about Mary Magdalene having been possessed, this little Bushism suddenly came to mind.
The goals for this country are peace in the world. And the goals for this country are a compassionate American for every single citizen. That compassion is found in the hearts and souls of the American citizens." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2002
|Posted by: BJ1 Aug 29 2004, 12:57 PM|
| "Not quite. The tribe of Dan was the 13th tribe and the Merovingians were descended from the tribe of Benjamin or the 12th tribe according to some of the information that I've been able to find about them."
Woops! According to the Bible, Dan was always considered one of the 12 tribes as found in the following chapters:
Jacob's blessing of his 12 sons included Ruben, his firstborn; Simeon and Levi, brothers; Juda; Zabulon; Issachar; DAN, a SERPENT in the way; Gad; Aser; Nephtali; Joseph; and Benjamin. Genesis 49.
The 12 tribes are numbered, including Ruben, Simeon, Gad, Juda, Issachar, Zabulon, Joseph (Manasses and Ephraim), Benjamin, DAN, Aser, Nephtali, and Levi. Numbers 26.
Moses blesses the tribes including Ruben, Juda, Levi, Benjamin, Joseph (Manasses and Ephraim), Zabulon, Issachar, Gad, DAN, Nephtali, Aser. Deut. 33. Simeon is not mentioned here, but is named in getting his portion of the land in Joshua 19.
Some historians like to use words such as "claims, allegedly, thought to be, supposedly, presumably" and the like. This is not recorded history, but more of myth making. The truth comes out through much painstaking research. In this case, the Bible is our best source for the number and naming of the tribes.
|Posted by: JenThom Aug 29 2004, 01:23 PM|
| Since I mentioned the Knights Templar, I might as well add this piece of information because one of my friends has a Templar sword that once belonged to a banker back in the 1930's.
|Posted by: JenThom Aug 29 2004, 02:18 PM|
The Minoans were also associated with the butterfly.
Interestingly enough, the Hopi have two dances; The Snake Dance and the Butterfly Dance.
|Posted by: JenThom Aug 29 2004, 02:21 PM|
| Here is something else that seems to tie the Hopi with the Minoans.
Then there's the Eagle Dance that the Hopi and a few other tribes perform.
The Eagle Dance is very similar to the Cretan Dances.
|Posted by: Mark Aug 29 2004, 04:50 PM|
| Wow so much good info to absorb!!!
I've been away since Aug 26th, I was unable to access my domain for the past 3 days. I didn't wanna worry anyone or make a post in case the spammer was lurking. I recently had banned 3 IP address that were used to spam this forum.
Perhaps the payback was to block me from my own website?
I had contacted my host and my ISP and both said they were not blocking me.
But something was.
I could not access this website from my computer.
The same thing happened to me at GLP in Dec 2003 and then at the OSA forum in Feb 2004.
It really sucks though when it happens to your own forum.
I'll try and catch up and read the various posts, thanks to everyone for all of the knowledge.
|Posted by: JenThom Aug 29 2004, 05:20 PM|
I'm glad to see that you're not being blocked now PuPP. Seralia, DarmonVing, BJ and I have really been adding a lot of material here and we all seem to be turning up references to serpents that seems to tie in with some of the material that you have posted.
|Posted by: JenThom Aug 29 2004, 05:28 PM|
You're right BJ.
Sometimes it's just a little bit confusing for me to keep track of the tribes and how many or them are actually lost and which ones are still lurking around.
|Posted by: JenThom Aug 29 2004, 05:53 PM|
| I found a few more mentions of the tribe of Benjamin that need to be esearched further but I thought I'd throw them in. There's actually a lot of information on he page but I'm just a little bit too worn out to sift through it and look for additional information at the moment.
|Posted by: BJ1 Aug 29 2004, 08:14 PM|
| Nothing is as it seems with the Rennes Le Chateau mysteries.
"The Magdalene´s heirs married into the Visigoth families of the time and gave birth to the sacred Merovingian ruling family. The Visigoths of the area might have themselves been descended from the House of Benjamin, which had fled to the Arcadia region of Greece, and thence north into France, a thousand years earlier."
(Note the "might have been" words used in reference to the Visigoths as perhaps being decsendants of the House of Benjamin.)
"It was thought that the Merovingian lineage was extinguished; in any case it was excised from the history books.
But there is some evidence that Dagobert´s son, Siegebert IV, survived and that a Merovingian principality continued to be ruled in Septimania by Guillem de Gellone, a descendant -- and ancestor -- of Godfroi de Bouillon.
Dagobert married the daughter of the Visigothic Count of Razes, giving his descendants hereditary title to the lands surrounding Rennes-le-Ch‰teau.
If the Prieure documents are to be believed, the Merovingian lineage persists to this day, largely due to efforts to preserve it through intermarriage."
From JenThom's post: "According to literature of the"Prieure de Sion", Benjamites are integral to their Order."
(If this is true, it would pretty much rule out the tribe of Dan, although there are documents that tie Dan to the serpent people who left a trail all over the world, and there are links to the Freemasons, which are linked to the Priory of Zion...Rennes le Chateau.)
"What the Priory seeks is a unification of a Europe without borders, to be called the United States of Europe."
The connections, through the centuries point to alliances with the Vatican, the Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland, and the Shugsborough Hall in Staffordshire England, and others.
The following is some more that supports JenThom's post concerning the Benjamites:
"...In legend, the Merovingians were said to be descended from the Trojans, and Homer reports that Troy was founded by a colony of Arcadians.
The "Prieure documents" claim that the Arcadians were descended from Benjamites driven out of Palestine by their fellow Israelites for idolatry."
So, who are these people? Are they Danites or Benjamites? Or both? In the Book of Revelations 7, Dan is not listed among the tribes, but Benjamin is. Did these two rebellious tribes merge? Hmmmmm.
Like you, JenThom, I'm too tired to pursue this tonight.
|Posted by: Seralia Aug 31 2004, 02:20 PM|
| I think that I have found something about the Tribe of Dan. For some reason, it appears that they divided their forces into three groups.
Then it appears that the Tribe of Benjamin joined forces with the Tribe of Judah.
I'm not really sure but I think that the tribe of Dan was also known as the tribe of judgement and their original symbol or standard was the Eagle.
The Book of Kells
If it is true that the tribe of Dan was divided into three groups then it is possible that at least one of these groups also joined up with the tribe of Benjamin and at least one of the groups had to flee because of the power that the tribe of Benjamin had suddenly acquired once they joined the Tribe of Judah.
|Posted by: Guest Aug 31 2004, 09:41 PM|
|Everybody gets this one wrong!! Ham, son of Noah was NOT, I repeat NOT the one that was cursed. It was Ham's first born that was cursed.|
|Posted by: BJ1 Sep 1 2004, 07:01 AM|
| Hello, Guest! I took a trip back in time to Genesis 9: 22-27. Noah had too much wine, was made drunk, and was sleeping it off:
"Which when Ham the father of Canaan had seen, to wit, that his father's nakedness was uncovered, he told it to his two brothers who were without.
But when Shem and Japheth put a cloak upon their shoulders, and going backward covered the nakedness of their father: and their faces were turned away, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
And Noah awakening from the wine, when he had learned what his YOUNGEST son had done to him,
He said, "Cursed be Canaan (son of Ham): a servant of servants shall he be unto his bretheren.
And he said, "Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; be Canaan his servant.
May God enlarge Japheth, and may he dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan be his servant."
It would appear that Ham was the father of the Canaanites, who bore the curse.
In Chapter 10 we read that one of the sons of Ham was Chus, who begot Nimrod, who built the tower of Babylon. They would not serve! It is my thought that these later spawned the Phillistines (Giants), a very bad group of folks who practiced cannabalism, idolatry, bestiality, and human sacrifice. Could be wrong on that, but history "seems" to bear that out.
|Posted by: Guest Sep 1 2004, 06:28 PM|
| Hello BJ,
Didn't mean to yell, I just get frustrated when people say Ham and not Cannan. Many people try to attribute the "curse of Ham" as the reason/justification for slavery. Although what you quoted didn't mention Ham in a blessing, he wasn't mentioned in the curse either. I think sometimes people want to draw a conclusion of what they think the Bible is saying when sometimes things aren't so clear. I mean it's obvious that some of the books were left out for whatever reason so in some places there isn't a complete picture, just snippits. There are still many mysteries that haven't been revealed to us yet.
|Posted by: BJ1 (Unlogged) Sep 1 2004, 09:27 PM|
| Hello again, Guest. I'm glad you got back on this thread. I agree with your comment:
"I mean it's obvious that some of the books were left out for whatever reason..."
The same has been done down through the centuries, and is being done today. The purpose of this, I believe, is an attempt to keep us from knowing what took place in generations past.
|Posted by: BJ1 Sep 4 2004, 06:22 AM|
| I went Googling again in an effort to find out more about the Nagas. It is interesting that all of this ties in with the Freemasons of today, as these creatures are still in existance, but have kept themselves hidden underground.
Naga or Nagash represents the musical serpent of Babylon. The word lagash is very similar and implicates speaking in tongues. It all began in the garden of Eden which is the story of the attack upon God's people by the worship of the harlot Babylon. "She" is still in business and will be until the end (See Revelation 18)
"Udyana, in modern Pakistan, was famous for its water dragons. This is a story of one of those dragons. The Naga are thought to be semi-divine snakes with human faces and serpents tails. It is in the Patala, a watery region under the earth that they reside.
"Snakes or nagas are usually represented as gigantic cobras with several hoods, or with a human head and serpent body. They are considered the kings of all other snakes, capable of assuming beguiling human forms. They live in Patala loka and their capital city, Bhogvati, is the richest and the most beautiful city in the whole universe."
The Britannica Online notes that: Sanskrit NAGA ("serpent"), in Hindu and Buddhist mythology, a member of a class of semidivine beings, half human and half serpentine.
They are considered to be a strong, handsome race who can assume either human or wholly serpentine form.
They are regarded as being potentially dangerous but in some ways are superior to humans. They live in an underground kingdom called Naga-loka, or Patala-loka, which is filled with resplendent palaces, beautifully ornamented with precious gems.
The female nagas (or nagis), according to tradition, are serpent princesses of striking beauty, and the dynasties of Manipur in northeastern India, the Pallavas in southern India, and the ruling family of Funan (ancient Indochina) traced their origin to the union of a human being and a nagi.
In art, nagas are represented in a fully zoomorphic form, as hooded cobras but with from one to seven or more heads; as human beings with a many-hooded snake canopy over their heads; or as half human, with the lower part of their body below the navel coiled like a snake and a canopy of hoods over their heads. Often they are shown in postures of adoration as one of the major gods or heroes is shown accomplishing some miraculous feat before their eyes.
The naga, a superhuman spirit, was taken from Buddhist and Hindu texts and merged with native counterparts, with the result that different images of the naga appeared in various regions.
"The Nagas of Indian mythology were a race of serpent demons. Their name means 'those who do not walk, who creep.' Most often they manifested themselves as beasts with bodies that were half-man, half-serpent, although sometimes they assumed the shape of a dragon, or simply appeared in the guise of a cobra.
"They haunted lakes and rivers, but their true domain was a vast, idyllic region below the sea. In Patala, their underwater habitat, they hoarded great amounts of jewels and precious metals.
Here the demons dwelt with their seductive mates, the Naginis who, ike mermaids, seduced mortals into the briny depths.
"Nagarjuna of India, for example, is shown with an aura, or halo, of seven serpents which is an indication of a very high degree of Initiation.
"The symbolism of the seven serpents, usually cobras, are also on Masonic aprons of certain systems in the Buddhistic ruins of Cambodia (Ankhor) and Ceylon.
"The great temple-builders of the famous Ankhor Wat were considered to be the semi-divine Khmers. The avenue leading to the Temple is lined with the seven-headed Naga. And even in Mexico, we find the "Naga" which becomes "Nagal." In China, the Naga is given the form of the Dragon and has a direct association with the Emperor and is known as the "Son of Heaven"...while in Egypt the same association is termed "King-Initiate". The Chinese are even said to have originated with the Serpent demi-gods and even to speak their language, Naga-Krita.
(Good pics of serpents\Nagas on this site.)
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 7 2004, 04:52 PM|
| Thanx for the information on the Nagas BJ.
I just heard something on the news this morning that I just couldn't believe and ties in with JenThom's bit of research concerning the ancient stone builders in Australia.
Did first Americans come from ... Australia?
Researcher makes claim on basis of skulls and more
Updated: 9:59 p.m. ET Sept. 6, 2004
EXETER, England - Anthropologists stepped into a hornets’ nest on Monday, revealing research that suggests the original inhabitants of America may in fact have come from what is now known as Australia.
The claim will be extremely unwelcome to today’s native Americans, who came overland from Siberia and say they were there first.
But Silvia Gonzalez from John Moores University in Liverpool said that skeletal evidence pointed strongly to this unpalatable truth and hinted that recovered DNA would corroborate it.
“This is very contentious,” Gonzalez, a Mexican, said with a smile at the annual meeting of the British association for the Advancement of Science. “They (native Americans) cannot claim to have been the first people there.”
Evidence from skulls and DNA
She said there was very strong evidence that the first migration came from Australia via Japan and Polynesia and down the Pacific Coast of America.
Skulls of a people with distinctively long and narrow heads discovered in Mexico and California predated by several thousand years the more rounded features of the skulls of native Americans.
One particularly well preserved skull of a long-faced woman had been carbon-dated to 12,700 years ago, whereas the oldest accurately dated native American skull was only about 9,000 years old.
“We have extracted her DNA. It is going to be a bomb,” she said, declining to give details but adding that the tests carried out so far were being replicated to make sure they were accurate.
She said there were tales from Spanish missionaries of an isolated coastal community of long-face people in Baja California of a completely different race and rituals from other communities in America at the time.
These last survivors were wiped out by diseases imported by the Spanish conquerors, Gonzalez said.
The research is one of 11 different projects in America, Africa, Asia and the Middle East being funded over a four-year period by Britain’s Natural Environment Research Council.
The projects — focusing on diet, dating and dispersal of people down the millennia in the face of climate change — aim to rewrite anthropology.
“We want to make headlines from heads,” said Professor Clive Gamble of Southampton University. “DNA will give us a completely new map of the world and how we peopled it.”
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 8 2004, 08:45 PM|
| I saw this article posted over at GLP quite a while ago and I was lucky enough to find a copy of it on another site.
Egyptian Artifacts in the Grand Canyon
The Phoenix Gazette - April 5, 1909
Remarkable Finds Indicate Ancient People Migrated From Orient
The latest news of the progress of the explorations or what is now regarded by scientists as not only the oldest archaeological discovery in the United States, but one of the most valuable in the world, which was mentioned some time ago in the Gazette (see photo at left), was brought to the city yesterday by G.E. Kinkaid, the explorer who found the great underground citadel of the Grand Canyon during a trip from Green River, Wyoming, down the Colorado, in a wooden boat, to Yuma, several months ago.
According to the story related to the Gazette by Mr. Kinkaid, the archaeologists of the Smithsonian Institute, which is financing the expeditions, have made discoveries which almost conclusively prove that the race which inhabited this mysterious cavern, hewn in solid rock by human hands, was of oriental origin, possibly from Egypt, tracing back to Ramses. If their theories are borne out by the
translation of the tablets engraved with hieroglyphics, the mystery of the prehistoric peoples of North America, their ancient arts, who they were and whence they came will be solved.
Egypt and the Nile, and Arizona and the Colorado will be linked by a historical chain running back to ages, which staggers the wildest fancy of the fictionist. Under the direction of Professor S.A. Jordan, the Smithsonian Institute is now prosecuting the most thorough explorations, which will be continued until the last link in the chain is forged.
Nearly a mile underground, about 1480 feet below the surface, the long main passage has been delved into, to find another mammoth chamber from which radiates scores of passageways, like the spokes of a wheel. Several hundred rooms have been discovered, reached by passageways running from the main passage, one of them having been explored are 854 feet and another 634 feet. The recent finds include articles, which have never been known as native to this country and doubtless they had their origin in the orient.
War weapons, copper instruments, sharp - edged and hard as steel, indicate the high state of civilization reached by these strange people. So interested have the scientists become that preparations are being made to equip the camp for extensive studies, and the force will be increased to thirty or forty persons.
"Before going further into the cavern, better facilities for lighting will have to be installed, for the darkness is dense and quite impenetrable for the average flashlight. In order to avoid being lost, wires are being strung from the entrance to all passageways leading directly to large chambers. How far this cavern extends no one can guess, but it is now the belief of many that what has already been explored is merely the "barracks", to use an American term, for the soldiers, and that far into the underworld will be found the main communal dwellings of the families. The perfect ventilation of the cavern, the steady draught that blows through, indicates that it has another outlet to the surface."
Mr. Kinkaid was the first white child born in Idaho and has been an explorer and hunter all his life, thirty years having been in the service of the Smithsonian Institute. Even briefly recounted, his history sounds fabulous, almost grotesque:
"First, I would impress that the cavern is nearly inaccessible. The entrance is 1,486 feet down the sheer canyon wall. It is located on government land and no visitor will be allowed there under penalty of trespass."
The scientist's wish to work unmolested, without fear of the archaeological discoveries being disturbed by curio or relic hunters. A trip there would be fruitless, and the visitor would be sent on his way.
"The story of how I found the cavern has been related, but in a paragraph: I was journeying down the Colorado River in a boat, alone, looking for minerals. Some forty two miles up the river from the El Tovar Crystal canyon, I saw on the east wall, stains in the sedimentary formation about 2,000 feet above the river bed. There was no trail to this point, but I finally reached it with great difficulty. Above a shelf, which hid it from view from the river, was the mouth of the cave."
"There are steps leading from this entrance some thirty yards to what was, at the time the cavern was inhabited, the level of the river. When I saw the chisel marks on the wall inside the entrance, I became interested, securing my gun and went in."
"During that trip, I went back several hundred feet along the main passage till I came to the crypt in which I discovered the mummies. One of these I stood up and photographed by flashlight. I gathered a number of relics, which I carried down the Colorado to Yuma, from whence I shipped them to Washington with details of the discovery. Following this, the explorations were undertaken."
"The main passageway is about 12 feet wide, narrowing to nine feet toward the farther end. About 57 feet from the entrance, the first side-passages branch off to the right and left, along which, on both sides, are a number of rooms about the size of ordinary living rooms of today, though some are 30 by 40 feet square. These are entered by oval-shaped doors and are ventilated by round air spaces through the walls into the passages. The walls are about three feet six inches in thickness. The passages are chiseled or hewn as straight as could be laid out by an engineer. The ceilings of many of the rooms converge to a center."
"The side-passages near the entrance run at a sharp angle from the main hall, but toward the rear, they gradually reach a right angle in direction."
"Over a hundred feet from the entrance is the cross-hall, several hundred feet long in which is found the idol, or image, of the people's god, sitting cross-legged, with lotus flower or lily in each hand. The cast of the face is oriental, the carving shows a skillful hand, and the entire object is remarkably well preserved, as is everything in this cavern."
"The idol almost resembles Buddha, though the scientists are not certain as to what religious worship it represents. Taking into consideration everything found thus far, it is possible that this worship most resembles the ancient people of Tibet."
"Surrounding this idol are smaller images, some very beautiful in form; others crooked-necked and distorted shapes, symbolical probably, of good and evil. There are two large cactus with protruding arms, one on each side of the dais on which the God squats. All this is carved out of hard rock resembling marble. In the opposite corner of this cross-hall were found tools of all descriptions, made of copper."
"These people undoubtedly knew the lost art of hardening this metal, which has been sought by chemists for centuries without result. On a bench running around the workroom was some charcoal and other material probably used in the process. There is also slag and stuff similar to matte, showing that these ancients smelted ores, but so far, no trace of where or how this was done has been discovered, nor the origin of the ore."
"Among the other finds are vases or urns and cups of copper and gold, made very artistic in design. The pottery work includes enameled ware and glazed vessels. Another passageway leads to granaries such as are found in the oriental temples. They contain seeds of various kinds. One very large storehouse has not yet been entered, as it is twelve feet high and can be reached only from above. Two copper hooks extend on the edge, which indicates that some sort of ladder was attached. These grannies are rounded, as the materials of which they are constructed, I think is a very hard cement. A Gray metal is also found in this cavern, which puzzles the scientists, for its identity has not been established. It resembles platinum."
"Strewn promiscuously over the floor everywhere are what people call 'cats eyes,' a yellow stone of no great value. Each one is engraved with the head of the Malay type."
"On all the urns, or walls over doorways, and tablets of stone which were found by the image are the mysterious hieroglyphics, the key to which the Smithsonian Institute hopes yet to discover. The engraving on the tablets probably has something to do with the religion of the people. Similar hieroglyphics have been found in southern Arizona. Among the pictorial writings, only two animals are found. One is of prehistoric type."
"The tomb or crypt in which the mummies were found is one of the largest of the chambers, the walls slanting back at an angle of about 35 degrees. On these are tiers of mummies, each one occupying a separate hewn shelf. At the bead of each is a small bench, on which is found copper cups and pieces of broken swords. Some of the mummies are covered with clay, and all are wrapped in a bark fabric. The urns or cups on the lower tiers are crude, while as the higher shelves are reached, the urns are finer in design, showing a later stage of civilization."
"It is worthy of note that all the mummies examined so far have proved to be male, no children or females being buried here. This leads to the belief that this exterior section was the warriors' barracks. Among the discoveries, no bones of animals have been found, no skins, no clothing, no bedding. Many of the rooms are bare but for water vessels. One room, about 40 by 700 feet, was probably the main dining hall, for cooking utensils are found here."
"What these people lived on is a problem, though it is presumed that they came south in the winter and farmed in the valleys, going back north in the summer. Upwards of 50,000 people could have lived in the caverns comfortably. One theory is that the present Indian tribes found in Arizona are descendants of the serfs or slaves of the people, which inhabited the cave. Undoubtedly a good many thousand of years before the Christian era a people lived here which reached a high stage of civilization. The chronology of human history is full of gaps."
Professor Jordan much enthused over the discoveries and believes that the find will prove of incalculable value in archaeological work.
"One thing I have not spoken of, may be of interest. There is one chamber, the passageway to which is not ventilated, and when we approached it a deadly, snaky smell struck us. Our light would not penetrate the gloom, and until stronger ones are available, we will not know what the chamber contains. Some say snakes, but other boo-hoo'd this idea and think it may contain a deadly gas or chemicals used by the ancients. No sounds are heard, but it smells snaky just the same."
"The whole underground installation gives one of shaky nerves the creeps. The gloom is like a weight on one's shoulders, and our flashlights and candles only make the darkness blacker. Imagination can revel in conjectures and ungodly daydreams back through the ages that have elapsed till the mind reels dizzily in space."
AN INDIAN LEGEND
In connection with this story, it is notable that among the Hopi Indians the tradition is told that their ancestors once lived in an underworld in the Grand Canyon till dissension arose between the good and the bad, the people of one heart and people of two hearts.
Machetto, who was their chief, counseled them to leave the under world, but there was no way out. The chief then caused a tree to grow up and pierce the roof of the underworld, and then the people of one heart climbed out. They tarried by Paisisvai (Red River), which is the Colorado, and grew grain and corn. They sent out a message to the Temple of the Sun, asking the blessing of peace, good will and rain for people of one heart. That messenger never returned, but today at the Hopi villages at sundown can be seen the old men of the tribe out on the housetops gazing toward the sun, looking for the messenger. When he returns, their lands and ancient dwelling place will be restored to them. That is the tradition.
Among the engravings of animals in the cave is seen the image of a heart over the spot where it is located. The legend was learned by W.E. Rollins the artist, during a year spent with the Hopi Indians. There are two theories of the origin of the Egyptians. One is that they came from Asia; another that the racial cradle was in the upper Nile region. Heeren, an Egyptologist, believed in the Indian origin of the Egyptians. The discoveries in the Grand Canyon may throw further light on human evolution and prehistoric ages.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 8 2004, 09:00 PM|
| Here is some information about the Ancient Egyptians going over to Australia and leaving a considerable number of hieroglyphs.
Ancient Egypt Link with Australia
An Article by Paul White - 1996
After 5,000 years Australia's Amazing Hieroglyphs still struggle for recognition.
Egyptian hieroglyphs found in New South Wales:
The hieroglyphs tell the tale of early Egyptian explorers, injured and stranded, in ancient Australia. The discovery centres around a most unusual set of rock carvings found in the National Park forest of the Hunter Valley, 100 km north of Sydney.
The enigmatic carvings have been part of the local folklore of the area for nearly a century with reports of people who sighted them as far back as the early 1900's.
The site was secretly visited by families "in the know" in the 1950's and fell back into local mythology for a couple of decades until it was accidentally rediscovered by a man looking for his lost dog.
The carvings are in a rock cleft, a large block of split sandstone on a cliff-face that has created a small chasm or "chamber" of two flat stone walls facing each other that widens out from two to four metres and is covered in by a huge flat rock as a "roof" at the narrow end.
The cleft is most cave-like and only accessible by a small rock chute from above or below, well disguised from the average bush-walker.
When you first come up the rock chute and climb into the stone hallway you are immediately confronted by a number of worn carvings that are obviously ancient Egyptian symbols. These are certainly not your average Aboriginal animal carvings, but something clearly alien in the Australian bush setting.
There are at least 250 hieroglyphs.
At the end of the chamber, protected by the remaining section of stone roof, is a remarkable third-life sized carving of the ancient Egyptian god "Anubis", the Judge of the Dead !
|Posted by: BJ1 Sep 9 2004, 10:35 AM|
| Seralia, what a find! This put into remembrance not only JenThom's post about Australia and the trail of the snake, the sign of the Tribe of Dan, but a place either in Colorado or Arizona where a cave was found. Much was on the Azazel thread, that part of which is lost to me, but PuPP should have the info.
I wonder if it is the same cave. Can't remember the details.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 9 2004, 03:04 PM|
| I just remembered something about some ancient Egyptian/European artifacts being found in the mid-west somewhere about two years ago BJ. I did some searching and I found one of the stories as well as images of a few of the artifacts.
Does This Depict The Life Of Christ?
It was discovered in the American Midwest!
There was also supposedly a cave found in Illinois somewhere that was said to contain several artifacts.
The "Burrows Cave" Controversy
Update on Southern Illinois site
|Posted by: Mark Sep 9 2004, 05:53 PM|
| I Love this subject!
In 1909, The Smithsonian Institution found evidence of an advanced culture predating the Native Americans, and yet almost 100 years later, we're still not taught the truth in public schools.
Here's a newspaper clipping from 1947 that I think is relevant to this thread.
There's so much that has been kept from the mainstream public, I can't wait to see what we uncover next.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 9 2004, 06:49 PM|
| That's some very interesting information PuPP and I can add to it. I found out a little something about another cave that was discovered in New Mexico that was occupied by humans at least 27 thousand years ago.
Sandia Man Caves- New Mexico
|Posted by: BJ1 Sep 10 2004, 10:07 AM|
| Seralia and PuPP, my memory was jogged by remembering "Hopi" and came up Anasazi, which is what I wanted. Here are a couple of sites with terrific photos of their dwellings. Made me wonder what was/is underground! Maybe that is where they vanished. Theories abound.
"The national parks service and others are now applying the name Pueblo Dwellers to the aboriginal people who are commonly called the Anasazi (Ah-nah-sah-zee). This is a Navajo term for "Ancient Enemies" or "Ancient Ones." The Hopi call these people Hisatsinom for "Those-who-came-before." Other names used by non-native residents of the region are Moki or Moqui, a Hopi word meaning "the Dead". -who-came-before."
No one knows exactly why the Anasazi disappeared, nor where they went, but "In about 1200 AD the Anasazi had completely disappeared from the major dwelling-towns like those at Mesa Verde and Chaco Canyon." Two theories speculate that they were either driven out by a stronger race, or a severe drought caused their evacuation and they merged with the surrounding communities.
The following site has a series of 44 photos with wall paintings depicting horned people (priests?) strange-looking animals, and configurations.
Because the cliff walls high, steep, and too smooth to climb, how did the Anasazi manage to carve\paint the petrographs? Why risk the danger of falling unless those are important messages of some kind?
The Anasazi culture emerged, in the south western USA, long before the whites arrived and left a great amount of archaeological evidence. That can be seen now in the territory of the Four Corners, crossed by the modern borders of the four states of Arizona, New Mexico, Utah and Colorado.
The Anasazi culture, born around the time of Jesus Christ, slowly developed to originate the so called Chacoan Phenomenon, showing the apex for this population between 1050 and 1125 A.D.
(Dates vary, but 1 A.D. to 1300 A.D. is about right.)
Another interesting theory as to their sudden disappearance comes from a new "theory" or interprtation by archaeologists:
"By comparing the time when the Chaco Canyon culture was ended with the initial development of the same culture in the Aztec settlement and later at Casas Grandes in Mexico, the scientists found the two dates in close sequence....the most striking thing is that all the villages Aztec Ruins, Solomon Ruins, Chaco Canyon and Casas Grandes, are all perfectly aligned on the same meridian number 108. This is most unlikely by chance, being instead much more credible an intentional fact." (They just don't know how they did it. Problem: The Anasazi buildings don't resemble Aztec architecture???)
This site offers a series of 28 photos with lots of close-up details of outer Mesa Verde Anasazi cliff dwellings. Impressive!
|Posted by: Mark Sep 10 2004, 03:47 PM|
| More excellant info.... thanks!
Many people wonder what happened to these ancient civilizations and speculate that drought caused their demise.
Clearly the evidence shows in their structures that the Anasazi people were under attack from another race and built high walls and built way up high into steep cliffs to keep the invaders out.
One explanation could be that the smaller indians were under attack by a much taller race, one that was over 6 feet tall.
There's ample evidence of giants in North America, though it has been suppressed by the Smithsonian Institution and other organizations that keep the truth and facts hidden.
Nephilim/ Nefilim = NFL Films
(just my theory)
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 11 2004, 01:51 PM|
| This is an interesting story.
Ancient skeleton found in submerged cave
Friday, September 10, 2004 Posted: 10:03 AM EDT (1403 GMT)
MEXICO CITY, Mexico (AP) -- Divers making dangerous probes through underwater caves near the Caribbean coast have discovered what appears to be one of oldest human skeletons in the Americas, archaeologists announced at a seminar that was ending on Friday.
The report by a team from Mexico's National Institute of Anthropology and History exploits a new way of investigating the past. Most coastal settlements by early Americans now lie deep beneath the sea, which during the Ice Age was hundreds of feet lower than now.
Researchers at the international "Early Man in America" seminar here also reported other ancient finds -- including a California bone that is a rival for the title of the oldest in the Americas.
The discoveries fall close to the start of the time that traditional theories say a so-called Clovis culture could have moved from Asia to Alaska over a temporary land corridor that began to open about 13,500 years ago.
Many academics argue that new discoveries, especially in South America, prove the Clovis people found existing inhabitants, who may have arrived by hop scotching past the northern ice fields in small boats.
Arturo Gonzalez said his team discovered at least three skeletons in caves along the Caribbean coast of Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula in 2001 and 2002. Photos showed two remarkably well preserved.
"It's something that I had been dreaming of for many years," said Gonzalez, 39, who has combined diving and research since he was a teenager. "To find a person who had walked those caves was like a treasure."
Gonzalez said the bones must date from before the time that waters gradually seeped through the caves 8,000 to 9,000 years ago as Ice Age glaciers melted and sea level rose by about 400 feet worldwide.
Tests on charcoal found beside one female skeleton would place it at least 10,000 years ago. An expert at the University of California, Riverside, dated it as 11,670 radiocarbon years old -- which would translate to well over 13,000 calendar years.
If confirmed, "that would be the oldest" radio carbon date in the Americas obtained from a human bone, said archaeology textbook author Stuart Fiedel.
Fiedel, a defender of the "Clovis first" school, said the oldest estimate for the cave find still fits the Clovis time frame, though narrowly.
Larry Murphy, chief of the Submerged Resources Center for the U.S. National Park Service, said in a telephone interview that the Mexican exploration was "one of the first systematic studies of human materials associated with a submarine cave."
The discovery helps prove that humans inhabited the Yucatan at least 5,000 years before the famed Maya culture began building monuments at sites such as nearby Tulum.
Gonzalez said the skeleton did not appear to be Mayan, but with no tools yet found, almost nothing is known of those first inhabitants.
Gonzalez said cave divers had sometimes mentioned seeing skeletons and he convinced skeptical officials to finance a survey of the water holes that dot the Yucatan, a limestone shelf.
Extensive, flooded caves wind off from some of those holes. Many were above ground during the Ice Age and Gonzalez speculated people may have used them as paths down to fresh water.
Gonzalez said the oldest find was made 404 yards into a cave, more than 65 feet below sea level, during expeditions that can be extremely dangerous.
It took repeated trips to record the sites and excavate the bones, which then required two years of preservation.
Team co-director Carmen Rojas said the divers had 40 minutes to wind their way through the cave to the site, 20 minutes to work there and 40 minutes to swim back, followed by 20 to 60 minutes of decompression time.
"You train five years for those 20 minutes," she said.
Meanwhile, John Johnson of the University of California, Santa Barbara, said an elaborate restudy of a woman's femur found on Santa Rosa Island in California's Channel Islands established a calendar-year age of 13,200 to 13,500 years. It had been calculated at about 1,000 years less when found in 1959.
Both discoveries would be significantly older than the skeleton known Kennewick Man -- 9,300-year-old paleoindian remains found by teenagers along a Washington state riverbank in 1996.
Until now, the Americas have produced only 25 bones or skeletons dated as more than 8,000 years old, said Silvia Gonzalez of John Moores University in Liverpool, England. But she told the conference that she would soon publish a paper establishing that humans occupied a site near Puebla east of Mexico City 21,000 to 28,000 years ago.
|Posted by: BJ1 Sep 12 2004, 06:48 AM|
| Seralia, in one of your posts is mentioned something about the "Kennewick Man". Here is something interesting on the "Kennewick Man", found by "two men watching the annual hydro boat races at Columbia Park in Kennewick, Washington"...on July 28, 1996.
"Public interest, debate, and controversy began when an independent archaeologist, working on contract to the Kennewick coroner, decided the bones were ancient but might not be Native American. He described them as "Caucasoid" and sent a piece of bone to a laboratory to be dated. The final date indicated an age of 8,400 years, making Kennewick Man one of the oldest and most complete skeletons found in the Americas. But if it is true that these human remains are thousands of years old, and are not Native American, then who was Kennewick Man?"
Under U.S. law, if the bones of Kennewick Man are deemed to be the ancestral bones of a Native American tribe, then those remains must be returned to them for buial. There is an on-going court case, regarding the skeletal remains, between archeologists and American Indians, pitting scientific research against religious tradtion. Under NAGPRA law it states that, if the Indians can satisfactorily prove that the bones are those of an ancestor, then they must be repatriated to the affiliated tribe.
Updates on the Kennewick Man court case (since 1998):
Burke Museum comment:
On Mon., April 19, 2004, the Ninth Circuit denied the request for a rehearing en banc of the Bonnichsen decision (Kennewick Man case). While awaiting instructions from the legal owners (Army Corps of Engineers), the museum will continue to provide a secure and respectful repository for these human remains for as long as required by the court and the legal owners of the remains.
This story was published Thursday, August 5th, 2004
By Anna King, Herald staff writer
The eight-year clash over Kennewick Man's remains was settled in July, but how to study the 9,300-year-old bones and where they should go now continues to stir controversy.
The remains are considered to belong to one of the most complete ancient skeletons ever found. The 9th District Court ruled last month that the remains were not related to the existing tribes, and, therefore, could be studied by scientists.
The scientists asked the 9th District to exclude the tribes from any further involvement with the Kennewick Man case, because they won the court battle. The tribes say they still have a legal right to comment on how the study is conducted and what will become of the ancient remains after the study. They also are concerned the scientists will want to excavate the burial site along the bank of the Columbia River again.
The scientists asked the 9th District to exclude the tribes from any further involvement with the Kennewick Man case, because they won the court battle. The tribes say they still have a legal right to comment on how the study is conducted and what will become of the ancient remains after the study. They also are concerned the scientists will want to excavate the burial site along the bank of the Columbia River again.
It is unclear when the judge will reach a determination on whether the tribes can legally be excluded from commenting on the Kennewick Man study. Kennewick Man's remains are now stored at the University of Washington's Burke Museum in Seattle.
(The battle rages on as to whether the Tribal Council will have anything to say about further scientific study.)
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 12 2004, 07:16 PM|
| The Kennewick man is a very interesting case BJ. There were a number of tests conducted on the skeleton and from what I remember, the skull was definitely caucausoid and one reconstruction of the skull that was conducted revealed that he closely resembled Patrick Stewart/Captain Picard.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 12 2004, 07:29 PM|
| Here is some more information on the Kennewick man:
And I also found some information stating that Europeans were definitely in America 28,000 BC.
Saturday 19 February 2000
Europeans colonised America in 28,000 BC
By Roger Highfield, Science Editor, in Washington DC
EUROPEANS colonised America up to 30,000 years ago, perhaps by crossing the Atlantic, according to a genetic analysis of native Americans that sheds light on their origins.
By studying the DNA in "power packs" of cells called mitochondria, scientists can compare populations to reveal evidence of ancient migrations, the American Association for the Advancement of Science was told. Such work reveals four major lineages in native Americans which can be traced to Siberia and north-east Asia, notably in Baikal and Altai-Sayan.
However, a fifth - more minor - founding lineage, called haplogroup X, can be traced to Europe, and is found in North American populations, said Dr Theodore Schurr of the Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research in San Antonio, Texas. Dr Schurr said: "This is one of the intriguing findings that we have come across recently. These data imply that haplogroup X was present in the New World long before Europeans first arrived in the New World, before Columbus or the Vikings or anybody else."
The find has led to some speculation that ancient people crossed the Atlantic from the Old World, because evidence of the group has not so far been found in Asia, though he stressed that not all central Asian groups had been analysed. Dr Schurr said: "Haplogroup X was brought to the New World by an ancient Eurasian population in a migratory event distinct from those bringing the other four lineages to the Americas."
The haplogroup X occurs most among Algonkian-speaking groups such as the Ojibwa, and has been detected in two pre-Colombian north American populations. Today, haplogroup X is found in between two and four per cent of European populations, and in the Middle East, he said, particularly in Israel.
The complex origins of the first Americans has also been highlighted by an analysis of thousands of skulls from around the world. A team of anthropologists from the University of Michigan found that the study confirmed the complex origins of Native Americans that have been suggested by recent archeological and genetic studies.
Using comparisons of thousands of ancient and modern skulls, collected over a period of 20 years and containing new data from Mongolia that became accessible just last summer, Prof Loring Brace showed how the native inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere fit into several different groups based on craniofacial patterns. Their studies show that descendants of the first humans to enter the New World, including natives of Mexico, Peru, and the southern United States, have no obvious ties to any Asian groups. He said: "This could be because they have been separated from their Asian sources for the longest period of time."
A second group - including the Blackfoot, Iroquois, and other tribes from Minnesota, Michigan, Ontario, and Massachusetts - was descended from the Jomon, the prehistoric people of Japan. The Inuit appear to be a later branch from that same Jomon trunk. Tribal groups who lived down the eastern seaboard into Florida share this origin, according to prof Brace. Another group, originating in China and including the Athabascan-speaking people of the Yukon drainage of Alaska and north-west Canada, spread as far south as Arizona and northern Mexico.
He said: "Their craniofacial configuration allies them more closely to the living Chinese than to any other population in either hemisphere."
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 12 2004, 07:34 PM|
| Ancient American Skeleton Has European DNA Link
[Original headline: Sinkhole Skeleton - Skeleton’s DNA Could Shed Light on American Migrations]
Vanlue, Ohio [AP] — The discovery of prehistoric tools from an Ohio cave is one of several finds that has scientists questioning the identity of settlers thought to have moved in 11,000 years ago.
A just completed excavation of Sheriden Cave in Wyandot County, 100 miles southwest of Cleveland, revealed tools made from flaked stone and bone. The items are scheduled to go on display next year at the Cleveland Museum of Natural History.
Kent State University archaeologist Kenneth Tankersley, who led the excavation over the past four years, said definite answers won’t come until someone finds an Ice Age skeleton and the DNA is tested.
Rare Genetic Link to Europe
“Disagreement swirls around the timing of their arrival, the nature of their migration, how fast they moved across the landscape and their relationship to contemporary Native Americans,” he said.
Some scientists think that the earliest colonizers could have started out somewhere in Europe, not in Asia as previously thought. That idea is rooted in a rare genetic link called haplogroup X - DNA passed down through women that dates back more than 30,000 years.
Recent genetic samples from remains in Illinois show that the rare European DNA was around centuries before European exploration. Today, haplogroup X is found in about 20,000 American Indians.
To some researchers, its presence suggests the Mongolian ancestors of most American Indians were latecomers. Genetic tests show the DNA is completely absent from East Asian and Siberian populations.
That could dispel the more than half-century old notion that humans migrated across a land bridge from Siberia at the end of the Ice Age, made stone tools and hunted while moving south.
Archaeologists since 1996 have found genetic indications of several migrations, along with evidence that people came from Polynesia, regions near Japan and even western Europe.
Skeleton Has Scientists Jumpy
“Frankly, it makes me nervous,” Smithsonian Institution anthropologist Stephen Loring said of the idea that the first Americans during the Ice Age were of European ancestry.
“It’s a heretical argument, and some people, unfortunately, will use it to assert the cultural superiority of Europeans. But it’s a good theory that needs to be tested.”
Tankersley and Brian Redmond, head of archaeology at the Cleveland Natural History Museum, have been seeking clues about the first colonizers from the cave, which is hidden 50 feet below cornfields.
“To find human remains of that age, 11,000 years old, is really, really rare, and I don’t think there are any in that cavern. We would have found them,” Redmond said. But he added, “Who knows what may turn up in the future. We’re certain it was a camping area.”
Farmers and landowners fear they could be tied up in litigation by preservationists and Indian tribes if old bones are disturbed.
“We know of places where you could probably find human remains up here,” said Keith Hendricks, a Hancock County sheriff’s deputy whose family owns the sinkhole where the Ice Age relics have been recovered. “But the problem is you’d be opening a Pandora’s box. It’s a sensitive issue.”
• Story originally published by •
ABCNEWS.com - November 27 2000
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 12 2004, 07:53 PM|
| It appears that the government was attempting to cover up the fact that Europeans were in America a long time ago when they purposely covered up the site where the Kennewick man was found.
Corps starts to cover Kennewick Man site
This story was published Tuesday, April 7th, 1998
By Jason Hagey Herald staff writer
The booming percussion of helicopter blades threatened to drown out the sound of Alan Cliff's drum, but he didn't care.
The chopper, which started its work Monday morning in apparent defiance of Congress, was doing what he and other American Indians wanted: dropping loads of rock and dirt over the spot where two hydroplane racing fans discovered Kennewick Man nearly two years ago.
"I feel good," said Cliff, of Benton City, after an hour-long ceremony on the banks of the Columbia River meant to calm the spirit of the 9,200-year-old bones. "This is a good thing."
"You have to shake your head and say, 'What are they doing?' " said Jim Chatters, the Richland scientist who has been in the middle of the controversy over Kennewick Man since he was discovered in July 1996. "Are they doing this out of spite?"
Dutch Meier, a spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers, said the work is being done out of necessity.
Erosion and looting are threatening to destroy the shore near where Kennewick Man was found, Meier said, and any attempt at stopping it must be completed by April 15, the deadline this year for doing any work near the river because of salmon-protection regulations.
It could take until then to complete the job, he said.
Meanwhile, the shore is continuing to erode and April 15 is drawing near, he said. "We made the decision to proceed," Meier said.
Earth Construction of Orofino, Idaho, is doing the work. The company is being paid $160,000 to cover 250 feet of shoreline with rocks, dirt and trees.
Despite bills being passed in the U.S. House and Senate barring the work without a court order, Meier said the corps could not delay. Neither bill has been signed into law, he said, and it isn't clear when that might happen.
Rep. Doc Hastings, R-Wash., said he was "very disappointed" with the decision.
In addition to the legislation passed in Congress, Hastings and U.S. Sen. Slade Gorton, R-Wash., wrote a letter to the Interior Department last week, urging Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt to stop the work.
But Meier said it would take a court order to stop the work.
None of the groups hoping to learn from Kennewick Man, including a group of scientists who are suing for the right to study the bones, had filed for one by Monday.
Michael Clinton, a Portland lawyer for the Asatru Folk Assembly, a California-based religious sect hoping to study Kennewick Man, told The Associated Press he did not plan to seek a court order.
But Clinton said he planned to file a motion next week asking for a federal prosecutor to investigate whether the corps may have broken any laws by proceeding with the shoreline work.
He said he will file the motion with U.S. Magistrate Judge John Jelderks, who is overseeing the civil lawsuit filed by the scientists.
Chatters said the scientists couldn't afford to file a court order to stop the burial in addition to the other court battles.
The corps, with the backing of the federal coffers, doesn't need to worry about money for lawyers, he said.
"We have to pick and choose our fights," he said.
In the end, studying the bones is more important than the site, Chatters said. But without the ability to further study the site where they were found, scientists are severely hampered.
Armand Minthorn, a member of the board of trustees for the Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla, said burying the Kennewick Man site does not rule out the possibility of future study.
But Chatters believes once the site burial is finished, neither he nor any other scientist will ever get the chance to further examine the river shore for clues.
"Now we have to go in and excavate to do that," he said. "And every time we try to do that, the Indians will complain."
None of the Indians who gathered Monday to watch the chopper was complaining.
"This is a preservation of our culture," Minthorn said.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 12 2004, 08:04 PM|
| The Kennewick man also looks like Wes Studi who is a famous Cherokee actor.
I wouldn't mind checking out his DNA.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 12 2004, 08:23 PM|
| Maybe we can push back the occupation of America just a bit farther.
|Posted by: Mark Sep 12 2004, 08:50 PM|
I was going to say that he sure looked a lot like Picard.
Thanks for the information!
|Posted by: Mark Sep 12 2004, 09:06 PM|
| Ahhhh - Forbidden Archaeology - LOVE IT!
Thanks Seralia, I don't recall reading much about Laguna Man before.
Here's some images from Chaco Canyon, New Mexico, USA of structures built by the Anasazi from BJs link.
I wish we had some modern day humans standing next to the doorways and structures to get an idea of how tall these people were.
|Posted by: BJ1 Sep 13 2004, 06:17 AM|
| PuPP, on the site from which you got those pics, I looked in vain for more doorways other than one or two, which seemed to be doorways. Reading the sites' descriptions, the entrances were made in the deep round excavations that led to the main buildings. I wouldn't think it odd that many tunnels exist underneathe the entire cliff dwellings. That is a fascinating cliff dwelling place!
It would appear that the inhabitants were on the very tall side when you consider the size of the windows taken from the air. We might consider the height of the structures that were built with large and heavy stones. It would have taken men of great strength to hoist them up so high and position them. Just a guess.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Sep 14 2004, 08:46 PM|
| This is a good site to see some good views of Chaco Canyon. If you have QuickTime, there are some cool 360 degree panoramas of a few of the sites.
Chaco Canyon Tour
I was looking for this next piece of information for a while and managed to find it quite by accident while looking for information on Anasazi skeletons. I had heard about a fierce tribe that ground their teeth into fangs and ate human flesh. Either the Anisazi were cannibals or the Anisazi were eaten by the cannibals. I saw a documentary concerning the mysterious cannibals and even saw a few of their skulls. They did have some very pointy fangs. I wonder if they were trying to be like the reptile people. Perhaps they were members of the "Sett" clan who had finally caught up to a branch of the bird people.
Week of Sept. 9, 2000; Vol. 158, No. 11 , p. 164
Ancient Site Holds Cannibalism Clues
Excavations of three 850-year-old pit dwellings strewn with butchered human skeletons have yielded evidence of cannibalism in the prehistoric U.S. Southwest, according to a new report. The discoveries include the first example ever of what some scientists regard as a crucial sign of past cannibalism: a fossilized piece of human feces, also known as a coprolite, that contains the chemical residue of human flesh.
During a period of intense warfare throughout the region from A.D. 1150 to 1200, residents of the dwellings fell prey to attackers who killed and ate them, theorizes anthropologist Brian R. Billman of the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill. At least a few hours later, one of the attackers must have defecated in the victims' fireplace, he contends.
"We see that as an act of contempt," he says. "There was probably a brief outbreak of cannibalism that was used as a political or military strategy at prehistoric Anasazi sites."
The new finds come from a site called Cowboy Wash in southwestern Colorado. The report by Billman and his colleagues appears in the Sept. 7 Nature.
Reports of cannibalism at other Anasazi sites dating to between 800 and 1,600 years old have been controversial (SN: 1/2/93, p. 12), and the Cowboy Wash claim is no exception. Critics suspect that Billman's group has mistaken a coyote coprolite for that of a person. Either warfare, reburial rituals, or the organized killing of people deemed to be witches—none of which included cannibalism—might have yielded the other signs of apparent cannibalism reported at Cowboy Wash, they argue.
The new evidence confirms that cannibalism occurred at the Anasazi site, Billman responds. His group recovered the remains of seven people of both sexes and various ages on the floors of two pit houses. The bones exhibit incisions typical of butchery and have polished ends produced by cooking in pots, the researchers say.
Household items and other material in the structures indicate that the homes were suddenly abandoned, they add.
Chemical analyses of pieces of a cooking pot, directed by biochemist Richard A. Marlar of the University of Colorado School of Medicine in Denver, detected the residue of human myoglobin. Occurring solely in muscle, this protein indicates that human tissue was cooked in the pot, the scientists contend.
Further tests failed to find human myoglobin in storage vessels at Cowboy Wash or in cooking pots from several Anasazi sites occupied before A.D. 1150.
The coprolite, found in the ashes of a hearth, is shaped like that of a human, Billman holds. Also, it contains human myoglobin but no signs of canine origin, such as dog hairs or fragments of chewed bones. Surprisingly, no plant remains were detected.
Coprolites previously recovered from a latrine area at another Anasazi site, as well as samples of modern human feces, bore no traces of human myoglobin.
Cowboy Wash consists of nine sites, each with one to three pit houses. All four sites excavated so far contain butchered human skeletons, Billman says. He estimates that at least 35 people were killed and eaten in the same attack.
Severe drought and political upheaval in the region may have temporarily sparked cannibalistic practices, Billman proposes. For about 50 years, such forces overrode a strict Anasazi taboo against cannibalism, he adds.
In a commentary in the same journal, physiologist Jared M. Diamond of the University of California Medical School in Los Angeles calls the new report "compelling evidence" of cannibalism in the prehistoric U.S. Southwest.
Peter Y. Bullock, an archaeologist at the Museum of New Mexico in Santa Fe, disagrees, however. Coyotes are common scavengers in this part of the country and could easily have deposited the Cowboy Wash coprolite, Bullock asserts.
Further Cowboy Wash excavations may yield more data, but neither Billman nor Bullock expects them to resolve the cannibalism debate.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Sep 14 2004, 08:55 PM|
| Dying for dinner?
A debate rages over desert cannibalism
BY RACHEL HARTIGAN
"Holy smokes, I'm looking at a feast." That's what anthropologist Christy Turner thought when he opened a cardboard box of skeletal remains at the Museum of Northern Arizona 30 years ago and found over a thousand broken and burned bones. They looked like butchered and cooked animal remains. But the Arizona State professor knew the bones belonged to humans.
Turner believes the battered bones hold the answer to a puzzle that has long preoccupied archaeologists: Why did the Anasazi start building massive stone pueblos around A.D. 900 at Chaco Canyon in New Mexico–structures that aligned with the sun, the moon, and each other–then abandon them 250 years later?
At first, Turner didn't particularly care who ate whom. His goal was to determine what signature, if any, cannibalism leaves on bones. Comparing butchered animal remains with those he suspected were cannibalized, he devised six criteria for cannibalism, from cuts by sharp defleshing tools to scorch marks from cooking fires. Using this list, he examined bones from 76 sites and concluded that, at 38 sites, 286 people were eaten.
But why? Turner believes he found the answer in central Mexico, where cultures that used cannibalism in religious ceremonies had left similar evidence. "It takes nearly blind faith in the effectiveness of geographical distance ... to believe that this [culture] failed to reach the American Southwest," he writes in his 1999 book, Man Corn. Turner speculates that members of a Mexican warrior cult headed north, where they found that killing and eating a few desert-farming Anasazi terrorized everyone else into paying tribute and building monuments to the Mexicans' religion. Eventually, the culture built on cannibalism collapsed–how, Turner does not know–and the Anasazi deserted Chaco Canyon. Today's Pueblo people are Anasazi descendants.
Food for thought. Man Corn–named after the Aztec word for a sacred meal of human meat–provoked a firestorm. Critics have charged him with everything from shoddy science to racism. He countered with a widely distributed manuscript–rejected by American Antiquity–denouncing them as "professionally reckless," "politically correct," and "rude."
Turner's proposal that ancient Mexicans invaded from the south has aroused the most derision. "The idea of a [Mexican] goon squad is ridiculous," says Kurt Dongoske, an archaeologist for the Hopi tribe. While remnants of trade with Mexico exist–pottery, copper bells, and macaw skeletons–there's little evidence of Mexicans' living in the area at the time. Turner's theory hangs on one skull found with notched teeth, a practice common in Mexico but rare in the Southwest. "Turner stepped beyond his level of expertise," sniffs Steven LeBlanc, director of collections at Harvard's Peabody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology.
Some archaeologists and Indians accuse Turner of recklessly ignoring native beliefs. "One of the worst things you can do in Pueblo society is to eat flesh," says Andrew Darling, an archaeologist with the Gila River Indian Community in Arizona. "That's how you become a witch, and the penalty for witches is death." Suspected Pueblo witches were killed and their corpses ravaged to find the so-called evil heart. Darling believes those actions could leave the same bone signature as cannibalism. He says Turner's theory revives racist stereotypes of savage Indians.
Other archaeologists point out that little is known about how the Anasazi normally treated their dead. Standard burial practices could have caused the skeletal damage ascribed to cannibalism. Ventura Perez, a doctoral student at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, found faint marks around the jaws of some of Turner's skulls. Perez suspects the marks are light because the skulls had been stripped long after the flesh had begun to decompose–suggesting that meat removal was a burial practice.
Peabody's LeBlanc thinks a more likely explanation is that the Chaco Anasazi brutalized a subclass of their own people. Healed bone fractures suggest that many Anasazi were beaten repeatedly. Others were dumped on garbage heaps after they died. And still others may be Turner's cannibal victims, butchered like game animals but not necessarily served for dinner.
Turner has his allies. Tim White, professor of human evolutionary studies at the University of California-Berkeley, compared broken, scarred, and scattered Anasazi and animal bones from Mancos Canyon in Colorado and discovered striking similarities. He dismisses the reburial theory, saying no other society uses the same method to prepare food and bury its dead. Even so, he refuses to speculate about who was behind the cannibalism. "It's too early," he says.
Fossil find. White and Turner thought they could prove that some people had cut up and cooked other people–but not that anyone was chewed and swallowed. Until two years ago, that is. A group of archaeologists working for Soil Systems Inc., an archaeological consulting firm, claims to have found the smoking gun. While excavating Colorado's Cowboy Wash, they unearthed fossilized fecal matter containing human remains, probably left by an attacker to desecrate an Anasazi hearth. Turner's critics say the ancient excrement could have come from anyone or anything, and, even if it is human, it only proves that a single person indulged in a taste for his fellows.
Nonetheless, there's a growing awareness among archaeologists that something awful happened among the Anasazi. Soon after abandoning Chaco, they began building cliff dwellings from which they could stave off almost any attack. But what were they afraid of? Each other?
|Posted by: DarmonVing Sep 14 2004, 09:22 PM|
The Anisazi were actually relatively small in stature BJ. The majority of them were about 5 feet tall.
As for needing great strength to lift heavy stones, it is more of mind over matter and body than the use of physical strength. There are stones in many places that are so large that no men, no matter how how tall they were, could have possibly lifted them by using conventional means even with today's technology.
|Posted by: BJ1 Sep 15 2004, 09:16 AM|
| Thanks, DarmonVing, for posting the size of the Anasazi. It would never have occurred to me that these men who built the cliff dwellings could possibly be only 5' tall! Simply amazing.
Here is an article I posted on Pupp's original post: "There were giants in the land...", which fits into this thread, and may be of interest for those who didn't read it there:
The following comes from Indian lore:
The Yosemite Valley, where the mummy was found has always been considered to be a place of great mystery by the Indians who lived there, the Ahwahneechees. The folklore of the Ahwahneechees relates a story of a giant who came into the valley long before the white man arrived.
The giant's name was Oo-el-en. They were vicious giants for they liked to eat the meat of the Indians. Oo-el-en would catch the adults and carry them away to a hiding place near the foot of Cascade Falls. Oo-el-en would then cut the people into small pieces, hanging their meat in the sun to dry into jerky.
(It's too bad there isn't a date attached to this article. We could know whether it was the white man who finally drove these giants underground, or whether the Indians banded together to fight them.)
|Posted by: BJ1 Sep 15 2004, 10:42 AM|
| While googling for more than theories regarding the Oo-el-en, I stumbled on to this:
MAN (?) and DINOSAURS TOGETHER
One of many human footprints contemporary with dinosaurs taken from the Paluxy River located in Dinosaur Park near Glen Rose, Texas. Pictured with my foot, it exceeds 45 cm (18 inches) in length. The cross-sectional cuts determined through compression studies that it was a woman's footprint. Estimates indicate her stature approximately 305 cm (10 feet) and 454 kg (1,000 lbs).......(Website gone for pic.)
Doctor Hilton Hinderliter of Apollo Campus, Pennsylvania State University studied the evidence presented at the Glen Rose, Texas excavations and stated: "I would have to say that the belief in evolution is in a state of terminal illness but its death will only be admitted by a new generation of scientists whose minds have not been prejudiced by the type of education now prevalent in the nation's public schools, an education which starts with the belief that evolution has happened, which interprets all evidence according to that faith and which simply discards any evidence which cannot be fitted into the evolutionary framework" (Quoted from "Dinosaurs" by Dr. Carl E. Baugh, 1987. Promise Publishing Co., Orange, CA 92667. )
|Posted by: Mark Sep 15 2004, 01:35 PM|
| Darmon Ving, thanks so much for providing the height of the Anasazi. I figured they were of short stature and were at war with the giants.
I watched a show on Discovery Science channel yesterday that was showing Lake Titicaca and Teotihuacan (sp) and the stone walls that they built were impressive and no doubt they were at war with another people.
Though mainstream science still tries to claim that the ancient cities were built in A.D., new studies are coming forward that suggest these cities were built more than 10,000 years ago and are connected to Egypt.
(Remember the egyptian mummies who have been found with cocaine and tobacco in their bodies? Cocaine and tobacco were ONLY grown in the Americas thousands of years ago.)
I believe the offspring of the giants are still with us.... just a little shorter now.
No doubt many of those giants were cannibals, could that tie in with the blood drinkers of today? Satanists/vampires?
Here's some ancient footprints of giants (Sasquatch or human?).
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 17 2004, 08:25 PM|
Here is a site with an interactive image of one of the prints.
It looks more like a bigfoot track than a human print.
More information here about fossilized human prints:
ANCIENT DINOSAUR DEPICTIONS ON STONE
Inca Peru Burial stones.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 17 2004, 08:41 PM|
| Here are some ancient ceramic dinosaurs:
THE DINOSAURS OF ACAMBARO
|Posted by: Mark Sep 17 2004, 10:00 PM|
| I just read the link on
THE DINOSAURS OF ACAMBARO
Fascinating find - thank you!
It sort of reminds me of the Ica Stones of Peru
I don't believe these are hoaxes.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 19 2004, 08:02 PM|
| I don't think those stones are a hoax either PuPP and they are very similar in style to Aborignal artwork in Australia. In fact, to my surprise, the Australian Aboriginies did have knowledge of dinosaurs.
Dinosaurs Hunted by Aboriginals
|Posted by: Mark Sep 20 2004, 09:59 PM|
| Hey Seralia, it sure looks like history books need to be re-written.
I believe this is a photo from U.S. Civil War Era
This was also in my image archives, I cannot recall where it was from.
Japanese fisherman pulled this up and after photos were taken the rotting stinking carcass was thrown overboard.
So-called experts that tow the party line of current history claim it was a basking (sp) shark.
Others say it is a plesiosaurus (sp) or another supposedly extinct animal.
|Posted by: Mark Sep 22 2004, 08:52 PM|
| I just came across this over at GLP.
ALIEN MUMMY FOUND IN BRAZIL?
Wilson Estanovic Neto, curator and owner of "the Wilson Estanovic Museum if Natural History in Uberaba," a city in western Minas Gerais state in Brazil, "said that the museum, circus and theater, originally operated by his ancestor, has covered all the countries in the world. In their travels, they (the Estanovic family) has managed to obtain--through donations--artifacts, ruins and stones of all kinds which fall from space, as well as other startling items."
"A strange piece" has drawn the attention of Planeta Terra, a South American Fortean research group. It is "a rather different mummified skull, similar to an alien-- large-headed, earless, with odd-shaped eyes and mouth. All of these characteristics were highlighted by experts" in extraterrestrial subjects.
"Museum administrators claim to know the provenance of the skeleton, which was discovered only recently when they tried to ´de-mummify´ the piece, which was probably acquired in Egypt. The specimen is on display at the museum only on Sundays and under guard."
"According to the owner, at least ten attempts to steal the item have been made."
"The skull is about twice the size of an adult human skull and is out of proportion in relation to the rest of the body, which measures approximately 50 centimeters (20 inches). The six-toed foot is also mummified."
Uberaba is 210 kilometers (126 miles) west of Belo Horizonte, the state capital of Minas Gerais and 300 kilometers (180 miles) south of Brasilia, the national capital.
Commenting on this case, UFO Roundup correspondent Brunilda Barros said, "I´m not so sure this mummy is from Egypt. Uberaba is only 50 kilometers (30 miles) east of the headwaters of the Rio da Prata. The Kayapo Indians might have acquired this strange mummy from the hidden city of Matalir-Aconcagua in the Planalto (jungles of Mato Grosso do Sul state--J.T.) and then sold it to Senhor Estevanovic´s ancestors." (See Planeta Terra for September 15, 2004. Muito obrigado a Scott Corrales e Andreia Xavier por eso caso.)
(Editor´s Note: Matalir-Aconcagua is a reputed hidden city in Mato Grosso do Sul, still thriving millenia after the demise of the lost continent of Atlantis. Colonel Percy H. Fawcett, his son Jack and Raleigh Rimmell vanished in the Mato Grosso back in 1925 while searching for it.)
Found in Australia
Here's some larger images of the top photo in this post - click to view them.
Full text and more photos can be found at http://planeta.terra.com.br/noticias/mr_ufo/alienuber.htm
It almost looks like two heads melded together, perhaps just a birth defect?
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 23 2004, 09:21 PM|
| Yes our history books really do need to be rewritten PuPP. As we further our explorations of the world, which has not been thoroughly explored, we will find more things that we once thought were extinct. There are still accounts of people seeing winged reptiles and dinosaur-like creatures and a number of prehistoric fish and other marine creatures have also been found lurking in the oceans as they have done for millions of years. And man has been in the Americas for a much longer period of time than anyone can really comprehend. Perhaps 20,000 years or more though I have heard a few stories of Neanderthal related artifacts being found in parts of New England which would push back the date of human occupation even farther if such stories were true.
This is a wonderful story about the first of the over 10,000 year old sites that were discovered not in Alaska but on the east coast of America. In this case, history definitely needs to be rewritten.
Cover Story 10/12/98
The New World may be 20,000 years older than experts thought
BY CHARLES W. PETIT
Late in the afternoon last May 17, a tired archaeological team neared the end of a 14-hour day winching muck to the deck of a Canadian Coast Guard vessel. It was in water 170 feet deep in Juan Perez Sound, half a mile offshore among British Columbia's Queen Charlotte Islands. For four days, team members had fruitlessly sieved undersea mud and gravel. Then, in the slanting light of sunset, a deckhand drew from the goop a triangular blade of dark basalt. Its sharp edge and flaked surface said this was no ordinary rock. Someone long ago sculpted it into a knife or other cutting tool.
When Daryl Fedje, an archaeologist for Canada's national parks system, saw the 4-inch artifact, his jaw dropped in amazement: "I immediately recognized it as made by humans." For years Fedje has led efforts to find prehistoric evidence of human occupation in the misty, fiord-laced archipelago. This stone meant that people lived at a spot directly under the ship well before the end of the Ice Age, at a time when the sea level was far lower than today.
The bit of basalt is just one stone. But from Alaska to near the tip of South America, bits of just such intriguing evidence are emerging that suggest the standard textbook story--that humans first settled the Americas by pouring down from Alaska about 12,000 years ago--is wrong, perhaps very wrong. People may have gotten here thousands to tens of thousands of years sooner, over a longer period of time, by a wider variety of routes, and with a more diverse ancestry. If this proves true, it will force a rethinking of the whole concept of America: a land whose human history may be three times longer than imagined, and one where Columbus would have been just one of the last of many waves of "discoverers."
"The bottom line is that people could have reached here a long, long time ago," says Dennis Stanford, chairman of the anthropology department at the Smithsonian Institution. Stanford is among a growing number of scientists advancing the still heretical belief that the first North Americans did not walk over in one main migration but came much earlier, and by boat. Under fire is the time-honored "Clovis-first" theory, named after a site in New Mexico where big, stone spear points were found in the 1930s (story, Page 60). The artifacts were left by a mammoth-hunting culture that appeared in North America a little more than 11,000 years ago. The Clovis people were real, but the standard textbook lessons about them may well be wrong. It now appears that they were not the first in the New World. "I think we're in a whole new ballgame of discovery about who the first Americans were and when they got here," Stanford says.
That would spell the end of the heroic saga generations of schoolchildren have learned--of a great invasion of big-game hunters showing up on a virgin landscape. The peopling of the Americas is beginning to look more like a continuation of another, even grander, saga: the human occupation of the Old World that started perhaps 100,000 years ago. The peopling of Europe and Asia was an expansion featuring multiple migrations and an ebb and flow of cultures that, it now appears, may have washed into the Americas in a series of waves starting well before Clovis times, perhaps as early as 30,000 years ago.
Scholarly rejection. Despite the primacy of the Clovis-first tale, some scientists never could quite embrace it. Over the years, hundreds of sites have been touted as older than the 11,200-year-old early Clovis sites, including Calico in San Bernardino County, Calif., endorsed in the 1960s by famed African anthropologist Louis Leakey as possibly more than 200,000 years old. But each time, at Calico and elsewhere, parades of outside experts said the "tools" were natural stones, or the dates were wrong, or supposedly human bones weren't human, or the charcoal was from a naturally caused wildfire, not a man-made hearth, or all that and more. The sites "have gotten their 15 minutes of fame, then disappeared into obscurity," said James Adovasio, professor of archaeology at Mercyhurst College in Erie, Pa.
Adovasio has his own tale of scholarly rejection. Since 1973 he has led excavation of the Meadowcroft Rockshelter, a 43-foot-high jutting cliff that provides protection from rain along its base. It looks out on Cross Creek, in rugged country 30 miles southwest of Pittsburgh. The landowner, Albert Miller, whose family has had the property since 1795 and operates a colonial-era museum there, called archaeologists in the early 1970s to investigate his hunch about Indian traces under the overhang. Miller's instincts were right. "Everybody and his brother stopped here," marvels Adovasio. Using razor blades to peel layers away, his crews have uncovered a rich trove of relics--20,000 stone tools, woven goods, nearly a million animal bones, and 300 fireplaces loaded with charcoal, making it easy for scientists to calculate dates. (Scientists estimate the age of charcoal and other organic material by measuring how much radioactive carbon-14 it contains. Living things absorb this isotope from the atmosphere; when they die, the radiocarbon begins to decay away. Although new studies suggest that solar variations throw the scale off slightly--11,000 radiocarbon years may be closer to 13,000 actual years, for instance--radiocarbon dating is still the gold standard for archaeological dating.) The cave was on a highway for traders, hunters, and migrants moving to and from the Ohio River Valley to the West. "If you were out camping and saw this place, this is where you'd stop, too," Adovasio says. Every accepted cultural period in Indian history and prehistory is represented: the contemporary Iroquoian Seneca; earlier and closely related "woodland" societies that reach back 1,000 years; the so-called archaic groups to around 8,500 years ago; and Paleo-Indians, including the Clovis big-game hunters, to about 11,000 years ago.
Trouble came when Adovasio began saying in the late 1970s that charcoal from human-made fire pits deep in the excavated floor of the shelter carried dates going back more than 14,000 years, with some indications approaching 17,000 years. He ran into what he calls the "Clovis curtain" of resistance. Critics told him the charcoal that he presumed came from wood may actually have been contaminated by ancient coal or carbon in the local sediments, which would carbon-date much earlier. Adovasio retorts that what he calls the "Clovis mafia" peculiarly rejects only dates at his site that are older than Clovis but not younger material. Contamination would skew ages for everything, he points out, not just for the finds that run counter to standard theory.
Accumulating evidence. But after years of being almost alone as a challenger of Clovis, Adovasio suddenly has company. Similar deposits are being reported by archaeologists at sites throughout the Americas, including one called Cactus Hill, in coastal Virginia. That project's leader, Joseph McAvoy of the privately supported Nottaway River Survey in Sandston, Va., can't discuss his newest findings because he's under a gag order from the National Geographic Society, which is helping pay for the excavation. But in a 1996 report, McAvoy described his discovery of possible pre-Clovis tools that Adovasio says look a lot like his at Meadowcroft.
Evidence also has shown up in Wisconsin. For 10 years, David Overstreet, director of the Great Lakes Archaeological Research Center in Milwaukee, has excavated two mammoth butchery sites that he says are at least 12,500 years old, and where stone tools lie among giant bones and long, curved ivory tusks. Nearby are bones of two more of the extinct elephants, 1,000 years older, bearing what appear to be the distinctive cut marks made by people chopping out meat for food. The roughly shaped tools look nothing like the precisely grooved Clovis points. Overstreet figures that by the time any corridor through the glaciers opened, somebody had already been living for a few millenniums along the ice front, hunting the megafauna of the plains south of it.
But the big break that persuaded many to rethink the conventional theory has come thousands of miles from Clovis in Monte Verde, Chile. There, archaeologist Tom Dillehay of the University of Kentucky has, for 20 years, been excavating wood, bone, and stone tools from rolling pasture land. Last year he was joined by a blue-ribbon group of archaeologists, including many who were skeptical of Dillehay's long-controversial assertions that the artifacts probably are at least 12,500 years old. The expert panel viewed the site and wound up agreeing with Dillehay: The tools bore no resemblance to those of the vanished Clovis culture. Dillehay and his Chilean colleagues now are planning more excavation to explore hints that people were at the site as many as 30,000 years ago.
Some scientists say one needs only to study modern Indians to conclude that their ancestors got here before Clovis time. One hint is in genetic material passed down only from mothers to offspring, called mitochondrial DNA. Such genes carry a molecular clock--if a single population splits into isolated groups, the buildup of random, but distinct, mutations allows geneticists to estimate how long the original groupings have been separated. "For the last five years, the genetic evidence has been saying early, early entry" into the Americas, says Theodore Schurr, a geneticist at Emory University in Atlanta. When Schurr counts the mutations accumulated among American Indians, the molecular data are consistent with departures from Asia between 15,000 and 30,000 years ago. The analysis revealed three distinct families of mutations common among American Indians and found elsewhere only in Siberia or Mongolia. Strangely, about 3 percent of Native Americans also have a genetic trait that occurs elsewhere only in a few places in Europe. This could mean either that some Asian populations migrated both west, into Europe, and east to the Americas, or that Ice Age Europeans may have trickled into the New World many thousands of years ago, perhaps by skirting the Arctic ice pack over the North Atlantic.
Linguists offer a remarkably parallel analysis. Johanna Nichols, a professor in the Slavic languages department of the University of California--Berkeley, counts 143 Native American language stocks from Alaska to the tip of South America that are completely unintelligible to one another, as different as Gaelic, Chinese, or Persian are from one another. The richest diversity of languages is along North America's Pacific coast, not along the Clovis group's supposed inland immigration route. California alone has dozens of dissimilar languages.
It takes about 6,000 years for two languages to split from a common ancestral tongue and lose all resemblance to each other, Nichols says. Allowing for how fast peoples tend to subdivide and migrate, she calculates that 60,000 years are needed for 140 languages to emerge from a single founding group. Even assuming multiple migrations of people using different languages, she figures that people first showed up in the Americas at least 35,000 years ago. If archaeologists haven't found proof of such ancient events, well, "as a linguist, that's not my problem," Nichols shrugs. Clovis-first, she says, is "not remotely possible."
The glacier highway. Even some geologists are taking a punch at Clovis primacy. "Recent work shows that the corridor [through the glaciers] was not open until 11,500 years ago," says Carole Mandryk, a geologist at Harvard University. "That is a pretty major problem for ideas that it was a highway for colonization within a few centuries." Mandryk's studies indicate the corridor would have been nearly impassable for a century or more, with little game or edible vegetation, and vast, boggy wetlands. "The corridor is 2,000 miles long," Mandryk says. "Let's say you are two young guys, and you carry as much food as you can, and you walk as fast as you can. It still takes you six months to get through. And then you run around and kill a lot of animals. Then you have to go back and tell everybody else to get their families and come on down." She blames the persistence of the Clovis-first theory on these "macho gringo guys" who "just want to believe the first Americans were these big, tough, fur-covered, mammoth-hunting people, not some fishermen over on the coast."
Just this summer, one longtime Clovis-firster abandoned the idea. For years, Albert Goodyear, associate director for research at the South Carolina Institute of Archaeology, has calmly supported Clovis. Monte Verde shook him just a bit. So in July, along the Savannah River at a site called Topper, he decided, just to be responsible, to keep digging below sediments dated to the Clovis era. All of a sudden, "we found a tool, and then another." For a solid yard down, scores of blades, flakes, and other human-crafted artifacts turned up. Goodyear told students and volunteers, yes, those sure look older than Clovis. "I had a paradigm crash right there in the woods. I felt like Woody Allen, like I had to turn and say to the audience, 'Why am I saying these things I'm not supposed to believe?' Just five years ago, nothing new was possible in American prehistory, because of dogma. Now everything is possible; the veil has been lifted."
Finds such as Goodyear's are cause for celebration among long-suffering Clovis doubters. "The Clovis-first model is dead," proclaims, with some overstatement, Robson Bonnichsen, director of the Center for the Study of the First Americans at Oregon State University. He has made the center a clearinghouse for information about alternatives to Clovis-first. "I've felt there were people here more than 12,000 years ago from the start," he says. "We're finally getting the evidence to back that up."
But not all Clovis-firsters are throwing in the towel. "I find Monte Verde quite unconvincing," says Frederick Hadleigh West, director of archaeology at the Peabody Essex Museum in Salem, Mass., and editor of a recent 576-page compendium on the archaeology of Alaska and eastern Siberia. "There is really no credible, undisputable evidence of anything prior to Clovis. But with Clovis you have an undeniable outburst of people, appearing on an empty continent, spreading like mad. There is absolutely no [incontrovertible] evidence of people coming into the New World before 12,000 [years ago], or 15,000 if you keep them in Alaska." For Monte Verde to unseat Clovis-first, he said, "would be like Sudan conquering the United States."
Not enough stuff. Another longtime Clovis-first adherent, geoarchaeologist Vance Haynes of the University of Arizona, was among the experts who last year endorsed the 12,500-year-old Monte Verde finds as legitimate. But he argues there isn't enough evidence to support the Meadowcroft and Cactus Hill material. And even if he can't rule out Monte Verde, Haynes says it should take more than one site--scientific fallibility being what it is--to refute the primacy of Clovis. "It has just six artifacts [stone tools]. If it is as old as it looks, and the dates do look solid, then there should be others like it. Until we find those, there are still questions."
Those questions are profound. The Clovis people were real, but where did they come from? No tools in Alaska or Asia seem to foreshadow their distinctive fluted spear points. And how and when did people get to South America? Many authorities believe it would have taken people 7,000 years to have reached southern Chile from Alaska. Others say it could have been faster by boat. But the fact remains that while Clovis traces are abundant, evidence of older cultures is terribly hard to find. "Where are they?" asks David Meltzer, an archaeologist at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, who thinks the Monte Verde dates are accurate but remains puzzled. "I don't know. That is the exciting part about all this."
No single, simple theory has yet emerged to replace Clovis-first. But some of the stories that are emerging in attempts to answer those questions are as arresting as the original Bering land bridge and inland invasion saga. For one, there's the mystery of the people who chipped that basalt point Daryl Fedje's team found this spring off Canada's Pacific shore.
The recovery of the tool was no random plunk with a bucket into the sea floor. Fedje and marine geologist Heiner Josenhans of the Geological Survey of Canada spent four years mapping the sea floor around the Queen Charlotte Islands. An array of sonar receivers revealed it as though it were viewed from a low-flying plane without any distortion from water; computer software let the researchers soar and loop low at will, as in a video game, among now-submerged valleys and hills. Fedje knew that if people were here more than about 10,000 years ago, they lived on that farther shore, near salmon, seals, shellfish, and other key food sources. Tribal lore of the present-day Haida nation includes tales of times when the islands were far larger and surrounded by grassy plains, and of subsequent, fast-rising oceans when a supernatural "flood tide woman" forced the Haida to move their villages to higher ground. Geologists agree with the traditional Haida view of their past: The islands were twice as large 11,000 years ago, and the Pacific rose more than an inch per year for a millennium after that, as the glaciers melted. The Haida have been on the islands, which they call Haida Gwaii, a very long time. Whether it was their ancestors who left the stone point is unknown. Fedje and Josenhans are now poring over the maps of the vanished landscape, hoping to return in the next year or so, if they get the funding, with remotely controlled submarines to prowl the places some of the earliest Americans may have called home.
But the origins of these coastal people remain a mystery. It seems unlikely that Clovis hunters could have scampered west along the ice sheet's southern edge, transformed themselves into a seagoing, salmon-catching, seal-spearing culture, and occupied Haida Gwaii within a few centuries of arrival. Hence the favorite hypothesis, first proposed more than 20 years ago but now supported by the Smithsonian's Stanford, Harvard's Mandryk, Fedje, and many others, is that many people migrated to the New World along the coast instead of overland. Travel may have been in small boats, perhaps covered in skin like traditional Eskimo and Aleut kayaks. If, as seems likely, people migrated during the height of the last Ice Age, between about 25,000 and 12,000 years ago, they would have avoided glaciers calving into the sea. "There was boat use in Japan 20,000 years ago," says Jon Erlandson, a University of Oregon anthropologist. "The Kurile Islands [north of Japan] are like steppingstones to Beringia," the then continuous land bridging the Bering Strait. Migrants, he said, could have then skirted the tidewater glaciers in Canada right on down the coast.
Evidence of other maritime cultures along the West Coast is coming in fast. Erlandson has uncovered remains of seagoing peoples who lived more than 10,000 years ago in the Channel Islands off Southern California. And last month, other scientists reported that two sites in Peru reveal people were living along its coast, subsisting almost entirely on seafood, nearly 11,000 years ago, too long ago for the Clovis migration to have gotten there and spawned a maritime way of life.
The Americas are big continents. Perhaps the earliest people just weren't very numerous and left little mark of their passing. Or, maybe most of them lived out on the then exposed continental shelf, retreating inland only when the end of the Ice Age raised the sea. Perhaps these people, driven inland, gave rise to the Clovis hunters. Well below the waves and under millenniums' worth of cold sediment, may lie the footprints, remains of meals, and discarded tools and campfire pits of a lost world. It is, indeed, a whole new ballgame in the search for the first Americans.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 23 2004, 10:16 PM|
| I did a little google search to see if I could find any information about alien mummies and yes some unusual mummies were discovered but nothing like those Australian or Brazilian mummies.
This is another unusual egyptian mummy.
And this one is supposed to be Tutmosis III. He also had a big head.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 24 2004, 07:14 PM|
| The mummies with the unusual heads are from the 18th dynasty, 1352-1336 B.C., as far as I can tell. I'm not exactly positive, but I believe that one of them was positively identified as Nefertiti. She apparently wore the head piece to hide her unusually shaped skull.
One of the Martian images supposedly shows an image of a woman wearing a similar head piece that some people say is Nefertiti but I doubt that it is since Mars was supposedly rendered incapable of supporting life over a million years ago and Nefertiti had lived around 1300 BC. Of course I really don't trust NASA in telling us anything about what they've found out about Mars so there could have quite possibly been life there more recently and life that still might be there if it is true that they have detected methane gas.
They also claim that this image shows an alien grey so apparently aliens were a lot more visible in ancient times than they are now.
|Posted by: Mark Sep 24 2004, 07:39 PM|
| Hey Seralia, in my opening post of this thread I have an image of a bust from Cairo, not sure if it's Nefertiti (sp) or not but she sure did have an elongated skull.
In regards to your last image, it's not an alien, I recall it's a blurry image of a vase.
I may have a better/clearer image in my archives, I have to check.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 24 2004, 07:58 PM|
| Akhenaten was the ruler in the 18th dynasty and this is his skull. It does seem to show some elongation of the cranial cavity but not as much as his daughters had.
These are two of his daughters BTW.
These figurines are from the 5th millenium BC and have elonged heads and oddly shaped eyes similar to the mummy of Tutankhamen's daughter.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 24 2004, 08:08 PM|
I think I did hear something about the alien looking image being a vase PuPP but some of the other egyptian artwork does appear to show representations of aliens so it could be a vase in the shape of an alien head. If Zahi Hawass can show me a vase even remotely similar to that then I'll call it a vase.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 24 2004, 08:12 PM|
| OK it's officially a vase.
|Posted by: Mark Sep 24 2004, 08:51 PM|
| Wow, more skull images! I'm saving them all. Thank You!
Yes Seralia, that's the CLEARER vase image I was referring to, I checked my file archives but I didn't save it cause it wasn't important to me at the time.
Remember the old TOP hats in early America?
I often wondered if there was a reason for such a high hat, and that maybe someone was trying to hide their elongated skull while in public.
They may be the good guys, but I really don't have any evidence except for how the natives worshipped them and emulated their skulls via head binding.
I think our biggest threat is those we watch on tv who spew lies and deceptions and entertain us while they rape the earth and turn it into a toxic waste dump.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 24 2004, 09:25 PM|
| I never thought about the fashion trend of the wearing of top hats in the 1800's as being used to hide the elongated heads but it seems to me that it was often the rich people who had worn them, with some of them being of royal blood. Of course interbreeding with normal humans would have most likely made the size of their skulls smaller. As to when they first appeared, it's difficult to tell but their sudden appearance in Egypt during the 18th dynasty is interesting. Of course they could have arrived much earlier but tracking down mummies or even skeletons from the earlier dynasties is quite difficult. A lot of mummies were destroyed over the last few hundred years so it is difficult to tell how much of the population of Egypt had the larger skulls.
It seems that Akhenaten and his wife Nefertiti just showed up in Egypt and took it over. They had six daughters but I don't have very much information on them but they all had elongated skulls like their parents.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 24 2004, 09:33 PM|
| It seems that one of their daughters married Tutankhamen.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 24 2004, 10:50 PM|
| Oh I forgot about this one. Ankhesenamun was Tutankhamen's sister.
Would you believe that Ankhesenamun was Tutankhamun's half sister and Nefertiti was not Tutankhamun's mother. Tutankhamun's mother was a woman named Kiya.
Smenkhare was her brother too.
Unfortunately I really haven't been able to find any statues of her but I did manage to find an image of another one of Akhenaten's daughters.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 24 2004, 11:22 PM|
I just edited that post because I forgot to include two of the images.
I got a little bit distracted by something else. I tried to google up an image of Ankhesenamun but it seems that statures of her were either disfigured or destroyed completely and the panel images show her with a full head of rather thick looking hair.
Ouch. That alien disguised as a woman from that movie Mars attacks just popped into my mind for some reason. Time for me to go to bed now.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Sep 26 2004, 05:10 PM|
I had a very unusual dream about a girl with green skin and red hair a little over a week ago and would you believe that her name was Kiya? -
Well anyway... I remembered hearing that Tut had some sort of skull deformity which supposedly made it difficult for him to sleep as well as a series of other health problems. I never thought too much of it at the time but now that I see these new images of the skulls that I should have been paying more attention.
Here is an X-ray of Tut's skull and it does appear that his head wasn't normal.
Besides taking an x-ray of his skull, they also decided to do a reconstruction of his face. See the lizard?
The King Tut Investigation
There was a lot of controversy about how he had died as well as to what happened to his wife. There was also some controversy as to who his parents were.
Yeah that's right Seralia. Smenkhare was her brother and it seems that both he and Akhenaten died before Tut became king.
You might not find too many images of her either for one good reason.
As far as I know, this is one of the few images that I've been able to find of her and the most important piece of evidence is unfortunately missing.
Sorry to drop this and run but I'm on my friend's computer and he needs it back now. I should be back on my own computer in a few weeks but I'll check in between now and then.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 26 2004, 08:17 PM|
| Glad you could drop in DV. Judging by that dream you had, I guess I should see if I can dig up anything on Kiya. Thanks for adding those images of Tutankhamun and Ankhesenamun. I had seen a documentary about his mysterious death and do remember something about his skull being deformed and that he had problems with his neck because of two or more fused vertebrae due to a condition known as Klippel-Feil Syndrome.
I found an image of Kiya and she did have the same elongated skull.
[EDITED by PuPP: Tripod does not allow remote linking so the image does not show up.]
Oh this is interesting. Kiya might be the key here.
She may have been a foreign princess.
Here is another image of her.
She's a real mystery woman alright but I doubt that she had green skin and red hair.
And the mystery deepens.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 26 2004, 09:41 PM|
| I finally found a sculpture of Ankhesenamun. Too bad it's only a front view because I can almost guarantee that she has some type of skull deformity.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 27 2004, 10:01 PM|
| I widened my search parameters just a bit and found more elongated skulls.
This is another Egyptian example.
The image came from this site which shows similarities in the Old and New worlds between the cultures.
OLD & NEW WORLD PARALLELS
Here are two more elongated skull images.
Now for something really interesting.
From a lecture by Andrew Collins for the 15th Questing Conference at Conway Hall, red Lion Square, London WC1, on Saturday, 3 November 2001:
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 27 2004, 10:31 PM|
| I found a few more actual skulls. This one had some surgery.
This image shows a good partial view of the back of the skull. This skull is solid with no evidence of artificial manipulation.
Just as I had suspected. This skull is elongated too.
The profile of the skull can be seen in the below image and the skull itself is nearly identical to what I would expect the skulls of both Kiya and Ankhesenamun to have looked like.
The coloration of the bone is what I find to be most interesting about the above skull. It appears to be newer than the others and I almost suspect that since Ankhesenamun disappeared mysteriously, she may not have died in Egypt but fled somewhere else. These skulls were found in Peru and there is a considerable amount of evidence that the Egyptians had reached Peru some time ago and perhaps some members of the royal family decided that it would be safer for them there.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 27 2004, 11:07 PM|
| They certainly were some unusually proportioned people.
Akhenaten also had an unusual shape to him.
|Posted by: BJ1 Sep 28 2004, 05:41 AM|
| Seralia, I am never disappointed at the amount of research you present here! You are amazing, in case I haven't mentioned that before.
Here are a couple of sentences snipped from one of your latest posts:
"However, the conventional view would be that they (skulls) were artificially deformed in early childhood, using boards and wrappings. At such an early age the skull is still malleable and can be shaped in accordance with either religious or sectarian beliefs." and
"Adriano is certain, however, that these skulls are not artificially deformed, a fact confirmed by the Maltese archaeologists who have examined them."
My mother, a small lady, was in such long, hard labor when my brother was born that both of them barely survived. My brother was a large baby and, as a result, his head was pointed at birth. My mother was devastated, thinking she had labored so long to give birth to an imbecile. The attending doctor told her she could round out the head with gentle pressure. It worked.
I am thinking that there may have been a trend among ancient royalty to leave the head as was in order to differentiate their "class" or heritage as "gods", as being separate from that of normal human beings. They may have even manipulated the skull in order to make it even more elongated than it was.
When you consider the size of the infant skulls, no normal human could have given birth to such babies without probably giving up their own lives or by caesarean (surgical - C-section) removal. Hmmmm. "Caesarean'. Wonder where THAT term came from!
|Posted by: Mark Sep 28 2004, 01:27 PM|
I second that!
And Darmon Ving too has added a wealth of knowledge.
Seralia, WOW, I had never seen so many statues and busts of the elongated skulls.
IMHO, those elongated skulls could NEVER be shaped into a NORMAL human sized skull.
The size is much too large. Imagine the brain capacity of those peoples. WOW!
Though I do believe that many natives tried to emulate their gods by shaping their skulls from birth, and that practice was still carried on thru the 20th century in Africa.
It really does tie in So America to Egypt, though the book keepers would like you to believe there was no connection in ancient times.
I recall the evidence of cocaine and tobacco that was found in Egyptian mummies and back then cocaine and tobacco were ONLY FOUND in the Americas.
Also, to save you research time, please check my original post of this thread for more conehead and elongated skulls.
Seralia, thanks again for your awesome research!
|Posted by: BJ1 Sep 28 2004, 03:57 PM|
| Ah, PuPP, yes! How could I have left out DarmonVing! He has contributed so much to these threads! Oh, gee, who else did I leave out. Blank mind here.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 29 2004, 01:53 PM|
Thanx for the kind words BJ and PuPP.
As PuPP mentioned, the brain capacity is much larger than that of a normal human skull and the only type of humanoid known to have a larger brain capacity, were the Neanderthals but they were only a few hundred ccm's larger than the normal human skull. These skulls are more along the range of at least twice the brain capacity of a normal human and not consistent with the process of binding the skull.
The heads of these natives were bound.
A bound skull is still going to have the same capacity as a normal skull and will not grow to twice the capacity. And also there will definitely be a permanent soft part at the top of the skull if the skull is bound because binding of the skull prevents the plates from growing together normally. As far as I can tell by these images, the skulls look perfectly healed with no apparent weak spots or deformation of the plates. The portion of the skull where the skull would be the weakest is along the coronal suture. The coronal suture can be clearly seen in the last two skull images that I posted and shows no signs of weakness.
I hate to get technical but -- the frontal bone of a skull of a skull bound person would clearly be deformed and the frontal bones in the abnormal skulls do not show any degree of deformation. The parietal, occipital and temporal bones are much larger than that of a normal skull as seen in the Egyptian skulls and the depictians of their heads. The skull from the frontal bone to the occipital bone is much longer than that of a normal person.
Wait a minute. I just rechecked the last two images and the temporal bone is normal. The bone that is longer is the parietal bone. One thing that I did notice is that on a normal human skull, the temporal bone and the occipital bone are connected together by the lambdoid suture. The skull depicted in the last two images does not show evidence of a lambdoid suture.
You'll see what I mean if you compare the diagram of the skull on this site with the two images of the skull that I posted.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 29 2004, 02:23 PM|
| This is an image of the top of a normal human skull.
1. Occipital Bone
2. Lambdoidal Suture
3. Parietal Bone
4. Sagittal Suture
5. Coronal Suture
6. Frontal Bone
The left and right parietal bones in the elongated skull bulge out to the sides and as I mentioned before, the Lambdoid or Lambdoidal suture is missing. This is very unusal. If the deformity was caused by the binding of the skull, the point where the coronal suture meets the Sagital suture would have not gone together normally. In the elongated skull, the sutures appear to be normal.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 29 2004, 02:37 PM|
| This is a normal fetal skull that show the plates before the sutures form.
1. Future Coronal Suture
2. Anterior Fontanel
3. Anterolateral Fontanel
4. Future Squamosal Suture
5. Posterolateral Fontanel
6. Future Lamdoidal Suture
7. External Acoustic Meatus
8. Future Sagittal Suture
9. Posterior Fontanel
What head-binding does is basically puts pressure on the future coronal suture and the future Lamdoidal suture narrowing the gap between the left and right parietal bones and the frontal bone and also narrowing the gap between the parietal bones and the occipital bone.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 29 2004, 08:18 PM|
| There are skull deformities similar to that of head-binding but they are rare. The deformity pictured below is what is commonly known as aposterior skull deformity which is partially due to the suppine positioning of the infant to prevent SIDS.
As you can see in the below image, there was pressure on the Occipital bone which compressed the Lambdoidal suture causing a clearly visible deformation of the suture fusing the Occipital bone to the Perietal lobes prematurely.
As I mentioned before, there is no visible Lambdoidal suture on the one elongated skull which is really quite puzzling to me.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 29 2004, 08:38 PM|
| This basicly explains the types of skull deformities found in infants and none of these deformities could even come close to explaining the size and shape of the elongated skulls.
Abnormal Skull Shape
Craniosynostosis ( fusion of the skull bones)
|Posted by: Mark Sep 29 2004, 11:12 PM|
| Seralia, it appears that you are debunking the claim that the elongated skulls are ALL a result of head binding.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 30 2004, 08:08 PM|
I do seem to be debunking the claims that these elongated skulls are the result of the binding of the infants head. I can understand some minor deformation of the skull that was the result of artifical means but not to the extent as seen in these skulls.
Going back to the Anisazi people for a moment; there is evidence that they were one of the tribes that practiced skull binding but none of their skulls attained the size and shape of the elongated skulls.
32 This overview shows the deformation of Anasazi skulls.
Here is a little more information about Pediatric Cranial Synostosis that I found interesting BTW.
The above statement basically means that the size and shape of the skull is determined by the size of the brain and that if the growth of the skull is restricted in one way it will somehow manage to grow only enough to accommodate the brain of the infant in another way. In the case of the infant with the posterior skull deformity, (see first image in my Sep 29 2004, 08:18 PM post) since the skull could not expand from front to back, it began to expand from top to bottom as can be seen in the image. The same type of deformity can also be seen in the diagram of the deformed Anisazi skull.
Since the capacity of the elongated skulls is very close to twice that of a normal human skull then the brain itself would then be twice the size of a normal human brain. There is just no way that a bound skull of a normal human child could be made to grow to nearly twice its normal size. The capacity of these elongated skulls is from over 2000 cc's to over 3000 cc's and the brain capacity of a normal adult human skull is only 1500 cc's.
|Posted by: Seralia Sep 30 2004, 08:18 PM|
| These people seemed to have gotten around quite a bit.
OLMEC CIVILIZATION: 1200 BC- 600 AD
|Posted by: Mark Sep 30 2004, 09:57 PM|
| Hi Seralia,
Weird, I was just thinking about the Olmec heads earlier today and was going to add them to this thread.
Were africans in the Americas?
Sure Looks like Negroid features to me!
I believe that is Zecharia Sitchin in the photos below and the images came from
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 1 2004, 02:03 PM|
Yes I noticed that there was a controversy as to whether the Olmecs had African features. There were indeed accounts of one or more dark skinned native American tribes being in the America's prior to the arrival of the Spanish that were thought to be the remnants of an African sea-faring culture so anything is possible.
There is one thing that I noticed and that was an Egyptian artifact which depicts a being with an elongated Olmec-type skull.
I am beginning to suspect now that whatever these beings were that they interbred with the Egyptians and other cultures creating a hybrid race that had basically the same brain capacity of this unknown race.
This is a description of one of the elongated skulls:
Now I am beginning to think that the differences between the Egyptian skulls and that of the Olmecs may be due to some minor manipulation of the Parietal lobes and that the Egyptians, in order to look more normal may have done something to cause their elongated skulls to grow from front to back instead of from top to bottom like the Olmecs.
I had an interesting conversation about the shape of the Olmec skulls an what may have caused them to become elongated with a a friend of mine and after I told him about the brain capacity of the individual he came up with this interesting observation. He basically told me that for an infant with what would be considered to be a larger than normal skull, given the estimated brain capacity, that the skull would most likely be deformed by natural child birth and that the skull would take on a watermellon shape.
Now BJ said something interesting.
If one of these beings with an elongated skull tried to interbreed with a normal human female, there could be some serious complications since judging by the dimensions of the bodies of the females with elongated skulls, their hips seem to be wider than that of a normal human female.
Now if one of these hybrid children were delivered via C-section than the shape of the skull would be entirely different and would be more pear shaped than watermellon shaped. One key as to what one of these children would look like is the mummified fetus of one of Tutankhamun's daughters which was thought to have been born prematurely.
I researched the image and it is authentic.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 1 2004, 03:47 PM|
The image below that text reminds me of Summerian scupltures and it also has what we'd call ET features... especially the eyes.
Seralia, I agree that it sure does appear that there was an interbreeding program.
But I believe there is STILL an interbreeding program taking place on earth today.
In regards to c section and big heads....
My gf's mom is japanese, her father german. And I recall a comment that she didn't want his children because of their big heads. He is highly intelligent with an analytical mind. He scoffs at me for believing in UFOs or that Iraq war was unjustified. He says war is good, it cuts down on the population.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 1 2004, 05:14 PM|
I agree with you that the interbreeding program is going on but in a more covert manner. I remember something called missing fetus syndrome in which a fetus would be developing normally in the womb up until a certain period of time and then vanish without a trace.
Definition of Missing Embryo/Fetus Syndrome
What seems to be happening is that the babies are taken from the mother and grown in artificial wombs which would allow the skull to expand normally and I do remember hearing reports from abductees stating that they have seen children with features very similar to Tutankhamun's daughter that had normal colored skin.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 1 2004, 07:51 PM|
| Seralia, I've also read many reports of women claiming to have had their unborn babies removed from them, some carrying them to near term, but of course, most dismiss these as tall tales and as something that could never be happening.
Also, if we were to discuss the many topics we have here in the forum in person in the outside world, most people would scoff and ridicule us while never trying to understand it.
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 1 2004, 08:28 PM|
| It strikes me as a peculiarity that not one picture of the stone/marble carvings of these elongated heads is depicted with hair! No hair? I find that very odd.
Thanks, Seralia and PuPP, for keeping this interesting thread alive. You will probably run out of search results before long, as you have covered a lot of territory. Not many eyes have feasted on what you have dug up.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 1 2004, 08:55 PM|
| I did find it a little peculiar that most of the depictions of these people lacked hair but I'm sure that I'll find some more references to them now that I fixed a minor spyware infestation that was messing with my google.
BTW, I found these pictures of a 3 pound 8 oz clear quartz Himalayan Skull that is said to be 12,500 years old.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 1 2004, 09:35 PM|
| Seralia and BJ, it is my belief that the ancient gods (Not greek or roman gods) and the creators of many of those you see among us today, were hairless.
We have hair because we are part primate. We did not evolve, we were genetically tampered with.
I know it goes against religion and I don't wish to impose my beliefs, but I have pondered over this subject for a loooong time.
As I said before, there is an interbreeding program still taking place as well as a program of genetically manipulating current humans. Possibly upgrading us, or even downgrading for an easier to control slave race.
Remember, these are merely theories of mine and nothing is etched in stone - YET.
Seralia, thanks for the quartz images, I saved them and will back up to CD soon with all of the other excellant images you have posted.
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 1 2004, 10:00 PM|
| Interesting take on the hair bit, PuPP. Your logic is going to get the best of you!
Tell you what, your primate thing got to me. Of course you know that I don't believe that, but your opinion is just fine. I got to thinking about angel pictures. Have you ever seen a bald one? These are higher forms of life, not descended from primates. Just think about it.
You've heard of hairless cats? Ugly, but have been genetically manipulated. So are we talking upgrading or downgrading with these genetic mutations?
When you think about it, some lower forms of life don't have any hair...earthworms come to mind, snakes, crustaceans, etc.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 1 2004, 10:25 PM|
| Heh BJ, I knew I'd get ya.
Ok, here we go... and please don't get angry with me
What year are most angel images from?
Can you show me a 2000 or 3000 year old image of an angel.
I believe everything we've been taught is a lie, our belief systems, our religions etc.
I don't want you to change your beliefs, just help me try and understand what we are learning here.
You may be right, I may be wrong, but what really matters is that we care about one another.
|Posted by: Wahya Oct 2 2004, 02:38 AM|
| In history it has not been uncommon for priests to shave their heads.
Even the roman catholic monks.
The egyptian priesthood shaved all the hair from their bodies and look at buddhists monks and some of the indian sects like hare krishna.
As for hairless lower animals - dont forget the lower animals that DO have hair like bees, spiders, and it has been discovered that a gecko's clinging power comes from microscopic hairs on their feet.
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 2 2004, 08:16 AM|
| "Heh BJ, I knew I'd get ya." And I knew you knew it!
"Ok, here we go... and please don't get angry with me "
How could I get angry with you? Frustrated, maybe, but never angry.
"Can you show me a 2000 or 3000 year old image of an angel." Can't do the impossible. I will offer that if you believe angels exist (I do because of the many eyewitness accounts), then you must know that they don't mutate into some other form of life, as they are spirit. Paintings of angels, dating back to the 14th and 15th centuries, show hair on their heads. I know that isn't far enough back for you. I have a book, deeply researched about angels...good and evil. There are Sumerian pictures of angels that were done in bas relief, c. 2000 B.C.
I will look through the book, try to find these ancient works by googling, then report back.
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 2 2004, 08:43 AM|
| Wahya, I was thinking about little furry/hairy insects, etc., like bees, caterpillars, spiders and the like when I mentioned hairless "animals", and should have included them for comparison.
It would appear that there are many more insects that are hairless. Bugs, snails, tomato worms, and more. We could go up the line and include fish, turtles, alligators/crocs...there must be more, but you get the idea.
It is true that some men in religious orders have shaved their heads, but they were born with hair. I don't know if the ancient people, whose heads were elongated, were born with hair, but from the pictures of infants posted by Seralia, it appears that maybe they weren't. If that is the case, then they were an entirely different race from the rest of us, not truly human, but of the Nephilim...half angel, half man. If we go back to the Sumerian tablets, they speak of those who from heaven to earth came and set up kingship. This is, also, what the Freemasons call "Authentic Tradition" in that a bloodline was established for those who would rule over the earth and its peoples.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 2 2004, 10:31 AM|
They may not have been bald but chose to shave their heads. I googled this up about egyptian hairstyles.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 2 2004, 11:02 AM|
| Forensic Recreation of "Conehead"
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 2 2004, 11:21 AM|
| I just have to google these people.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 2 2004, 11:28 AM|
| I think I'm on their trail.
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 2 2004, 02:27 PM|
| Seralia, when I questioned the bald-headed ones of ancient times, i.e., those with the elongated skulls, I had in mind a more ancient people than the Egyptians. I need to go back to Babylonian times into the Sumerian records. I have a few key words to google for the info. I may come up dry, then again, maybe not. Since I can't make heads nor tails out of posting pics, as it is confusing, I can at least post the sites where any pictures may be. I have asked my daughter for some help so that this ignorance won't handicap me for too much longer.
"I think I'm on their trail." Seralia, you've been hot on their trail during this entire thread!
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 3 2004, 04:59 PM|
|If somebody would walk me through the technical details of how to attach a photo here; I will show you an elongated skull of Mound Builder (Caddoan) royalty which was removed from a mound here in Fannin County, Texas in 1931 by the Univesity of Texas on a WPA funded project. The Sanders Mounds site is the second most important mound comlex next to Spiro, Oklahoma and is one of the two sites in Texas where turquoise from New Mexico was recovered. The other site was south of Rockwall Texas and a ancient trade route connects Spiro, to Sanders, to Rockwall and all the way to Northern Mexico where a unique green obsidian was mined.|
|Posted by: Mark Oct 3 2004, 07:00 PM|
| Tex, first the image has to be uploaded online somewhere.
Then simply click on the button above that says IMG and type the URL into the pop up window.
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 3 2004, 08:11 PM|
That is the url that I copied from the Precolumbian_Inscriptions forum at yahoo where I had posted it in the files section under skulls. Hopefully you all can copy and paste from this long url above it is a very large image but impressive IMHO. It is one of two published in "The 1931 Excavations of the Sanders Mound Site in Lamar County Texas" by Alex Krieger et al. published by Texas Archeology Research Lab in Austin, Texas. It lay in a drawer unpublished until last year when funding was finally found for publication after 73 years. The site actually extends to the west side of Bois D'Arc Creek which is the original boundary line of Fannin County established in 1836 by Dr. Daniel Rowlett who led a colony there when it was thought to be in Miller County Arkansas. The grave containing the turquoise was on the Goss Farm just west of the two royal burial mounds. Though the area was eerily devoid of settlements of any kind, Native or European when Dr. Rowlett arrived, I have discovered that Fannin County is literally a vast necropolis. What caused the disappearance of the Temple Mound Culture which was still thriving up until the end of the 18th century in other parts of Texas and neighboring states is unknown.
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 3 2004, 08:19 PM|
| Hi, Tex. I tried to access the website you posted, but it says the Page Cannot Be Found.
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 3 2004, 09:14 PM|
| BJ it did the same thing when I tried to access it just now. Let me try again to link the url just before the actual image. the IMG button would not let me paste it in; perhaps it is way too long. The image itself fill the page. As I said before you may just have to register at Precolumbian_Inscriptions to access it. It would be a good idea to do so anyway as Mike White, the site owner has one of the most extensive archives of this kind of material on the web.
See if that works.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 3 2004, 09:17 PM|
| Just when the trail was getting a little bit cold, Tex comes up with a new lead. Thanx Tex.
Indiana's got some interesting skulls hidden somewhere.
Jay County, Indiana
Indiana Department of Geology and Natural History
12th Annual Report 1882
I found this too... Two old reports of ancient skeletal remains being found with two skulls being much older than Neanderthal Man.
Discovery of an early type of man in Nebraska
Barbour, E.H., and Ward, H.B. ; Science, 24:628, 1906
In a circular mound recently opened on a Loess hill north of Florence, near Omaha, Nebraska, various skeletal parts, and eight human skulls of a primitive type were exposed. The credit of the discovery blongs to Mr. Robert F. Gilder, of Omaha, who described and figured the skulls in the World Herald, October 21.
That there was intrusive burial in this mound is apparent from the fact taht the skulls found below a layer of burned clay are of a much more primitive type than those found above it. Already five skulls have been taken from the lower level, and three from the upper, and others are in evidence and will be dug out later. Those of the upper layer probably belonged to Indians of a later period, and may be left out of account for the present. The skulls of the lower layer are low-browed and inferior, the supercialiary ridges being thick and protruding, the distance through the temples narrow, and the frontal emiences being as feebly developed as in Neanderthal man. The low arch of the skull is not the result of head-binding, but is normal and characteristic as is evidenced by five crania, two of which are fairly complete (...)
The skulls are brachycephalic, and extremely narrow in transverse diameter through the temples, expanding rapidly at the parietals. Length of skull 182 mm ; minimum breadth 93 mm ; maximum breadth 160 mm.
In shape and size the mandible agrees well with that of modern man, although the following marked differences are to be noted ; the bone, particularly in the region of the symphysis, is far heavier, the muscular scars more prominents, and the third molar in each case is ground to the very gum, while the second and third are ground in a diminishing ratio. The canines are weak and scarcely distinguishable from the incisors, and the space between the molars and the base of the coronoid is wide.
(...) The femora, which are massive, manifest an interior curvature more prononced than ordinary, and in cross section they appear triangular through the great development of the linea aspera, all muscular scars and tuberosities are noticeably prominent (...)
the skulls of the Nebraska man seem to be inferior to those of the mound builder, but for the present at least will be viewed as early representatives of the tribe.
Ancient skull discovered near Santa Barbara
Anonymous, Nature, 112:699, 1923
According to a telegram from New York which appeared in the Times of October 31, an expedition of the Smithsonian Institution, of which Dr. J. P. Harrington is the head, has discovered, at Santa Barbara, in California, two human skulls for which a very high antiquity is claimed. They are said to belong to an era far earlier than that of Neanderthal man. The evidence upon which this claim is based would appear to be a low forehead and very pronounced eyebrow ridges. The mouth cavity is extremely large and the walls of the skull very thick. They are said to be twice the thickness of ancient Indian's skulls. Until more detailed evidence is available, judgment must be suspended as to the likelihood of this claim to a high antiquity being substantiated ; but it may be pointed out that skulls exhibiting Neandertaloid characteristics, especially in the pronounced eyebrow ridge, have been found in more than one occasion in the United States. Although a great age has been attributed to them, upon further examination they have been pronounced to be merely a relatively modern variety of the Indian type. It is significant that the new Santa Barbara skulls were associated with a material culture, implements, fish-hooks, etc. which is said to show a great advance upon any culture that can be associated with Neanderthal man.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 3 2004, 09:26 PM|
| I found some giants.
The GIANTS of Conneaut
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 3 2004, 09:54 PM|
| Holocaust of Giants
The Great Smithsonian Cover-up
Noted Native American author and professor of law emeritus, Vine Deloria, writes in a personal communication:
It's probably better that so few of the ruins and remains were tied in with the Smithsonian because they give good reason to believe the ending of the Indiana Jones movie—a great warehouse where the real secrets of earth history are buried.
Modern day archaeology and anthropology have nearly sealed the door on our imaginations, broadly interpreting the North American past as devoid of anything unusual in the way of great cultures characterized by a people of unusual demeanor. The great interloper of ancient burial grounds, the nineteenth century Smithsonian Institution, created a one-way portal, through which uncounted bones have been spirited. This door and the contents of its vault are virtually sealed off to anyone, but government officials. Among these bones may lay answers not even sought by these officials concerning the deep past.
The first hint we had about the possible existence of an actual race of tall, strong, and intellectually sophisticated people, was in researching old township and county records. Many of these were quoting from old diaries and letters that were combined, for posterity, in the 1800s from diaries going back to the 1700s. Says Vine in this understanding:
Some of these old county and regional history books contain real gems because the people were not subjected to a rigid indoctrination about evolution and were astonished about what they found and honestly reported it.
The title pages of the early county and pioneer history books often included phrases like "CAREFULLY WRITTEN AND COMPILED" and "LEST WE FORGET."
Some time before archaeology came to subscribe the general public to its view of prehistory—generations prior to Darwin's troublesome theory—the pioneers thought that some of the earthworks were as ancient as could be concurrent with human habitation in America. Some among the early settlers exercised their pens assured that the earthworks were not built by the direct ancestry of the native people living in the historical period, but rather were constructed in a more remote era encompassing a different social order. They compared the "Mound Builders," with the "Indians," clearly discerning the former as belonging to an earlier time—possessing a different fate or destiny from the latter.
Evidence for the occupation of this region before the appearance of the red man and the white race is to be found in almost every part of the county, as well as through the northwest generally. In removing the gravel bluffs, which are numerous and deep, for the construction and repair of roads, and in excavating cellars, hundreds of human skeletons, some of them of giant form, have been found. A citizen of Marion County estimates that there were about as many human skeletons in the knolls of Marion County as there are white inhabitants at present!...
More information on the Giants of Conneaut Here:
Ashtabula County, Ohio: Misc. Sources
|Posted by: Mark Oct 3 2004, 10:51 PM|
| Hey Tex, maybe you can email me the image and then I'll post it.
If it's under 1 MB should be no problem.
Seralia, if you get a chance, take a peek at the GIANT thread in this section.
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 4 2004, 03:20 PM|
|PuPP check your mail; the skull from the Sanders Mound in Texas is 500K. This skull is probably still stored in the TARL building at the University of Texas in Austin, unless the Caddo Nation repatriated it to Oklahoma as they did with the strange three legged pots and other artifacts from Sanders. It's strange that they were "repatriated" to Oklahoma when they came from the original homeland here in Texas. The Caddo, a collective name for about five groups were the last expression of the great mound building cultures extending from the Canadian border to the Gulf of Mexico. They built the great earthworks and earth pyramids of North America and were in their second copper age when they began to decline like the Anasazi of the Southwest. I will try to retrieve some images from a professional collector group I belong to.These are the tablets containing the protowriting of the Adena culture which resemble Old World artifacts from the Neolithic.|
|Posted by: Mark Oct 4 2004, 06:24 PM|
| Skull found at Sanders Mound in Texas
Thanx Tex, that sure does look very similar to some of the south american skulls.
But not as pronounced as the Eyptian and the Summerian.
Do you know approximately what year or century this person lived?
Cool, I love this kind of stuff!
|Posted by: Prue Oct 4 2004, 11:51 PM|
| I love this skulls like this have been a passion for me. Wonderful contributions.
Here’s a take on Kiya.
There is a story that Drunvalo Melchizedek tells it fits into both the timeline and the elongated skulls. Can’t find any links so forgive me if I miss some parts it’s late.
Originally there were a Lemurian couple Ay and Tiya (not Kiya, I’ll suggest that was her name, there is a later Kiya, however I think who you are looking for is Tiya probably some historic confusion) who became physically immortal beings prior to the sinking of that continent. Reputedly they started they Naacal Mystery School teaching ascension to others. They did a whole lot of other stuff that’s not important here for the sake of this story, in Atlantis.
This is where they come in to the Egyptian pantheon. As the Egyptians began to loose their consciousness of one God (remember as a stair step evolutionary kind of place they were falling asleep again). They needed to have a Christ consciousness being walk the earth to put the real thing back into the Akashic record. So Ay and Tiya were enlisted to create a child, they did this with some type of high level trans dimensional sex. Akhunaton was their child. He was only given about 17 ½ years to make his imprint around 1355 B.C. Everyone hated him. He disrupted all religions telling everyone that priests were not necessary and that God was within them. My kind of guy. He also was a total pacifist and told all the armies to stop fighting, he ordered them to stay inside their borders and only respond if directly attacked. The People hated him, however it did not matter because he got all this into the Akashic record. he and his followers were reputedly a members of the Tat brotherhood who later migrated to the Masada and became the Essenes.
I'll be back with some other stuff later~just a late night story for now ;-)
|Posted by: Prue Oct 5 2004, 12:01 AM|
This bust was labled Queen Tiya, the Elder Lady
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 5 2004, 08:21 AM|
| Akhenaten is principally famous for his religious reforms, where the polytheism of Egypt was to be supplanted by monotheism centered around Aten, the god of the solar disc. This was possibly a move to lessen the political power of the Priests. Now the Pharaoh, not the priesthood, was the sole link between the people and Aten which effectively ended the power of the various temples.
Akhenaten built a temple to his god Aten immediately outside the east gate of the temple of Amun at Karnak, but clearly the coexistence of the two cults could not last. He therefore proscribed the cult of Amun, closed the god's temples, took over the revenues. He then sent his officials around to destroy Amun's statues and to desecrate the worship sites. These actions were so contrary to the traditional that opposition arose against him. The estates of the great temples of Thebes, Memphis and Heliopolis reverted to the throne. Corruption grew out of the mismanagement of such large levies.
It was said that one day Akhenaten had a vision wherein he saw a sun disc between two mountains. He felt that God was guiding him to make change. He was shown the God, Aten, as the Sun Disk - the Light. He felt guided by Aten to build a city between the two mountains.
In the sixth year of his reign Akhenaten rejected the Gods of Thebes. They were never part of his childhood anyway since he had been shunned as a child. Akhenaten had declared for the first time in recorded that there was only one God - the concept of monotheism. Overnight he turned 2,000 years of Egyptian religious upside down...
(This is a really good site if you are interested in Akhenaten, Nefertiti, their children, and lots of pics.)
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 5 2004, 08:58 AM|
| I think that I read something like that somewhere Prue. There were two or three old books that I had read that had similar stories in them. I can't remember the names oft he books though.
There is a Tiya mentioned in some of the texts and she was one of Ramesses II sisters. If I remember correctly, Ramesses II had red hair, which may be another reason why members of the royal families chose to shave their heads and wear wigs.
Tiya was definitely a Queen and the daughter of Yuya and Tjuyu. Tjuyu, her mother was a descendent of Ahmose Nefertari and her father Yuya, may have been of Asiatic descent according to one account.
They had another daughter named Tiy who was Queen of Amenhotep III. Tiy was the mother of Akhenaton. Yuya and Tjuyu also had two sons who were named Anen and Ay.
Yuya and Tjuyu were also the Maternal Great Grandparents of Ankhesenamun.
There is of course an Ay and Tiya mentioned by Melchizedek.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 5 2004, 09:19 AM|
| Thanx for the image of the Skull Tex and Pupp. It is definitely an unusual specimin with a significantly larger brain capacity, probably around the 2000 cc range. Very similar to a Neanderthal skull and definitely human. The skull has all the right bones and sutures. It is very similar to Akhenaten's skull and doesn't show any evidence of deformation. The one difference that I just noticed with Akhenaten's skull is that the occipital bone, which is supposed to be on the back of the head is on the bottom. Very peculiar.
Actually... Now that I can see both skulls, both their occipital bones are not where they're supposed to be so they both appear to be very close in comparison.
I finally found a good example of a cradle-board skull that came from China BTW.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 5 2004, 10:05 AM|
| I was looking for a Neanderthal skull for comparison and came up with this interesting bit of information.
Neanderthal fraud discovered by Dr. Jack Cuozzo La Quina
One of my sister's was working on the hypothesis that Neanderthals didn't die out but somehow managed to survive, due to their above normal brain capacity and blend in.
This is a comparison of a normal human child's skull to that of a Neanderthal child's skull:
Oh and it seems that Neanderthals had canibalistic tendencies. Either that or somebody else ate them.
Photographs for Moula Neanderthal Cannibalism Story
Here is a comparison of a normal human skull and a Neanderthal skull. Note the longer braincase and the tilt of the occipital bone. It would be more likely that the Egyptian royal clan were somehow related to the Neanderthals than normal humans.
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 5 2004, 10:18 AM|
| Seralia thanks for posting Akhenaton's skull for comparison; I think the similarity is remarkable. Well actually not that remarkable as Cyclone Covey has shown linguistic simitlarities in the Atakapan language of the Texas Gulf coast and Ancient Egyptian. The Atakapans were best represented by the abnormaly large and powerful Karankawas who rescued Cabeza De Vaca's shipwrecked crew on the Texas coast in the 1520's. These are people you might want to look at in relation to Giants in America although they are not the red haired giants of Nevada who were exterminatied by the Paiutes around 800 AD. These people, the Karankawas were well over six feet tall and their long bows could not be drawn by the average European. An early Texas account tells of a Karankawa shooting an arrow completely through a black bear at 600 yards and that story was by no means unique. The Karankawas were finally exterminated in the 1840's because of their practice of stealing children and eating them. This was not a practice limited to the Karankawas and the Tonkawas who were infamous for their non ritual cannibalism aided the destruction of the Comanches who shunned any form of cannibalism and were waging a genocidal war against the Tonkawa.
Now recently Federico Solorzano presented a fragment of Homo Erectus skull and jaw found at Lake Chapala, Mexico to a conference of anthropologists in September. This is not the first primitive skull to be found in the Americas and two others from Brazil were labeled hoaxes back in the Monte Verde debates. They are not hoaxes in my opinion and there are several sites such as the El Horno site in Mexico which produced 250,000 year old dates which ruined the careers of three people. These sites are now being reexaminined. Many such as the rejected Calico site are in the Mojave Desert of California. I will go into greater depth on these as this discussion progresses. We must start with a blank slate now because it has long been obvious that the present paradigm is intentionally false. I'm sorry I could not retrieve the Adena tablet but it had sunk too far back in the threads to access. I do have an Adena calender image I will send PuPP to post here that is even more impressive.
Mayslick Kentucky Calendar Stone
Is Drumvalo Melchisedek the author of Keys to Enoch? And do you recommend that book as containing valid information?
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 5 2004, 10:28 AM|
| This almost reads like a description of the british Royal Family.
Neanderthals Reconstructed - Not Human Ancestors!
LONDON August 1, 2001 (Reuters) - Computer graphics of Neanderthals based on ancient fossils show they were very different from early humans and did not mix with them, Swiss scientists said Wednesday.
The virtual reality images of reconstructed Neanderthal skulls have distinctive features established very early in childhood which did not develop gradually through life, suggesting they coexisted but did not breed with each other.
"This is a strong argument for early separation on the species level, which means they had isolated populations. There might have been some accidental inbreeding but certainly not a big exchange of genes,'' said Christoph Zollikofer, a neurobiologist at the University of Zurich.
Zollikofer and Marcia Ponce de Leon, computer scientist and anthropologist at the university, created virtual reality models of Neanderthal skulls from 16 fossils of the creatures who lived in Europe, North Africa and Asia between 125,000 and 40,000 years ago.
They wanted to compare their development from childhood to that of early and modern humans.
They found that the distinctive features of the Neanderthal skull and face were there by the age of two years.
"We wanted to find out the basic development in Neanderthals in comparison to humans. It was a surprise to find how homogeneous these species behaved during development,'' Zollikofer added in a telephone interview.
The research, reported in the science journal Nature, supports earlier genetic evidence showing Neanderthals are too distant genetically to have been an ancestor of modern humans.
"We think that together with the genetic data ... it is quite reasonable to think that these are really two different species separated at least half a million years ago,'' said Zollikofer.
To construct the virtual reality images the scientists used computer tomography of the Neanderthal fossils to get three dimensional data and customized computer software to create the images.
"We now have a dynamic approach to the morphology (the study of forms). We can say something about how an extinct species developed from birth to adulthood,'' Zollikofer said.
Neanderthals differ from anatomically modern Homo sapiens in a suite of cranial features:
1. A low but elongated and broadened braincase
2. Characteristic cranial suprastructures such as a supraorbital torus, a small mastoid process, a large juxtamastoid eminence, and a suprainiac fossa
3. A large face with rounded orbits, an wide nasal aperture, an inflated paranasal region and an anteroposteriorly slanting infraorbital region
4. A mandible with a receding chin region and a retromolar space in adult individuals
On The Web:
Computer-assisted Paleoanthropology at the University of Zurich - http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/staff/zolli/CAP/Main_face.htm
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 5 2004, 11:04 AM|
|PuPP the Adena calender stone is in your mail. When it is posted be sure to note the similarity to the ivory head of a woman and the Venus of Wilendorf figurines from the European Paleolithic.|
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 5 2004, 11:13 AM|
| They make Neanderthal appear to be as primative as possible but in reality, they were quite advanced.
Feature Article - September 1997
by Do-While Jones
The Neanderthal Problem
Oh would you look at this. Red hair and Neanderthal charictoristics in the Egyptian Royal family.
Redheads 'are neanderthal'
Monday April 16, 2001
The Times, London
RED hair may be the genetic legacy of Neanderthals, scientists believe. Researchers at the John Radcliffe Institute of Molecular Medicine in Oxford say that the so-called "ginger gene" which gives people red hair, fair skin and freckles could be up to 100,000 years old.
They claim that their discovery points to the gene having originated in Neanderthal man who lived in Europe for 200,000 years before Homo sapien settlers, the ancestors of modern man, arrived from Africa about 40,000 years ago.
Rosalind Harding, the research team leader, said: "The gene is certainly older than 50,000 years and it could be as old as 100,000 years.
"An explanation is that it comes from Neanderthals." It is estimated that at least 10 percent of Scots have red hair and a further 40 per cent carry the gene responsible, which could account for their once fearsome reputation as fighters.
Neanderthals have been characterised as migrant hunters and violent cannibals who probably ate most of their meat raw. They were taller and stockier than Homo sapiens, but with shorter limbs, bigger faces and noses, receding chins and low foreheads.
The two species overlapped for a period of time and the Oxford research appears to suggests that they must have successfully interbred for the "ginger gene" to survive. Neanderthals became extinct about 28,000 years ago, the last dying out in southern Spain and southwest France.
I'll drink to that.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 5 2004, 11:22 AM|
| Sureeeeeeeeeee they didn't interbreed.
N.Y. Times April 25, 1999
Discovery Suggests Humans Are a Bit Neanderthal
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
Neanderthals and modern humans not only coexisted for thousands of years long ago, as anthropologists have established, but now their little secret is out: they also cohabited.
At least that is the interpretation being made by paleontologists who have examined the 24,500-year-old skeleton of a young boy discovered recently in a shallow grave in Portugal. Bred in the boy's bones seemed to be a genetic heritage part Neanderthal, part early modern Homo sapiens. He was a hybrid, they concluded, and the first strong physical evidence of interbreeding between the groups in Europe.
"This skeleton demonstrates that early modern humans and Neanderthals are not all that different," said Dr. Erik Trinkaus, a paleoanthropologist at Washington University in St. Louis. "They intermixed, interbred and produced offspring."
Although some scientists disputed the interpretation, other scientists who study human origins said in interviews last week that the findings were intriguing, probably correct and certain to provoke debate and challenges to conventional thinking about the place of Neanderthals in human evolution.
Neanderthals and modern humans presumably were more alike than different, not a separate species or even subspecies, but two groups who viewed each other as appropriate mates.
Recent DNA research had appeared to show that the two people were unrelated and had not interbred. Neanderthals lived in Europe and western Asia from 300,000 years ago until the last of them disappeared on the Iberian peninsula about 28,000 years ago. In the prevailing theory today, modern humans arose in Africa less than 200,000 years ago and appeared in great numbers in Europe, starting about 40,000 years ago.
The new discovery could, at long last, resolve the question of what happened to the Neanderthals, the stereotypical stocky, heavy-browed "cave men." They may have merged with modern humans, called Cro-Magnons, who appear to have arrived in Europe with a superior tool culture. In that case, some Neanderthal genes survive in most Europeans and people of European descent.
The skeleton of the boy, buried with strings of marine shells and painted with red ocher, was uncovered in December by Portuguese archeologists led by Dr. Joo Zilhao, director of the Institute of Archeology in Lisbon. The discovery was made in the Lapedo Valley near Leiria, 90 miles north of Lisbon.
Realizing the potential significance, Dr. Zilhao called in Dr. Trinkaus, an authority on Neanderthal paleontology, who went to Lisbon and examined the bones in January.
The boy, who was about 4 years old at death, had the prominent chin and other facial characteristics of a fully modern human. But his stocky body and short legs were those of a Neanderthal. Dr. Trinkaus compared the limb proportions with Neanderthal skeletons, including some children. He said he was then sure of the skeleton's implications.
"It's a complex mosaic, which is what you get when you have a hybrid," Dr. Trinkaus said. "This is the first definite evidence of admixture between Neanderthals and European early modern humans."
The age of the skeleton, determined by radiocarbon dating, showed that full Neanderthals had apparently been extinct for at least 4,000 years before the boy was born. "This is no love child," Dr. Trinkaus said, meaning that this was not evidence of a rare mating but a descendant of generations of Neanderthal-Cro-Magnon hybrids.
Dr. Trinkaus and Dr. Zilhao have completed a more detailed scientific report to be published soon in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. DNA tests on the skeleton have not yet been done.
Other Neanderthal specialists reacted favorably to the discovery. Dr. Fred H. Smith of Northern Illinois University in De Kalb called it "very convincing and absolutely right."
Dr. Smith noted that he had come upon other skeletal material in central Europe that raised the possibility of interbreeding between the groups. Though most scholars in the field will probably accept the possibility of interbreeding, he said, a significant number will probably not.
The more ardent exponents of the out-of-Africa hypothesis of modern human origins may be holdouts. They have argued that early modern humans all emerged from Africa and wiped out the Neanderthal population in Europe. Whether the relationship was fraternal or genocidal has been much debated. But many have argued that the two groups were distinct, with humans displacing and probably slaughtering their rivals.
Dr. Chris Stringer, an expert on Neanderthals at the Museum of Natural History in London, who is a leader of the out-of-Africa forces, said that he was willing to consider the Portuguese findings with an open mind. He told The Associated Press that the current evidence was not sufficient to convince him of Dr. Trinkhaus's hybrid interpretation.
An alternative theory, known as regional continuity, holds that the earliest human ancestors arose in Africa and spread around the world more than a million years ago. Modern humans then emerged in different regions through separate evolution and interbreeding. A leading advocate of this theory is Dr. Milford Wolpoff, a paleontologist at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor.
"This find should be devastating to the out-of-Africa people," Dr. Wolpoff said. "It shows their theory doesn't work, at least in Europe. And it shows that fundamentally, Neanderthals are the same species we are and they contributed their genes to European ancestry."
By now, scientists said, only a small fraction of Neanderthal genes have survived, the European gene pool having been further mixed through migrations during the spread of agriculture and invasions from the east.
But Dr. Wolpoff cautioned that it would take more than one skeleton to tell the effects of interbreeding apart from ordinary evolutionary changes, the result of genes modifying in response to environmental stresses.
Dr. Alan Mann, a specialist in human evolution at the University of Pennsylvania, called the Portuguese hybrid skeleton "some of the most important data we ever got about Neanderthals in human evolution," but said he was not sure that interbreeding had been established.
Dr. Trinkaus said the discovery "refutes strict replacement models of modern human origins" and also seemed to undermine interpretations of recent DNA research. Two years ago, Dr. Svante Paabo of the University of Munich in Germany, reported that a study of the genetic material DNA from Neanderthal remains and living humans indicated that Neanderthals did not interbreed with the modern humans.
At the time, scientists said the DNA results reinforced the idea that Neanderthals were a separate species from modern humans. If the new findings are correct, though, the two groups were probably more like different races of the same species.
"The problem with the DNA research was the interpretation," Dr. Trinkaus said. "It's demonstrably wrong. All that they showed is that Neanderthal biology is outside the range of living humans, not modern Homo sapiens back then."
Dr. Alan Templeton, an evolutionary geneticist at Washington University, said that some hybridization occurs without the effects showing up, for example, in mitochondrial DNA, which is passed only through the mother. "But if you look deep enough in evolutionary time, you find a lot of interbreeding," Dr. Templeton said. "That is what humanity is all about: we interbreed a lot."
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 5 2004, 11:44 AM|
| Neanderthals really didn't look that different.
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 5 2004, 12:02 PM|
|Seralia I'm glad you posted that last part because I was going to point out the obvious. If it is possible to interbreed humans wiil interbreed. And since Neanderthal was clearly human and not all that different it is inevitable that groups interbred. The Adena are the robust first wave of the North American civilizations that we have clear undisputed evidence of. Whenever you hear "robust" in anthropology always think "Big, and heavy boned". Now what is peculiar, I have found that when ever you find instances of these "Robust" people in North America you also have "Gracile" people which means practically speaking "pygmies'. I have a few of their artifacts photographed and they are contrary to the assertions of todays "experts" not suiltable for hunting large animals without poison on them. Any archery enthusiast will tell you arrows kill by exsanquination, that is they bleed the victim to death. Now these tiny paleoindian points won't even pierce a buffalo hide and probably not a camel or horse either. Yet the stories of the Comanches about the "Little People" state that their little darts never failed to be fatal. Sounds very much like people of the Ituri Forest and Kalahari Desert to me. I'm glad we have some people here deeper into osteology than I am. This thread is very educational for me.|
|Posted by: Mark Oct 5 2004, 03:19 PM|
| Wow, I am always impressed and amazed when I come back to this thread.
Seralia, you are awesome!
Prue, thanks for joining in and contributing.
Tex, I got the email and didn't realize it was from you, so you can ignore my reply.
I inserted the Calendar stone into your post.
Here's a side by side comparison of...
Sanders Mound Texas Skull and Akhenaten Skull
Seralia, those skulls found in china sure look different.
I'm going to throw in one of my whacky theories. We are all genetic results of interbreeding and creation from advanced beings who needed a strong slave race to mine the earth for minerals and to build the monuments.
There were several various species created, negroid, caucasoid and mongoloid seem to be the 3 dominant ones.
In reference to the little people - pygmies and such.
Think about this... if you were small and weak, wouldn't you need a strong and large race to perform all of the laborous tasks for you?
Just a theory mind you, carry on!
And thank you all for your wonderful contributions!
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 5 2004, 03:30 PM|
| Ah yes... the paleoindian points. Normally such points would be ineffective via a bow and arrow delivery system without poison, but I think it was the Aztecs that had another way of launching small projectile pointed objects at a velocity that could do a number on spanish armour.
Physics and the Atlatl
They apparently did have some type of high velocity weapon.
Neanderthal Skull With "Bullet Hole" Behind Ear
An Auroch is an large, extinct "buffalo like" animal. Many skeletons of this extinct type have been found in Europe.
What is remarkable about one in particular in the Moscow Museum of Paleontology is that it has a bullet hole in its skull. The hole is round, without radial cracks that would result from slower projectiles like spears and arrows. The only known projectile that leaves this kind of smooth, round hole without radial cracks is a bullet because of its velocity.
I mention the auroch first because of a possible objection that can be raised. If it is indeed a bullet hole, perhaps the skeleton was shot many, many years after the animals' death. The problem here is that the auroch survived the wound and lived long enough for unmistakable calcification to appear at the site of the injury.
How did an animal that became extinct supposedly thousands and thousands of years ago come by a "modern" bullet hole in its skull
A similar round, clean, smooth hole without radial cracks was found in the skull of a "Neanderthal" man found in the early 1920's in Rhodesia. The man supposedly died over 40,000 years ago.
The skull is currently at the British Museum. The skull was found more than fifty feet below ground level. In addition to the hole consistent only with that made by a bullet, the other side of the skull was blown out from the inside.
|Posted by: Prue Oct 5 2004, 05:20 PM|
|Seralia you truly are amazing thank you for responding to my post. With Tex and the rest of you all in here I feel like I am in the company of the mental monoliths of skull information. I'll learn a lot in here. Thanks!|
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 5 2004, 07:38 PM|
| Seralia, you are quite correct in your information on the atlatl; its power exceeds that of most primitive bows and it was not equaled until the advent of the Longbow(found among the Karankawas and other Gulf Coast tribes), the composite laminated bows of the Plains Horse Cultures(both Old World Scythians and North American Comanche, Kiowa, Osage etc). The bow was not used in Texas and the southwest until around 700 AD and the atlatl was used well into the 16th century. On the other hand the paleoindian points (which are something of a specialty of mine) are quite large compared to even a Plains buffalo point. Most laymen mistakenly call an archaic dart point a spear point but the dart used with the atlatl is somewhere between a very large arrow and a very small spear. The paleoindian varieties are almost all socketed affairs meant to stay in the victim like an Eskimo harpoon. The socketed section about a foot long could quickly be reloaded onto the main shaft.
The so called "bird points" are the size of my little fingernail yet exactly styled like the massive dart points. I have often suspected that they may have been propelled by blowguns which were still in use among the Cherokees in historic times. Arrow poisons were quite common and the one which compares favorably with curarare is nicotine concentrate used in the Mississippi Valley for probably thousands of years. Now these little artifacts are not limited to points; I have seen tiny ax heads too from Lake Hugo, photos from New Mexico where "hives" of tiny dwellings exist of the "Ant People" with more of these tiny axes, and finally I have handled an example brought back from the Libyan desert which is identical to others from Eastern Oklahoma.
In conclusion, Seralia, I think there is a whole body of evidence for the existence of a very small statured group of flesh and blood people, all over the world. And do not mistake small size for weakness. All accounts I have gathere indicate these were extraordinary miners and quarrymen with strength equal to their larger neighbors. In addition I suspect they had advanced techniques for manipulating physical matter.
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 5 2004, 08:15 PM|
| On the drygulched aurochs and Neanderthal, let me play devil's advocate here for a moment because these have intrigued me for many years. Let's consider the sling first because Leakey found evidence of the use of bolas at Lake Turkana by the ealiest humans. Now a bola is nothing but a captive stone sling. The ordinary sling made from fishing twine and the tongue of a shoe is quite adequate to kill a calf as my grandfather found to his dismay when he slung a piece of road gravel at a calf to scare it back to the herd and killed it as surely as if he had shot it with a rifle. The stone hit behind the ear and the yearling dropped without a sound instantly. Now if you take your time and make a bicone such as the later Greeks used, you have a missile that can attain hundreds of feet per second. As the lithic technology shows the Paleolithic people were genius level in their media. If you've seen the petroglyphs from the caves in France (Tres Freres?) you know the Cro Magnon were far more sophisticated than previously thought, why not Neanderthal as well?
Hypothesis two: A crossbow device using a wooden firehardened projectile. The Montagnard of the Annamese Highlands had them why not the Paleolithic People? Another precoscious invention like the airfoil called a boomerang?
Hypothesis three. firearms age good old boys taking target practice on some old bones they found on the prairie?
Hypothesis four: Unlucky meteorite victims.
Hypothesis five: Buffalo Gal's Discount Time Safaris; Get Your Buff or the Trips on Us. Nasty Neanderthal discovers too late that there's no free lunch at Buffalo Gal's Camp.
|Posted by: JenThom Oct 5 2004, 08:45 PM|
| Very impressive work Seralia.
One thing that I picked up on while comparing the Sanders Mound Texas skull and Akhenaten's skull to that of a Neanderthal skull is that Akhenaten's skull has a well pronunced brow ridge like that of a Neanderthal skull. I would almost tend to think that they were of the same or at least very similar species. The Texas skull, however, has a more modern appearance with a less defined brow ridge. More along the lines oF Cro-Magnon than Neanderthal. Perhaps a hybrid of Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal.
And yes there was such a thing.
Neandertal-Cro-Magnon Hybrid? April 29, 1999
by Spencer P.M. Harrington
Analysis of the skeletal remains of this four-year-old boy has revealed that he may be a Neandertal-Cro-Magnon hybrid. (Courtesy João Zilhão) [LARGER IMAGE]
Analysis of the skeletal remains of a four-year-old child buried in a Portuguese rock-shelter 25,000 to 24,500 years ago has yielded startling evidence that early modern humans and Neandertals may have interbred. While the boy's prominent chin, tooth size, and pelvic measurements marked him as a Cro-Magnon, or fully modern human, his stocky body and short legs indicate Neandertal heritage, says Erik Trinkaus, a paleoanthropologist at Washington University in St. Louis. Interbreeding could answer the vexed question of the fate of the Neandertals, the last of whom disappeared from the Iberian Peninsula 28,000 years ago.
Trinkaus was summoned to Portugal after archaeologists searching for rock art in the Lapedo Valley, 85 miles north of Lisbon, found the burial this past December. João Zilhão of the University of Lisbon, the excavation's director, described the skeleton's preservation as "miraculous"--only the skull and right arm were badly broken. The boy is the first Palaeolithic burial ever excavated on the Iberian Peninsula, and among the oldest modern humans ever scientifically excavated.
Trinkaus, who compared the boy's limb proportions with those of Neandertal skeletons, including some children, says that the body is the first definite evidence of a mixture between Neandertal and early humans. While full Neandertals are thought to have been extinct for 4,000 years before the boy was born, he appears to be a descendant of generations of Neandertal-Cro-Magnon hybrids. Neandertals belong to our species and contributed their genes to European ancestry, he says.
Cro-Magnon skulls were larger than modern man but nearly identical in shape with the same less defined brow ridge. The person that this skull belonged to had a severe fungal infection that deformed the front of ths skull.
The Conehead skulls, on the other hand, seem to represent an entirely diffrent species but it is possible that they interbred with the more Americanized Neanderthal/Cro-Magnon creating a being with a much larger brain case.
|Posted by: JenThom Oct 5 2004, 09:18 PM|
I would have to agree with you on that one Seralia. Look what I found.
Ancient Egypt priest was killed with bullet?
The employees of the British Museum conducted the first in history three-dimensional scanning of the mummy from Ancient Egypt.
Priest Nesperennub was buried in Fivi about 2,800 years ago. This is one of the most well-known mummies from the collection of the British Museum in London.
Earlier, the mummies were studied by X-ray tomography, but so far, nobody received three-dimensional computer map of the mummy, layer by layer. For this purpose, about 1,500 X-ray "cuts" were produced, and they were transformed in three-dimensional model by computer.
Now the museum visitors can see the inner part of the model after putting on special three-dimensional computer glasses. The skeleton of the priest is very well seen, it is even seen that one of his teeth was aching.
In addition, there is a round hole in Nesperennub"s skull as if he died of bullet.
|Posted by: JenThom Oct 5 2004, 09:26 PM|
| Nesperennub was a real egyptian and did actually have a mysterious small hole in his skull.
Egyptian Mummy Unwrapped in 3D
By Rossella Lorenzi, Discovery News
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 5 2004, 09:51 PM|
| JenThom, by 800 BC you are getting well into the age of the polesling. which uses a long pole to give mechanical advantage to the already powerful rawhide sling. These bicones I mentioned are cast lead double cones like two rifle bullets joined. Their use was integral to the mercenary armies of the Greeks as detailed in Thucydides' "The March Upcountry" which by the way, also describes pyramid structures made of stone containing shells. I'm not certain of the exact velocity achieved but I have no doubt it was equal to say a 600 feet per second .45 pistol bullet.
If you have read Chris Dunn's 'Giza Power Plant" as well as David Childress's collections of technology of the ancients, a high velocity weapon used in Egypt would not be at all surprising. Now a high velocity weapon in the last glacial maximum is a different matter. Still we must not underestimate the ancients. For instance I saw a pneumatic firestarter made of bamboo still in use among Pacific Islanders as I recall. It was elegant in its efficient simplicity yet it showed a deep understanding of physics. This is similar to the little convective ice trays the ancient Egyptians made and the stone mirrors of Catal Hoyuk 9000 years ago.
|Posted by: JenThom Oct 5 2004, 10:32 PM|
| I've read a little bit into the use of sling shots and similar types of weapons and the projectiles had a velocity that was said to be nearly equal to projectiles fired by 18th century black powder weapons Tex so it is not impossible to imagine that a small stone could achieve enough velocity to pierce a human skull. Depending on the type of stone used, a stone would most certainly make a more deadly projectile than a lead ball. I've played around with those wrist-rocket slingshots and those things sure do shoot little stones and metal balls pretty far and would probably generate enough power to make them penetrate human bone. I'll have to see if I can borow an old deer skull and take a few shots at it using stones and see what happens.
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 5 2004, 11:05 PM|
|JenThom, be sure to get some pictures of your results. I always like to see real life experiments like that. There was a film which I only saw stills of taken in Africa where some elephants were being culled using Clovis pointed darts and atlatls made by Bruce Bradley a flint knapper who has worked with Dennis Stanford on analysing many sites. I'm sure it was not a film really wanted to see any more than the one of Kung Bushmen killing a giraffe with poison arrows after apologising to it for taking its life. I don't oppose killing an animal if you really need to eat it or protect your other animals but I can't envision killing an elephant humanely with a dart. Your method sounds better since the animals already dead. A broad scapula bone would probably tell you what you needed to know too. Around here you can turn up a cowskull or bones in almost any pasture. BTW those lead cones were hardened by dropping them into cold water while they were hot. Still, I think you are correct that a quartz pebble would probably penetrate better.|
|Posted by: JenThom Oct 5 2004, 11:11 PM|
Here is a good example of one of Akhenaten's daughters Seralia. The shape of her skull is very similar to those two images of the wide elongated skull that you posted earlier.
And this is a rare top view of two of the elongated pre-Incan skulls.
Notice the lack of a brow ridge on both of the skulls that I mentioned earlier.
This is a really unusual one.
This one doesn't have a brow ridge but has an almost normally proportioned occipital bone that is just where it should be. However, the parietal lobes (?) are blown way out of proportion. One thing that does seem to be missing though is the suture(?) that divides the parietal lobes. No way that this could be a normal human skull that was deformed by the cradle-board method.
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 5 2004, 11:50 PM|
| I have found this entire thread to be INTENSELY interesting. Thank you all for presenting what you've found. I have to say that when these folks said they had a headache, they weren't kidding!
|Posted by: Mark Oct 5 2004, 11:57 PM|
| My word, we got some excelant stuff still coming in.
I cannot keep up with it all. But at least I can look at all of the photos.
JenThom, the final large head you posted is so huge. One of the biggest I have seen yet. And those other 2 are pretty large too.
Does it look really old to you? As I was looking at it, for some reason it just didn't look that old. Same as another skull in this thread somewhere.
I'm no bone expert but don't skulls usually show some weathering when they are very old? Maybe some are still around. Top Hats - 1800s
heh just a thought.
Thanks again to you all for this wonderful thread. It's a gold mine of information and awesome photos.
This type of information should be in school childrens textbooks by the 6th grade.
|Posted by: Wahya Oct 6 2004, 05:10 AM|
| We have legends of a 'little people' called the Yunwi Tsundi who were said to dwell in secluded areas of the mountains.
In old times we would make miniature copies of our tools, clothing, weapons, and pottery and leave them at places for them as offerings to let us pass through their areas.
Chimney Rock in North Carolina is one of the places it is said they had a hidden village.
Perhaps some of the tiny tools and weapons that have been found were offerings once.
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 6 2004, 05:49 AM|
|Wahya thanks for that information. The Choctaws and Comanches didn't have such cordial relationships with the Little People but sometimes the Choctaw shamans are "chosen" by the Little People. I was told of a number of local incidents involving the Little People fairly recently and of the place where they are most likely to be encountered. An anglo woman told me of an incident not far from here which sounds suspiciously like the Little People. The "Big People" are definitely around here with no doubts what so ever. There is a woman north of Durant who puts food out for them and one of her friends is claimed to have spoken with them in Comanche. That last struck me as very strange given the way Comanches are (heh,heh,heh). However, both groups large and small are obviously back in greater numbers in recent years. Some have hinted it is because of the approach of the Sixth World. The Lakota say that seeing the Big People is a sign to mend your ways. If so, a lot of ways need mending here on the Red River.|
|Posted by: Wahya Oct 6 2004, 06:03 AM|
|We have legends about Big People too. Slant Eyes and Stone Coat are the most well known, but there are lesser known tales of Wars between groups of them like the Red Beards and the Black Beards.|
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 6 2004, 08:50 PM|
I do know a little something about ancient linguistics and there are quite a few ancient European words mixed in with the languages of some tribes all throughout the Americas. In New England particular, there are quite a few similarities between native languages and ancient Phoenecian, Basque, Egyptian and an old form of Scottish Gaelic. There are also a lot of place names in New England that were thought to be Native in origin but some recent studies have found that quite a few of them can be easily translated using a Scottish/Gaelic language dictionary. I'm not sure about the language, but some words can be broken down into individual letters and each letter in the word becomes a word itself.
I did a little looking into the Karankawas and they were all over six feet tall and their bows stood just as tall as they did. They had arrows that were three feet long.
They also adorned their bodies with tatoos and practiced body piercing.
I read quite a bit of information about the 250,000 year old site and there was a considerable amount of controversy about it and I did see images of a few of the artifacts from there including a piece of animal bone of some kind which one linguistic expert thought had a recognizable ancient language written on it.
I agree with with you that the present paradigm is false Tex and know for a fact that itemsthat did not fit that paradigm were intentionally discarded or hidden away especially in New England. There's lots of evidence of pre-columbian sea-faring cultures having been in America that most American archaeologists are still refusing to look at or even take seriously. Where I live a lot of archaeologists would rather get paid off by greedy land developers than to do any actual archaeological research.
That calender image is impressive BTW.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 6 2004, 09:08 PM|
You're theory isn't wacky at all PuPP. On the contrary it makes a lot of sense. The only thing that I would have to correct you on is the number of dominent races as being four and not three. They were Red, White, Black and Yellow according to quite a number of legends worldwide. Each race had a direction and a color if I remember it correctly. As to where they originated from, there are some legends that one or more of the races came from elsewhere. Some people even claim to have come from the stars. As for us being slave labor for someone else, it does seem that we spent a lot of time in the desert building monuments and digging for gold and perhaps we're still working for them and don't even know it. Working a 9 to 5 job 5 to 7 days a week barely making enough to survive isn't really much different than building a pyramid in the deseert.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 6 2004, 10:00 PM|
Good catch JenThom.
You're right about the similarities between the skull's of Egyptian Royalty and Neanderthal. The brow ridge is a dead give away. The Neanderthal were a mysterious race that had an exceptionally larger brain capacity as well as superior strength and were found to have the same level of dexterity as modern man. There has also been some talk of them still having been alive long after they were thought to have become extinct and it is not impossible to think that they had interbred with an even more advanced race that increased their brain capacity even farther than it already was.
That skull is definitely unusual and it does have the occipital and temporal bone in the correct anatomical position but the parietal bones are definitely way out of proportion as is the frontal bone which is quite amazing. As for the suture that you say is missing, it might be missing or it could be more toward the back of the skull due to the elongation of the frontal bone.
In the image that shows the two skulls, what appears to be the coronal suture is visible on the first skull and also appears to be visible in the image of the third skull. The part of the skull that begins to taper is the parietal region BTW. That region is not where it's supposed to be either. It's supposed to be the top of the skull if that were a normal human skull.
Another thing that I find to be quite unusual is the mandible of the third skull as well as the maxilla especially the angle of the maxilla. The part of the mandible that connects into the jaw, (the condylar process of mandible) seems to be rather fragile looking as well as looking when compared with a modern human skull which is rather interesting. Too bad that the skull doesn't have any teeth because it seems that judging by the size of the mandible, the individual would have had fewer teeth than a normal human.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 6 2004, 10:17 PM|
|I think I'm right about there being fewer teeth in the third elongated skull. Now a normal human skull would have 14 upper teeth and the elongated skull would have no more than 8 just because of the angle of the maxilla bone. Almost reminds me of the way the teeth are positioned in the front part of a horse's jaw. In a horse's jaw there's teeth in the front and then a gap on both sides of the jaw where there's no teeth. I'll have to look back at the other skulls and check their teeth.|
|Posted by: Mark Oct 6 2004, 10:20 PM|
| Hi Seralia, thanks for not kicking me in the head when I open my mouth too much.
Sometimes I'm afraid to speak my mind for fear others will be trying to fix me up with my own private padded cell.
You're right, I forgot the red man, but I didn't know the "oid" prefix and it did slip my mind.
Sorry Wahya, Laughing Wolf and all the rest of you.
Do you know what race the Red Man is considered?
If this is known...
Asians/Orientals = Mongoloids
Black Africans = Negroids
Pale Face = Caucasoid
Red Man = ?
And what about Pacific Islanders?
It truly boggles the mind.
It almost looks like various different breeding programs over hundreds of thousands of years.
Ok here's my latest contribution.
These are some mini skulls I have in my archives.
I cannot recall off hand where I got them from, but whenever I see gems I just gotta save the images.
Can anyone provide any information on these little skulls?
P.S. This thread is better than any history class I ever had.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 6 2004, 10:22 PM|
|OK... I'm definitely right about the skull having fewer teeth than a normal person. I would say 16 total. That third skull is definitely unique with the teeth positioned at the front of the upper and lower jaw with gaps on the sides. Very unusual indeed.|
|Posted by: Mark Oct 6 2004, 10:33 PM|
Mmmm, that sounds very plausible.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 6 2004, 10:47 PM|
They seem to be templates of the possible skull shapes. I can almost see a room full of beings arguing about what these elongated skull people or themselves will look like. Either that or a catalogue of birth defects.
|Posted by: Wahya Oct 6 2004, 11:09 PM|
I dont know of any 'oid' reference...
Mainstream scientists consider our closest kin to be mongolians.
IMO, the peoples living in the americas when the Spanish arrived were the end result of many thousands of years of immigration and mixing from all over the world.
I've studied this too.
Old cherokee legends say once there was a band of cherokees who were 'white'. They broke off and migrated to the west and we never heard from them again.
I remember reading about the controversy about kenniwick man and a native said something to the point of "who cares what they claim he was, our elders tell us we did always look like we do now."
If you go back to some old 19th century photographs of native americans, look at the faces. Some appear asian...other look like arabs or dark europeans. Many are a bit of both.
Pupp, look for the book In Plain Sight by Gloria Farley.
You will find it infinitely fascinating.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 6 2004, 11:18 PM|
| Here's an interesting article about jaw size and brain capacity since I was going to say that the jaw of the third elongated skull appeared to be less powerful.
Slimmer jaw gave humans their brain
Thursday, 25 March 2004
Modern humans have such big brains and weak jaws because of a genetic mutation that occurred 2.4 million years ago, U.S. scientists say.
They discovered that a gene called MYH16 in modern humans mutated at about the same time that their skulls started to change in shape from other primates. This allowed their brains to increase in size.
But the trade-off was a smaller, less powerful jaw.
The researchers published their work in today's issue of the journal Nature.
"The coincidence in time...may mean that the decrease in jaw muscle size and force eliminated stress on the skull which released an evolutionary constraint on brain growth," said one of the researchers Adjunct Assistant Professor Nancy Minugh-Purvis, from the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine.
All humans have the MYH16 mutation but other primates, including chimpanzees and macaques, still have the intact gene.
Over the past few million years, since the genetic fault occurred, human skulls have grown three times in size and the outwardly elongated jaws have receded.
The researchers pieced together the puzzle after discovering that the gene was intact in primates but mutated in all humans.
If not a disease, then what?
A genetic fault is often linked with some type of inherited disease but the scientists were puzzled about what type of disease was common to all humans.
Further research revealed that the MYH16 gene was associated with muscles involved in chewing and biting and it encoded a protein in primate jaw muscles. This led the researchers to suspect the so-called disease in humans was really a weaker bite.
The researchers said the weaker bite would have lessened the force on the skull so it could grow larger and provide more space for a bigger brain.
"We can only hope that this study represents the vanguard of a new wave of analyses that focus on the genetic basis of human evolution," Currie added.
The crucial mutation wold have occurred at about the same time as the 'gracile' humans appeared in the fossil record, which had round skulls and small jaws.
Australian researcher Associate Professor Pete Currie, of the Victor Chang Cardiac Research Institute in Sydney, admitted "at first glance" the notion that such a tiny change could have such enormous consequences seemed "far-fetched".
But, he said, animal models had already shown that growth patterns of the craniofacial skeleton could be "radically altered" by a shift in muscle anatomy.
"Over time, the abrupt reduction in masticatory muscle size and contractile force that would have arisen within the MYH16-mutant ancestor could have had a considerable impact on cranial morphology," he said.
"Those effects might well have included a reduction in stress across the bones of the braincase, allowing it to become larger."
But Currie said the U.S. team did not address other factors that would have affected skull and jaw shape, such as a changing diet, or a growing dependence on using hands to break up food rather than ripping food apart with the mouth.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 6 2004, 11:33 PM|
Or Wahya is probably right and there's only the 3 "oids"
Everyone was a mix already from migration and then the pale face arrived and started doing his thing.
My italian great grandparents on my moms side resembled short little mexicans. It was eerie when I saw the photos.
I think we're all a product of interbreeding. But it looks like we've been targeted for elimination.
|Posted by: Without Fear Oct 7 2004, 09:15 AM|
This is an amazing thread - I have spend hours reading through and absorbing the information. Thanks to you all for sharing your knowledge!
I am reminded of the Quartz skulls that I read about many years ago. This is what I have recently found.
The most famous is the Mitchell-Hedges skull, which was either found in the Mayan ruins of Lubaantun, in Belize, in 1927, by his daughter Anna Mitchell-Hedges; Or (according to British Museum documents) was purchased at an auction at Sothebys in London, in 1943. The skull is expertly crafted.
The skull has been examined by experts from HP labs in 1970 who concluded:
I also recalled stories about there being 13 Quartz skulls around the world that originated in Atlantis, and that they were used for special spiritual ceremonies. This is what I have found today:
http://www.crystalinks.com/crystalskulls.html (Scroll down a couple of pages - the same photographs of elongated skulls are also here).
I don't want to divert the thread, but thought that this was interesting and made connections to some of the issues you have already raised.
PuPP, I have seen that 'skulls' picture before, and I believe that it is a photograph of the dried fruit of a snapdragon
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 7 2004, 12:45 PM|
| PuPP check your email for the Neanderthal skull from Brazil that I forwarded you. You can insert it in this message if you like. It was found in the caves where Lund found the extinct animal bones. I will look up the details and post them later this evening. These are by no means unique and we should expect renewed interest in them in light of the recent reopening of the Mexican skull studies.
Seralia, it would be natural to expect Phoenician writing to appear in New England as it is commonly known that the Phoenicians mined tin in the British Isles and other examples of their writing appears all over the North American continent wherever they exploited resources for their Mediterranean clientele. Heed Wahya's advice and get a copy of "In Plain Sight" as it contains some ot the most remarkable examples of Old World inscriptions in North America ever collected. Gloria worked with Barry Fell and she is trying to finish a second book before her eyesight and health give out. A few months ago it was announced that a cave entrance near the Runestone had been found in Runestone Park near Heavener. I've been there twice and recently an informant gave me cogent reasons to return.
I also have some photos of some petroglyphic examples of Western Cherokee writing from Colorado which I will forward to PuPP for posting. Whether we should start another thread for that is up to you all. It's nice to have all this interrelated material in one place. Again, I'd like to thank PuPP for an excellent site to display this amazing material.
|Posted by: Wahya Oct 7 2004, 07:34 PM|
Not only examples, but also translations in many cases.
I was particularly interested in the chapter about the Anubis Cave.
Tex, has anyone ever checked for trace elements in phoenician bronzes to see if a point of origin for their copper and tin could be identified?
|Posted by: Mark Oct 7 2004, 07:51 PM|
| Hi Without Fear, isn't it amazing? I'm constantly picking my jaw up ever since I saw the first images from the www.Light1998.com site. I'm glad I saved them, because the site has been forbidden to me ever since.
Regarding the little skulls, thanks, I wasn't sure what they were. I've seen those Nai ri pon (sp) plants whose fruit dries up and looks like tiny people with ribs, arms, hands, feet and even tiny little fingers, real bizarre.
And thanks for the links, excellant sites. I think we have a crystal skull thread. Maybe you could add those links and that information to it for me. And I'll add the images I have in my archives.
Mitchell-Hedges Crystal Skull
Ok Tex, I inserted the partial neanderthal skull. Glad you are into this stuff too. It's cool when we all come together and provide different stuff we have come across and combine it in one place. Without the internet, we might not even have known of this information. Everything the various contributors in this thread have provided is just overwhelming. And we're still growing.
But sure Tex, additional threads are always welcomed for ANY or even ALL individual artifacts that may get hidden in the big threads.
It makes for a well archived forum also when thread titles display topics of interest; specific skulls, monuments, giants, civilizations, rocks hierglyphs on rocks etc.
We can handle the bandwith so no worries there.
We're in search of the forbidden knowledge here.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 7 2004, 10:11 PM|
I could have sworn that Ameroid is or was correct term PuPP. It was one of the four races but according to some sources, there may be as many as six. I'm not sure what the sixth is but the fifth is Australoid. Though there was some mixing between Native Americans and Orientals, this mostly occurred along the California coast. On the New England coast, there was some mixing with ancient Europeans but there was a forth and very distinct race that was here and the Polynesians were considered to be part of it. I'll have to try to dig up some information on the known skull types. What makes things difficult is that everyone who knew how to build a boat was here at one time or another.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 7 2004, 10:56 PM|
| Thanks Seralia.
Ok, let's list them.
And probably many combinations s THEY mixed the lab rats. Shhhh.
Cool, we're learning here!
|Posted by: Mark Oct 8 2004, 05:02 PM|
I did some editing on the first post of the thread and added this image below as well.
|Posted by: Prue Oct 8 2004, 06:13 PM|
|This is the most amazing thread I've kept up with in some time. My hats off to all of you, my brain is bulging. Thanks to all the contributors.|
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 8 2004, 07:37 PM|
| Thanx for putting all those skull images together PuPP.
It wasn't easy... but I was able to find what is considered to be a Native American skull that was found in a cave in Mexico and is said to be 900 years old.
I did manage to find a little bit of information concerning the native skull-type as well as differences in blood types that I found to be interesting.
BLOOD TYPE TRIVIA
Hugh Nibley pointed out that the "old doctrinaire cocksureness that once characterized discussions of Indians origins" have given way to more careful and thoroughly researched perspectives. One to note is that of Carlton Beals, who deals with blood-types. "Few Indians of South America [and even less of North America, according to Beals] have even 1 percent of B blood, and most have none at all - though this is the most important and characteristic non-O ingredient of Asia... Here is a mystery that requires much pondering and investigation." The indians, that is, who are supposed, as we all know, to have come from eastern Asia, do not have the Asiatic blood-type.  He also notes that A.A. Anguiano contests that among our Indians are also mongoloids, negroids, Southern European types, giants (Patagonians) pigmies (Venezuela and Brazil). Many anthropologists consider it impossible to trace all these types to a single Bering route from Asia. Nibley notes further that G.A. Matson says the American indian blood-types are dominant in type O. Yet some tribes, like the Blackfeet are almost 100% type "A" as are the Hawiians. Mongolains are almost exclusively type "B" which is exceedingly rare among the Native Americans. "The issue has been carefully avoided."
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 8 2004, 07:44 PM|
|I know that it might be my imagination but has anyone noticed the size and shape of John Kerry's skull and that he seems to have an unusually well defined brow ridge as is seen in the Neanderthal skulls?|
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 8 2004, 08:03 PM|
| For those who still might think that these elongated skulls were the result od skull-binding, there are some examples of the infants in egyptian artwork which indicate that they were born with these abnormally elongated skulls. This is just one of them.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 8 2004, 08:14 PM|
| I did manage to find the original image and there are three infants with elongated skulls
|Posted by: Mark Oct 8 2004, 08:25 PM|
| Great find Seralia, the artwork is amazing with the little elongated headed ones. I don't recall ever seeing that before either.
Looks like history and archaeology books need to be re-written.
I've saved the images and in time, I'll try and replace all of the images in the posts with ones on our server here in case we lose them -sites go down etc.
Hopefully others have saved the images as well. These are gems in this thread.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 9 2004, 12:22 AM|
| Here is another unusual skull which is said to have been discovered in Bolivia and was one of six skulls. It's semi-elongated but still doesn't have the same brain capacity as the other skulls.
Wrapping the head with restricting bandages is an interesting hypothesis but as I said before, the skull size is determined by the brain size and the skull will only grow enough to accomodate the size of the brain. This individual clearly had slightly a larger brain than normal but a restricting bandage, if one was used would have only reshaped the head and not caused it to grow in size. I'm also thinking that restricting the skull by such a method would also restrict blood flow and also, since Bolivia has a tropical climate, there would be a little problem of the infant overheating. There would also be a permanent soft spot at the top of the skull as well as deformaties of the sutures.
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 9 2004, 06:50 PM|
| The Del Mar skulls in the San Diego Museum of Man were dated by protein racemization by Dr. Jeffrey Bada who invented the process. They were on the order of 40,000 years old just like the hearths and barbecued pygmy elephants on Santa Rosa Island. Bada immediately came under attack by competitors who had been a little late to the patent office. In a few years Bada recanted his dates under pressure from his peers. Not the first time nor the last. Again please get a copy of George Carter's "Earlier Than You Think" for some of the best documented cases of skulls and artifacts well beyond the Clovis Barrier. Jeff Goodman is a good followup with "American Genesis". There is a wealth of hard evidence but it takes time to dig it out and put it in one place. I suggest that we start a list of "required" reading material to bring each new wave of inquiring minds up to speed in the shortest amount of time. At the top of the list should be those with physical if not irrefutable evidence such as those we have been presenting here.
I have recently learned that William Corliss' "Ancient Man" is presently available again. The Frontiers of Science series is one of the best and well documented compendiums I know of, with regard to anomalies. The books are divided by subject and cover most of the natural sciences.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 10 2004, 12:22 AM|
| Suggested reading from Tex.
by Jeff Goodman
"Earlier Than You Think"
by George Carter
by William Corliss
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 11 2004, 06:49 PM|
| Not all of the Pharoahs and ruling class had coneheads. They pretty much looked like us even as far back as 3,300 B.C. I'm thinking the coneheads were aliens. Real people had normal-shaped heads with red and blond hair.
A well preserved body from the pre-dynastic period in Egypt, circa 3,300 BC. Buried in a sand grave, the natural dryness of the surroundings kept the body preserved. His red hair have been so well preserved that he has been given the nickname "Ginger" at the British Museum where he is kept on public display.
Queen Hetop-Heres II, of the Fourth Dynasty, the daughter of Cheops, the builder of the great pyramid, is shown in the colored bas reliefs of her tomb to have been a distinct blonde. Her hair is painted a bright yellow stippled with little red horizontal lines, and her skin is white. (‘The Races of Europe’, Carleton Stevens Coon, New York City, Macmillan. 1939, p.98)
Yuya, Egyptian nobleman (Joseph II) from 1400 BC, father of Tiy (Tyre= mother and wife of Akhenaten, Pharaoh Amenhotep III). (Father of Aye whom later became Pharoah after death of Tutankhamun. .Yuya's blond hair and Caucasian facial structure have been well preserved by the embalming process; Ahmed Osman proved that the identity of Biblical Joseph was that of Prime Minister Yuya in the Egyptian New Kingdom.
Thuya, great grandmother of Tutankhamen, wife of Yuya.
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 11 2004, 07:08 PM|
| There is one more personage here, Queen Hatshepsut, who led a very intereting life!
Egyptian Female Pharaoh: Queen Hatshepsut, wife of Pharaoh Thutmosis II. She ruled Egypt after Thutmosis' death in 1520 BC. Her long blonde hair and facial structure has been well preserved by the embalming process of the time.
After the death of Thutmose II in 948 BC Hatshepsut calls on Solomon for help. This information we read on one of his statues, `I was in this land under [her] command since the occurrence of the death of [her] predecessor...'[P. Dorman, `The Monuments of Senenmut', (Kegan, Paul, London, 1988)]
But the best thing Queen Hatshepsut of Egypt brought back was the “seed of Solomon (Senenmut)”. When she returned to Egypt, she gave birth to a child, whose name was Menelik. (Note: It is thought she was the Queen of Sheba.)
After the death of Solomon, Sheba was assassinated and evidence of her existence deliberated destroyed by Thutmossis III. We are lucky to have any thing left of this time in history.
Other notes of interest:
The mummy of the wife of King Tutankhamen has auburn hair.
The mummies of Rameses II and Prince Yuaa have fine silky yellow hair. The
mummy of another pharaoh, Thothmes II, has light chestnut-colored hair.
The mummy of Queen Tiy has "wavy brown hair."
The above URL is an excellent website.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 11 2004, 08:30 PM|
I'm thinking that the elongated head elite of Egypt were half alien and half human BJ. The features of a few of them are close to being hybrid Neanderthal while others are more modern. This one is definitely an unusual one with a more modern brow ridge but still with what seems to be fewer teeth than a normal person. The teeth also appear to be twice the size as a normal person though I have seen people with teeth that are larger than normal in which one of their teeth is the size of two teeth of a normal person.
The more modern seem to grow upward and the Neanderthal-type seem to grow from front to back. This is a model of a Neanderthal skeleton with a closeup of the skull.
The pictures of the Neanderthal skeleton came from a site called MODELSPECIMENS.COM. This is their claim.
They did say anything so maybe they can be convinced to replicate a conehead skull.
This is another good one BTW.
And this is a good illustration of a normal skull and a bound skull.
Binding the head does not change the cranial capacity or volume.
Now this is a really big head.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 11 2004, 08:45 PM|
| Here is an interesting skeleton of a "deformed" Egyptian Child.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 11 2004, 08:53 PM|
| Hot stuff BJ, I see you got the image thing to work.
Pretty easy isn't it?
It sure appears to show that at one time, pale skinned blonds and red heads ruled Egypt. Perhaps the coneheads arrived and there was a great war.
Also, perhaps it explains why we have more than one LORD written about in the bible. Different races - Different species. HMMMM
Tall Red haired caucasion mummy discovered in China.
(Note: I'll add some more info and description to this later)
From Iraq (HMMMM)
I believe this one comes from Egypt and was posted earlier by one of the group here. (I believe it was Seralia. Awesome stuff!)
I wonder how many of these artifacts have disappeared since Iraqs museums were looted.
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 11 2004, 08:59 PM|
Seralia, you don't suppose? Am I hearing hoax? I sent an e-mail to my daughter who quickly dismissed the elongated skulls as a bunch of hooey.
If they are authentic, then I agree with you that they are hybrids. I think I read on the URL I gave that the Egyptian hierarchy were pretty much wiped out. It doesn't seem far-fetched that had there been an uprising, they were either killed or escaped to the subterranean regions where we know something "lives" today because of the stories that have abounded since ancient times. Worldwide.
This bears more research.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 11 2004, 09:07 PM|
| This is an ancient paleolithic sculpture that appears to show the two types of heads.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 11 2004, 09:10 PM|
Not at all BJ. I was just thinking that they, since the seem to be so good, making replicas of skeletons that maybe they could duplicate an authentic conehead skull so that it can be studied.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 11 2004, 09:22 PM|
| Now this is an interseting paleolithic piece. They call it a mammal or horse head.
The size and shape of the eyes kind of reminds me of Sumarian artwork.
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 11 2004, 09:46 PM|
| Hey, PuPP, I get to post with the big kids now.
After looking at the latest pics of skulls you posted, Seralia, I counted the teeth of the close up and as far as I can determine, it has 32 teeth, which (I think) is the standard number we have. Now for the ear cavities. We need to check up on that. Something isn't matching up there.
Then we have the "deformed" Egyptian child with only 5 ribs on each side. How many do we have?
PuPP, those statues definitely look reptilian. I used a couple of days to research blood types. There is found to be a marker in Rh O positive blood that is shared with the Rhesus monkey. This blood is found in 85% of the world's population. Then there is the RH O negative blood that doesn't have the marker, and is found in only 7% of the world's population. All O type blood can receive only O type blood, but the rest of the population can receive it...all except for the O-, which can receive only O-. It's more complicated than that , but this simplifies things.
Here is what is so curious about this O- blood. It is acknowledged that blood factors are transmitted with more exactitude than any other human or animal characteristic. It is not known from where the negative rh factor derived. ........
Then there is this about the "Blue Bloods": It is said that the Royals have blue blood in their veins. Why is becauce according to legend their blood is copper based while ours is iron based. This indicates that their bodies may be different than ours.
It is known that O- women have difficulty in pregancy because of the blood factors that destroy the red cells of the "foreign" embryo. What am I getting at here? Inbreeding. That would cause anomylies in the finished product, which may be why these strange skulls and skeletons are deformed.
An nonymous posted this on the Azazel thread when we were heavy on the trail of the number 322:
Where this started out to be an "Ancient Skull" thread, this blood factor business may have played a big part in the deformed skeletons of the children we are looking at.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 11 2004, 09:48 PM|
| Here is a skull-type that has similar facial features to a few of the conehead skulls.
They are both representative of a species known as Peking Man. The one on the left is the skull of a male and the facial bones are on almost the same type of angle as one of the last conehead skull images that I posted. The one on the right is said to be a female who had an artificially deformed head. Both skulls are estimated to be between 400,000 and 500,000 years old.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 11 2004, 10:19 PM|
| In Egypt, the people with the elongated skulls were known as the Shemsu - Hor and this is a few bits of information that I found about them.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 11 2004, 10:21 PM|
| INFORMATION OVERLOAD!!!!
Amazed again Seralia, you keep finding more of those coneheads.
Our archive is gonna be awesome. I'm gonna have to make webpages for all of these images too.
Soooo we have one group of ancient rulers of Egypt with pale skin and with blond and red hair (most likely with green and/or blue eyes)
We have Red haired caucasion mummies in China.
We have a list of todays current and past rulers whom almost all have blue eyes.
(Thread in General Discussion - "What do these World Leaders have in Common")
And we have the RH 0 negative blood factor.
(blue bloods - copper based blood vs iron based blood)
NOTE: We may have some members here with the RH 0 negative blood and we must make sure that they are not offended or for them to believe that we think they should to be burned at the stake like a witch.
"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
Now after reading and researching, it seems that those blue bloods are what rules over us today. The banks, the governments, the pope, the queen, the corporations... are all related...they are the Aristocratic 'royal' bloodlines of europe, from Rome, Greece and definitely Egypt, and most seem to have been inbred with each other for generations.
From the mummie evidence, it looks to me like Donald Trumps people have been running things since Egyptian times.
Now, the question is, are the coneheads the ancestors of the blue bloods of today?
Does it go from Egypt all the way back to Summeria? Or was there a war between the pale skinned blonds and red haired with the dark hair, dark eyed peoples?(Summerians) Which is still being waged today.
And I wonder how many species created the various different human (hominid) slaves here on earth?
Look at the various "root" races of man. Probably each one was some other species experiment. Just pondering - sorry - carry on!
BJ, I'm so glad you can post images now.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 11 2004, 10:35 PM|
The last skull with the teeth may have had normal teeth but one that was posted by JenThom could not have had a normal set of teeth due to the angle and shape of the maxilla. As for the ears, in some of the Egyptian statues, they were said to be slightly larger and pointed.
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 12 2004, 05:26 PM|
|The reptilian figurines are all from the Ubaid culture which preceded the Sumerians. They would have been contemporary with the vanished Maltese Civilization of the Goddess, which is represented there by megalithic statues of a female deity very reminescent of later Sumerian depictions of An the Mother Goddess sometimes called the Cow like the later Hathor. The Goddess in her many manifestiations goes back to the Paleolithic at least. Astarte is indeed the resurrection of a very old tradition which the Phoenicians no doubt recalled from their extremely ancient traditions. The Lebanese who are the last expression of the Phoenicians claim a history of 30,000 years. Much of Phoenician history was purposely erased by the Romans who envied their vast mercantile empire. The Carthaginians were also a Phoenician phase.|
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 12 2004, 09:34 PM|
| Thanx for the information Tex. The worship of serpents goes back a long time and seems to have taken place in many countries over the centuries.
I found some more information on the Shemsu Hor BTW.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 12 2004, 10:33 PM|
| Dang Seralia, I've been looking for the knowledge found in this thread for 2 over years.
You are really putting the pieces together.
Doesn't the word SEMITE come from Shem?
Ever since I first set my eyes on the pyramid photos of the Americas and compared them to the "step" pyramid of Egypt, I always felt there was a connection.
And this stuff about the tall, pale skinned with blue eyes advanced people really fits in with what I have seen and who were involved in my life.
Like my 5th grade teacher whom hadn't seemed to age in 30 years.
I always liked her though, even if she said on my report card that I was a daydreamer and needed to concentrate more when in school.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 12 2004, 10:41 PM|
| So now we're looking for dragons. The Dragon Court or the Ordo Draconis to be exact.
Larger Image at Link Below
|Posted by: JenThom Oct 12 2004, 11:40 PM|
| Things are beginning to make a lot of sense here. First the Shemsu people show up in Egypt and then they get chased out of Egypt by the Dragons. Of course some of the royal elite would have had to flee with them as well. And that would explain this.
You posted both of the images Seralia and I'm not sure if you noticed the nearly identical skull-type found in both the statue and one of the skulls that was found in Peru.
|Posted by: Wahya Oct 12 2004, 11:46 PM|
|The Dragon on the shield is Cadwaller's Dragon; the symbol of Wales.|
|Posted by: JenThom Oct 12 2004, 11:53 PM|
It may have been Ankhesenamun who fled Egypt but more likely it was another one of the daughters who ran off with the Shemsu. and not because of the death of Tut, but because of the invasion of the dragons, though Tut's death may have had something to do with the invasion.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 12 2004, 11:57 PM|
| JenThom, I didn't realize this until recently.
This is the 'front view' of the skull above.
Sure is an odd one.
|Posted by: JenThom Oct 13 2004, 12:03 AM|
It's known as the Red Dragon of Cadwallader Wahya and not a good dragon either.
|Posted by: Wahya Oct 13 2004, 12:09 AM|
|Posted by: JenThom Oct 13 2004, 12:16 AM|
Not really so odd PuPP. Just a little bit different.
This is an image of one of Akhenaten's daughters and her head is very similar to the skull.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 13 2004, 08:47 PM|
Both the skull and the head do appear to be nearly identical and I wouldn't doubt that the skull belonged to someone in Akenaten's family. I think that I read somewhere that one of the daughters did leave Egypt for some reason.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 13 2004, 09:02 PM|
And the pieces are still fitting together.
The Shemsu Hor were in Malta as well as Egypt.
Malta: The Skulls of the Mother Goddess
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 14 2004, 03:45 AM|
| Seralia, you got my adrenaline going! The Maltese skulls have an interesting history.
(PuPP, here is the origin of the word "Shem")
The entire article is worth reading. There is mention of the bee, which was used as a symbol by the Merovingians and 300 of them were sewn into Napolean's cape:
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 14 2004, 08:14 PM|
Yes they definitely have an interesting history BJ and so does the word Shem. I knew that I've heard the word before and I just remembered where I heard it.
Now this next part was totally unexpected.
Shemsu-Heru: An Egyptian Fraternity
By Candace Jones
Published: Tuesday, October 14, 2003
Page 1 of 1
On Howard's campus, the influence of Greek sororities and fraternities is evident. While many students know the Greek alphabet backward and forward, few are aware of the Ancient Egyptian, or Kemetic, origins of most Greek symbols. The Ancient and Noble Order of the Shemsu-Heru, a Kemetic fraternity, will soon change this conception.
Founded on three organizational principles, knowledge of self and love, community service and development, and fellowship; members of the Shemsu-Heru strive to embrace the cradle of civilization in Kemet and unveil the mysteries and knowledge of Ancient Africa.
According the organization's website, shemsu-heru.com, the founders believe in "Putting oneself in a more powerful position to change themselves and their environments through group ideological solidarity." A call to activism and a thorough knowledge of history attract members to the organization.
"We believe, armed with a unified cultural ethos, we can better address our problems in the Diaspora and on the Continent," Adrian Taylor, a loyal member of the organization, said.
Like the Greek organizations on campus, the members of the Shemsu-Heru promote togetherness and unity.
"We stand with [Greek organizations], believing and acknowledging if it were not for their works and example, we would not have the opportunity to bring our ideals into fruition," Taylor said. "We hold the original Greek fraternal and sororal movements in high esteem, but want to give the campus, the black community, and the human family at large, options as it relates to systematically learning about [African's] story under the banner of African excellence." This notion of unity seconds the motives of Shemsu-Heru: social consciousness, action and the ideas of Marcus Mosiah Garvey."
These motives have influenced the organization's Unity Forum to be held October 15, which is a call to all students who either claim to take part in the struggle or are actually living their words. Taylor says this forum triggers "...student leadership, and people who want to do a little more than wear the 'struggle' on their wrists and backs," referring to the popularity of red, black, and green wristbands and t-shirts bearing the faces of Bob Marley, Malcolm X and Che Guevara. This forum will address collective problems and transcend cultural nationalism. The forum will pinpoint issues in the Howard community as well as on an international level. Attendees are also encouraged to bring ideas and comments that complement the issues addressed.
The Shemsu-Ast is the female division of the organization. This sorority embraces females who are ready and willing to contribute the struggle.
"We are looking for men and women who want to do the work necessary to make themselves and the world a better place for the blossoming of the human potential under the aegis of fraternal and sororal association under an indigenous banner," Taylor said.
"Hopefully there are some things in this piece that can be used to awake HU," Taylor said enthusiastically, encouraging social consciousness and an answer to the Shemsu-Heru's calls to activism.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 14 2004, 08:35 PM|
| I also did some searching of medical databases to rule out any known medical condition that would be responsible for anything similar to the shape of the egyptian skulls. There is a condition known as Scaphocephaly or Sagittal Synostosis.
The above images are preoperative and postoperative and would rule out this condition as being the cause of the elongated skulls of the Egyptian princesses since their skulls are both wide and long. If their skulls had been bound then there would have definitely been a premature closure of the sagittal suture that would have made their skulls narrower than normal. In the front view skull image that was posted by PuPP the sutures appear to be perfectly formed.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 14 2004, 09:18 PM|
| This is another view of a child with sagittal synotosis.
I found this little abstract that mentions fronto-occipital deformation or skull binding and premature sagittal synotosis.
Am J Phys Anthropol. 1996 Jul;100(3):397-410.
Sutural effects of fronto-occipital cranial modification.
Department of Anthropology, University of Western Ontario, London.
Maya adult crania from the site of Lamanai, Belize provide a retrospective means of examining growth processes in the cranial vault. The Lamanai population practiced fronto-occipital deformation which is found to be significantly associated with premature sagittal synostosis and wormian bones of the lambdoidal suture. The undeformed members of the population also exhibit an abnormally high frequency of sagittal synostosis, but a significantly lower frequency than the deformed sample. It is suggested that the deforming apparatus creates tensile forces on the sagittal suture during the peak period of growth of the parietals, and that these forces might induce an adaptive response important in producing premature sagittal synostosis. The undeformed sample may have an increased congenital risk of sagittal synostosis created by their natural brachycephalic morphology in utero. The frequency patterning of wormian bones suggests a mixture of genetic and environmental causes in which tensile forces may also play a role.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 14 2004, 10:55 PM|
| Ok, the hunt is on for Elongated or Conehead Maltese Skulls.
Malta was also one of those advanced civilizations that just faded away.
I've searched thru Yahoo and there's hardly any info and NO images.
But it sure appears that this race was global and was most likely responsible for the construction of many of the ancient monuments and structures.
I just love forbidden archaeology!
HUGE Thanks to you ALL!
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 15 2004, 05:14 AM|
| PuPP, if photos of the Maltese skulls were available, Seralia would have posted them. You looked and I looked, and came up empty. From what I have read, photos and, I think videos were allowed to be taken of the big finds, but it looks like we are not permitted to see them.
Sitchen's half-baked idea that we were created by the ETs flies in the face of what's been published:
I think that what we are seeing in these conehead skulls are the ancient remains of the original half-breeds who comprised a race set apart from us. The only way this line has kept power is by draining the wealth from us and maintaining it through their armies, the power of the sword. They are truly parasites, living off the achievements of mankind. I watched PBS' presentation of the Medice popes last night. Unbelievable tyranny. Cunning and ruthless. Yet the people revered them. It reminds me of the magic word "Camelot" that held this country in awe of the Kennedys. We aren't so much enamored in this country as are the Europeans of "royalty". "God save the king!" no matter what they do. This mindset seems to have been ingrained in us since very ancient times. A certain romanticism of history has held us spellbound at times as honor has been given to these thugs. They are truly parasites living off the achievements of man by the power of their armies. A different race indeed!
It appears that we are looking at the skulls of the original half-breeds of the Nephalim. Their bloodline is running thin, so there is a big push for donors to come forth that have Rh O negative blood. Only 7% of the US population has it. Are these the unwitting descendants of the Merovingians? I don't know. Will we unlock the mystery that has kept us enslaved to this race of men for so long? Yes.
|Posted by: Wahya Oct 15 2004, 08:02 AM|
| Maltese skulls -
I couldnt get images to load on the first URL. Maybe someone on another server could get lucky. I dont know if the pics are of the skulls or not.
The 2nd URL doesnt show much detail.
The 3rd URL is a nice site about the Maltese ruins. Maybe someone will be able to chase down a link?
|Posted by: Mark Oct 15 2004, 08:29 AM|
| Hey Wahya, thanks for the help!
I had also found this site last night...
And the same thing, the 2 images do not display. Someone must have pulled the plug.
Hopefully "our friends" will soon provide us with some images.
I did find some images of the ruins @ http://www.erikparker.com and I'll make a post or thread soon.
I'll check out your third link too.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 15 2004, 10:48 PM|
| I found some material that seemed somewhat related to our quest. I don't agree with everything the author suggests, but some seems plausible and so I posted it below...
[Aryans and Israelis appear to be related as well as Indias Brahmins. ~ PuPP]
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 15 2004, 11:31 PM|
I tried almost every trick in the book to find images of the Malta skulls but no luck yet. I was able to find another mention of them though as well as mention of another race called Armenoid.
You might be right about us not being permitted to see the skulls BJ. I found this mention of them in what appears to be some sort of TV listing. 7,000 skulls are being hidden somewhere.
|Posted by: Wahya Oct 15 2004, 11:32 PM|
Then the Romans must have been midgets because thay often remarked about the size of Celts/Gauls. I dont agree with this.
My mother is scottish and welsh and the men in her family are tall and stocky. I'm one of the shorter ones at 6'5".
|Posted by: Mark Oct 15 2004, 11:58 PM|
| Seralia, I have a feeling that we'll be able to have access to those Malta skulls soon. I'll keep hunting...and thank you for your continued quest here.
I've got the genes of what I call the "marshmallow" people in me. As a child my mother always said, "you're just stocky, or husky"
I worked out for 4 hours a day as a teen to make sure I didn't turn into the fat man of the circus.
But I hear ya Wahya, the author just doesn't have it all together yet, and neither do we, though we're getting there.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 16 2004, 12:16 AM|
| Malta Female sculpture
Sure looks like primitive art to me. Like a 7 year old made it.
And it has the "marshamallow" characteristics.
We are taught that the high fat and carbohydrate foods that we eat is what causes people to become overweight or obese, but it's actually genetic.
I eat one meal a day (when I'm not exercising) so I don't end up with cottage cheese thighs.
Ok, back to the hunt.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 16 2004, 03:39 PM|
| No luck on the Malta Skulls yet but I did find what appears to be an alien skull that was supposedly discovered in the Vatican Library during a restoration project.
Then I found an image that is supposedly a plastered skull that was discovered in Jericho.
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 16 2004, 04:27 PM|
| Hi, you guys! Wahya gave us that website @gizapyramid.com which nobody could open. I asked my daughter if she would try since she has AOL. Voila! I don't know what to make of this, but one of the skulls looks like someone put a cap on it.
BTW, PuPP, you were lucky to get the sculptures. Nice going.
Seralia, that top skull you posted looks like it belonged to an ET, judging by the shape of the eye bones! I might ask, too, commenting on the post of the history of the Maltese people, how did they get all of that info without testing for DNA?
I submit the following to you because of the sutures(?)...those things that are supposed to close up in time. Seralia, you may be better able than I to explain them. Maybe they are something, maybe not.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 16 2004, 08:30 PM|
| Wahya, excellant descriptions. Glad I scrolled back up.
Seralia.... WHOA! I think that is definitely an alien skull - if it is real.
BJ, I just checked the link again, and the images still don't display for me.
Be sure to thank your daughter from us all. That was really nice of her. And thank you for posting them. I saved all of the images and will add them to my next CD backup.
Here's a couple of images of Malta.
Soon, I'll make a thread for Malta.
I'd like to have a thread for each ancient civilization possible. I've already collected a few images of Machu Pichu and am still aquiring more.
|Posted by: JenThom Oct 16 2004, 11:50 PM|
Those are really some unusual skulls and I'm not sure why one of them appears to have a cap on it but the sutures on the first skull appear to be deformed and it also appears to have been damaged while the person was still alive. It looks like a good solid blow to the side of the head with a rather large object as well as a triangle shaped indentation made by a small triangular metallic stone drill.
The second skull looks like one of those Shemsu skulls and is missing a suture and appears to be really ancient.
|Posted by: Wahya Oct 17 2004, 12:06 AM|
| I think the triangular mark on the skull looks like a glancing blow from an arrow or spear point.
I have hunted with stone tipped arrows and spears and seen a grazing wound to a bone at an angle make a mark similar to that.
I'd need a better look though. An arrow fired from a high poundage bow will often splinter the bone when it hits due to the spin of the arrow in flight.
But at such an old piece of bone though...who knows?
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 17 2004, 12:26 PM|
| While looking for those elusive skulls, I reread an earlier article that has this to stay about skulls with holes in them, which explains in part as to why this should occur:
|Posted by: Mark Oct 17 2004, 05:27 PM|
| Here's a couple of images from a Brazilian site that Thessa shared.
Remember the movie Predator with Ahhhnold?
This skull appears fairly old and calsified
This one below, to me, resembles a grey.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 17 2004, 05:41 PM|
I played around with the image a bit and it does appear to be a wound consistant with a prolectile weapon Wahya. Not only that but it also appears that the person was struck in the left side of the head. There also does appear to be some deformation of the sutures possibly as a result of binding. However, neither skull seems to have a saggital suture which might indicate that they are of the same or similar species.
This is a top view of a normal human skull and all the sutures, including the saggital suture, can clearly be seen.
Even chimpanzees have saggital sutures.
And so does this skull of Homo heidelbergensis. Both Heidelbergensis and Neanderthal have similar skulls with a bigger frontal bone than a normal human skull BTW. Heidelbergensis lived about 800,000 years ago and had a much smaller skull than neanderthal and this one had a 1300 cc brain capacity.
Some of the non-Egyptian elongated skulls almost seem to have characteristics of heidelbergensis which is quite interesting but the majority of the elongated non-Egyptian skulls appear to have Saggital Sutures.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 17 2004, 05:47 PM|
Now that bottom skull is really frightening PuPP but has a similar skull shape as the elongated skulls and doesn't appear to have any sutures. Especially the saggital suture. I wouldn't say that it resembled a gray but I was watching a documentary on UFO abductions on the History channel and one of the aliens that were depicted had a similarly shaped head with the same type of narrow protruding jaw.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 17 2004, 06:10 PM|
| I almost forgot about this skull which belonged to Herto man or Homo sapiens idaltu. They discovered this type of skull in Ethiopia and this skull in particular has a brain capacity of 1450 ccs which is slightly larger than a normal human skull. Believe it or not... this skull is 160,000 years old.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 17 2004, 06:56 PM|
| I found a copy of a report concerning the daughters of Akhenaten that is quite interesting.
Mansoor Amarna Collection
Dr. Reiner R.R. Protsch Report
From the J.W. Goethe University, Frankfurt/Main, Germany
|Posted by: Mark Oct 17 2004, 07:12 PM|
| Compare these two images "allegedly" from an interview with a living ET or Biological entity and the skull from the Brazilian website.
|Posted by: Wahya Oct 17 2004, 09:39 PM|
(It was aliens, man!)
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 17 2004, 10:07 PM|
The skull type is nearly identical in both of the images PuPP. I almost forgot about that "alien" interview.
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 18 2004, 05:37 AM|
| I am breathless, PuPP and Seralia! The photos of the skulls you have found is absolutely priceless! What a treasure!
PuPP, you mentioned putting up a pinned thread for showing the megalith sites. I have some good sites for Malta and also some for Mount Nemrut in Turkey that I found while googling for more on Malta. Amazing stuff! Since I don't want to detract from the topic of this thread, I would ask your advice on where you would rather I post them. None of the sites for Mount Nemrut will allow me to copy the photos, though. What a loss!
BTW, I have some files on the Basques, but no luck with the skulls that would make for good posts.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 18 2004, 05:44 AM|
| BJ, I have 30 images archived already from Malta. Hagar Qim, Ggantija and Mnajdra - I'll make a thread soon - but I'm tired right now.
I also have some more cool images to add for Japans underwater megalith and I just posted a Machu Pichu thread last night and added Chinese pyramids to Wahyas thread.
|Posted by: trista Oct 18 2004, 08:42 AM|
|Fascinating thread guys.|
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 18 2004, 01:40 PM|
| I have spent the full day tracking down pictures of a child's skeleton, not an easy task! Seralia, you remember how I questioned that there were only five ribs on either side of the Egyptian child? That just didn't seem right to me and hung around the back of my mind until I couldn't stand it anymore. Ha. So now I present this:
It appears to me that the Egyptian skeleton is either that of an alien, or carries some other genetic anomaly that would cause only 5 ribs to form on each side. At any rate, it is rather odd. Or it could be a freak of nature.
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 18 2004, 01:45 PM|
| PuPP! Help! The above post stretches from Texas to Florida! Will you please fix it?
My screen has gone haywire. It keeps shifting to the left.
It may be caused by the huge pic of the embryonic infant. It was a normal-sized pic...then this! Oh, my.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 18 2004, 02:58 PM|
Done, I had to edit this sad smiley and it was just easier for me to use a different one, but I agree, it was a bit ugly. I may still use it as a SAD emoticon.
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 18 2004, 03:07 PM|
| That's much better! Thank you for rescuing the post so we can read it in one piece.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 18 2004, 03:15 PM|
| You're Welcome BJ.
Sometimes images on webpages have been resized to fit and when you save it to your HD you get the original full size. I've had that happen a lot to me also.
I use Irfan View to resize my images.
Its' an awesome little viewing program.
You can download it thru my http://pupp.mentalstimulation.com/puppsplace.htm
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 18 2004, 07:19 PM|
| Seralia, I don't think the triangular perforation is the result of a projectile or other weapon injury but rather is an example of trepanation which was widely practiced in the ancient world. The standard anthropological explanation is that trepanning was practiced since at least Neanderthal times to relieve pressure from blunt trauma injury. In the case of prehistoric Andean cultures this is undoubtedly true but there is another motive behind this practice. That is, to achieve an altered state of consciousness. It will not take much searching by a person of your remarkable research skills to find numerous examples of this practice as exemplified by perhaps hundreds of skulls from all periods of human experience.
The "Aryans" are first exemplified by the Kurgans who over ran the more peaceable dominions of Old Europe as soon as the horse was domesticated. Different names are assigned to various groups but essentially the horse barbarians are the Cimmerians, Scythians, Tauri, and Centaurs of Herodotus and of much much earlier times. They signal the fall of the the civilization of the Goddess who is portrayed in a most naturalistic and accurate manner in the Maltese figurine. In all cultures which must contend with high infant mortality and harsh physical condition the utmost symbol of fecudity and abundance is the well padded female form. This fact is self evident even in the present where such conditions still exist and that would be most of the nonindustrialized world.
Listen to Wahya for I have found him to be exceedingly well informed and accurate in his postings here. The Celts were by and large big people; perhaps you are confusing them with the Iberians who are considerably different people genetically from the Celts with whom they interbred to form the Celtiberians.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 18 2004, 10:38 PM|
The skull of the Egyptian child appears to be a variation of what has been called the pumpkin head skull type but then again it could also be another royal daughter. It is difficult to tell without seeing a profile of the skull.
There has been so much talk of the six daughters of Akhenaten but do you think that I was able to find a single one of their mummies? They're just as well hidden as the Malta skulls. It seems that these people were almost everywhere in the world and that skull binding was practiced almost everywhere in the world but so far not too many images have turned up.
I was able to track a group of them to central Asia in the Ferghana Valley region but no images have turned up yet.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 18 2004, 11:27 PM|
I have found quite a few examples of trepanned skulls Tex and trepanation was practiced by almost every culture that practiced skull binding and this skull dates from the Inca civilization.
Trephination dates back to the Neolithic period and in the cases of medical intervention, most of them were considerably large as can be seen in this skull.
This is another example that was discovered in Italy and is was said that there were many similar trepanned skulls found in the region with about three fourths of them having been found in males.
I did read somewhere that some of the holes in trepanned skulls in certain parts of the world were covered with some type of thin gold material for some reason that I am very suspicious of.
The triangular hole in that one skull seems to be too small to have been used for medical intervention of what appears to be a rather severe head injury and is also in the wrong place. I enlarged the hole as far as I could and it appears to be more consistant with a puncture wound with a piece of the skull driven inward on an angle on the flat side of the hole. If it had been trepanned then the hole would have been rounded and any loose pieces would have been removed.
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 19 2004, 05:39 AM|
|I must not have looked closely enough, but any shattered material remaining would certainly rule out the trepanned skull explanation. The gold covered trepanned opening most likely relates to the altered consciousness motive. There used to be an article on the web about a modern day woman who trepanned herself with a dremel tool to test the theory that release of pressure creates all sorts of sensory alterations. She ate a big steak immediately after to make up for the loss of blood she said. Morbidly fascinating to read, if you can still find it. I can't remember where I saw the trepanned Neanderthal skull but it may have been in Secrets of the Stone Age, the companion volume to Lost Civilizations of the Stone Age.|
|Posted by: Mark Oct 19 2004, 05:51 AM|
I saw that on a tv show. Man it was bizarre. She really did cut open her skull and seemed fine afterwards.
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 19 2004, 10:14 AM|
| Hi, everybody! I did some googling to try to find the possible causes of the strange skull holes and came up with some interesting articles.
According to the following reports, we may assume that the most of the holes found in skulls represent wounds, surgery to alleviate pressure, medical experiments, or torture. The process for mummification was elaborate in that organ removal was employed as well as the brain, then the body stuffed with sawdust to absorb moisture, then resin was poured into the cavities. Here are the texts and photos:
(Note: the above sounds like it was written by a high-schooler, but one who had done some research.)
Several specimens can be seen at the above site.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Oct 19 2004, 02:35 PM|
To certain cultures, the brain was more important than the body and so it was removed and given special attention as I have seen with some archaeological sites.
Up until a few thousand years ago, bodies were buried but they switched over to cremation as the method of disposing of the brain and/or body. The body was placed on an altar and the brain was removed and placed on a smaller altar. Both the brain and body were then cremated. I've seen two archaeological sites in New England where this was done. One of the sites had a large altar that was in the shape of a toppled standing stone that had a place for the brain and a place for the body. The other site had two separate altars that were composed of quartz with one of them large enough to hold a body and a smaller one beside it for the brain.
Some of the Trephination marks that I have seen show definite signs of healing so the patients were alive when the procedure was performed and lived long enough for the wound to begin to heal or almost heal completely.
This skull shows a considerable amount of healing and so the person survived the operation.
This person had a a lot of problems. He or she had five Trephinations with one that had just been performed before the person died.
This is what they found when they examined the skull.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Oct 19 2004, 02:55 PM|
I zoomed in on that hole myself and there does seem to be some jagged pieces on the right side of it so I would also have to rule out that the skull was trepanned Seralia.
|Posted by: BJ1 Oct 19 2004, 03:56 PM|
DarmonVing, glad to see you here! I read some time back that some cultures removed the brain of the deceased and actually ate it! I forget why for, but it seemed a gruesome practice to me. Wish I could remember where that subject was found. I may come up with it.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Oct 19 2004, 04:54 PM|
| I'm glad to be back BJ. There is one quote that was taken from a book called "Pi in the Sky" which was written by Michael Poynder that I read a while back which describes how at least some of the ancients treated the brain of an individual.
Some cultures did eat the brains of the dead and some rather primative ones still do. Others stripped the flesh off the bodies and discarded it or ate it but the one stone carving culture that I have studied cremated their dead or most of their dead anyway. One researcher did find evidence that they sometimes buried the bodies of warriors in some of their most sacred places so that their spirits would protect them.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Oct 19 2004, 05:40 PM|
I found a replica of a skull that was both trepanned and bound.
You can get one for under $200 here. http://www.skullsunlimited.com/trephined-bound-human-skull.html
It says on the site that the trepanning was done to relieve pressure on the brain caused by the binding of the skull.
If these elongated skulls were caused by skull binding then there should be evidence of trephination. Those skulls look pretty solid to me.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Oct 19 2004, 05:58 PM|
| Look what I found. Two plaster reproduction skulls. One trepanned and one elongated.
I wonder if the Aymara people are related to the Egyptian Amarna dynasty.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 19 2004, 05:59 PM|
| Hey Darmon Ving, good to see you back in action!
Tons more info since you were last here - my head hurts now, can someone trepan my skull? heh
I believe those who bound their skulls were trying to emulate their large skulled gods.
Ya know what simply amazes me?
Thousands of years ago, the ancients were performing these operations, yet in the USA civil war, the doctors sawed off arms and legs using bloody puss covered tools and no anesthesia. It was as if they had NO knowledge whatsoever.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 19 2004, 07:10 PM|
| I found this link in my bookmarks. It's another website with the image of the Alien? Skull that I found through the Brazilian website that Thessa showed me .
and the skeleton
EDIT: This may be a HOAX, crafted from wax or carved.
Tex or one of our excellant researchers here may be able to shed some more light.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Oct 19 2004, 07:32 PM|
| Hey PuPP this thread has certainly grown quite a bit since I last visited here and so have the list of smilies.
That is one unusual skeleton BTW. The arms are too short and the hands are too big and check out that four fingered hand.
Seralia has done some good tracking of the long heads and I might be right that the Aymara have some connection with the Amarna dynasty since Seralia did track them long heads to Central Asia. Nice job Seralia.
I found this in someone's Bolivian travelogue.
Here is some more information on the Aymara BTW.
Ahhhhhhh an Egyptian/Bolivian connection.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 19 2004, 07:59 PM|
| Hey Darmon Ving, hope you like the new emoticons.
From reading more at the Holman link above, it reeks of deception or a hoax, but I'm no expert and I didn't examine the bones in person.
I am thoroughly convinced that there are definite connections between ancient monuments, peoples and cultures from the Americas, to Asia, Africa - basically worldwide.
The question is... what happened?
Who conquered them?
A celestial catastrophe?
The evil pahana?
The white devils?
Pale face who speaks with forked tongue?
All one has to do is study history with the slaughter of the North and South American indians, the Africans, Australian aborgines, Asia, pacific islanders and now the middle east to see how cultures are brought to an end.
(Or attempted to be brought to an end - oral traditions keep them alive)
They loot the museums, burn the libraries, and destroy knowledge available to the masses, yet keep the advanced technologies and knowledge in their inner circle of secret societies.
It's why I believe the internet was given to us by an advanced "benevolent" race, to share and store knowledge and information, worldwide in the hopes it won't be lost or suppressed again.
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 19 2004, 09:37 PM|
| The Fuente Magna bowl was the one I referred that was presented to our forum by Bernardo Biados, who at that time was an advisor to the Bolivian senate but has returned to private life to pursue an academic course of study. Bernardo presented many other artifacts which contained both cuneiform writing and the odd mechanical writing of the Aymara. Most of the artifacts were in remote villages in provincial museums. There were two international internet conferences on both the Fuente Magna bowl and the Pokotia statue along with numerous other precolonial artifacts. In addition the anthropologist whom Bernardo accompanied claimed to have found basalt projectile points 40,000 years old. The French and other Europeans had not problem with the material but the U.S. anthropology community with a few exceptions refuses to grant credence to anyone outside "The Club" of U.S. good old boys. One of Gene Savoy's expedition members sat in on the conference which was held shortly after Savoy's last expedition to the Urucabamba Chachapoyas region which found more Phoenician stone inscriptions. The Mediterranean and Old European presence is found throughout South America. Caral was the first great breakthrough but the dam will soon burst if not for a major political distraction stemming from the U.S.
The Incas like the Aztecs were the last icing on the cake and the cake layers go back tens of thousands if not millions of years. I also have personal testimony from a former U.S.Air Force Reconnaissance photographer of the existence of many high tech ruins in South America particularly around Nazca, the intense interest of Air Force in them and their organized efforts to classify the information. No matter where you are, there are probably traces of that civilization literally right below your feet.
|Posted by: DarmonVing Oct 19 2004, 09:43 PM|
It was a combination of things. There were catastrophies and other problems that brought certain cultures to the Americas as well as a new blood thirsty predatorial race that basically is doing the same thing now as it did back then.
The long heads seemed to have traveled a long and winding road all the way from who knows where to Egypt, Asia, South America and finally to somewhere around America. Since I have become aware of the long heads, I have started to notice the size of people's heads and I've noticed a few that are somewhat unusually proportioned but not as long as the elongated skulls. There could still be a few of them around, and I hope that there are, but most likely they have interbred to the extent that they no longer have the same brain capacity but still have one larger than ours.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 20 2004, 10:25 AM|
For intelligent people, they're sure easy to find. I found another trace of their existence on, would you believe? ... None other than a place called Shemya Island.
This is where it is.
And this is what was found there.
I knew that I was missing something. Of course there would be a build up in cranial pressure that would have to be relieved in some way due to the binding process and the 22 inch skulls on Shemya Island were supposedly trepanned. It would be interesting to find out what their age was and whether or not they had more human-like characteristics than the Peruvian skulls because there is a possibility that the size of the brain was too large for the skull to accomodate if there wasn't a 50/50 mix. There would definitely be a problem if the Shemsu-hor interbred with the pumpkin heads. Of course even with a 50/50 mix, there could also be a problem with the build up of cranial pressure if one parent had an abnormally small skull.
|Posted by: JenThom Oct 20 2004, 12:25 PM|
|Another explanation for the trepanned skulls on Shemya is that they were trepanned after the people had died as was mentioned by DarmonVing. It would have taken them an extremely long time to have removed the brains through the nose.|
|Posted by: JenThom Oct 20 2004, 12:44 PM|
| I found something important!!!
The Amarna princesses definitely had elongated heads and if they had been bound then if the theory that trephinations(?) were performed to relieve pressure then how come ONLY SIX TREPANNED SKULLS HAVE BEEN FOUND IN EGYPT?
Of course they did remove the brains through the nose there in most cases.
|Posted by: JenThom Oct 20 2004, 01:32 PM|
Has anyone noticed this about Einstein?
I was wondering why he had so much hair.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 20 2004, 02:11 PM|
That's an easy question to answer JenThom.
|Posted by: Seralia Oct 20 2004, 02:54 PM|
| This is a good view of the interior of a normal skull that I found that clearly show the sutures as well as the overall thickness of the bone structure.
And this is a rather good image of the back of a normal human skull.
|Posted by: Tex Arcana Oct 20 2004, 04:29 PM|
| Like Darmon Ving I have become sensitized to the long skulls since I found out about them a few years ago. The long narrow skull shows up in my wife and her family due I suppose to their Comanche ancestry. The Comanche are a branch of the Shoshone who split off about 500 years ago from their cousins in the Rocky Mountains and Great Basin.
Following up on Wahya's post on the Ainu and Basques I started reading sections of a German anthropology book published in 1960 which delved into the religions of the stone age that survived among the Gilyak reindeer nomads of the Siberian Taiga. I was surprised to find how much of the Caucasoid migration by sea to the Americas had been deduced prior to WWII. American anthropologist Robert B Birdwell had proposed that the diversity of the American Indians and their languages suggested an arrival tens of thousands of years ago. The skulls from the Upper Cave at Chou-k'-ou-tien he thought were an ancient combination of Mongolian and Amurian(a primitve Eastern Caucasoid). He further stated that he believed that the first arrival of humans in the Americas had been these sea going Amurians who had begun their sea migrations in Indonesia. This was considered to be shockingly radical at time when many still held to Ales Hrdlcka's dogma that man in the Americas was only 5,000 years old and Mongolian in origin. Birdwell stated that the Great Mongol Migrations had begun only around 2000 BC and had "laid a Mongolian film over the diverse peoples of the Americas giving the erroneous classification of Mongolian to all." The discovery of the Lagoa Santo skulls had further been put forth as evidence of a very early incursion by people very similar to those of Ice Age Europe.
The preliminary findings on the Kennewick skeleton suggest that Birdwell was onto something. A linguist named Nichols stated that time necessary for the diversification of the American Indian languages far exceeded the paltry 11,800 years accepted by the Clovis First faction. Further Betty Megger's discovery of cord impressed pottery similar to the Jomon patterns in South America harkened back to Birdwell's theory.
Much of the German work on the Caucasoid migrations from Southeast Asia have long been dismissed due to the unfortunate association with the Nazi Aryan supremacy propaganda. This has been a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater for it is now becoming obvious that a diaspora of these ancient sea going nomads did take place all over the world. It is interesting to note that such vestiges of earlier ways such as the bear cults found worldwide have been rigorously suppressed by religious organizations which came afterward. It is fortunate that we still had isolated pockets of these people to learn from as late as the 20th century.
|Posted by: Wahya Oct 20 2004, 08:36 PM|
| From my thread about Ainu/Basques -
This is in reference to Japan's Ainu people, who are linked linguistically to the Basques. I think it is a potent piece of evidence in itself that hints the origins of both cultures, considering the stone age 'Venus' figurines of pregnant females found in stone age europe, Malta in particular.
There was once a stone age culture that traveled the arctic circle. They were distinguished by their fine tools, made of stone, but highly refined and polished. These tools did not have the crude look of flaked tools. They were meticulously well crafted.
If you have a globe, look at it through the eyes of a northern people.
You will see the center as the north pole and ALL else flows downwards to the south. You will see how it is much easier to travel using this reference point.
This is how the Vikings saw the world. Look how far they traveled.
Why was the bear sacred? There is symbolism in the sacred.
Any large carnivore commands respect. Ancient cultures knew this.
The bear knows how to survive harsh northern climates. It knows to hibernate and it knows where to go as the seasons dictate.
The bear knows to hunt, forage, or scavenge to survive.
In the days of the mega fauna there was a bear that was so big, a modern grizzly would be relatively small compared to it.
It's good to look at skeletons and skulls for hints.
I look at the artifacts because the mainstream scientific community can disregard anomolous bones as genetic oddities. (I don't, I love this thread lol) Artifacts are not so easy to dismiss because even if a culture copies a method, tool, or weapon from another culture, that still means there was contact between them at one time.
Now added to these weird skulls, we have related sacred imagery, artifacts, and in some cases, even language.
Added together with the artifacts, the bones and skulls form compelling evidence.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 20 2004, 10:06 PM|
I saw a show on Discovery (I think) and it tried to explain why humans hadn't migrated into the Americas (by foot) until about 12,000 years ago because of a bear that stood 7 feet at the shoulder and 14 feet tall when on its hind legs. They estimated it could run approx 40 MPH and humans would have been easy prey. It went extinct about 12,000 years ago and they hypothesized that this then allowed the foot migration across the Bering Strait from Asia to N. America.
Though I believe there's ample evidence that humans (Probably Caucasion Giants) were in Americas far longer back than 12,000 years, but the bear would have made foot travel very dangerous for the little people without advanced technologies.
|Posted by: Wahya Oct 20 2004, 11:21 PM|
You are right if you're talking about a small group of people traveling, but...
Let's say you and a buddy are in the Rockies and you encounter a grizzly.
Unarmed, you wouldnt have a chance trying to fight it off.
Armed with bows or spears, you'd have a better chance, but you might also be supper too.
Now suppose you were from a culture accustomed to hunting BIG animals like mastadons.
You'd have larger weapons and you'd know how to use 'em too. Expertly.
Plus if it was case of not only you and a friend, but also your entire tribe, a tribe experienced to hunting big animals as a way of life?
A big bear would not have the odds in it's favor.
Another facet of this is that the people we're talking about were much closer to nature than modern people. They would be more experienced with bears, even if they were smaller ones.
Which also means they'd know how to spot the signs of a bear, and how to avoid them if they needed to.
I've been close to bears before. I've had a black bear walk right up to me, give me a sniff and walk away and we got a little too close for comfort with a Kodiak in canada once. Back in Tennessee, the black bears would come up to our porch all the time.
But yeah, BIG difference between the smaller calmer black bears and the big bears like kodiaks, grizzleys and polar bears.
Imagine that huge one from the old days. Wow.
IMO, the american animal to really beware of was the saber toothed cat.
|Posted by: Mark Oct 20 2004, 11:58 PM|
| "CAN YOU DIG IT"
~ The Warriors
Yes, I can.
Do you think the extinction of the giant bear, wooly mammoths and saber toothed cats were caused by the hunters and/or a radical change in weather? (Ice age)
|Posted by: Wahya Oct 21 2004, 12:21 AM|
| I think a climate change and the arrival of hunter might have had somethingt o do with it, but I think the main cause of extinctions was the introductions of new diseases the animals had no resistance to.
Which is exactly what would happen if people from different parts of the world migrated here.
Or different animals too...