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PuPP's Theories Forum > RELIGION > Why Spirit Guides Don't Show Themselves

Posted by: Tree Hugger Sep 15 2005, 08:35 PM
Hello Seekers.

Have you ever said, if only I had proof. If only I could see visions or hear voices. But are the forces of light and love unable to visibly or audibly manifest? Or, do they choose not to for a very good reason.

If the forces of light welcomed you each morning at the foot of your bed, greeting you, blessing you and telling you what obstacles you would face that day, you would smile and embrace the day, without anxiety or uncertainty.

If the messengers from the Divine Mind, appeared and winked at you each time a person insulted you, you would wink back at them? You would have a constant reminder that you should never retaliate in kind.

If the spirits who guide you, on a subconscious level, sat on top of the television set and next to the radio, or rode in the backseat of your car, visibly assuring you that all the anxiety in the world was only a passing shadow, you would never have one moment of anxiety, fear, or dread.

But when you wake up each morning, you seem as if you are all alone. No voices are heard and no winged messengers smile and remind you that the trouble in store for you this day is sent as a lesson. No wise beings speak, announcing that the gas bill will be paid, later on by a unusual synchronicity of found money, If this were the case, you would have no opportunity, or need to develop trust in the Divine Mind.

So if you wonder why angels don’t speak to you, and teach your directly by human words, and why you are seemingly on your own, realize that you are never alone, nor can you be. Spirits come with you to earth and leave with you at death of the body, but in the between time, you must be allowed not to know for certain. You must develop spiritual sight. If you saw the spirit realms you would not need faith or need trust, as you would already have that assurance. You must use that free will given you to make choices without an outside force influencing you to choose to see the world through the eyes of love. Your love must be totally spontaneous to the situation. This is why fox- hole conversations are not made out of a free will choice, but come from the anxiety of fear. The Divine Mind gives love freely and so in turn wants to receive love freely.

So, the next time that fellow employee spreads rumors, or you stand up in anger at the television, you may wish you had a wise spirit telling you not to let events weigh heavy on your heart, but you will only hear your own voice. It is your choice to see through the eyes of love or to see as the world at large sees. You will not hear another voice except your own inner guidance. You have to walk all roads, as if you were alone, and not know for certain, beyond any doubt they exist. So, whether you take the low road of responding in kind, or you choose to exercise your love, the choices must he all up to you, and you alone.

Tree Hugger

Posted by: Mark Sep 16 2005, 01:21 AM
Hi Tree Hugger, In 2002 I heard a voice. It said I was the King of Kings -- the uncrowned king.

It claimed to be the god of Abraham.

Should I believe it?

peace2.gif candle2.gif and hearts3.gif to your path.

Posted by: spacie Sep 16 2005, 04:20 AM
used to hear a voice or two in my head also
not any more...[not lately]
the voice was not mine
the voice was not always the same
it would get my attention
or sometimes just annoying
sometimes the voice came with a video in my head

it got my attention

i would talk to 'it'

i believe you.

i just have no 'whys'



Posted by: spacie Sep 16 2005, 04:56 AM
horses are my life !
i have had several over my life...
i do not ride anymore...
i used to watch the horse races on my telly
i do not like how some horses are mistreated in racing
but, i love horses when they are running free
i could ride bareback with no hands at a gallop !


twas 1990 and my son was a few months old and i spent much of my time, i liked watching the telly

breeder's cup 1990

i also liked to try and pick the winners and was not especially talented at that

one of the races began and a small voice kept whispering in my head 'goforwand'

there was an entry 'goforwand'
she was a beauty and a winner with a heart of gold

i knew i must keep my eye on her as she broke from the gate !

the voice grew to a loud, fast SHOUT !

i watched in horror when her ankle gave way and she kept trying to run on her three legs...with her broken hoof dangling.

they put her down on the track.
i cried for days.


we are all connected...
i love horses.



Posted by: Impetuosity Sep 16 2005, 06:47 AM
Tree, you are a real blessing to this forum. Thank you for all your words of wisdom. I know I have guides and protectors around me and now I know why I can't (yet) see them. I'll keep working on learning to use my spiritual sight.


Spacie, I love horses too, and was saddened to see goforwand's tragic accident. I wish they would have saved her life instead of "putting her down." Horses can have broken legs healed, contrary to popular belief. I have seen it myself. And I believe they are sentient beings, so deserve a chance to live out their lives. Well, I won't go any further with this rant.

But I also used to ride bareback, though I always needed to hang on with my hands!

If I ever find it again, I'l share an amazing story I found once about a horse who cried...

Posted by: Tree Hugger Sep 16 2005, 06:40 PM

Yes Pupp I definitely believe you
The uncrowned king part is not clear.
I suppose it would be the message I was given. That is the only possible way for a 3rd density being to know for certain by as you always their fruits you will know them, and this goes for humans and non physical beings. You don't get good motives out of a negative source. What was the message if you dont mind saying?
Thanks for this reply and light to your journey

Hello love dancing and singing and horses. Thats a nice mix. I have never been around horses but I admire them very much.

Hello Impetuosity smileNew4.gif

Thanks for the encouragement. I always love to know I am helping out and adding to the good vibrations........have a wonderful day........(((hugs)))

Posted by: Nightshade Sep 28 2005, 10:49 PM
Spacie, I used to ride as well, although it's been a long time since I've been up on a horse. Maybe when TSHTF that experience will be useful, but at the moment having trained and rehabillitated abused horses isn't something I can put on a resume in the concrete jungle...

I hate racing...really hate it, especially considering it has the potential to be something great -- horses love to run. I used to ride several ex-race horses, and it's unbelievable how many problems they develop in such a short period of time. The psychological issues can be fixed or at least brought to a more manageable level with some love and patience, but the physical problems that arise both due to breeding purely for speed with little concern for overall health and the horses being ridden so hard in competition before their bones are fully formed can't really be overcome. A big 17hh thoroughbred called Jesse that I rode for several years spent much of his life lame, having to wear special shoes to literally hold his feet together because his hooves were literally cracking and falling apart. He lived to be 18 before his health got the better of him. He was a neat horse, we used to play tag out in the field and he would always greet me by shoving his nose at me so hard it would knock me off my feet. He'd give you this innocent look, like it was some kind of accident, but you knew damn well that he meant to do it!

sigh.gif good times...

Some of the other forms of racing are even worse, an old riding partner of mine rescued a horse who had been bred and trained as a pacer. The poor thing was too terrified to break into a trot (or any of its other natural gates for that matter), throughout her entire life she'd been beaten severely for breaking her gate, so when it was all said and done, all she could do was pace... I've seen some terribly broken horses and some incredible successes alike.

Tree, your words always have a funny way of helping me to climb out of the holes that I dig for myself when I feel like life is crapping on my head. Thank you.


Posted by: spacie Sep 29 2005, 04:11 AM
oh my..
horses put up with so much abuse..
i used to go to the sale barn and would buy a few of the worst cases...those that would end up at the killer's glue factory.
have also ridden a few ex race is hard to convince them to not RUN !!
went to a famous missouri fox trotter a special tour and this trainer/owner had young yearlings in small stalls with only one front opening to look out...with TIRES all around their stall floor !
i asked him why...he said it teaches them something or other about their FEET.
i only saw very tired young horses with lots of stress...
another similar stable in virginia had a similar method...those young horses a neurotic severly stressed animal...and they also were pumped up with all sorts of supplemental minerals.
the sport of kings

i love horses when they have unlimited grazing
can run the fields
eat good grass

those days are gone

i also boarded a 30 year old race horse
the owner told me to keep him locked up every night in his stall
my barn was old and i did not do that
i noticed he liked to remain mingling with the other misfits i had
he thrived !
he never did stop his running away with ya under saddle...

someday, i will 'have' another horse or two.

the spirit of the horse.

thanks, tree, for lettin me post here.



Posted by: Tree Hugger Sep 29 2005, 05:59 PM

No need to thank me Spacie. I enjoyed reading about the horses, in fact it tugged at my heart to think of them in the situation.
The only time I rode was was as a teenager and they say that a horse must respect you, well this one knew I didn't know what I was doing and it went just where it wanted to go and the group of other horses got further up ahead he headed out to some pasture and I was telling in every kind way to go back but he just ignored me and kept wandering around until someone finally came to fetch us back. I got the idea who was boss that day.

Love to you Spacie smileNew4.gif

Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Sep 29 2005, 11:45 PM
Hey PuPP, I found this in LOTR, it's About Strider/Aragorn/Elessar/King Elessar/The Elfstone/the Lord Elfstone (all the same person)

All that is gold does not glitter
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither
Deep roots are not reached by the frost
From the ashes a fire shall be woken
A light from the shadows shall spring
Renewed shall be blade that was broken
The crownless again shall be king.

There is a king without a crown in every great legend, it is a magickal formula because the essence of the hero is having experienced a sort of self imposed exile in the interest of the greater good, and this hero is the great king. Tolkien knew this from his studies of ancient texts and stories.

If THEY want to eliminate a hidden threat THEY have to draw the hero out of the wildwoods and into the spotlight - find the exiled hero and kill him. There are probably many many of these people alive today because of the sheer quantity of people living today. The drive does feel like you are the only one true one like this because each one has an individual and personalised task in the world. There are many tasks and each one is appointed to the one true king of that individual task. Some tasks are bigger than others, but all are essential. Elessar is the one who can say 'Namaste' - the god/divine in me recognises the god/divine in you. These days we ought to have a country club for true kings. THEY be crapping themselves in the knowledge of this because the day will come when all true kings take a stand for their people and unite whole battalions of men in their wisdom.

THEY only want economically viable sheople - not heros and kings and the deeply strong with a fire within.

I think it was a trap PuPP, I think it is a common trick to try to draw the hero/king out of hiding before the time is right.

Spacie, I have a BIG dislike of the lack of ethics and breed standards of the thoroughbred industry and although I pity them, I wouldn't buy one. Their heads are a mess, I wouldn't trust one under 18 years old and then they're on deaths door (not like breeds that can work into their 40's) and they don't do well in a paddock, and they get sick and cancers and stuff. I've seen heaps of them go through the saleyards and the same buyers get them every time. Its heartbreaking to see and I would never have anything to do with someone who breeds them, or anything to do with the whole industry. Its terrible. I don't understand pacing and standardbreds either, that seems even more @#$%ed up than normal racing, I mean what is the point? So sad.

cheers2.gif Horse will yet be our best friend. Honour the horse. cheers.gif

Posted by: spacie Sep 30 2005, 03:32 AM

francesca kelly
her story......
bout how the british slaughtered thousands of marwari horses
horses that were divine
the british then imported the inferior thoroughbred

makes my blood boil


Posted by: spacie Sep 30 2005, 04:03 AM
marWARi !!

my 'best' horse was a blue roan
a mixed breed
beautiful large space between his deep eyes
hooves that i never put shoes on
my blacksmith would come out to give him a trim
he liked how strong his hooves were !
i also had a half thoroughbred/standardbred
his granddaddy was some kind of champ
he was a hot head
would panic and rear straight up...he would go all the way over if he let his fear take 'rein'
he would pace the fence line
i had him a few years...sold him back to the arabian horse breeder i got him from
went to a channeler...who described that particular horse and said he needed allergy meds !!!????????
i did not contact the new owner and the next week she called to say he died !!!!!!
she came home to find him in one of his sweaty frenzy pacing and he went down.
she figured he had a stroke.
also knew a local horse trainer at the race track in illinois...
his methods always included lots of whipping and hitting
he told me he had horses stroke out while at a full gallop
good golley
man is so foolish

they tinker and they do not understand anything natural

oh well
not all man
right here on this thread i feel so very connected with others
who LOVE horses
and it truly is about spirits that blend
to ride......ya must be a part of your horse
not the 'boss'
i am more like the teachings of
pony gawani...a cherokee that knows horses are 'prey'

when you read about the marwari horse
i wonder.........
they won battles for their riders.



Posted by: spacie Sep 30 2005, 04:12 AM
'horses teaching people'

eeeeeeeeeeee OO !!
bareback is the best!!!!!

luv ya !


Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Sep 30 2005, 09:19 PM
Hi Spacie

I had a beautiful old boy, some sort of british heavy mix pony. He displayed what the guidedog trainers call 'intelligent disobedience'. If he ever did not want to do what I asked of him I would have to ask him "Ok then, what do you want to do. Show me". Twice he took me straight to orphaned animals hidden in the fields and refused to leave their sides, so we took them to the stables. At times I would see tears run down his face when he witnessed the neglect of his closest friend who was starving from neglect. I would feed his friend whose owner would never show up, but I couldn't afford it and the agistment manager eventually took his friend to the sales to get some unpaid money back. So sad. After my car accident my hips weren't working properly, so I sold him to a young girl because I'd heard that her family were going to go to the sales to buy her a horse. I was afraid that they would get something drugged up to the eyeballs and she would get hurt. They knew my horse already so I offered him to them and they were happy with him. I regret the sale, but it was best for everyone. I don't hold onto things when I can see a better outcome with someone else. It is nice to have people here that understand these things. hugs.gif

Posted by: Nightshade Sep 30 2005, 10:00 PM
That's so sad about the foxtrotters sadoriginal.gif How these people are allowed to even come NEAR an animal is beyond me, let alone how they can run these large stables and breeding operations while practicing such cruelty.

The first horse I fell in love with also weaved like a maniac. She was a mixed breed called Nutmeg with a beautiful coat to match her name -- kind of a mix between bay and buckskin, with a blaze that went crooked and ran off the right side of her face. She was also blind in her right eye. She was NOT born that way, it was what her previous owner had done to her, and she was such a mess that her owner literally gave her away for free to the stable I was riding at. Out of the frying pan and into the fire, the owner of that stable later turned out to be psychotic and abusive as well.

I was 8 and had been riding for about a year when they had an influx of new students and not enough school horses, so I was given the challenge of riding Nutmeg, who had been pretty much running wild in the pasture for months as no one knew what to do with her. Poor thing was absolutely terrified, under saddle your choice of gates was either a standstill or bolting and bucking. It never seemed to occur to anyone else that whipping her harder wasn't going to make her behave better.... Once I got her going, she was a joy to ride, as long as you were only turning left! She wouldn't turn to the right because of her blind eye. After a couple years of riding her, they were able to use her as a school horse and put beginners who had never even been near a horse on her back. They were all astonished, but it wasn't rocket science, or any great riding skill that I had (although I did have to learn very quickly how to stay on a bucking horse, and ate a LOT of dirt in the process!), it was just a little bit of love and gentle determination. She never did stop weaving though.

There were a few good years and then the owner, who was already a little "off" and not a very nice person, ended up having a complete breakdown, stopped feeding the horses, LOCKED them in their stalls with padlocks (not just the school horses and her own riding horses, but also other peoples' horses that were being boarded there.) and all kinds of other crap that I heard about from other people who were boarding there long after I had to leave. Chasing down the owner with a dressage whip is a quick way of becoming unwelcome at a stable, but I couldn't just sit there and watch her beat any horse over the head with a pitchfork handle, let alone my favorite horse, let alone the fact that she was being beaten because someone was having a hard time getting her tacked up while she was weaving in her stall...

On the bright side, she was eventually shut down by the humane society, but I don't know what ended up happening to all of the horses.

Sorry 'bout the long rant, I think I got a little lost somewhere along memory lane.

People who need to be the "boss" of their horse are missing the point -- it needs to be a partnership. I hate seeing when people think of the horse more as a vehicle to do their bidding rather than a living being, or even worse, people who see the horse as a living being yet feel that "breaking" them and forcing them to bow to their will gives them some sort of power. I've always had the best success by focusing on building trust and mutual respect before I even begin to worry about whether or not the horse is doing what I'd like it to be doing or not.

Man, do I ever miss riding right now!

Posted by: spacie Sep 30 2005, 11:21 PM
it's memory lane for me, too.
when i got my first divorce and had to leave my 4 year old daughter in the custody of my hubby's parents...since, i was homeless and jobless...what helped me sleep every night...was remembering riding my first horse that i got to train when i was around 10...her slow canter was so soothing and we would do that for miles...recalling her rythm[sp?], made the whole world seem safe again !
VPF....i liked to sell my horses and ponies to others that needed their company.

i do have a funny story...
my last mare had alot of personality.
i bought her an ex-rodeo quarter horse....he had been in a trailer accident and broke his leg. because he was only 6 and a good speed horse...the owner had his leg 'fixed'. but...he was stall bound for so long...and got his muscles 'tied up' when they let him out finally.
so..i got him
he had spent most of his life stall bound.
he was a large horse...and did not know how to roll over !!!!!!!!
my mare loved to roll over many times...and one day, she kept dropping to the ground in front of cody and rolling. she would get up and down & roll right in front of him !
cody watched.
after a long half hour...cody buckled his legs and dropped.
it took forever...but, he finally managed to do an awkward roll !
it was so kewl...cody then practiced for days.
he was in heaven.
he could now scratch his own back !!

thanks...for the memories.
my hips are not so good anymore, either.
just age and babies knockin a hip outta socket.
oh well...
he he
maybe someday !!

lots of love,
[love is the key to horses...and some grain !]


Posted by: Nightshade Oct 1 2005, 01:50 AM
Those are the kinds of memories that I hang on to when times are rough as well. I used to compete in 3-day eventing, and that was always fun, but at the end of the day it was always the quiet times that meant the most. It's always a safe place to go back to.

I rode a quarter horse called cody for a while smileNew4.gif This Cody, however, was an absolute expert at rolling, particularly in the mud. It was amazing in the summer, when the mud dried up, to see this scruffy brown horse transform into a sleek pale palomino.

Simple pleasures...

love, sweet feed and potato chips!

Posted by: Nightshade Oct 1 2005, 02:29 AM
OMG! I just found Nutmeg!!!

user posted image

That's a terrible picture of her though, I've got much better ones floating around somewhere in my mom's basement. Late teens or early 20' does time ever fly, I still remember her as being young and green.

That just made my day, month and year, finding out that she's okay (and a "very good ol' girl" at that!). I was looking for something completely different when I stumbled across the name and decided to check it out with "no, it couldn't be..." in the back of my mind.

Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Oct 1 2005, 06:19 PM
This guy is amazing - Monty Roberts - I bought some of his videos at a market stall a while ago and they are awesome. His natural horsemanship educational videos are all about working with horse psychology instead of human psychology.
This is the contact information on the back of the video covers:

Monty & Pat Roberts Inc.
P.O. Box 1700, Solvang, CA 93464
Within US. 888-U2-MONTY
Outside US & Canada (805)688-4264
Fax (805)688-2242

I just wish I'd gotten better copies. I only paid $10.00 for the full set (that would cost hundreds at the saddlery) and the sound is off, but I can still make out what he's saying. My friend who likes horses but doesn't know diddly-squat, wanted to watch them with me fell asleep through them and as a result still says "they're just like big dogs, see they like this" while he gives them a big ol' thumpy pat on the neck that makes a hollow sound and doesn't understand why I have to walk away when he does it pullhair.gif - PISSES ME OFF!!! Anyway, if anybody is interested, Monty Roberts is great. thumbsup2.gif

Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Oct 1 2005, 06:46 PM
Wow, amazing Nightshade!!! She is very pretty, and in good condition too. Its nice to hear happy news like that.

Pity about all our wonky old hips hey? lol.gif .

One day we'll need to go back to the horse life. One day when TSHTF. If we don't leave 3D behind first that is. Have an avenue open that leads back to horse.

I hope you've all kept all your gear. I like to have a set of brushes and lead ropes, halters bits of each size and a range of girths in your pack along with old 100% wool blankets (need them to sleep in when they're not under your saddle).

Has anyone seen that movie "The Postman" with Kevin Costner?

That will be MagIndi's time to shine. Hail to the one who tends Horse's feet!!!

I have to get out of Sydney. Can't travel to work anymore anyway, so I hope my employment matter is sorted out SOON. I'm getting very nervous here. sadoriginal.gif

Posted by: Nightshade Oct 1 2005, 10:45 PM
Monty Roberts is awesome, I read The Man Who Listens To Horses back when it came out and it opened up an amazing level of communication. I was already learning a lot from the horses in my life before that point, but afterwards began to develop a whole new level of understanding of the horses, of myself and of friendship. In retrospect, I think it's safe to say that it affected not only how I dealt with horses, but people as well, particularly the way in which very subtle actions can have a profound effect. I haven't seen any of the videos, but would like to get my hands on some of them one day.

Unfortunately when I left my parents' home, I did so with nothing more than the clothes on my back and everything I had left behind was sold or thrown out, including all my tack, lead ropes and brushes. Looks like when the day of the horse returns, I'll be riding bareback for a while! Good thing I used to practice riding without saddle and bridle out in the field, not to mention one of my early instructors who took away my stirrups for an entire year and had me ride hands free with the reins tied in a knot to keep them from being stepped on for months.

I hated it at first, but it taught me early on to view the saddle and bridle as aids rather than necessities (and to keep my heels down!!). Actually, it taught me early on that many things in life, not just with horses, that we consider to be necessary aren't so.

I still wouldn't want to ride a high withered horse bareback for miles without at least some padding though, my crotch is getting sore just thinking about it blinkNEW.gif

I've seen the postman, thought it was quite good smileNew4.gif

Ah yes, farriers will be in high demand, probably even more so than they were before the age of the automobile now that we've bred much of the hardiness and resilience out of our horses. I can't wait to see a day come when true skills and work ethic become more meaningfull than stupid buzzwords on a resume that you feel embarassed to add, but can't afford to leave out because too many once sensible and thinking people have become hollow idiots and then placed in charge and taught to seek out and produce more hollow idiots... grrr..

ahem.. I seem to have a little Mars in my sign...

Try not to get too nervous about things. Feels a little funny saying that considering I've been a nervous wreck lately, but then I've had a long reputation for having good advice but never following it myself. And being a nervous wreck certainly hasn't done me any good or made my situation any better! Have faith that things will be alright, there's no doubt that these are dark times for many of us right now, but the dawn is to come.

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that this world is not static. Nothing ever stays the same as it was. The same goes for the dark times and troubled waters of the here and now.


Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Oct 2 2005, 02:34 AM
Hi Nightshade

I like that title of yours, "Day of The Horse", sounds like a good name for the day of TSHTF. It conveys all that horse is about, love, hope, endurance, mercy, compassion, servitude, nobility, ethics, and all things that good beings hold dear, reminds us that there is a way, and that will be key to light winning the age which emerges after that day.

The Man Who Listens To Horses is going to be my next book purchase (I've just decided), so next time I go to Horseland I'll look for it. The videos probably only give a fraction of the information in the book.

I did that no stirrups lesson too, but only for one day. I was used to riding bareback anyway and the teacher was amazed when he told me to rise to a trot without stirrups on my first lesson with him and I did. I found it a bit amusing, not because I was able to do it, but it had never occurred to me to bother with rising without stirrups when I wasn't bumping along anyway, I could stick in place ok. I never went without reigns though, I tried not to use them a whole lot, but never went without them, never did many professional lessons, never spent much time in the arena.

Speaking of seats, VIGGO MORTENSEN - aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! blushNEW.gif Have you seen that man on a horse? shock.gif He sits like a ROCK!!! OMG!!! What a seat that man has!!!!! Pity he smokes, I can't stand cigarettes (If you're reading Sir, please give it up, we actually do care, you put the light of the Great King before our eyes, and I know you are against the war for oil and all things cowardly, so please please please be healthy. Oh yeah, and Blessed Be Sir in all that you are) - well, blushNEW.gif couldn't blame a famous man if he had someone scanning the internet to see what people are saying about him and I hope he is prepared for The Day of The Horse too. Needless to say, a rather large image of Aragorn graces my living room wall. Sort of went off on a tangent there didn't I laughspin.gif

You'll do ok bareback for a while, just hold onto any pure wool blankets (to sleep in when you're not riding) and aquire or make a circingle winkNEW.gif . Halters are cheap and they pack away really small, just get a set (pony, cob, full) and keep them with some lead ropes in your 'Day of The Horse' kit. It won't take up much space.

DOWN WITH IDIOT FACTORIES - I can't stand all that office crap and resume tweeking and job applications and not seeing a product for my efforts and management techniques and bloody birthday cakes, holy hell those disgusting birthday cakes with the fake cream and waxy chocolate and plasticky cherries, it wasn't the sugar making me shake and wobble for hours afterwards I'm sure, and womens magazines on the coffee table and being in a confined space every day with people who think that these things make them successful or important or some such crap either. That is a rant I could carry on for hours (so I'll be merciful, and I won't). It took me thirteen months away from work for my stomach to calm down a bit (with the help of sedatives) and catch up on lost sleep and to clear my head enough to start really feeling some worth as a person while not moving bits of paper again headbanger.gif, its horrible, they were horrible, they were so afraid to rock the boat that it cost lives and I couldn't let them carry on costing lives... cry.gif it nearly cost the lives of my friend and his whole family. So alone, so afraid, so many nightmares, weakness results, invisible hands grabbing me at night, paralysed, hear the engines, feel needles...

I'm getting stronger with my will and spirit now, but if I was still in THAT office I'd be PUKING daily by now as well as the stress adding to my old mva damage pain. Its a dangerous deception that people play with when they think they are "earning a living", they are earning money, but that won't earn them a life. Not now, not on that day, not ever. Only making a life makes a living, making money is a parlour trick, ssssssmoke and compact mirrorssssss, sssso to sssspeak snake.gif. Good grief I do go on...

I agree with you that these times will pass. I've just had a hell of a decade and although I am conditioned to stressful circumstances, the idea of the next lesson, the next 'grading' experience being built on a foundation of what I've experienced so far, makes the next lesson/grading look really hard. I never feel up to tests, but hey, if it doesn't kill ya... Right? I tells ya, being "purified in the fire and made white" (biblical reference) - that seems to be referring to the effect that a consciensious life has on the hair follicles hugs.gif.

Hey Spacie waving.gif , its your turn again. I'll just keep busy for a while knitting.gif.

Posted by: spacie Oct 2 2005, 06:36 AM
i am soooooo happy !
i am outside in the fresh air and we are watching some horses in a nice hilly field...

that is what reading this thread is doing for me !!

and my thoughts want to respond to everything that was touched here...


i am getting older and my body hurts...
the last move i made...2 + years ago...when i had to sell my house and 25 acres...two horses...all my saddles.
he he
i KEPT a few bridles and lead ropes and brushes !

it is great to find out one of your horses is still alive and hopefully, well.

i don't know how the future will feels like all will reach a breaking point.

right now, my head is pounding with some sinus attack.
they chemtrailed here all day yesterday.

'endangered' comes to mind.

oh yes...
my first mare had the smoothest withers...we won first place a few times in pleasure type classes at local horse shows.

i have a video of monty also...
he could help kids, too.

VPF..i must also find a job...and i dread it daily.
i have not 'worked' for 20 years !
my ex did let me be a stay at home mom and since he traveled alot, i needed to be at home to take care of the animals and kids.

my last job was as a home health aide...where i would go see the elderly in their homes and help them.
i have friends that do that now...
gas is an issue.

best wishes to all.......
he he

i am shooting for all of us going to the 6th dimension !
horse spirits too !!!!!



Posted by: Nightshade Oct 2 2005, 06:41 PM
*butts out cigarette*


I know I need to quit, but it's my last vice that I've been hanging on to. Been waiting for a less stressfull time when I can deal with that and that alone.

Oh lord those terrible, awful, disgusting office birthday cakes... I just about hit the floor when I read that and now Laz is looking at me like I've completely lost it wondering what's so funny. He's never worked in an office setting, so he wouldn't understand about the birthday cakes. I always felt that those awful things were a perfect representation of the types of people you find there lol2.gif

I hate that we're all expected to spend our lives chasing dollar signs. I hate money. I hate the misery that money brings. I hate being told that I'm lazy, have no drive and am expecting something for nothing because I don't want to devote my life to the pursuit of money! I don't expect something for nothing, I expect something for something, whether that something in return be material, a kind word or a feeling of fullfillment. "Earning a living" in this Day Of Lies often means giving your all for nothing as the cost of living goes up and up and up and salaries go down and minimum qualifications go up (4 years of university and 3-5 years of directly related experience as a MINIMAL requirement for a menial job paying minimum wage made me laugh when I first saw it, chuckle the second time and damn near cry when I realized they were ALL like that.) I would like to go back to school to get my bachelor's in technology, but I need to eat and pay the bills in the meantime! Now maybe all of that would be okay if I had a sense of doing some good for someone, but most "jobs" these days aren't really essential skills, and aren't designed to make the world better, their designed to feed the elite. And we feed them, or they starve us. I have plenty of drive, but it's drive for a better way. They hate that. They only want people who have drive for THEIR way. THEY want marketing drones and "team players" in the office and trendy gossiping airheads in their stores and restaurants and mindless grunts in their warehouses. I was hopefull that maybe it was just offices that were completely messed up but since I've been looking for pretty much any kind of work that doesn't involve taking my clothes off, it's dawned on me quickly that everything is fucked up. It's kind of funny how finding a job is easily 10 times harder than working... Aaaaargh!!!

Age of Lies...honesty is a punishable offence these days. I have never been lied to by a horse.

I had a nice mix of formal lessons and free riding to bomb around, the two later went hand in hand. I'd built up a reputation as a pretty good rider and have never owned a horse to call my own, so finding someone willing to lease to me was never a problem, be it experienced riders who didn't have the time to give them the attention their horse needed or over-ambitious kids with well meaning parents who had bought them more horse than they knew how to handle (a big 4yo Dutch Warmblood gelding that I leased from a 10 year old girl who only had a few months of riding ponies under her belt comes to mind. Her parents wanted to get her an athletic horse that she wouldn't outgrow and could compete with! It never occured to them that he would behave differently than the school ponies, and this poor girl was scared and frustrated and her parents were upset because she didn't want to ride her new and expensive horse and they couldn't figure out why!..). Being an eventer was useful too because I wasn't confined to any single discipline.

Will definitely have to replace some of my lost gear... I can make out alright without much of it, but it certainly does make life easier, and I don't think that Laz has even been on a horse before, so throwing him in the deep end after TSHTF and hoping that those Hungarian horsemanship instincts kick in might not be the best idea!

I sent off an email to Nutmeg's owner, hoping to hear back smileNew4.gif I'm glad she's doing well, unfortunately I've been finding more information on some of the others I've been wondering about, and many of them aren't with us any more. /knowing is better than wondering I suppose.

Watching for new beginnings and dreaming of horses....

Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Oct 3 2005, 06:19 PM
Sorry to hear about your battle with cig's Nightshade. I've never been a smoker so I can only try to imagine the difficult situation that puts you in emotionally as well as for your health. I do wish you the best with that battle hugs.gif . My father's wife has recently found out that she has lung cancer and its horrible even though they caught it early. She hadn't smoked for years, but even after winning her battle with the addiction, the poisons caught up with her. sadoriginal.gif I hope that your life situation improves so that you have the peacefulness and space you need to take care of that. dove2.gif

I'm hoping to get myself into a kinder more sensible industry soon. I'll have to get work somewhere since my leave ran out and my workplace says they don't have a suitable position for me. My union and solicitor both say not to resign whatever I do, and my workplace isn't getting rid of me, so I'm stuck and will only be able to do casual jobs here and there within medical restrictions while on leave without pay. They really love to make life as hard as possible, specially if you have the audacity to fail to stop someone in a 4wd from damaging 'their production machine' (my body!!!). SSssssuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccckkkkkkkkssss!!!

I've been taking my friend to horse sales and properties, getting him near horses and the people who handle them (sometimes a strangers words sink in where mine don't) to get him learning the ground work. Stuff like "Never pull on his head, he'll pull back and get head shy, if he pulls back, let out some rope so there is no resistance" and "If his ears go flat against his neck its because he's expecting to have them bitten off for what he is about to do" and "See when his head goes down and the middle of his back goes up - that's called 'collecting' and it's a tightly coiled spring, his back feet will let the power out" and "see that hip twisting every time that foot goes down, that's bad, she has hips like mine" and "If it won't come near you in this little pen you've got buckley's of catching it in a field and you can't ride something you can't catch", things like that.

That way he'll at least have a proper approach and will understand the horse language in case there is no time for lessons before TSHTF. If I'm not there for whatever reason, he'll know which horses will be reliable and which will be weak or dangerous. I can only hope he ends up with a wide eggbutt snaffle bit in a middleaged mouth when that day comes. mutley.gif I picked up a good bridle for him at a garage sale (will fit a horse big enough to carry him) at 10% of what it would have cost new, so I hope we don't get separated too long in any mass panic. Next week sometime I'm going to sit him down with that bridle and a jar of leather conditioner and make him take the bridle apart, clean it and put it back together. That will be good diversional therapy for him in between his days of testifying against his nephew in Supreme Court (finally, no more adjournments wackoNEW.gif ).

Don't you just love those well meaning parents who buy the best of the best of the best for their beautiful elegant little darlings? lol.gif They scare the willies out of me. Every time I see them riding my brain goes into overtime trying to remember everything I learned in the St Johns First Aide Course. Its way to far to the ground from the back of a Warmblood. My friend asked me last week "What is a Warmblood" and I said "Its one of those expensive designer breeds. There are warmblood and coldblood horses, its supposed to be a structure and purpose classification, but someone crossed all sorts of things and called it a Warmblood and put a huge price tag on it". He said "I don't want one of those" (thank goodness he doesn't want one of those!!!), I wouldn't want one either, too big for me, I'm just a common paddock hack. lol.gif Your lessons would have come in very handy with that young one you leased. Fancy putting a 10 year old child on something like that, and how did they get all that money (what kind of job pays so much with so little brain) to buy and maintain a Warmblood for a 10 year old child with brains in the condition theirs were obviously in? That poor child, she must have been devastated and had her confidence completely crushed! I hate seeing things like that happen.

I hope Nutmeg's owner tells you everything you want to know. Maybe you'll be invited to visit, that would be nice.


Posted by: Nightshade Oct 3 2005, 09:16 PM
What really miffed me about the Warmblood situation was that the girls parents were angry with ME. When they leased him to me they had this idea in their mind that because I was an eventer who rode competitively, I was going to take him out, tear up the X-country field and jump in the grand prix and win lots of trophys.

Instead I halter broke him properly (it's amazing how many horses, even experienced show veterans, haven't been properly halterbroke. If a 10 yr old cannot lead him with a gentle touch and ask him to do simple things like lower his head, he is NOT halter broke. It's disturbing how many people think that the fact that you might be able to, with some muscle, drag a horse around on a lead line means they're halter broke!) I taught him ground manners and to respond to light pressure and body language. I taught him that plastic bags and clippers and trailers didn't have to be scary, awful things and neither did the bridle - he was extremely headshy, probably due to having the halter and bridle forced on him, and the pelham bit they were using on him certainly didn't help! A 4 yr old horse shouldn't have a hard mouth! He was wonderfully forward going, which is a beautiful thing when you're a relatively experienced rider whose main focus is dressage, but terrifying if you're a 10 year old kid learning to ride. It certainly didn't help him that most kids learning to ride, especially when scared believe that pulling hard on the reins is the brakes, and that pulling on this rein or that rein doesn't steer the horse like a bicycle. If you never release the pressure after he's responded correctly, he thinks he's done something wrong.

They were actually kind of pleased when I started teaching him proper carriage though, even if they couldn't understand that he wouldn't go round and on the bit for their daughter not because he didn't like her, or because (I love this one) "I trained him to only listen to me," but because she didn't know how to tell him what she wanted him to do.

Taking him out to shows just to let him have a look around and watch his stable buddies compete was always lots of fun, no pressure and plenty of people to tell him what a handsome boy he was! I remembered when I'd started riding, my teacher had recently bought a young warmblood and would bring him along to almost every show we went to, just to watch. When he got a little older, she would occasionally take him in some open classes with all the kids and ask the judge not to judge her, it did wonders and he never batted an eyelash in any sort of competition or environment, even when the sanest and "bombproof" ponies where freaking out.

I've always liked warmbloods, but even an older well schooled warmblood can be scary to a young kid with little experience. Then add into the mix this horse's very young age and lack of basic schooling... If you ever want to see the true meaning of having your head bitten off, try telling people like this that their little angel would be happier hacking around on a lazy paddock pony than on a horse she's afraid of. He was actually a very nice horse to work with, but he needed a calm hand and someone who could tell him "I will teach you, and it's good to listen to me because it's fun, and my decisions will always keep you safe and healthy." Competition should be something fun that you do with your friend to get out and try for goals together, never the sole purpose of your relationship.

I never had my own horse because my mother was a sort of hybrid of these types of parents. She never went off to buy me a big expensive show horse, but she'd always said that IF she were to ever buy me a horse, that's the only kind she would ever consider paying for, and on my own I've never had the financial means to buy and keep a horse. Wasting money on a one-eyed Nutmeg or any of the other "imperfect" horses I fell in love with over the years was absolutely out of the question, so I ended up doing a lot of free-leasing, which in itself was great because I got to meet and work with all kinds of horses.

So even though the warmblood parents made me want to stab myself in the eye with a hoof pick, it was awesome to have the opportunity to school a young horse who had so much potential from the ground up. smileNew4.gif

Thanks for the support regarding the cigs, one day I'll quit. All this talk about horses and remembering those good times is really helping me to center myself and calm down, and when I'm able to do that life and the world around me never fails to get better. I can also see the effects on my man, who'se been shall we say less than pleasant to be around these past few weeks lol2.gif

That's good that you're showing your friend the ropes around horses, he'll need to know what to do! Even when nothing's hitting the proverbial fan, it's good experience especially in stressfull times. Those quiet nights of cleaning tack are some of the calmest moments I've known.

Still waiting to hear back from Nutmeg's owner, even if I can't make the trip over to the island to visit her I'd like to at least get some more recent pictures of her. That little horse taught me so much.

Looks like we're all on the job hunt, so good luck to everyone. Try not to get an ulcer! bricks.gif

Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Oct 3 2005, 10:53 PM
"...make me want to stab myself in the eye with a hoof pick" bustingupNEW3.gif I know that feeling! And "...trained him only to listen to me" headbanger.gif Now I'm laughing lol2.gif

You got it right with the bicycle observation. One of the really big problems that kids have with horses is that they learn to ride bicycles first (whilst daydreaming that their bicycle is a horse), and the position you sit in on a bike is anything but balanced, so it is natural for a kid to lean way too far forward with their legs all bent and their feet behind the girth, so the horse just keeps going forward, faster and faster. When that happens the kid doesn't feel safe enough to lean back because that position is unfamiliar to them and the big horse won't stop moving long enough for them to learn to lean back. Its a very difficult situation. When you add to that the fact that on a bicycle the strength of your arms and hands are what keep the front wheel in control and hence keep the bicycle upright and that the pressure on the handlebars is never realeased and you have one very messed up riding style.

I hope that Nutmeg's owner does send you some new pictures. Its nice to be thinking of something other than my messed up situation for a change. flowerNEW.gif

Posted by: Nightshade Oct 4 2005, 05:37 PM
Heh, I guess from a human perpective, leaning back and relaxing is about the last thing that should come naturally when a horse is being a bit strong.

I'd always had exactly the opposite problem when I was learning, partly because the only time my anxiety wasn't through the roof as a kid was when I was out riding, and partly because Nutmeg was one of my early riding experiences. She had a VERY strong buck (must have been the mustang in her) and being tense or leaning forward would immediately result in kissing the dirt.

So, while our instructor would be trying to convince about 4 other kids on ponies charging around like lunatics that they should relax and lean back, I'd be hearing "For Christ's sake Nicole, she's not a Lazy-Boy recliner!! Stick your boobs out!" (at 8 yrs old, I thought this was about the funniest thing anyone, anywhere had ever said)

Still, it's much easier to learn to sit up straight than it is to try to force yourself to relax. I was always more interested in teaching horses than people, but not teaching beginners how to handle horses on the ground often means being run over in the hallways! Consequently I also ended up teaching some of the very, very basics of riding to a few new students, and the first thing I'd always have them do out on the lunge line was to pretend that they were a sack of potatos and just feel and get used to the way the horse moves under them.

Heh heh...I'd see the regular instructors absolutely gritting their teeth wanting to immediately fix the kids' slumped over riding positions, but they understood what I was trying to do and never said anything smileNew4.gif

That was about it for my teaching career though, sack of potatos and taking the odd lesson out on the trails and horseback tag.

Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Oct 4 2005, 11:07 PM
Those kids you taught were lucky to have the opportunity you gave them, to just go along with the motion of the horse and get a feel for the natural paces and balance of the horse. That's important stuff to be familiar with, just like all that ground work, and it has to be experienced to be understood. Its all very nice to have good posture, but knowing which 'feel' through a muscle group underneath you is going to result in that almost unexpected lurch two feet to the left is also important (scarey plastic bags and snakes and yellow paint...) and sometimes you can't learn that through the thick wedgey knee pads of a $3,000.00 Bates Olympia Dressage saddle - I wouldn't even know what its like to sit in one of those lol.gif .

A nice long slow walk for a few hours with some little suggestions and observations does wonders for an absolute beginner. Its a pity that most paying students are bombarded with every riding technique straight up and have no time for getting familiar with the animals. I guess that's the fault of the 'time is money' way of learning things. Oh well, times will change hugs.gif .

Posted by: Nightshade Oct 5 2005, 03:01 AM
Its a pity that most paying students are bombarded with every riding technique straight up and have no time for getting familiar with the animals. I guess that's the fault of the 'time is money' way of learning things.

Ack! I've seen way too many kids whose instructors have been trying to get them to make their horse go round, but never explain WHY their horse should be carrying himself properly.

Then they discover that if they see-saw on the reins, the horse pulls its head in trying to escape from the pain and it LOOKS like just how their teacher said it should! Well, from the front anyways, if you ignore that he's trying to move the bit into the least sensitive part of his mouth or has his muzzle tucked right into his chest.

I can only imagine how people like the warmblood parents would have reacted had they actually paid me good money to spend an hour teaching their little angel that she is a sack of potatoes atombomb.gif

As for those $3000 dressage saddles... They definitely won't make you a better rider, but my god you'll NEVER want to dismount! Stupid thing's more comfortable than any piece of furniture in my home..

I'd figured, seeing as so much of riding is more of a "feel" thing than an exact science, and considering you can't really understand any of the riding concepts unless you've felt it happen (particularly things like collection), it doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense to try to hammer them into a kid that will at best not understand, at worst completely ignore. Better to let them feel it and explain what's going on as it comes.. I'm sure that there must be others out there teaching The Potato Method smileNew4.gif

The terror of plastic bags are unforgettable, but I'd completely forgotten about the petrifying power of yellow paint!

Posted by: spacie Oct 5 2005, 08:47 AM
wow !!
lots of catching up & reading here !!
no time, at my town public library.
my computer bit the dust[again] and needs repair...soon as i can aford it !


i was taught a few lessons when i was fifth grader? a nice woman who learned through the army ! she taught us the ft. riley seat.
we had to do all sorts of things aboard her horses...standing up on their backs...moving all over them...and of course, we always had to halter them and bring them out, groom them, saddle them, etc. i was in heaven when i went there.
the most important thing we got to do...was an emergency dismount at a gallop.
no fear allowed !!!

but...i had been around horses all my life.
when i was 4, i would sneak into the neighbor's pasture/woods...and find his old wild horse...and i got that gentle giant to lower his head while i made mock bridles out of string !
then...i would lead him to an old feeder and up i went.
he he

i think horses just get in your blood....some sort of born that way.

my last life was an indian male, i am told.
i could ride like one i know that...

maybe working on my health and hoping to own a patch of land...horses are not expensive to own really...not the mixed breeds...
ya gotta dream.

just a hi.


ps...a friend of mine called last night to say she & her hubby saw a triangular ufo yesterday just after dusk...they watched it hover for 15 min. they had seen it the night before for 25 min !
i am going there tonight and we hope it is there again...she reported it to peter davenport...his online report.

eeeeeeeeeee O !!


Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Oct 5 2005, 06:26 PM
There will never be a substitute for the sack of potatoes method as a good fundamental introduction to the movement and balance of a horse (and rich parents will probably never see how much that lesson is worth bang.gif ). Unfortunately for those who value horse by dollars, it will mainly be the poor paddock hacks who get to learn this way, so we're lucky really (although the experience of the expensive saddle will forever be out of my reach).

That sawing on the bit thing is a dark little trick that makes its way around the schools out here too, I've heard people giving that trick as advice many a time, like a big secret whispered around the grooming bays while they pass the black face make up around. Now I may be completely straightjacket.gif but that stuff just doesn't make a horse look better to me. I've seen many a horse gag like it is going to throw up when the sawing on the bit advice is taken too.

It never ceased to amaze me how often the dressage riders would fall off in the back paddocks compared to how many paddock hacks would fall off in a sand arena. The dressage riders had so much more technique and knowledge and they looked great on their horses, but there was no grounding or deep earth connection there to help them cope with riding in the natural world - that goes for their horses too, if the horses had paddock sense there would have been less accidents.

Hey Spacie, I hope you get to see that ufo! I saw one of those unblinking lights fly over my house the other night, going south, an aeroplane flew right underneath it going east. One day I hope to be living away from city lights so that I can watch the skies at night and see more stars and flying things. Hope your computer is well again soon. Your military horsemanship skills may be in demand when TSHTF, hope you're ready to teach the youn'uns what you know thumbsup2.gif . There is actually a martial art type of skill involved in falling correctly - makes the difference between a bruise and a break.


Posted by: Nightshade Oct 5 2005, 08:57 PM
Warrior Spacie... has a bit of a ring to it smileNew4.gif

If your computer biting the dust is a software problem I could probably walk you through fixing it and making it behave without needing to pay an arm and a leg for a tech to come in. If a piece of your hardware's gone out to lunch though, then that might be another story...

Emergency dismounts! Probably the most entertaining lesson you could ever hope to watch, although we never got to do them at a full gallop (not in the lessons anyways, a horse took it upon herself to teach me that one!)

I've always thought that the paddock hacks were better riders than most of the trained students, even if they didn't look as showy on horseback. They're definitely more fun to ride with! And all of the techniques and positions, any one of them could learn, while what they develop naturally by going out with horses and friends and having fun is something that can't be taught. I've also noticed a profound difference in attitude between the two types of riders. Watch a paddock hack fall off their horse... the odds are quite good that they'll laugh about it, jump back on and continue whatever they were doing, no big deal. Then watch a dressage student (not necessarily dressage, but you know the type of rider I'm talking about) fall off. The entire world stops. They're going to quit riding. They hate their stupid horse and they're a failure of a rider and if only they had a better horse and blah blah blah blah....after some coddling and encouragement from friends and family they'll get back on sniffling and pouting, maybe trot around the ring a few times, pop over a jump then angrily put their horse away, going around and telling everyone who didn't see about their horrible fall.

I can't say I was ever very sympathetic!

Take a paddock hack and teach them the skills and techniques of the dressage rider, and they're unstoppable smileNew4.gif

heh, don't worry about those expensive saddles -- they're nice to sit in, but really make better furniture than riding equipment. I've also found that the cheap Wintec saddles can be really comfy, and that's usually what I'd ride in unless the horse had its own tack. Nutmeg liked them because they were light and didn't put pressure on her withers.

One day I'll have my little patch of dirt and some horses to call my own, it's all I've ever really wanted since I was a little twerp. Whether it comes when this society falls apart or by playing their game a little longer. One day.

Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Oct 5 2005, 10:41 PM
bustingupNEW3.gif Now you're making me laugh Nightshade lol2.gif , yes, the horrible fall of the dressage rider is a spectacle to behold indeed! Poor things, if all their gear is royal blue or maroon or purple (purple was really big for some reason) the brown really messes it up.

One of the paddock hack guys I used to ride with said that I was the only person he ever knew who could change her mind three times in mid air about which part of her body she wanted to land on. I never got hurt horse riding even with the trip-ups and kicks and slips and freak outs that happen 'out back' (It took a hell of an impact on my car from a 4wd to damage me in any way).

That's a coincidence that you mentioned Wintec saddles - mine is a Swap Top kids pony pad. It doesn't weigh anything at all until you put stirrups on it and all my gear fits in one plastic tub including the saddle. I like it because its light, soft, and it doesn't add width to the horse (handy if you can't avoid that roll in the muddy dam too). Wintec gets 10/10 for the injection moulded rubber concept. I kept it because it was so cheap that it was more worthwhile to hold onto than to sell it.

My choice of horse is usually the outgrown and bored pony too and that suits my choice of saddle just perfect. I like them bombproof and reliable and they don't have to be pretty. My buy-list is for under 14hh, thick legs and a long neck. Many an unwanted pony is just fine for me, they get to do stuff with me and I get a grateful friend. One day I'll be in a position to take on another one, one day (when I have land and if my doctors let me ride. Though if TSHTF there won't be any question about it). That's all I ever wanted too. First I had horses and no land or house, then I had land and no house and no horses, now I have a house but no land or horses. If I could just get all three together sasquatch-cry.gif ...

Posted by: Nightshade Oct 6 2005, 09:15 PM
One of the paddock hack guys I used to ride with said that I was the only person he ever knew who could change her mind three times in mid air about which part of her body she wanted to land on.

Now that takes some serious talent!

I couldn't tell you much about the way I fall except that I've never been hurt more than the odd bruise making the transition from horse to ground, not even from 17hh thoroughbreds gone crazy with spring fever. The first time I fell off, I somehow managed to land crouched down on my feet, a little stunned and trying to figure out what had just happened while my instructor was nearly doubled over laughing. I think I learned my sympathy for the falling dressage riders from her.

The worst injury I've sustained around horses was from being kicked in the thigh out in the paddock at night -- the horse I was leasing at the time was a spirited but sweet natured Anglo-Arab, but there was another horse nearly identical to her turned out in the same paddock who happened to be a real grouch, and needed to be approached with a degree of caution. Well, it was dark and I was in a hurry to get tacked up knowing that my horse would be covered head to toe in mud. Mistaking one for the other, I got a little too close too quickly without enough warning when she wheeled around and hoofed me hard in the thigh. Ouch. That was the first and only time I'd ever been kicked. I tried pretending that it didn't bother me (probably for the wrong reasons, I had the hots for the man who owned the stable and was teaching that night's lesson, and didn't want to come across as a wuss laughspin.gif ), but you could clearly see the lump on my thigh slowly swelling up to about the size of my head. When I took my breaches off to get a closer look at it an hour later, you could still see the fine details of her shoe imprinted in my skin.

Lesson learned!

Too bad there isn't a "correct" way to get hit by a 4wd like there is for falling off a horse eh?

I think when the day comes, I'll have to get used to riding ponies. Most of my experience has been with larger horses, so anything under 15.3hh feels a little small, and anything under 15hh feels downright awkward to me. When the day comes though, sturdiness is going to be what counts and that's going to be the types of ponies that you described.

Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Oct 7 2005, 12:15 AM
I remember the first time I fell off too Nightshade lol.gif . I was 11 years old on a holiday camp trail ride. The pony was probably all of 12hh but she had a reputation for throwing people (so I found out after my fall). There was part of the ride that went through a wooded area with blackberry vines and she got a blackberry vine around one of her feet and frightened herself. She threw me face first into the thorns. And OMG there was this camp leader and every girl on camp except me was drooling over him. I just didn't understand the concept of a crush at that age so it was a few years before I kicked myself in the butt for what I did next. He offered to let me ride with him on his horse... Yep, I said no. I got back on that sour little pony and continued like nothing had happened and told everyone that it wasn't her fault. Then I made a point of choosing her for every single ride after that too because I figured that it would make me a better rider. She was also a puddle duck and may have influenced my decision to buy a rubber saddle later in life straightjacket.gif . Bloody robot kid I was. And bloody what we do for horse men hey bang.gif ?

There have been times in my life when I've wandered in a dark paddock in search of my dark horse too. Usually closer to 3am after distressing encounters with people though.

I don't know if it was any real talent with my falling choices, just the same rules as ice skating really - on your side is better than on your back, make a fist, tuck your head under, keep your legs bent, arms covering your ribs, exhale before hitting the ground. Whether that was right or wrong I don't know, but that's what I based my mid air twistings on. Crazy hopings that I'm reducing potential for any serious damage crazy.gif Actually, a doctor told me that if I'm ever about to be hit again by in a car accident to not have either of my feet on any pedals so that the impact shock wouldn't travel up to damage my hips again. And it helps to have your seat specialised for your back. But you don't usually learn these things until after it happens, figures... blushNEW.gif

Posted by: Nightshade Oct 7 2005, 07:45 AM
And bloody what we do for horse men hey bang.gif ?

Oh man, tell me about it... bang.gif is right!

Men have always made me go completely stoopid, but make him a horse man with that balance of rugged gentleness, and sanity and common sense promptly decide to go out to lunch on me.

I'd like to say that a nice, long, monogamous relationship has fixed that, but really, I just get 10 times as stupid over one man blushNEW.gif

At least that sour little pony must have felt real special to be chosen over the hotty camp leader! Nothing like riding a horse that's talented at throwing people off to make you a better rider.

Horses have a funny way of saying just the right thing when you've had distressing encounters with people, no matter what the time of day. From time to time when things were really bad at home I would bike down to the stable in the middle of the night and sleep in the hayloft, it always felt better knowing all the horses were nearby with the soft sounds of their breathing and the familiar smells of the stable. If that didn't make me feel better, then being attacked by that crazy three-legged barn cat was sure to take my mind off whatever was bothering me!

Posted by: spacie Oct 7 2005, 07:59 AM computer is still glitchy & a friend of my son's is coming by today after school to help us.
short on time too today...must get back into mainstream work force....soon !!

i had a synthetic english saddle that i loved...not dressage or jumping type...just regular forward seat type.

the other day after reading this my errands about town...ran into an old friend who has doubled in weight...cause he sold his horse and he was so embarressed to bump into me.
horses do give ya LIFE !!
then....while at a computer fixit shop...up pulls a horse trailer with a young 3 year old filly inside...the two guys were taking her to a new owner and they told me they have a few mustangs for sale and it was so nice to mingle...and they asked to come by their farm any ol time !!!!!!!!!

must get a job...cause the dream is now aLIVE..

thanks to you both...
VPF...female ?????????????????????????

he he


keep writing !!!!!!!!!!
i am reading and feeling at one with what you say and i agree on all counts !!

i grew up in northern virginia...a distinct line was drawn between the aristocrats way of riding and me..the poorer yet my horse was my only friend for many years.
i would escape my parents and home life daily on my horse and i met so many neat people as i rode...
a crazy ol black woman who would routinely go into other selves and knew about times of slavery and such...she lived alone & was well into her 80s...and kept a pet rooster in her home in one bedroom...empty except for a step ladder the rooster had !!!!!!!!
he he
the stories she could weave
my horse would relax and graze with me aboard sitting wherever felt comfortable.


much love here.



Posted by: spacie Oct 7 2005, 09:05 AM
the 'ufo' dazzled both my friend and i the other night
twas way way away...
seems i had been tricked before by this particular sight
i remember a few saying it was a twinkler mother ship
and it was fun bonding with my lady friend
our girls now are growing up and leaving us moms empty nest
we dreamed of aliens watching us and telling us
all will be well
destiny rules
but, a quick surf to
the mystery ufo solved
beautiful in the sky now showing !!!!!!!!!

i must break the 'news' to my mystical friend.
maybe with some wine.........

am off again.
seeking employment



Posted by: Nightshade Oct 7 2005, 10:22 AM
wow...was just getting into the employment seeking grind for the day and feeling absolutely dismal...That horrible crushing sensation that's been a little too familiar lately. I think I've sent resumes off to every single person and agency hiring in this city and all I hear is "we'll call you back." Can't even say a simple "no" to my face, or on the phone, or in an email. When I remembered that often I used to see horsey-type jobs not in the employment section of the paper, but in the livestock sales and board sections of the classifieds. Nothing in there but an arabian mare for sale, but I did find that there's a BIG cluster of stables and riding schools tucked away just south of the inner city! I'd thought that they were all far out on the outskirts where the buses don't run, but these are a hop skip and a jump away on the skytrain and bus. I think I'll just wander around that area over the weekend and check things out -- surely at least one stable could use a hand shovelling poop from the stalls.

It would breathe some life back into me, that's for sure.

Funny how when things aren't working, no matter how much effort I'm putting into it, it never occurs to me that maybe, just maybe it isn't what I'm supposed to be doing. Even when I know damn well that it's not what I want to be doing with my life, it's hard to accept that what you're aiming for is wrong when you can't see any alternatives and the pressure's on.

Maybe things will work out a little better now that I feel that I'm pointed in the right direction (just looked at the clock -- 11:11)

Damn, how difficult things can get when you aren't true to yourself, eh? doh5.gif

Keep on dreaming, and don't let anyone else dictate which direction is right for YOU if it doesn't match up with what you know is right inside.

I know that finding a cluster of nearby stables isn't really much to go on, but I get a little feeling when something is about to work out just perfectly, like all the stars have lined up and the stage is set, and that little feeling has never let me down before! Something's about to happen.

Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Oct 7 2005, 08:04 PM
Wow, this thread seems to be turning into a working example of synchronicity. I've just been registered with a job seeking agency too, but I'm also reluctant to take steps away from what I really want to do, so (if we're all sharing a few guides here backtotopic.gif we aren't really totally taking this post off track, sometimes in life it just seems that way for a while) hopefully something of interest will come up that will have some income attached to it. I met someone a few weeks ago who runs a horse camp but pays only by giving experience and a free camp. That was just the indicator happenstance. It's a start to know that you do run into people and seemingly chance encounters can turn out to be much more. So here I go, keeping my awareness sharp so that I don't miss the encounter that is 'meant to be'. Maybe there will be a horsey type place (ethical industry of course) that needs some paperwork, stock ordering and tack maintenance done, maybe...

Now if things fall into place and Nightshade finds her perfect job at those newly discovered nearby stables and if Spacie's lead with the mustangs turns up something further and if I happen across that encounter that I know will come up... perhaps we'll all find that perfect job cheers2.gif . It sure sounds like we've all spent many years pouring all our effort into jobs and looking for jobs we didn't want to do at all, and now we've been steered into a place where we have to make that choice to do what resonates with our souls properly in order to make a living. It seems to me that this would be a necessary part of moving into higher vibrational rates and our guides really don't want us being left behind this time. You're absolutely right Nightshade, things are so very difficult when you aren't true to yourself. That's a hard lesson indeed and I'm only just learning that one.

This could be 11th hour stuff (the 11's have been haunting me for years). I know there's more to why the 11:11 on your clock was significant to you Nightshade but I'm not up on astrology and numerology so I only get to notice the recurrence of numbers as incidents of synchronicity. At least I recognise most of the time when it happens blushNEW.gif .

Maybe if I keep my sights on the fact that these things are happening, I will be able to brush off all those places that never even let you know that they have no intention of granting me an interview (they crush me too Nightshade).

Spacie, you're lucky to have young people around to help you with your computer, I hope you get it going again soon. Keep looking up too, because the etv's (ufo's to us but very identifiable to gov which is why they can say there are no ufos - to gov' they are all etv's) are there, and sooner or later we see a few of them.

Good luck with the job search for that higher spiritual employment everyone!

hugs.gif flowerNEW.gif peace2.gif

Posted by: Nightshade Oct 7 2005, 09:56 PM
Things always come full circle sooner or later, and it can be a fine line between off topic and a necessary (and very therapeutic) detour smileNew4.gif

The only downside to asking for guidance is that when you receive it, you really feel like smacking yourself in the head doh5.gif !

Years ago I more or less crushed my hopes and dreams beneath my heel like a cigarette butt after being told that what I wanted in life was wrong. I was pretty strung out coming off the drugs and trying not to drink myself to death, and desperate enough for any way to hold my head above the water that I was willing to listen to anything. Even if that meant throwing my dreams in the trash because they just aren't what normal people do in the real world. At the time I certainly wasn't living those dreams anymore, but I still knew what it was that I really to do with myself.

It just kind of hit me earlier - if I know what I really want, then why on earth am I continuing to listen to miserable people tell me how I should live my life? Why am I trying so hard to continue doing something that sucks the spirit out of me? Why am I getting so frustrated and upset when something that I don't want, that I know damn well is going to make me miserable, is refusing to work for me? Like the saying goes (NA and AA meetings are excellent places to pick up good sayings, if nothing else), if you're in a hole, STOP DIGGING!

Even though I haven't found anything concrete, I feel so free just to have popped out the rut I've been spinning my wheels in.

I know that the whole 11:11 thing has some sort of deep meaning in numerology and other areas, but I've heard so many different things all claiming to be right that I pretty much ignore them all (keeping them in the back of my head) and go on what I see. And every time I see that number pop up, it does so just when the pieces are about to fall in to place.

They're talking about horses on Coast right now smileNew4.gif

Feels good to finally see an alternative to banging my head against the wall.

I guess Mars hanging out in my sign and forcing me to look within hasn't been such a bad thing after all!

Best of luck to everyone.

Keeping my eyes open..


Posted by: olspacie Oct 8 2005, 07:33 AM
at age 56, am content if i meet my maker.
i am making sure my kids will not have too many hassles if i decide to cross over...
getting papers in order.

i am done my main goal..having kids and being a mom !
i am mostly male[80%], the whole parenting thing is a real stretch for me........ daughter & i met a lady who taught my daughter the basics of age 13, she was NOT listening[or believing anything i had to offer]...anyway...the lady worked at a nice new stable[the owners were themselves Godly !]...she mostly mucked stalls and handled the stallions and helped watch the mares near birthing time...they let her teach riding and she got the money...she was formerly a special education teacher. she got pissed when they told her she had to change the diapers of one of the more retarded teens !

she eventually quit the stable...and now runs her own breeding farm.

i will be happy pushing gettin way too old for muck jobs...the back goes first.

found this...
it is from the michael entity teachings...a mothership that gives readings and such.

my friend is ok with the ANTARES sighting...
i know they are there...have seen the discs and felt one cloaked that passed right over me and made me buzz all over. i was barely age 5 !!


best wishes.


Posted by: Nightshade Oct 8 2005, 11:26 AM
Thank you Spacie smileNew4.gif

If the person who wrote that article had a Laz around to regularly destroy their computers, they would have known to keep at least two backups!

I have a bad tendency to either focus completely on all the things that are going wrong in my life, or sit around being grateful for the things that are going right and completely ignore anything that's going wrong, not doing anything about it. Working on finding that middle ground where I can have gratitude for the good things, but still be aware of and fix the problems as they crop up.


So, instead of tromping through Vancouver's stables, I'm swapping out hard drives in Laz's computer and waiting by the phone. My dad called at about 1am last night (he's always had great timing...) to let me know that one of the places I'd applied for that said they'd call back but never did should, in fact, be calling me sometime today. Turns out his room-mate works there and had a talk with one of the other managers (not the one who decided I wasn't bubbly or trendy enough, or whatever it was that was running through her head), so we'll see if they live up to their end of the bargain. My first instinct was actually to say screw that -- I've got other plans in mind right now and don't have time for their head games, besides which, doing retail at the Gap is pretty near rock bottom on my list of things that I'd like to do. I was also a little miffed on a personal level because being turned away from the Gap is about a step or two up from being turned away from McDonalds!

But turning away any opportunities right now just because they aren't "ideal" would be really foolish on my part. The fact that someone took the time and effort to try and pull some strings for me when they didn't have to also makes me less inclined to blow it off. And if I can land it, it would take the pressure off while I find something that I'll like doing ("You know, I'd really rather be mucking stalls" is definitely high up there on the list of things not to say at a job interview!). On the bright side, it's down on Robson St which has a really neat atmosphere about it, and this group of stables I'm looking at is just south of downtown, so I'll be in the right neck of the woods.

I'm getting ahead of myself here, they might not even bother calling! lol.gif

I've only seen one ufo in my lifetime, that was last winter, but I've known they're out there since the first time I looked up at the sky.


Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Oct 8 2005, 06:02 PM
Wow, Nightshade your Dad sounds very helpful. It may just work out for you to have a stepping stone job which brings you close to the stables. Is this a food outlet at the Gap? Even though that kind of work isn't very mentally stimulating, the smell of fresh food and sounds of people taking a bit of time to relax can be calming to be around even if you're run off your feet working in the place (and allows a bit of time for daydreaming in the comfort of knowing that you're getting a bit of money for being there). The downside to that industry is exactly what you mentioned "head games" - management need to find other ways to occupy their minds too and they tend to be entirely work focused in entirely the wrong way (ego trips substitute for real self esteem etc). If you're lucky you may get a shift that lets you head out to the stables after work. I hope they call you back, specially after your Dad has put effort into helping out. hugs.gif It may be a step towards getting where you want to go, and if it doesn't work out or it doesn't take you where you want to go, don't let yourself believe that it reflects on you in any way because its a 'horses for courses' world and we have good reasons for not all being thoroughbreds, arabs and warmbloods winkNEW.gif .

Hi Spacie waving.gif , here's another bit of synchronicity for you. I've been telling my friend that sometimes the words of a stranger will work where familiar voices will fail and he didn't quite understand until last night whilst we were watching Monty Roberts "Load Up" where the owners who couldn't get their horses to go on a float were bringing them to a remedial lecture session.

The horses went on the float in no time for Monty Roberts. I made an observation which sounds almost exactly like what you just said about your daughter too. I said "They don't know him so they aren't sure how he'll react if they're disrespectful to him so they figure its better to be safe first up. He (Monty) has both eyes in front of his head which means that he is a carnivore and potential danger. When they look at each other they only see one eye looking back because their eyes are at the sides of their heads and that means 'safe', when they look at us they see two eyes looking back and that means 'predator', that's why Monty looks at the ground or approaches them diagonally. Until they have him pegged they do what he wants until they work out how far they can push him, whereas they have their owners worked out already and have gotten away with being pushy in the past. That's why sometimes a stranger can get through with authority where a familiar person can't".

Funny hey, that kids work exactly the same way! No matter, its not a bad thing to put your kids in the hands of a new person to get an important lesson through, as long as that person is good at what they do and trustworthy, you have made one of those good old hard decisions and done the right thing. Doing what works and taking control sometimes means handing a project over to someone else to get certain points completed in a way which complements all the hard work you've put in already. The finished product will be much better because you've recognised the way that your life's work operates. And it sounds from what you said that your daughter has turned out very well! handclap.gif respekt.gif

Posted by: Nightshade Oct 8 2005, 10:25 PM
So, the bad news is, they never called....

But the good news is, they never called!

That's alright, I really don't have any need for these games at this stage of my life anyhow. I know when I dropped off that application that that's the type of place it was, reaffirmed when the manager stepped out (after a lengthly wait) looking like she was queen of the castle and all the other employees, the customers and myself were dirt beneath her heel. She then went into the back again to look at her schedual (taking 20 minutes) and told me that they were all booked up with interviews for the entire week, and that they would call me at the end of the week to set up a formal interview.

Now, immediately I thought that something was fishy because Della, my dad's room-mate who's worked there for years, had originally suggested it to me because they have a severe shortage of workers (because nobody wants to work there - her words laughspin.gif ), and the managers were begging all of the employees to refer anyone they knew. Booked up indeed. That's their loss, they would have hired someone with a rock-solid work ethic who could do the job blindfolded, but I'm sure Della is not going to appreciate that they've now lied straight-faced to her.

The job itself I wouldn't have minded, folding clothes, ringing up sales, helping customers etc is pretty basic, but I was really dreading having loud hip-hop and rap assaulting my ears all day and the BORG-factory environment borg.gif

Yes, my father's been quite helpful, although like most dads, from time to time he can forget that I'm a grown woman and gets a little pushy with how he thinks I should be doing things! It looks like this has just been further conformation that this is my road to walk right now and mine alone.

'Horses for courses,' that's so very true of this world. Don't know what I'd be though! Probably something with just a little too much wild in it's eye, gets me into trouble from time to time smileNew4.gif

Posted by: spacie Oct 9 2005, 09:55 AM
our spirit guides may indeed be as lost as us !!

'the earth-moon entity speaks'
messages by natalia anna stansova
she weaves a story about the Original One that wanted to split and became the Divine Masculine and Divine Feminine[EARTH MOMMA's core essence...her Star Being]...another split and the pain formed the DarkOne anti matter...
something like that.
the false light/creator/ jealous of the big daddy Divine One...and seeks to Have the Divine Feminine...the Earth Entity.
the malignant aliens under his wing...believe they can control the earth suppressing the Human Female.
The human is both of the Gods and our cells are made from the Earth.

the grand play of physicality.

of course, it is so complex....and we seem to be doing the micro of the macro every moment...our lives and experiences reflect that.

my daughter is waiting til january to start college.
she is now working as a checker at the local country mart...and graveyard shift at Mcdonalds!! she did work at JC Penney in shoes...but, they cut back everyone's hours...seems the economy is really not so good.

my car broke friday...the starter grinds.
hmmm !!

maybe i should walk to the nearby old haunted a nursing home and get the job i need !
nights would be fine...........insomnia is normal for me.
meeting a few ghosts of the lead miners would be interesting too !!!!!

eeeeeeeeee O.

believe in miracles !!!!!!!!



Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Oct 10 2005, 12:00 AM
Probably just as well you didn't get that Nightshade, if they play borg music all the time stormtrooper.gif bartborg.gif bartborg.gif that woud make me go completely grrrrr.gif furious.gif pullhair.gif and would also go someways towards erroding any confidence I would have in the product I was selling too.

The division of the one into many and the reconciling of the many into one doesn't have to be seen as a battle between good and evil Spacie. Some important jobs are entirely distasteful, but somebody has to do them in order for the universal intelligence to know the experience of all possibilities of itself, and even if we don't want to be the one to do the job, we can appreciate the lessons we take away from witnessing that job being done. Our guides are the teachers who act in our best interest, but there are other teachers. Every being is a teacher, and the lesson is the nature of the interaction and the wisdom of choice we have in that interaction with that teacher. If we fail in one lesson, that teacher moves along and another one comes in to teach that same lesson in its own way. We just keep doing the lessons until we 'get it'. This is the 'Sacred Contract' we hold with all beings we encounter.

Someone asked me once what I had learned so far from a particular group lesson I had been attending, and I said "Everyone is 'Sir', that's what I've learned". It was a half-arsed lazy answer but it summed up perfectly what I had worked out about where I stand, with everyone.

Peace love and light to all


Posted by: Nightshade Oct 10 2005, 01:47 AM
I remember looking around while waiting for the store manager, wondering how on earth I could convince anybody that $80 is a reasonable price for a pair of plain khaki pants. Then I remembered who their customer base is and realized that it would probably be a much more difficult job convincing any of them that an article of clothing costing less than $80 could be worth having in their wardrobe... I think that if I were to mention that my $10 jeans have lasted for years without a single tear, many of them would be more appalled that I've worn a pair of pants more than once than impressed with the jeans!

They might have a stroke if I were to mention that I've had my favorite pair of boots since I was 13...The perfect street boots for a dumb punk kid, light enough to swiftly run away from the police, heavy enough to do some damage in a fight! They aren't too pretty to look at anymore, but they'll last forever.

I think I'll have to wait until tomorrow to try to wrap my mind around that Spacie, I just got in a couple hours ago from some thanksgiving dinner with WAY too many people and kids crammed into much too small a space. I'm a little on the introverted side, so these types of large gatherings are pretty draining to begin with...But to make matters worse, one of the people there juat finished bartending school and wanted to show off their new skills. Translation: anyone not driving is automatically designated "guinea pig" and I've had probably one too many really foul tasting tomato-juice and vodka concoctions! cheers.gif

Kind of like sea-water and nail polish remover...

Glad to hear your daughter's going to be going to college smileNew4.gif

A haunted workplace would definitely keep things interesting!

This is the main place that I'm looking at, although there are plenty of others dotted around as well:

Bloody huge!

I heard back from Nutmeg's owner as well, she was sold a year and a half ago but she's going to try and get me the contact info for her new owner, and I'm going to try and muster up some pictures from her younger days to send off. Apparently she fell in love with their pony and was crazy enough to try to jump a 6' high electric fence when turned out in another part of the field shock.gif

I shouldn't be too surprised though, she actually DID manage to jump a nearly 5' fence with me on her back once (bolting, not trying out for the grand prix!)

Posted by: spacie Oct 10 2005, 10:35 AM
good vs evil ?
didn't mean to imply that life is that simplistic
i just dunno......

i think i am here to pay my bills and not tread on anyOne's toes.

i also avoid my genetic family like a 'plague'
all the reunions turn into an alcohol fest and lots of noise and ego thumpin
i leave with my stomach churning and not from the booze........

i think we are passing the point of no return
out of our hands.

i am content to watch the show
play my part

hopefully make some money doing someThing
keepin my own head afloat

good & evil
black & white
both are fun.



Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Oct 10 2005, 07:48 PM
Hi Spacie, I didn't mean to go on too much, I know you understand about the way things work. Just sharing a different perspective I've gained from different sources. blushNEW.gif I'm sitting back to watch the show too, I've had just about enough of participating in the show, I think my part in the play is over now. Your family gatherings sound alot like mine, but they don't happen often, so I get lots of psyche-up time beforehand shock.gif .

My jeans all cost between $2.00 & $12.00 too Nightshade. They're from garage sales, charity stores and discount outlets. They all fit really nice and they are all tough fabric. I don't understand the value of labels. I had to give up on the boots I had as a kid because in their infinite wisdom my mother bought a pair that I could grow into. They were well made, but I never grew into them lol.gif , same with the joddies I had as a child, they went in a clothing bin because I never grew into them. If my boots had actually fit me as a kid, I'd still have mine too laughspin.gif .

If I'm going to make any money now I'm going to have to find a new way to cash in on the 'yuck factor' as they say in business magazines (jobs that people just don't want to do for themselves and are willing to pay others to do instead), but it can't be heavy work, so I'm thinking... scratchinghead.gif something that won't take me away from where I want to go...

Posted by: Nightshade Oct 10 2005, 10:04 PM
I usually avoid family gatherings whenever I can. For the most part, I've been pretty successful, and I only have one side of the family to worry about -- my mother also avoids them like the plague. WAY too many gossipping heads on that side of the family. I have relatives who last saw me before I could even sit up on my own who have dirt on me that even I can't remember thanks to that bloody grapevine, not to mention the lies and embellishments that always accompany the true stories!

My dad on the other's actually easier and less stressfull to endure his gatherings than it is to try and avoid them. "No" is not an answer!

Maybe I'm just too antisocial, but to me, being crammed into a small condo with approximately 30 other people, 10 of which are excited children chasing the cat, 20 of which are liquored up, know you only as "Kevin's daughter," want to hear your life's story and why you aren't doing better, why you haven't done more with your life etc etc is really not my idea of a good time.

Just trying to keep my balance in a lopsided world and find my place smileNew4.gif

And maybe that's just to live, pay my bills and taxes and kick the bucket when it's time, but I really can't think of that possibility too much -- I'm young and provided nothing happens, that makes for a lot of bills and taxes ahead! So it's a little too depressing to imagine that the purpose of the rest of my life is to continue on feeding the bloody system.

I'm hoping to see that system collapse in my lifetime...or better yet, see it evolve into something that isn't based on greed and suffering and destruction. But looking at the way things are going, collapse seems more likely.

It's just incredible to me that I'm supposed to devote my life to corporate buzzwords and credit scores and loans and chasing dollar signs like a fish chasing bait and all this other BS that just seems so meaningless in relation to fullfilment in life. But society takes it all so very seriously.

sigh.gif sorry, I'm starting to ramble a bit.

Posted by: spacie Oct 10 2005, 10:57 PM
VPF & NightShade...
i don't feel so lonely reading your posts.
i wish i could find a Mate/man?? snuggle with and who can relate to what both of you just wrote.
my hope is what keeps me truggin along..

my car is now fixed, so back into the job hunt 'game'.
i tell my kids and their be sure & learn a career and then another one to back that one up !!
the kids with pluto in scorpio...that generation, may be the ones who make the big changes...bring on the collapse.

time seems so slow some days...

i appreciate that, too.

just hi.
just nanA.


Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Oct 10 2005, 11:28 PM
hhhmmmmm, guides, synchronicity, similarities... scratchinghead.gif

miner.gif the interconnectedness of all things, or something else?

Posted by: Nightshade Oct 11 2005, 12:46 AM
That's my generation...guess I'd better sharpen up my horns and get cracking on that one eh?

Want to borrow my man for a bit? I could use a couple quiet days to myself lol2.gif

He's a good snuggler, although he can get a little snarly if you try to maul him when he needs his space!

Whew, glad to hear that your car's back up! Not having one that's in driveable condition is making things difficult enough over here, and we've got a very good public transit system going.

That's some sound advice for your daughter there. It drives me nuts that kids are told all throughout their childhood that they can do and be anything they like without any sort of grounding in reality. I'm sure the people who say these things probably see their hopeful little faces and feel like they've done the right thing... But then those hopeful little kids grow up and get a dose of the real world, and all those hopes come crashing to the ground. For many it dies right there. Suddenly, all that hope is just another load of crap, like Santa and the tooth fairy, only far worse because this is a realization that permeates into every aspect of their lives.

Not to say that kids shouldn't have hope and shouldn't be encouraged to reach for their dreams, but we really do like to BS them and leave out any gritty details, that it might be hard, that they probably won't get it right away, that they might change their minds and be left wondering what they're going to do with themselves, that they'll need to have a backup plan in case things don't work quickly enough so they aren't left hanging. It might not be a fun thing to teach them, but I think it's better that they learn this than come to the conclusion that the fulfillment of their dreams is just another myth or fairy tale not fit for the real world, right on the cusp of the next chapter in their life.

In a perfect world...anyone could be and do anything they desire.

Time is like a freight train over here: the brakes are full-on and sparks are flying but there's no stopping happening!

I might be a little jaded, but it's hope that keeps me going along as well. Hope and reality -- I try to keep my head in the clouds, but my feet on the ground.


Posted by: spacieiam Oct 11 2005, 08:04 AM
thanks, nightshade..
he he
but, i think a 'man' in my life right now is not possible
am too busy feeding my shadowy Self !

i live in a bible town
a few wiccans...and gays/lesbians...lots of labels, eh ?
bumped into a particularly strong male church goer yesterday.
do i look like i need a mate ????????
do i look like i do not know about jesus christ ?????????
i set him straight...i should have told him to mind his own fucking life

leave me alone
feels good
my last relationship of 23 years was one of HIM judging everything i did.
and i never did anything 'right' according to HIM.


i know i came here with the goddess energy

guess, i am also a bit muffed this day.

am off to to momma nature and all the birds....and turtles.

i think man is passing the point of no return
the game must play out
find your corner
maybe it will be 'safe'

i hope so.



Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Oct 11 2005, 03:49 PM
It must be hard for an open minded and nature-aware person to live in a bible belt. Kali has her rightful place in the Goddess energy Spacie. New needed things don't have room to grow if the outdated among old things aren't taken apart to make room and available energy for them.

Lucky Nightshade has a good snuggler who understands everything we've said here AND can fix computers - IN CANADA!

Children do deserve to be let in on the real situations they will be facing and given real tools to deal with anything they are likely to have to do later in life. If only those serious job suitability assessments were made available to people from the age of 5 and presented regularly to all school aged children, then their education tailored to suit each child's natural talents and abilities. We'd have well adjusted happy teenagers contributing and making serious decisions in society and earning money and learning to handle their assets under the guidance of proud parents and highly trained professional guidance staff. What a dream, to know what you're best suited to do and be doing it and that your future is bright and know that you're a valuable member of society by the time you're old enough to vote.

We can dream. I guess only the home schooled kids at the moment will grow up like this.

Posted by: Nightshade Oct 12 2005, 02:09 PM
No no! He breaks the computers, I fix them! It's the main reason we have seperate systems -- he's not allowed to touch mine (that, and our apartment has become a sort of rescue society for unwanted computers and parts)

I think that I would lose my mind in a bible belt -- either that or place myself in complete isolation with some cats and forget about the human race. I don't particularly care what any individual wants to believe; that's their business. It's the salvation thing that gets to me. I don't particularly appreciate being pestered and told how my soul will rot in hell for not sharing their sets of beliefs and moral values, and being met with a patronizing sort of acceptence spotted with pestering once they figure out that the hell card doesn't work on me.

respekt.gif for surviving the bible belt with your sanity intact!

Sadly, the government, at least in north america, is on some sort of holy crusade againt home schooling. Not enough indoctrination or something. It's not uncommon for the gov to take these children away and throw them into foster homes by claiming that the home-schooling is abuse and isolation. I'm sure that in a few select cases it is, but they obviously haven't taken a good look at the majority of these kids. Most are well-adjusted, happy and curious. Many come across as much more intelligent and mature than those churned out of the system, without losing the capacity to play and just be kids. And many have lots of friends and are definitely not isolated just because they don't sit in a classroom with 30 other students everyday. In fact, there are lots of students who ARE part of that class of 30 who should be considered "isolated" even though they're constantly physically near other students, whether it be because they're painfully shy or just aren't popular or liked for whatever reason...Group education is no doubt good for some types of students, but the rest are more likely to grow up believing that there's something "wrong" with them and will spend their developmental years trying to fix themselves in search of acceptance, rather than finding themselves and who THEY are.

Posted by: Mark Oct 12 2005, 04:21 PM
I don't particularly appreciate being pestered and told how my soul will rot in hell for not sharing their sets of beliefs and moral values

Same here!

Home schooling is a threat to THEM as it means more children will grow up without peer pressure and are encouraged to think for themself.

The biggest threat to any tyrannical or corrupt government is a population that thinks for itself and does not believe everything they view in THEIR controlled snooze media.

IMO, never EVER let the state step in and decide what is best for your kids or family --- unless of course, you are one of those sick mofos who molest or keep your kids locked up in small cages with barely any food.

Posted by: Visiting PuPPs Fan Oct 12 2005, 04:31 PM
blushNEW.gif Oops, I misunderstood your man's relationship with computers Nightshade. Is there much of a market in your area for someone with your experience at putting computers back together? Maybe you could cash in on that talent?

I absolutely agree with what you said about home schooling vs the education system. I was one of those kids who spent all my growing up years trying to be invisible and wishing I was out on a farm learning real stuff instead of hiding from the talons of the 'Barbie Brigade'.

Hey Spacie, Gizmo.gif we all need to acknowledge our shadow selves too, if we don't, they get mad at being ignored and shunned and they try to go off and live a life of their own, then we have a splintered soul and a doppleganger and that's bad. Not just because the doppleganger can go about doing some really nasty things that we will pay the karmic debt for, but because that's a piece of our soul out there in exile from the rest of us and we caused the pain it is experiencing, and we can't progress and grow as a splintered soul. People are best off being well balanced and embracing their dark sides along with their light sides. Our dark sides hold many important lessons for us and ignoring our great teacher, our shadow selves, is going to inhibit our potential to learn to be strong and compassionate. Out of sight is not out of mind, it is just out of balance. hugs.gif

In summary - good on ya for acknowledging your whole self and treating it with understanding and compassion. winkNEW.gif

Posted by: spacie Oct 13 2005, 05:16 AM

fear is a funny lesson?!
i send my kids to public school...
i know they need to be around their generation
i am lucky to be in a good school district
we have an amazing band teacher
he used to be a mayor of one of these small towns
his wife also teaches creative daughter loves her !
this woman is also jewish...
the schools are only as good as the community that feeds it

this society is not perfect and is ever changing.........
that is also wonderful !

this band director is one of the best in the state.
this year he retires.
or maybe NOT...he is thinking about staying on...if this year's jazz band is really tops.
my son is a freshman and plays trumpet in that jazz group.


i am never afraid of the ones who promote their bible.

i make them live what they preach............

and i learn how to express mySelf with them.

we really have no enemies...

the family of man/woman.



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