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> Why We Dream, They are easier to understand..........


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  Posted: Feb 9 2005, 05:18 PM
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I'm of the opinion that the key to understanding dreams lies in the mechanics of our reality. If one were to assume the Theory of Evolution to be correct, than dreams evolved as a way for an organism to understand its environment as well as to make more efficient its future reactions. I know I write with a kind of detachment, I tend to think analytically and know no other way to express this, so please bear with me.......

Why do we Dream?

Every organism interpretes its environment through 5 senses, but at any given time dependent on the physical need or focus only one sense is being used, usually sight.....How many times have you closed your eyes to enjoy an aroma? Regardless of how many senses you tend to focus on at any given time, the brain is still percieving the world with all of its senses; the word subliminal essentially means "below conscious perception".

In order for the brain to process all that it has perceived in waking life, it "dreams".As such, dreams are the assimilation of all direct and peripheral perception into long-term memory. This process is conducted so that the organism may understand better and interact more efficiently with its environment by "re-experiencing" recent sensory perception. This re-experiencing is done by "combining" new experience with similar memories; since the overall physical environment rarely changes once it has been lived in, most new dreams center on the emotion and feelings of the organism.

To take this last sentence further, try a quick index of your most recent dreams.......how many of them were "feelings" amidst a social environment? And how many were focused on physical details such as the "knot in a piece of wood" or "words and numbers?" The focus on social activity is a natural default after a person has matured; he/she is already very familiar with his/hers physical reality and the only great unknown(for the most part) is other people and how they think/feel in corrolation.


For the sake of arguement, we'll use anxiety as a reference since all of our actions are affected by the intensity of it. .....all of those motivational speakers earn their money by instilling confidence. The more confidence you have means less anxiety. Anxiety comes in a myriad of forms(guilt, shame, fear, instilled responsibility conflicting desire, and others). Remembering your dreams allows you to consciously reflect on how your subconscious reacts to your continuing life. From there it is almost just a matter of deciding how/if you want to change it. This type of reflection is self-evident with how well you interact with others and the activity you involve yourself in.....knowing how and why you react allots you the option to change how you act.....since dreams are the summation of all ingested information by which our behaviour is based upon, it would stand that understanding our behaviour would help us to more efficiently interact.....essentially what you stand to learn from increased awareness of your dreams is a better understanding of 1)yourself 2)how you react to the world. 3)How the world reacts to you 4)Specific details about anything(conscious control, or lucid.

As to the seeing of the future via dreams, the brain is an incredibly sensitive and calculating organ. I would imagine that precognition could be explained by intuition, anticipation w/ regard to pattern recognition, and individual interest/focus and the intensity thereof.........


Of course learning is not meant in a way to exclude fun as this aspect of dreaming(having fun) is where most of the theraputic value lies - also, I have never heard of anyone not enjoy "learning" how to lucid dream. I am trying to express that interacting with your environment is a constant learning experience and dreams are there to continue adding into your memory the encountered reality. Learning begins, obviously, at infancy and these memories are what establishes the type of reactions, in part, that particular human will have. Later in life when the physical world has been learned, most of the new "information" will be in the form of social experience.....


I submit that the division of the mind into "conscious" and "unconscious" is done merely for convenience in explaining the functions of our mind. I would think it more accurate to describe our mental state as a constantly flucuating consciousness and if that were so than of course an emotional shock would undoubtedly dominate it. An emotional shock is usually the povacateur of recurring dreams. An attempt to understand how deeper levels of consciousness express the shock, such as dreaming, could lead to a "conscious" assuaging of the trauma. Maybe I'm trying to implicate dreams in concert with conscious thought.....



The brain, in using symbols in dreams, has demonstrated that it is very efficient and as such wouldn't use old memories that have been "updated" by more recent experience that incorporate the same subject matter. This thought I could expand on further, I think, as it relates more to memory with relation to behaviour, but I do think that in a dream state you have access to all of your memories.....If you experienced it, then it must have a biological representation in the brain - that's why neural networks grow in response to experience. If you take a look at the biological development of neurons(dendrites, axons, etc.) and their responses to neurotransmitters, memory is more vivid the more "similar experiences" you have. Hence, "Practice makes perfect." The more you encounter a specific experience/situation/environment/relationship/etc., the stronger those particular regions of neurons become........


I'm still refining etc., so please feel free to call me on anything, I'm sure their are holes somewhere. However, I believe this to be an accurate description of the reasons for dreams and the use in our lives. Because dreams have evolved in response to our learning process, it would stand to reason that dreams exist for us to learn from. The best way to do that, IMO, is to start with the mundane details, such as "why did I react that way when this subject came up," or, "Why did I feel this way when I am usually quite comfortable with my life." It's all ways the details that lead to more provocative questions and, subsequently, more provocative reasons.

This is why I think it a sham that dreams are usually religated to the mystical or new age section..........they're as natural as two arms and two legs!!! I believe the unlimited capacity for learning and memory allotted by our dreams and the relative disregard people in general give them is no accident.........a conspiracy to ensure that the full learning and operating potential of the brain is never realized. Life in America is motivated by distraction after distraction and the constant barrage on our "animal instincts." This of course leaves no time for self-reflection, for the healthy cultivation of the "why" aspect of our nature.......



pyramideye2.gif



I believe the third eye is actually our capacity to imagine, and dreams are a nightly process of imagination. smileyP.gif





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Posted: Feb 9 2005, 07:30 PM
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Hi SubVolitional,

Appreciate your thoughts. I have long wondered about dreaming, and after many years of life, am still puzzled by the process.

Here are some of my experiences, as more ‘grist for the mill’

Years ago, I read ‘an experiment with time’ by JW Dunne. He theorized that time was only perceived linearly in our waking reality, and that in our sleep state, time was ever present. This meant that during dreaming ‘we’ (whatever you want to take that to mean) can ‘travel’ backward and forward in time, and also through a multitude of ‘optional’ timelines.

Our recollection of dreams in our waking reality, therefore come from a distorted fusion of these experiences. (Or maybe they are only distorted by our five sense filters?)

Anyway, I have experienced several examples of dreams that were a clearly a bizarre fusion of both past events and events that did not occur until sometime later. In many cases, I also had with the memory of the dream a very strong emotion about a particular, apparently insignificant, feature of the dream that would puzzle me until the future event occurred. At that time the emotional anomaly would become clear and resolve itself.

I also had those dreams that merely triggered the feeling of Déjà vu.

One of the exercises that Dunne suggested was to keep paper and pen handy, and try to write or draw details on waking, at whatever time. He noted that after about 15 minutes most dreams are lost from memory.

He also cautioned that it would not be possible to do this continuously since the activity begins to cause irritability, confusion, and tiredness. It seems as though dreams were not intended to be recalled by the conscious waking mind, and my experience was that it became increasing hard to recall dream experiences, and it began to feel as if I had not slept.

My conclusion was that dreaming is a natural state that is also meant to be forgotten. I just haven't fully fathomed its purpose. Perhaps more will get added to this thread to further our knowledge.

Thanks for starting this – like so many things recently in my life, the synchronicity is perfect!

I haven’t read his book for years, so perhaps its time for a refresher!

WF






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Posted: Feb 9 2005, 09:25 PM
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QUOTE
Years ago, I read ‘an experiment with time’ by JW Dunne. He theorized that time was only perceived linearly in our waking reality, and that in our sleep state, time was ever present. This meant that during dreaming ‘we’ (whatever you want to take that to mean) can ‘travel’ backward and forward in time, and also through a multitude of ‘optional’ timelines.


Consider this.........in your waking life can you travel back and forth in time, or choose an optional timeline? That said, my take is that the best way to interprete Dunne is to look at it from a different angle. When I dream I can travel back in time...........in the sense that I can remember past experience with more intensity than waking life. Also, when lucidity is achieved, I can mix and match the memories with my imagination and vice versa. As for traveling into the future, I can anticipate and logically discern many things. There are instances I have heard about that were of a prophetic nature.....but most can be accounted for with a logical look at the trend in someones life. So I suppose that, sure, you can define it as Dunne chose to, but the focus shouldn't be on the timeline.....it should be on you and how you percieve/react. After all, you are the star of your own life.

QUOTE
Our recollection of dreams in our waking reality, therefore come from a distorted fusion of these experiences. (Or maybe they are only distorted by our five sense filters?)


With practice comes a very detailed recollection. Distortion is caused by you, therefore, you can clear your perception.

QUOTE
Anyway, I have experienced several examples of dreams that were a clearly a bizarre fusion of both past events and events that did not occur until sometime later.


IMO, you will encounter scenarios that will incorporate your memories(past) with your concerns(potential future; the potential is based on your subsequent behaviour and actions. I'll stop here because to go any further would require an in-depth look at your moral/ethics, religious, political, and possibly even familial background. Many decisions everybody makes is based in part in these situations). Suffice to say for now that you should encounter corrolations with past and future; one leads to the next.


QUOTE
In many cases, I also had with the memory of the dream a very strong emotion about a particular, apparently insignificant, feature of the dream that would puzzle me until the future event occurred. At that time the emotional anomaly would become clear and resolve itself.


One of the most important aspects of dreaming, IMO, is the emotional impact it has. This is anindicator of your feelings towards a situation. If you understand this then you can effect control over yourself........a skill many people, IMO, do not understand.


QUOTE
One of the exercises that Dunne suggested was to keep paper and pen handy, and try to write or draw details on waking, at whatever time. He noted that after about 15 minutes most dreams are lost from memory.


Very good advice........probably the best way to learn dream recall. However his note regarding the 15 minutes.......... he is mistaken. A) He did not, I am sure, conduct a thorough study. B) I recall most dreams at various points........walking down the street, etc. He may be referring to the "amateur dream recaller." It gets better with practice.


QUOTE
He also cautioned that it would not be possible to do this continuously since the activity begins to cause irritability, confusion, and tiredness. It seems as though dreams were not intended to be recalled by the conscious waking mind,


Wrong. Completely false. The more you dream and become involved in your dreaming(at the very least, it's more fun than "waking life"), the more you will understand that in order for Dunne to state such a thing was to either be incompetent or to intentionally mislead you.


QUOTE
and my experience was that it became increasing hard to recall dream experiences, and it began to feel as if I had not slept.


It sounds like you reacted to his words......consider this...........how many times did a flying dream or "fill in the blank that was a cool dream" make you feel irritable or confused. Consider his "philosophies" not his biological assessments.

QUOTE
My conclusion was that dreaming is a natural state that is also meant to be forgotten


I can say that my conclusion is that dreams are meant to be remembered while awake and reality is to be remembered in dreams. A full integration of consciousness is by no means easy(I don't have that) but it is possible. I know of people who can "lucid dream" at will, and like I said, at the very least it is more fun than most waking activities.

QUOTE
I just haven't fully fathomed its purpose. Perhaps more will get added to this thread to further our knowledge.


I have learned many hard lessons in my relatively young age and as a result had to fathom the nature of it. I want this thread to continue for the exact same reason; the only way I can learn more is to discuss it.


QUOTE
I haven’t read his book for years, so perhaps its time for a refresher


Please disregard his negative implications smileNew4.gif

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Posted: Feb 10 2005, 04:07 AM
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Hey Sub Volitional, I see you've started a thread - cool deal.

Thank you for sharing your time and for your analysis.

Much appreciated!

QUOTE
One of the exercises that Dunne suggested was to keep paper and pen handy, and try to write or draw details on waking, at whatever time. He noted that after about 15 minutes most dreams are lost from memory.
I still can recall my dreams from early childhood through my adult life. But some dreams do seem to be easily forgotten.

I also recommend writing down your dreams as soon as you awaken as you get more details that way. And then when you go back and read what you wrote, even more details may arise.

I just had a real strange dream and actually typed it up as soon as I woke up. I'll fix the typos and post it soon for your viewing pleasure/displeasure - heh.

I miss those fun dreams. Lately, they havn't been good ones.




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Posted: Feb 10 2005, 03:42 PM
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Hi SubVolitional,
Thank you for taking the time to reply, and making me think some more about this.

I recall an experiment undertaken to understand more about the dream process.
One group were wakened whenever dreaming started and the other group were wakened exactly the same number of times, except it was during non dreaming periods. The group who were disturbed during the dreaming state quickly exhibited major sleep deprivation signs. It seemed that uninterrupted dreaming is important.

My understanding is that each person has many dreams in several dream periods of sleep, and that upon waking most if not all of these dreams are lost to our consciousness.

Only the impressive or lucid dreams are readily retained, although some others might be recalled by an event during waking time. Most of my dreams are simply not remembered. Maybe this is just a personal thing. I have a poor memory anyway, so maybe I simply forget more of my dreams than others!

I would be interested in others experiences - can three of more dreams be remembered regularly each night?
scratchinghead.gif

Anyway, that's why I posted that I thought that dreaming is both an essential natural process and not intended for our consciousness.

One other part of the mix is that I am not certain that time is linear, and that it isn’t just a construct for our waking reality. I used the words ‘alternative timelines’ in my post more as a convenience. I think that in dream state there is no time - everything just ‘is’.
It is like a sea of knowledge.

Maybe the difficulties in discerning dreams are because not only are they are personal to the individual, but that we are discerning with the minds 5 sense interpretation. When we reach deeper, we move into the area where we are best manipulated.

I see you have also read the paper by Dick Sutphen on another thread. He illustrates clearly how easy it is to influence the being, and the multitude of methods available.

Perhaps dreaming is another one of these methods, allowing new information to come into our deeper levels and in some cases also reach our consciousness, and these actions cause subtle changes in our behaviours.

So if it is true that we dream many more times that we can remember and dreaming is essential for well-being, perhaps the real purpose of dreams is to gain information to give to our deeper levels, and occasionally this process requires the engagement of the conscious mind resulting in the lucid or memorable dream event?

This would effectively mean that dreaming is part of a mechanism for our regular re-programming.


Again I appreciate the opportunity to discuss, it does force some thinking outside of the box.

WF





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Posted: Feb 10 2005, 08:59 PM
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I was very tired today and needed rest and had the most bizarre dream(s) - More than one. They were so damn real, almost nightmarish and it all had people from my past in it. People I no longer speak to as they do not believe in the things that I do, yet they surrounded me for many years until I had my real awakening in 2002.

EX: UFOs don't exist, War is a good thing, we should all be religious etc.

I didn't write about it, but it's still very fresh in my memory. I think I could write entire books on my dreams but if they are not important, why bother.

I will share the recent one I wrote up as soon as I had awoken as there may be some significance to the location as I do not recall having many actual locations in my dreams.

QUOTE
DREAM:
Feb 10, 2005
Mark J. Harper

I'm in the back seat of a small blue pick up truck with (I think my mom) and definitely my half brother.

She is driving, he's sitting next to me in the back. I'm loading bongloads in this big ole tall bong of some cheap green bud (yes I dream in color) and trying to sneak a toke while keeping my head low so the cops on the road don't see me.

I keep telling my brother about Saddam, and how he was no threat to USA, how he had been disarmed. Destroying all of his large missiles and basically being defenseless against the allied invaders.

But my half-brother gets angry with me. His eyes get a real mean look to them, and we start shouting over one another, though my voice doesn't get any louder, it's just a loud whisper. But I continue to tell him the truth and he doesn't seem to see it or refuses to.

He has an answer/rebuttal for everything I say - just like in real life which is why we don't speak anymore - (In real life, the last I spoke to him, over a year ago, he called me a bleeding heart left wing liberal and claimed Saddam was part of 9/11)


We're driving along Devonshire st. and I keep trying to smoke bong loads of that cheap green bud while constantly trying to hide from the black n white cop cars I see on the street. I spill a bunch of pot all over the back seat.

The woman driving seems to want to make it to the corner of Woodman ave and turn right... but she is now going in reverse with the engine full bore. You can hear it winding out.

There's a large truck in the right lane, which is on my left, since we are going in reverse. He's a caucasion man with bright blue eyes and long white/grey hair, but he's driving from the passenger side of the truck, and he's racing us so we cannot pass him. And he's laughing at us.

CUT:

We're still driving down Devonshire st and when we get to the corner of Woodman ave in Arleta near where I lived for 17 years and we see some officers in the street with what looks to be a car accident with a car upside down.

We pull over and get out.

There's a man lying on the ground hanging partially out of the wrecked car and there's this white webbing type material, sort of like spider webbing is on his face, coming out of his mouth and it is spreading, he's dying or being assimililated as I later discover in my dream.

Another cop tries to help, it gets him too... transfers onto his hand and moves to his face.

My mom and brother bail out of there without calling for help. All 4 of the officers that were there got nailed. When we're back in the truck, I said "Why didn't you call for help? Why didn't we help them?"

As we're driving down the road, I finally realize why they didn't help or call for help. They are part of it. And I accuse them of it. I even grab the woman with my left hand on her left side of her hair. She is no longer driving because when we got back into the little pick up truck, she is now in the front passenger seat and my half brother is driving.

I realize in the dream that they didn't help because they are part of the assimilation but I was not afraid.

We are now heading down Van Nuys blvd and we see 2 helicopters over the wash, flood control area, one has markings/numbers on it, C - something - with numbers (175? I think), but it's not like any normal helicopter, military or any other that I have ever seen in my real life. It is barely off the ground, only a few feet, while another police helicopter is hovering a few hundred feet up.

We turn left into this grassy area and drive along a short dirt road while looking to see why the copter is so low and what the police chopper is doing above this chainlink fence...

There is a lady behind this chainlink fence on the other side of the wash (flood control channel). She is a chunky blond woman with a large male lion and she has what appears to be a bag of meat in her hand.

Alongside her she has a large dog on a leash that changes to what looks like a female lion. Also, spaced out about every 20 feet or so in a row, are more female lions and I counted 3 of those little yapping terrier dogs with the hairy snouts, but they are as big as the lion and her other large dog.

We pull over again and get out of the truck.

I see tools in the grass, a pair of reddish orange handled channel lock pliers and I go to pick them up and then we see some little kids we havn't seen in decades, but they are still small. One comes running up to me and shows me a bong he just found. He's taken off the plastic bottom on it. Before he gets there, I try and get my brother to hide the bong I was holding in his jacket so that the kids don't see it.

I tell the kids the story of what we just saw with the cops and the spider webbing attacks and even describe where it's at.

Devonshire st. and Woodman ave.

I tell them it was right across the street from Devonshire liquor store and to watch out for this stuff. If they see it "get the hell out of there".

The kids are all playing, laughing and having fun. One is on her bicycle and I comment how they havn't grown much.

Then I woke up.

I typed this out immediately.

It was so real!

Peace, Mark

peace2.gif





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Posted: Feb 11 2005, 03:06 AM
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Hi All, and wow Pupp - what a dream!
When I opened my PC today, I saw this on the AOL front page:

QUOTE
The Secret World of Dreams
By Russell Grant

Our ancestors believed that dreams were messages from the gods, and in days gone by, interpreters of dreams were visited much as doctors are today. Times may have changed, but the fascination with dreams remains.

In his fascinating book An Experiment With Time, Professor Dunne put forward the idea that all time is like a river, and that it can be navigated backwards or forwards in the vessel of dreams. Sleep is the road to dreamland. And, these days, thanks to advances in medical science, we certainly know more about that than our predecessors.

Talk about synchronicity!

I have also never seen a reference to Dunnes work before, so it was bizarre to find it today just after posting about him!

Out of courtesy to Russell, I looked up his web address and include a link to further reading there.
http://www.live-astro.com/dreams/dream_introduction.php

Here is a snip related to our dream discussion.
QUOTE

Deepest sleep comes upon us almost immediately. This is followed by a shorter period of lighter sleep in which our eyeballs dart about beneath our closed lids. This period of Rapid Eye Movement - or REM - is when we dream. It happens about five times in an eight-hour period. We usually wake up after the last one, and naturally these are the dreams we remember best.

There is some evidence that women dream for longer periods than men. Perhaps they simply enjoy their dreams more! Any kind of drugs - whether stimulants or sedatives - diminish the amount of dream time. So if you're ill or taking medication, you're less likely to dream. Dreams that you have while ill can be discounted as you're reacting to the illness rather than to a normal course of events.

Some people claim they never dream, but this is simply because they don't remember their dreams as well as others. Clinical tests have proved that when so-called non-dreamers are woken during REM sleep, they give vivid accounts of the images they have just seen, which are, like real-life events, in colour. Even our pets dream. If you watch a sleeping dog or cat, you can detect their Rapid Eye Movement.

So we dream about five times a night. Does anyone here remember five dreams?
I can only recall the one when I wake, and that has mostly gone by the afternoon.

And this appears to be precognition rather than a prediction based on our assessment and analysis of the past.
QUOTE

Once I dreamt I had gone to Euston Station. I looked at the clock and it was 4.10pm. Then the clock suddenly read 7.25pm, which even in my dream I thought was odd. I kept looking at that clock and it kept changing. About a week later, a friend was going to Blackpool from Euston on the 4.10pm train.

I warned him, "Don't get on that train. Get on the next one." The 4.10pm train was derailed. If he had been on it he could have been injured or even killed. Instead he took my advice and got on the next train. It left Euston at 7.25pm.

Precognitive dreams tap directly into our psychic source through our subconscious. Not only can they produce information about real-life events, they can also tell us important things about our general state of mind. Sometimes the same dream recurs time and time again.

These dreams are important because they show us the weak and strong points of our personality. The recurring dream deals with some aspect of life that hasn't been sorted out or laid to rest - or a problem that hasn't been solved. These dreams often reflect a loss - perhaps a relationship, or another form of pleasure and excitement. Once the issue is resolved, the repetitive dream stops.
Russell Grant



Yesterday I had the (crazy?) notion that dreams are part of our reprogramming process. Since then I have found a lot of personal resonance with the concept.

I would welcome other thoughts.
Is it a crazy notion?

WF










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Posted: Feb 11 2005, 06:11 AM
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QUOTE
So if it is true that we dream many more times that we can remember and dreaming is essential for well-being, perhaps the real purpose of dreams is to gain information to give to our deeper levels, and occasionally this process requires the engagement of the conscious mind resulting in the lucid or memorable dream event?

                                                  From Without fear


I believe this is an accurate assessment. Now, if conscious involvement is only required occasionally, imagine the consequences for intentionally involving your conscious mind more and more...........an awareness of your "deeper levels" and a better understanding of yourself..................


Thanks for the link, I have work in a minute, so I'll only comment on the
"snip".........It is accurate but, I don't think it takes into account the full spectrum of dreams........for example, I have gone to sleep right after a night shift, understandably tired and dreamt immediately, I work in construction, and dreamt immediately about one of my co-workers and his hazourdous work ethic; poles were falling on me and I was being attacked by manlifts and forklifts........this lead into a short lucid dream where I decided to fly and incorporate beautiful woman......lasted not a long time buit waas awesome!!! When I woke up, it was only a few minutes later.......there was another human there who can verify and I had trouble getting back to sleep. So, based on that I am inclined that dream studies still have a ways to go.....but they're on the right track.


QUOTE
So we dream about five times a night. Does anyone here remember five dreams?I can only recall the one when I wake, and that has mostly gone by the afternoon.


I wake up more than once a night, so therefore I recall many dreams a night.....I usually make a quick assessment of the dream and let it "fall away" into oblivion....though based on my focus I sometimes retain memory for a while. Try the dream journal technique..........it really is just a matter of "training" your mind to think on that level. The training really isn't anything more than intentionally placing your attention on your subconscious.


QUOTE
Yesterday I had the (crazy?) notion that dreams are part of our reprogramming process. Since then I have found a lot of personal resonance with the concept.


Depends on what you mean by "re-programming." If you are talking about an outside influence, dreams can be manipulated by others through suggestion....though to be effective on the long term it would have to be concerted and over a reasonable amount of time.........otherwise, dreams are really the updating of your memory and environmental perception..........the more familiar you are to what consistently goes on in there, the more likely dreams can provide warning signs that you are being subversively influenced.........everything shows up on the "radar!!"

More later, gotta go

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Posted: Feb 11 2005, 06:27 AM
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Are you kidding... crazy?

This is the looney zone!
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hehehe
QUOTE
I warned him, "Don't get on that train. Get on the next one." The 4.10pm train was derailed. If he had been on it he could have been injured or even killed. Instead he took my advice and got on the next train. It left Euston at 7.25pm.

wow2.gif That is prophetic! I'd be liking freaking out a little!

I can recall several dreams a night, usually they will contain different scenes and people.

I didn't dream at all last night....well, I do not recall any dreams, which is good cause they were starting to freak me out. I think when I put my words out in public like this, or even speak out loud, changes happen... it's fricken bizarre and been happening for 3 years.

But the night before, which I didn't write down, but I still remember 2 different dreams pretty well and they were SO DAMN REAL it was uncanny.

I'll just relate a small part of the last 2 dreams here from the other night:

DREAM Feb 11
After being in a huge dept store type warehouse with my former boss and longtime friend.

(Background Info - Real Life: We were friends for like 23 yrs, actually, I was his pot connection. And in the last days of working for him, I hurt my back really bad, even fell off a ladder once and we always smoked pot all day long while working. But I noticed that something changed in me. When I was stoned, I kept making simple mistakes and his anger level changed, He got pissed off at me for little things, totally out of character for him. He was no longer a nice man to me... he changed bigtime. - I wonder if I hurt my back - was it to keep me from being able to make that fateful 20 mile walk back in June 2003??? Hmmmm.
He was a Mormon whom I tried to convince that the saucer craft were real and we havn't spoken since around 2001)

Boy do I get sidetracked here... anyways, I'm following him around the store like a puppy dog and the strange part was when we left the shopping center, I got into one of those multiple connected tram type cars like Universal Studios has and it was full of people. I was in the back and the driver hit a bump and I went flying out of my seat. I grabbed a hold of one of the poles and held on. The driver is yelling at me to get back in my seat as my body is swinging wildly about, legs flailing parallel to the ground and whipping back and forth behind me.

I tell the driver, "I can't"... I bend my arms to pull myself closer, but I cannot come down. Almost like I was flying. It was sooo real. Sort of fun though. When we stopped, I explained to the driver that I tried to pull myself back in but could not, and then he wasn't so mad at me.

Next dream - Same night: I'm in a house, looked like the old house from Arleta that we rented from Mr. Reynolds.

I'm in the hallway and my sis-in-law walks towards me as I get out of the bathroom and she asks me if we have a vacuum cleaner. She tells me that the childrens tea party is today. I had totally forgotten to clean and the place was a mess. But when I look around the house - there is NO furniture there. I'm freakin out. All the closets are empty and the house looks basically abandoned.

Ok, that's enough...sorry for being so long winded. See what happens when yer sober?

hehehe

Without Fear, thanks for the additional info - and YES, synchronicity is HERE. Some of us seem to hit the same wavelengths while others must leave the premises
(forum too).

EDIT: P.S.
Thanks Sub Volitional!

This post has been edited by PuPP on Feb 11 2005, 06:32 AM




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"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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Posted: Feb 12 2005, 09:07 AM
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Just a few points, Pupp, on the dream you posted way up there....................


QUOTE
I realize in the dream that they didn't help because they are part of the assimilation but I was not afraid.



This is an important aspect of the dream. I'm sure that when you dreamt it, you didn't think or say that you weren't afraid(???). If that's is true than, this means that you are recognising your reactions to the world. That is good. The lack of fear/anxiety frees you up to focus on details and specifics; to concentrate more on the logic of your experience handclap.gif

I still think stronglt that this is the key to dreaming; not only being able to relate the events but to recognise how you feel. In real life, we are not often aware of how a situation makes us feel until retrospection can occur. Dreams are this retrospection, in a sense. To focus on how dream events make you feel is to equate them with real life events. And isn't the whole point of life to control your reality? It starts with an understanding of yourself ..........


QUOTE
There is a lady behind this chainlink fence on the other side of the wash (flood control channel). She is a chunky blond woman with a large male lion and she has what appears to be a bag of meat in her hand.


I wanted to direct your attention to this because of the non-sequitor nature........I can't possibly even begin to offer a generalized explanation for it, much less work towards a specific..............but you can. This is one of those "you know yourself better than anyone else dealio's. So, what do lions and blonds mean to you?

Note: It doesn't have to mean anything, it is an irregular aspect of the dream, however, as the dream is mostly highlighting your thoughts towards other people in corrolation to the subversive nature of your constant attentions(conspiracies).



QUOTE
Before he gets there, I try and get my brother to hide the bong I was holding in his jacket so that the kids don't see it.


and

QUOTE
I keep trying to smoke bong loads of that cheap green bud while constantly trying to hide from the black n white cop cars I see on the street.


Interesting in that these occured at two different junctures in the dream. Essentially, you were "hiding," but for two different reasons, it appears. One out of awareness for authority and One out of concern for children.


QUOTE
I tell them it was right across the street from Devonshire liquor store and to watch out for this stuff. If they see it "get the hell out of there".


This highlights your concern and desire to explain...........Good on ya.




Continuing my gratuitous use of smilies........ miner.gif Wolverinedizzy.gif peace2.gif









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Posted: Feb 12 2005, 09:53 AM
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Hey Sub Volitional, I really have no idea what the blond lady with the sack of meat (it was in a plastic baggie BTW) and the lions, large dogs and over sized terriers meant.

It was pretty bizarre to me.

But in my dream, I was NOT afraid, even though I knew I was with the enemy who hated me.

It's why I grabbed the hair of the passenger, I was pissed off!

I am normally a non violent person and do not like hurting people.

But you are right with the part about hiding from authority and hiding the bong from the kids. That is stuff I would do in my normal waking life.

You should hear the latest dream I had yesterday during the day. I was so tired and slept for several hours.

I saw more people from my past. Some of the apelike hybrids that live among us. One of them is named Troy. I went to jr. high with him. He was a short barrel chested hybrid creation. All of his siblings looked alike, almost as if they all came from the same mold.

REAL LIFE: Around 1990, he showed up at a bar I frequented called Fantasia in Northridge Calif. I had some nice arms back then... large biceps, as I was a gymnast and worked out for many years really hard.

user posted image

user posted image

Anyways, he asks me to arm wrestle him... so I'm all drunk and oblige... but I have a cracked right elbow from when I was 15 caused by my best friend at the time - a blue eyed Mormon, also apelike, but with red hair freckle genes. He dropped me onto the concrete when we were wrestling around one day and I shattered or cracked my right elbow. It has never fully healed to this day.

So I lost the arm wrestle right handed easily to Troy the apelike hybrid, but I said ok, let's go lefty. BAD MOVE - He snapped my arm ... made it go past the edge of the table and messed up my tendon really bad. I couldn't use the arm for several weeks without severe pain. Of course I never went to the doctor. I avoid THEM unless I am dying.

Well in my dream, he was standing near a doorway, and I walked by him and patted him on his barrel chest and said - "Hi Troy" - I was NOT afraid of him, even though I know he is the enemy and he hates me.

The dream was very long... it involved me getting my cats Pookie (who I currently have and Sonny who is dead now) from one location to another, and I didn't wake up until I had secured my cat Sonny who I had to put to sleep over a year ago. He was like 18 yrs old.

It was as if, as soon as I got both of my cats to this new location, I could end the dream and NO sooner. I woke up immediately afterwards.

But throughout the dream, I kept removing like construction debris from my mouth ... scraping it out with my fingers.

Now this is somewhat like MANY other dreams I have had, where it was as if I was removing bubble gum from my tongue, over and over. It would keep forming, and I would remove it. Totally bizarre, but so fricken real, I could feel it.

The same with the construction debris... small particles of like dust and chunks... I kept constantly scraping out my mouth, the sides of my cheeks to get this crud out and it would keep forming.

My ex sweetheart from college was also in yesterdays dream. She has been in many of my dreams AND nightmares. Sometimes, she has just watched with a worried look on her face as I was chased by demons.

Those demon nightmares were mostly from 2002 and 2003 after I had my awakening.

I don't let THEM frighten me anymore as I am fully aware of what THEY can do now in my dreams.

I do not believe this is all in my head, I fully believe that THEY - the alien race that lives among us - can get into our heads - especially in our dreams.

You may not believe me, but I have experienced too much weird stuff and when you realize there IS a telepathic species living among us that can fk with us, you may understand it better, or rather easier.

Again, I truly appreciate you taking your time to analyse our dreams as I feel it IS important to try and understand what our minds are doing.

Peace, Mark




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"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
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Posted: Feb 12 2005, 11:17 AM
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QUOTE
It's why I grabbed the hair of the passenger, I was pissed off!

I am normally a non violent person and do not like hurting people.


Makes sense.........dreams are where we express can note our expressions that are usually repressed due to social pressure..........grabbing the hair is, IMO, an expression of your frustration. Which is highly logical since you're essentially combating an invisible enemy.

QUOTE
I saw more people from my past.


As in the dream with your former boss/pal; dreams center upon social interactions because they represent the most consistent "unknown." Everyone can learn and understand their physical environment; I go to work here, I shop for food here, etc.

Sociality is never ever really known, we are constantly interacting with people and never really get a feel for their thoughts regarding us; we are concerned with how other people think/feel about us because it is inherent in our nature. Humans are a social animal and society is set up in a social hierarchy of sorts. Just look at commercials that use a spokesperson and how that person is using eye contact, body positioning(females especially), voice intonation, etc. They are appealing to your social nature, for current lack of a better expression. Every day we encounter new examples of this, some subtle, some irrelevant, some notable, but the constant is that we all compare and contrast these new experiences with the old, subconsciously and in dreams.

QUOTE
Well in my dream, he was standing near a doorway, and I walked by him and patted him on his barrel chest and said - "Hi Troy" - I was NOT afraid of him,


Speaks for itself, as no doubt you know.

QUOTE
But throughout the dream, I kept removing like construction debris from my mouth ... scraping it out with my fingers.


This is important though I don't know how or why. Any recurring action/dream indicates something you are repressing or not giving your full attention. You may consider trying to figure out what this means by attempting to go over your memories and finding corrolations. The gum and construction debris are probably related to the same "issue." The brain has a tendency to shelve things together based on your evolving experience accumulation(memory bank smileNew4.gif .


QUOTE
My ex sweetheart from college was also in yesterdays dream


She left an impression on you and will probably be there in one form or another for a long time. The "worried look on her face," just means that you valued her opinion when you were together and have residual concerns of what she thinks about you. Not unusual, sweethearts usually leave an impression because of the very nature of the interaction. As an exercise to test this out.............relax for a second and visualize said person. Remember the first interactions you had and while you're doing this try and focus on your physical reaction. This/these reactions are going to be subtle in nature, but you'll most likely, if you're remembering the good times you should notice a stronger affect on the left side of the body. This is because the hormones that are associated with this person have caused an "anticipation" of the "poisitive chemical reaction." That's muscle memory on a cellular level and the association translates into a psychological one. I'll have to find a way to refine this thought because it is the basis for behaviour towards the people in our lives. How we react to people is based on how we feel about them........and this gets communicated in our dreams as well. Sorry if this doesn't make sense; I can see it clearly in my head and probably got the translation muddled.


QUOTE
I do not believe this is all in my head, I fully believe that THEY - the alien race that lives among us - can get into our heads - especially in our dreams.


It's not all in your head. That is why an understanding of our mental/physical make-up is essential. The more we understand about ourselves, the more we can let the irrelevancies go and learn the nature of anything else........education is key.


QUOTE
You may not believe me


Wrong. I do believe you. I do not go into the nature of my experience fully because I want to avoid "trying to explain it." I find that I get people to take me seriously(the ones who have spent time and effort "messing with my mind") if I learn the science behind it, ruminate on the physical reality rather than my emotional/pyschologcal state(I save that for personal reflection and find my own answers; noone else can do that for me). Suffice to say that my experience caused me to think and figure out for myself the nature of dreams because They were manipulating them. I wanted to neutralize their ability to effect me with what I have come to undestand are their tried and true techniques; they don't have any tricks up their sleeve other than the ones they were taught!! They lack an understanding beyond what they were told because it is assumed that because they live up there "bove the rest of us," they must have all the answers. That is my conclusion. Learning/knowledge is the answer for real.

QUOTE
Again, I truly appreciate you taking your time to analyse our dreams as I feel it IS important to try and understand what our minds are doing.


I've been through alot, and it has been a psychological war, IMO(probably mostly from my point of view). Not only is this helping me to refine that which I believe to be a logical explanation, but if I can help, I will. IMO, I bring a very rational mindset to the table and want to 'splain it how I see it.



RW






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Posted: Feb 12 2005, 12:05 PM
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Hey Sub Volitional, I gauge a persons worth or value by how they make me feel when I read their words, whether they are directed towards me or not...

I can be easily upset, or made uncomfortable by a mere few hurtful words. It like... raises my blood pressure... makes my armpits sweat, gets my anxiety level going... and I KNOW it is NOT good for me.

But, after pouring my heart out in my dreams and lifes little stories, you come thru as a solid person of integrity, willing and trying to share what you know or believe in a non-condensending "I know it all" manner or putting me down as a fruitcake.

That means a lot to me and shows your true character IMO.

Yes, My ex sweetheart and I still have occasional contact, though she's married now with children, she still sends me an XMAS card every year. One of the only cards I get in fact.

She's a long haired brunette beauty from Guam and married to a carrot top guy who seems like a really nice man and is good to the kids.

The last I saw her though, she had a very worried look on her face, much like in the dream... it was in 2002 when I was under THEIR mind control/religious spell and I think she knew it.

The sad thing is... I have no friends anymore in real life, except for those online. Everyone I have known for 20 plus years I have either cut off contact with them, or viceaversa.

I truly feel most are/were part of this alien invasion... here to distract me, take up my time, not allow me to think for myself, to distract me and play video games, or porn, golfing, go bar hopping etc... and not be able to grow spiritually, mentally etc.

I'm so glad you can relate to the control of those who think they can manipulate our minds. (and actually do!)

Seriously though, I really don't know what's up with the chewing gum thing on the tongue, or the most recent, construction debris in my cheeks. It was totally different than anything that I was used to.

Some of my dreams, I can almost understand why... like the pot stuff... it's been a long time since I've had a toke, and I probably miss it.

But the lions, the large terrier dogs, the blond lady with the meat sack, the helicopters, the dying officers.... heck, I have no idea what that stuff was supposed to mean in relation to my life.

But if you're up to it... I'll share my future dreams here... but only if you say so... otherwise, I'll just forget about them.

Thanks again for taking your time and trying to help us understand what's really going on in our minds. That means a lot to me!



Hey Without Fear.... Where's your dreams???

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hehehe




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"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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Posted: Feb 12 2005, 05:52 PM
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Wow, amazing topic! I keep meaning to say something, but get lost in thought reading through it and forget what I had to say smileNew4.gif It really gets ya thinking.

I think of it sort of like a polygraph--the better you undertand yourself, the better a "baseline" you have. A better baseline makes it easier for you to spot when something's off and differentiate between what comes from within, and what comes from outside manipulation.

Seeing as how we're sharing dreams here, I've been wondering if anyone else has had dreams that they weren't in, or has any idea what it might mean?

I had one about a year ago, I believe. I wasn't in it. As far as the person who's eyes I was seeing through was concerned, I didn't exist. Most of the dream played out in a third-person perspective until near the end, when it switched into a first-person view, but I had a strong sense that I was that person. I was a short man with medium-length red hair, and judging by the clothes, I'd say the timeframe was mid-1970's. I was sitting on a counter-top at the rear of the aisle in a large airplane. The plane was packed with passengers, flying through thick fog at night. There were quite a few of us at the back of the plane, some people who I knew and others that I didn't. I was joking around, making them all laugh (I wish I was that relaxed around new people...). There were a couple of stewardesses putting around in the aisle. This went on for what seemed to be quite a while. Everyone else on the plane began to look nervous, but I carried on, oblivious to whatever was frightenning them. One of the stewardesses came back looking panicked and told us to brace ourselves, so we all did. I wasn't afraid, but I was curious as to what exactly was going on. Then the plane started to roll...I could feel my stomach turning horribly. The plane rolled over a few times before levelling out.

I never got the sense that anything was wrong, or that we were in any kind of danger. I stormed up towards the cockpit; I was angry with the pilot, I'd somehow come to the conclusion that the rolling was because the pilot had gotten bored and decided to have some fun!

When I got to the front of the plane and opened the door, the plane shrunk and all the passengers disappeared. There were three men--the pilot, the co-pilot, both in flight suits and masks, and an important looking man standing behind the pilot. The pilot looked at me angrily and said "What the hell are you doing here, and how on earth did you get up here?"

The man behind the pilot said that I was on a US fighter jet, and that they had been under hostile fire (hence the stomach-churning manuvering). I even had to chuckle a little in my dream, because the way he spoke positively REEKED of Holywood. He said something about me having likely teleported on board through a hull breach before I woke up.


This the first and only time in my life that I'd ever had a dream I wasn't a part of, and I woke up feeling very strange blinkNEW.gif




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Posted: Feb 13 2005, 09:17 AM
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QUOTE
But, after pouring my heart out in my dreams and lifes little stories, you come thru as a solid person of integrity, willing and trying to share what you know or believe....


Thanks, that is good to here every once in while because I do strive in that direction....

QUOTE
But if you're up to it... I'll share my future dreams here... but only if you say so... otherwise, I'll just forget about them.


Forgetting them is exactly what this thread is designed to prevent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely share your dreams............I'll give you my two cents if you provide yours as well...........interpretation is relative and impossible to do without more than one perspective........that goes for everyone here.......please share your thoughts, we need all points of view.

QUOTE
Thanks again for taking your time and trying to help us understand what's really going on in our minds. That means a lot to me!


No problem.... this means alot to me as well. matrixnew3.gif bustingupNEW3.gif toothache.gif




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