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> Terri Schiavo Died -13 days - No Food and Water, Eye Witness Account and Sentenced to Die


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Posted: Mar 21 2005, 07:17 PM
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I too was originally siding with the husband...

I don't believe that anyone should be held on life support against their wishes.

I was under the impression that Terri was in a coma, on full life support and with no brain activity. As I understand it, that's what a "persistend vegetative state" is, unless I'm mistaken...

Since I've become aware of what her condition really is, I find it absurd that killing her is even being considered.

QUOTE
"Michael would say 'When is she going to die?' 'Has
she died yet?' and 'When is that bitch gonna die?'

Yup, and this guy's just looking after her best interests and making sure that her wishes are adhered to!




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Posted: Mar 23 2005, 01:26 AM
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ABC News Poll on Terri Schiavo Case Uses Inaccurate Question Email this article
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by Steven Ertelt
LifeNews.com Editor
March 22, 2005

Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- ABC News is being accused of using an inaccurate polling question to determine the attitude of Americans on the plight of Terri Schiavo, the disabled woman who is being starved to death by her estranged husband.

In a poll that has been the subject of hundreds of news reports across the country, ABC News asks respondents whether they "or oppose the decision to remove Schiavo’s feeding tube."

However, the question included a lengthy introduction that claimed, "Doctors say she has no consciousness and her condition is irreversible" and that Terri "has been on life support for 15 years."

However, Terri has never been on life support and breathes entirely on her own without the assistance of a ventilator.

Despite the ABC News question, dozens of doctors have filed statements supporting Terri Schiavo's parents' assertion that Terri is not unconscious and interacts with them on a regular basis.

In addition, Dr. William Hammesfahr, a Nobel Prize nominated neurologist who is an internationally recognized expert on cases of brain-injured patients, believes Terri has a good chance of partially recovering.

"We, and others I know, have treated many patients worse than Terri and have seen them regain independence and dignity," Hammesfahr, who has treated Terri on three occasions, said earlier this month.

In an article on the poll, WordNetDaily opined that it was no surprise the ABC News survey found more Americans support remove Terri's feeding tube.

"Since to most people, the phrase "no consciousness" suggests a coma and "life support" suggests a ventilator or other machinery, it's not surprising that many Americans -- visualizing a comatose woman in a heart-lung machine -- would consider Schiavo's life not worth living," the online new service wrote.

Raimundo Rojas, the Hispanic outreach director for the National Right to Life Committee, has been following the Terri Schiavo saga closely and says the media has been thoroughly biased.

"The press has the facts wrong, they have consistently used the wrong language, and there is a repeated effort in all that you read and here in the media an urgency to sway the American people that Terri is somehow less then human," Rojas told LifeNews.com.

Related news stories:
Terri Schiavo Still Responsive Despite Three Days of Starvation

Media Bias in Terri Schiavo Case at Extreme Levels in AP, Reuters Reports

Terri Schiavo Tried to Tell Parents' Attorney She Wanted to Live

Related web sites:
Terri Schiavo's parents - http://www.terrisfight.org



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Posted: Mar 23 2005, 01:29 AM
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just check with any nurse, insulin could easily be taken, heck i think you can now buy it otc at some pharmacies, oh and my understanding is that mikey became a nurse to care for his wifey forever, hmmmmm wonder what the real motives and intentions and actions were..............

Former Terri Schiavo Nurse: Terri Interacts, Michael Refused Care Email this article
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by Steven Ertelt
LifeNews.com Editor
March 22, 2005

Pinellas Park, FL (LifeNews.com) -- A former nurse for Terri Schiavo who treated the disabled woman in the mid 1990s says Terri would interact with her family and staff and would even say some words in an attempt to communicate.

Carla Sauer Iyer is a registered nurse who provided Terri with care at a convalescence home from April 1995 to August 1996 and told Fox News in an interview that Terri was alert and aware.

"Her cognitive abilities including laughing, talking, letting you know she was in pain," Iyer told FOX News. She said Terri could say words like "mommy," "help me," "hi" and "pain."

While Terri stayed at the home, Iyer said nurses were always able to feed her with thick liquids such as pudding and Jell-O. Terri also had accurate relexes to various stimulation.

In the Fox News interview, Iyer also said that Terri's estranged husband Michael would complain when staff would take care of her or feed her. He would also refused to provide her with any rehabilitative treatment.

"[T]hat's therapy -- take that washcloth out," he would tell Iyer.

Iyer said she consented to the interview "to let the truth be known, to let the people know. I was one of the few people who was able to see Terri. She was able to talk, communicate with staff ... I want the public to know the truth."

She told Fox News' "Fox and Friends" program she believes Michael "wants her to die" when asked why Michael and his attorneys were not telling the public these details.

Iyer was eventually fired by the home because of a disagreement with Michael where she claimed he injected her with insulin.

After one visit by Michael in Terri's room for 20 minutes with the door shut, Iyer found Terri lethargic and "crying hysterically."

She checked Terri's blood sugar levels and they were barely showing any reading on the glucometer, she told Fox News. She also saw a vial of "insulin concealed in the trash bin."

Iyer said there were needle marks underneath Terri's breast, under her arms, and in her groin area.

She went to police with the details and then told administrators at the facility, who were upset she didn't report to them first.

Related news stories:
Terri Schiavo Still Responsive Despite Three Days of Starvation

ABC News Poll on Terri Schiavo Case Uses Inaccurate Question

Terri Schiavo Tried to Tell Parents' Attorney She Wanted to Live

Related web sites:
Terri Schiavo's parents - http://www.terrisfight.org


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Posted: Mar 23 2005, 01:37 AM
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Tuesday, March 22, 2005

What they're not telling you about Terri Schiavo

As the legal wrangles over Terri Schindler Schiavo continue, it seems the genesis of these events has become lost in the mist of time. Is anyone mentioning that the facts of the case indicate that Michael Schiavo should really be facing attempted murder charges for causing injuries which initally led to Terri's brain damage.

Her original cardiac arrest is widely believed to be due a potassium imbalance. However a girlfriend of Terri's testified in a 2000 legal hearing that the couple had a violent argument on the day of Terri's collapse.

In further testimony neurologist William Hammesfahr, said Terri's neck injuries were consistent with attempted strangulation:
"Neurologist William Hammesfahr, petitioned by Anderson, testified that he'd only seen "this peculiar constellation of injuries," referencing her rigid neck and cardiac arrest, in a case of attempted strangulation."
And a doctor who reviewed a body scan uncovered by her legal team says: "Somebody worked her over real good." The medical evidence showed fractures of her ribs, neck, both sacroiliac joints, and both knees and ankles. Other doctors concluded Terri was the victim of severe physical abuse.
Another aspect in considering the fate of Terri, is that in 1996 a Tennessee policeman in a similar state for eight years, suddenly stirred and started talking. For 18 hours, he chatted normally with relatives, recalling family events, telling his two sons he loved them.


posted by Fintan, BreakForNews.com
at 10:03 PM  

http://wagnews.blogspot.com/2005/03/what-t...-you-about.html









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Posted: Mar 23 2005, 08:26 AM
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I've been following this case from abroad and I just wanted to post my thoughts about this.

There are stories about violence, bulimia, wishes that parents have and her husband has... but what about Terri's feelings and wishes?!

I hope I won't hurt anyone's feelings because this is how I think about it - as a woman, daughter, mother and a wife myself.

****
Once Terri was a vibrant, healthy woman... taking care of her family,
helping out with the children's schoolwork, baking cakes, maybe she enjoyed it when her children brought home friends so that the house felt energized... she was gossiping with neighbours and doing fun things with friends... watching her favourite TV-program every week... maybe writing small poems when she felt happy or sad... maybe jogging in the park... smelling her favourite roses when they bloomed in her garden... she was experiencing ups and downs in life…

She was alive and living her life with family.

Now? She's still alive... but not living... just existing... sensing that people visit her... but she might not be able to follow their conversations... she might sometimes get glimpses of memories by faces that she sees or voices that she hears... but maybe her brain wont' let her know what, who or why...

Maybe she's able to look out the window... she can tell a sunny day from a rainy day... but she might not be able to understand or remember what the difference mean... She can see people walk or run outside... but she might not be able to remember what the difference mean...

She's not the woman she used to be... she has lost her identity... personality... she's not the one that people once knew - neither as a daughter, mother or wife...
does she really want to be this new woman living this life in the hospital?

She might want her children to remember her as the mother she was, not the shadow she has become...
she might want her parents to remember her as the daughter she was, not the shadow she has become...
she might want her husband to remember her as the woman she was, not the shadow she has become...

She might sometime in the past have said that if she was ever turning into a "state of living" like this... she wanted someone to pull the plug...
She has been living like this for 15 years now - in a shadow land in-between life and death...
***

I've told my husband to help me to die if I end up like this, because I don't want to live a life in a hospital like this. I want people to remember me as the person I was when I was living my life.

Maybe Terri did too? We don't know that.

I don't know if I made any sense rambling this down... ROSEBLOOM.GIF


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Posted: Mar 23 2005, 09:09 AM
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Mike Says It's 'The Most Natural Way To Die'
  


It's More Like Torture   
   From Patricia Doyle, PhD 


dr_p_doyle@hotmail.com

http://www.rense.com/general63/procd.htm  
  3-22-5    
                Hello, Jeff - If it is such a natural way to die and  so painless then maybe we should like Michael Schiavo in a room for 10  days, no food, and no water and see if he thinks it is such a "gentle  death."    Patty    By Wesley J. Smith  First Published 11-12-3     Many who support Terri Schiavo's threatened dehydration  assert that removing a feeding tube from a profoundly cognitively disabled  person results in a painless and gentle ending. But is this really true?  After all, it would be agonizing if you or I were locked in a room for  two weeks and deprived of all food and water. So, why should we believe  that cognitively disabled patients experience the deprivation differently  simply because they receive nourishment through a feeding tube instead  of by mouth?     An accurate discussion of this sensitive issue requires  the making of proper and nuanced distinctions about the consequences of  removing nourishment from incapacitated patients. This generally becomes  an issue in one of the following two diametrically differing circumstances:     (1) Depriving food and water from profoundly cognitively  disabled persons like Terri who are not otherwise dying, a process that  causes death by dehydration over a period of 10-14 days. As I will illustrate  below, this may cause great suffering.     (2) Not forcing food and water upon patients who have  stopped eating and drinking as part of the natural dying process. This  typically occurs, for example, at the end stages of cancer when patients  often refuse nourishment because the disease has distorted their senses  of hunger and thirst. In these situations, being deprived of unwanted food  and water when the body is already shutting down does not cause a painful  death.     Advocates who argue that it is appropriate to dehydrate  cognitively disabled people often sow confusion about the suffering such  patients may experience by inadvertently, or perhaps intentionally, blurring  the difference between these two distinct situations. For example, when  Michael Schiavo, Terri's husband, and his attorney, George Felos, appeared  on the October 27, 2003 edition of "Larry King Live" the following  exchange occurred:     KING: When a feeding tube is removed, as it was planned  [for Terri], is that a terrible death?     SCHIAVO: No. It's painless and probably the most natural  way to die.     FELOS: When someone's terminally ill, let's say a cancer  patient, they lose interest in eating. And literally, they--by choice--they  stop eating.     SCHIAVO: Cancer patients, they stop eating for two to  three weeks. Do we force them to eat? No, we don't. That's their choice.     Later in the interview, Schiavo reiterated the assertion  in a response to a telephoned question:     CALLER: Does it bother you that the death is so slow?     SCHIAVO: Removing somebody's feeding tube is very painless.  It is a very easy way to die. Probably the second best way to die, the  first being an aneurysm.     Yes, it is true that when people are actively dying from  terminal disease, they often refuse food and water. The disease makes the  food and water repulsive to them. In such circumstances, it is medically  inappropriate to force food and water into a person who is actively rejecting  it. Indeed, doing so could cause suffering.     But this isn't what is happening to Terri. She isn't  dying of cancer. Her body isn't shutting down as part of the natural dying  process. Indeed, she is not dying at all--unless her food and water is  taken away.     What happens to non-terminally ill people with cognitive  disabilities whose feeding tubes are removed? Do they suffer from the process?     When I conducted research on this question in preparation  for writing my book "Forced Exit," I asked St. Louis neurologist  William Burke these very questions. Here is what he told me:     A conscious [cognitively disabled] person would feel  it just as you or I would. They will go into seizures. Their skin cracks,  their tongue cracks, their lips crack. They may have nosebleeds because  of the drying of the mucus membranes, and heaving and vomiting might ensue  because of the drying out of the stomach lining. They feel the pangs of  hunger and thirst. Imagine going one day without a glass of water! Death  by dehydration takes ten to fourteen days. It is an extremely agonizing  death.  Dr. Burke opposes removing feeding tubes from cognitively  disabled people and so some might dismiss his opinion as biased. But Minnesota  neurologist Ronald Cranford's pro-dehydration testimony in the Robert Wendland  case--Cranford also testified that Terri's feeding tube should be removed--supports  much of what Dr. Burke asserted. While Cranford called seizures "rare,"  his detailed description of the dehydration process reveals its gruesome  reality:     After seven to nine days [from commencing dehydration]  they begin to lose all fluids in the body, a lot of fluids in the body.  And their blood pressure starts to go down. When their blood pressure goes  down, their heart rate goes up. . . . Their respiration may increase and  then . . .  the blood is shunted to the central part of the body  from the periphery of the body. So, that usually two to three days prior  to death, sometimes four days, the hands and the feet become extremely  cold. They become mottled. That is you look at the hands and they have  a bluish appearance. And the mouth dries a great deal, and the eyes dry  a great deal and other parts of the body become mottled. And that is because  the blood is now so low in the system it's shunted to the heart and other  visceral organs and away from the periphery of the body . . .     Most of the time, we never know for sure what a starved  or dehydrated person experiences. But in at least one case--that of a young  woman who had her tube feeding stopped for eight days and lived to tell  the tale--we have direct evidence of the agony that forced dehydration  may cause.     At age 33, Kate Adamson collapsed from a devastating  and incapacitating stroke. She was utterly unresponsive and was diagnosed  as being in a persistent vegetative state (PVS). Because of a bowel obstruction  she developed, her nourishment was stopped so that doctors could perform  surgery.     Adamson eventually recovered sufficiently to author "Kate's  Journey: Triumph Over Adversity," in which she tells the terrifying  tale. Rather than being unconscious with no chance of recovery as her doctors  believed, she was actually awake and aware but unable to move any part  of her body voluntarily. (This is known as a "locked-in state.")  When she appeared recently on "The O'Reilly Factor,"host Bill  O'Reilly asked Adamson about the dehydration experience:     O'REILLY: When they took the feeding tube out, what went  through your mind?     ADAMSON: When the feeding tube was turned off for eight  days, I thought I was going insane. I was screaming out in my mind, "Don't  you know I need to eat?" And even up until that point, I had been  having a bagful of Ensure as my nourishment that was going through the  feeding tube. At that point, it sounded pretty good. I just wanted something.  The fact that I had nothing, the hunger pains overrode every thought I  had.     O'REILLY: So you were feeling pain when they removed  your tube?     ADAMSON: Yes. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. To say that--especially  when Michael [Schiavo] on national TV mentioned last week that it's a pretty  painless thing to have the feeding tube removed--it is the exact opposite.  It was sheer torture, Bill.     O'REILLY: It's just amazing.     ADAMSON: Sheer torture . . .     In preparation for this article, I contacted Adamson  for more details about the torture she experienced while being dehydrated.  She told me about having been operated upon (to remove the bowel obstruction)  with inadequate anesthesia when doctors believed she was unconscious:     The agony of going without food was a constant pain that  lasted not several hours like my operation did, but several days. You have  to endure the physical pain and on top of that you have to endure the emotional  pain. Your whole body cries out, "Feed me. I am alive and a person,  don't let me die, for God's Sake! Somebody feed me."  Unbelievably, she described being deprived of food and  water as "far worse" than experiencing the pain of abdominal  surgery. Despite having been on an on an IV saline solution, Adamson still  had horrible thirst:     I craved anything to drink. Anything. I obsessively visualized  drinking from a huge bottle of orange Gatorade. And I hate orange Gatorade.  I did receive lemon flavored mouth swabs to alleviate dryness but they  did nothing to slack my desperate thirst.     Apologists for dehydrating patients like Terri might  respond that Terri is not conscious and locked-in as Adamson was but in  a persistent vegetative state and thus would feel nothing. Yet, the PVS  diagnosis is often mistaken--as indeed it was in Adamson's case. And while  the courts have all ruled that Terri is unconscious based on medical testimony,  this is strongly disputed by other medical experts and Terri's family who  insist that she is interactive with them. Moreover, it is undisputed that  whatever her actual level of awareness, Terri does react to painful stimuli.  Intriguingly, her doctor testified he prescribes pain medication for her  every month during the course of her menstrual period.     Beyond the Terri Schiavo Case, it is undisputed that  conscious cognitively disabled patients are dehydrated in nursing homes  and hospitals throughout the country almost as a matter of routine. Dr.  Cranford, for example, openly admitted in his Wendland testimony that he  removes feeding tubes from conscious patients. Thus, many other people  may also have experienced the agony described by Adamson and worse, given  that dehydrating to death goes on for about a week longer than she experienced.     At this point, defenders of removing feeding tubes from  people with profound cognitive disabilities might claim that whatever painful  sensations dehydration may cause, these patients receive palliating drugs  to ensure that their deaths are peaceful. But note: Adamson either did  not receive such medications, or if she did, they didn't work. Moreover,  because these disabled people usually can't communicate, it is impossible  to know precisely what they experience. Thus, when asked in a deposition  what he would do to prevent Robert Wendland from suffering during his dehydration,  Dr. Cranford responded that he would give morphine but that the dose would  be "arbitrary" because "you don't know how much he's suffering,  you don't know how much aware he is . . . You're guessing at the dose."  At trial, Cranford suggested he might have to put Wendland into a coma,  a bitter irony considering that he had struggled over many months to regain  consciousness.     The time has come to face the gut wrenching possibility  that conscious cognitively disabled people whose feeding tubes are removed--as  opposed to patients who are actively dying and choose to stop eating--may  die agonizing deaths. This, of course, has tremendous relevance in the  Terri Schiavo case and many others like it. Indeed, the last thing anyone  wants is for people to die slowly and agonizingly of thirst, desperately  craving a refreshing drink of orange Gatorade they know will never come.     Wesley J. Smith is a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute  and an attorney and consultant for the International Task Force on Euthanasia  and Assisted Suicide. His current book is the revised and updated "Forced  Exit: The Slippery Slope From Assisted Suicide to Legalized Murder."        Correction appended 11/13/03: The article originally  stated that Kate Adamson had been deprived of nourishment in an attempt  to end her life. In fact, the dehydration was being done in attempt to  alleviate a bowel obstruction. The painful surgery Adamson refers to was  originally referred to as surgery to insert a feeding tub. It was actually  surgery to remove the bowel obstruction, which is a more involved procedure.  
    Patricia A. Doyle, PhD  Please visit my "Emerging Diseases" message  board at: http://www.clickitnews.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?  
  Cat=&Board=emergingdiseases  Zhan le Devlesa tai sastimasa  Go with God and in Good Health



interesting isnt it, how we would not starve and dehydrate to death our animal companions, in fact i would be it is illegal in many places, as it is "inhumane"

go figure..............






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Posted: Mar 23 2005, 02:29 PM
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better late than never, cannot even guess why they have not intervened before now.


STARVATION: DAY 6
State might
seize Terri

Department of Children and Families
cites law protecting vulnerable adults

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: March 23, 2005
3:06 p.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

With Terri Schiavo now in her sixth day without food or water, Florida's Department of Children and Families says it might remove the brain-injured woman by force, if necessary, from the hospice where she has lived the past four years.


Robert Schindler points to the Woodside Hospice in Pinellas Park, Fla., where his brain-injured daughter resides. (Photo: David Nee)

Department secretary Lucy Hadi told the Palm Beach Post her staff is relying on a state law giving authority to intervene on behalf of a vulnerable adult "suffering from abuse or neglect that presents a risk of death or serious physical injury."

Schiavo's feeding tube was removed Friday by a court order requested by her husband, Michael Schiavo, who contends Terri had expressed a wish to not live under her present condition. Parents Robert and Mary Schindler dispute the court's finding that their daughter is in a "persistant vegetative state," citing numerous physicians who believe she is responsive and could benefit from therapy.


At a news conference this afternoon, Gov. Jeb Bush confirmed the DCF, under his authority, is considering the move.

Bush said new information has come to light warranting intervention, including a review of Terri Schiavo's condition by neurologist Dr. William Cheshire, who claims she may have been misdiagnosed. Cheshire believes Schiavo to be in a "minimally conscious state," not a "persistant vegetative state" as courts have determined.

"It is imperative that she be stablized so the DCF team can fulfill their statute to review the facts surrounding the case," Bush said.

Hadi said DCF must file a petition to remove Terri Schiavo from the Pinellas Park, Fla., hospice but could take action without judicial approval if the department believes it's warranted.

The law says emergency medical treatment can be given to the vulnerable adult as long as "such treatment does not violate a known health care advance directive prepared by the vulnerable adult."

Terri Schiavo did not have a written directive, but courts have backed her husband's claims that she made her wishes known orally in informal conversations.

The court history would not prevent DCF from taking action, however, according to Hadi.

"We're not compelled to look at prior judicial proceedings," Hadi told the Post. "What we're compelled to look at is the presenting circumstance and any allegation of abuse and neglect that we've received. So we have to deal with those and fulfill our statutory responsibility, notwithstanding anything else that may have gone on before."

She insisted the court decisions upholding Michael Schiavo are questionable.

"There's nothing about this case that has been clear-cut, except our concern," Hadi said. "We're doing everything we can to be of assistance."

Meanwhile, a coalition of religious and political groups is urging President Bush and his brother Florida Gov. Jeb Bush to use their executive powers to order police to take Terri Schiavo into protective custody.

Earlier today, the Schindlers asked a federal appeals court to review immediately its three-judge panel's denial of a motion to restore the feeding tube.

The request for an "expedited rehearing" of the full 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals came 10 hours after the panel said in a 2-1 ruling that the parents ''failed to demonstrate a substantial case on the merits of any of their claims.''

Today's ruling was the latest legal blow for the Schindlers. Doctors have said Schiavo could survive one to two weeks without water and nutrients.

Michael Schiavo's lawyer, George Felos, said both sides were likely to pursue their appeals all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Schiavo collapsed under disputed circumstances Feb. 25, 1990, suffering severe brain damage when her heart stopped momentarily. Her husband attributes the collapse to an eating disorder, but the Schindlers strongly suspect he tried to strangle her.

The Schindlers have pleaded with Michael Schiavo to divorce their daughter, pointing out his live-in relationship with another woman, with whom he has two children.




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Posted: Mar 23 2005, 02:36 PM
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It is just beginning folks,


Bush let hospitals in Texas end lives over family's objections

By Craig Gordon
Newsday
Posted March 22 2005

WASHINGTON · As Texas governor, George W. Bush signed a law that allows hospitals to pull the plug on critically ill patients despite family objections -- the kind of court-authorized move the president and fellow Republicans are challenging in the Terri Schiavo case.

Just last Tuesday, the Texas law resulted in what some call a U.S. first, when a Houston hospital cut off life support for a badly deformed 6-month-old after his mother lost a court challenge. The baby died almost immediately.





Democrats and some medical ethicists are citing the 1999 Texas law to charge that Bush's position in the Schiavo case is hypocritical compared to the stance he took as governor.

"The Texas statute that Bush signed authorized the ending of the life, even over the parents' protest. And what he's doing here is saying, `The parents are protesting. You shouldn't stop,'" said John Paris, a medical ethicist at Boston College.

A hospital association lawyer who helped draft the Texas law said it would have allowed for the removal of Schiavo's feeding tube if all legal challenges had been exhausted because the Texas law would make her husband the primary decision-maker.

The White House said Monday that Bush's position is consistent, and that the Texas bill focused on expanding the rights of the critically ill and their families to prevent hospitals and doctors from denying life-saving treatment.

Bush spokesman Scott McClellan said Bush vetoed 1997 legislation that would have put into law Texas hospital policies that gave families virtually no protections and as little as 72 hours to find alternate care after a hospital decided to stop treatment.

Under the 1999 law, another White House official said, Bush expanded that time to 10 days and authorized family members to seek extensions in court but acknowledge that if the challenges fell short, "under the legislation, the hospital still could authorize the end of life."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/flo...la-news-florida

story lead from breakfornews.com



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Posted: Mar 23 2005, 03:07 PM
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Blue Eyed, I hear ya. If I was unable to wipe my own ass, I don't think I'd wanna live either.

BUT....

- I would not wish to be starved to death - deprived of food and water.

If I say to take me out - IF I say so - give me a lethal injection at least.


Starlyte, thanks for your contributions. Tis truly sad!

To starve someone to death is pure torture and agony.

We might as well just dump her in the Sahara Desert or Death Valley and pick her up in 3 days after she's expired.

This is a travesty of humanity if she is allowed to be starved to death.

A pure sign that the forces of evil truly rule over us all.

Why is the senate, congress, executive and judicial branch of the US govt doing nothing to save this woman?????

Is she being ritually sacrificed?




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Posted: Mar 23 2005, 04:08 PM
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Is she being ritually sacrificed?


i have just started to think about this and along these lines too, would have to go back and check all the dates. just havent had time to go there yet.

in all the time i have followed this, i cannot imagine what is not being given out info wise, to mainstream public. the continual vegetative state, and she is not that, although i am no brain surgeon, i am a nurse for many years and this is absolutely, deliberately incorrect and misleading to the masses that read it, to allow them swallow it down.

it has been difficult for me to follow and honestly at times i have questioned the parents too, the lack of pushing this out or mandating some sort of rehab, but it appears for some reason, i cant figure yet, bigger and more forceful and powerful personnas may be involved.

an independent panel of investigators should surely be looking at this, and i too have read info from wesley j smith, terri is not the first and it is and has been ongoing, she got publicity somehow finally.

it is soooooo important to have a living will and wishes known to all, but at terris age, even as a nurse i wouldnt have, and still, it would depend on the circumstances. (funny mikey swore his undying love and devotion in court to win that law suit, even became a nurse, lots there, then he had his v8 moment, after the award, that terri did not want to live like this)

would really like to see rehab done with her, bet she would go quite far, not sure, it is far enough for me, but that is me, not her or her family, and i am not in that situation now. really wonder tho, with the rehab, if she couldnt make her wishes known............

one thing for sure, mikey schiavo, is not the one to make or be making decisions on her care. but i am damn sure, he is afraid that terri may someday be able to communicate a few things........

very sadly this has all been even worse, as my dear cousin was in an accident last monday. victim in the high speed police chase in michigan. police and perp walked away, she was unresponsive for a week, now just in and out but off the vent and breathing on her own. hasnt moved one side of her body yet either. she has 2 kids, 14 and 7, mary is 7 and named after me. gwen, is i think, one of the most beautiful persons i have ever known, inside and out. i know her family, who hasnt left the hospital, would want her to live even if she had an abusive dip shit hubby, maybe even more. an old friend of mine lost her infant son a few years back in another high speed police chase, i really just cannot believe this has happened again.

the older i get, surprisingly for my job, the more conservative i get, and the more i wonder. the schiavo case made me rethink lots, we do live in a very disposable society. i can tell you, for i see it, what happens with patients does depend on the family, the hospital and many factors..........and, i look at the world, even amerika, have a cousin just called up from national guard, who will be deployed in june to iraq, sometimes i just cant stand it.

all is done in the name of money, blood money, oil money. we are all so addicted to the oil, yes we were set up, but past time to look at how to detox.

enuf of my ramblings because i have way too many right now. will just add, pupp, know you talk about what you feel and think is going down, dreams visions you had, lets just say, this happened to me with terri schiavo, and why i have worked so hard. amerika has seen nothing like they will after this, i think.


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Posted: Mar 23 2005, 05:10 PM
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"Meanwhile, President Bush suggested that he and Congress had done their best to help the parents prolong Schiavo's life, and the White House said it had no further legal options."
uh , yeah buddy not! ya got that dang patriot act x3 out no? and what about the deal doing in the baby over mamas objections.hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Jeb Bush seeks custody of Terri Schiavo

March 24, 2005 - 10:40AM

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Video of Schiavo not accurate, say experts
Where do you stand?

The parents of Amerian woman Terri Schiavo saw their options vanish one by one today as a federal appeals court refused to re-insert her feeding tube and the Florida Legislature decided not to intervene in the epic struggle.

Refusing to give up, Florida Governor Jeb Bush sought court permission to take custody of Schiavo.

The desperate flurry of activity came as President George W Bush suggested Congress and the White House had done all they could to keep the severely brain-damaged woman alive.

As of this afternoon, Schiavo had gone five full days without food or water; doctors have said she could survive one to two weeks.

Ten protesters were arrested outside her hospice for trying to bring her water.

"When I close my eyes at night, all I can see is Terri's face in front of me, dying, starving to death," Mary Schindler said outside the Pinellas Park hospice. "Please, someone out there, stop this cruelty. Stop the insanity. Please let my daughter live."

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The Schindlers have vowed to take their fight to the US Supreme Court, which refused to get involved previously.

Schiavo's tube was pulled on Friday afternoon with a Florida judge's approval. By late yesterday, her eyes were sunken and her skin, lips and tongue were parched, said Barbara Weller, a lawyer for the Schindlers.

Schiavo suffered brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped briefly from a chemical imbalance believed to have been brought on by an eating disorder. Court-appointed doctors say she is in a persistent vegetative state with no hope of recovery.

Her parents argue that she could get better and that she would never have wanted to be cut off from food and water. Schiavo's husband, Michael Schiavo, has argued that his wife told him she would not want to be kept alive artificially, and a state judge has repeatedly ruled in his favour.

The battle played out on several fronts today.

A three-judge panel from the Atlanta-based 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals ruled against the family early today, and hours later the full court refused to reconsider in a 10-2 vote.

Governor Jeb Bush and the state's social services agency filed a petition in state court to take custody of Schiavo and, presumably, reconnect her feeding tube. It cites new allegations of neglect and challenges Schiavo's diagnosis as being in a persistent vegetative state. The request is based on the opinion of a neurologist working for the state who observed Schiavo at her bedside but did not conduct an examination of her.

The Florida Legislature also jumped back into the fray, but senators rejected a bill that would have prohibited patients like Schiavo from being denied food and water if they did not express their wishes in writing. The measure was rejected 21-18.

The Legislature stepped in before, in 2003, and Schiavo's feeding tube was reinserted. But "Terri's Law" was later struck down by the state Supreme Court as an unconstitutional attempt to interfere in the courts.

The Senate vote today came after a bitter debate, with Terri Schiavo's brother, Bobby Schindler, watching from the gallery above the floor.

Senate Democratic Leader Les Miller warned: "By the time the ink is dry on the governor's signature, it will be declared unconstitutional, just like it was before."

A lawyer for Michael Schiavo said he was pleased by what happened in the appeals court. But he was bothered that the governor was attempting to intervene again.

"They have no more power than you or I or a person walking down the street to say we have the right to take Terri Schiavo," lawyer George Felos said.

Meanwhile, President Bush suggested that he and Congress had done their best to help the parents prolong Schiavo's life, and the White House said it had no further legal options.

AP


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Posted: Mar 23 2005, 05:58 PM
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Starlyte, I have a share in your compasison for Terri. I ventured onto the GLP forum today and posted the following on several threads:

Quote posted by an AC on GLP:
"a play with no audience will never get a second run."

BJ Response:
Well, this is another play of "Shock and Awe", designed to keep us eternally in a state of helpless frustration. Just another play to show us we have no power over the fate of our loved ones. NONE. Pretty scary to know that your life can be ended by judicial decree just because someone desires your death.

I can´t remember the name of the guy who became a paraplegic...paralyzed from the base of his cranium down to the soles of his feet. He was the poster boy for stem cell research. After his unfortunate accident, he was kept on life support. The doctors left no stone unturned to try to save him. He couldn´t feed himself, either, and had to wear a neck brace to even hold his head up, and a diaper. Why was he so special and Terri is being starved to death?

Poster on GLP
"This will now become case law, to use against those deemed undisireable by the state."

BJ Response:
Exactly! Death by judicial decree.

May the battle for Terri's life go on. I pray that someone will intervene for her to save her life. I want her to live because she wants to and her parents want her to. My personal opinion means nothing, but their fight is my fight.

It was posted on GLP that Terri was being given morphine. My other comment was: Gee whiz! Remove feeding tube, insert needle. How very damn callous!

BJ


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Posted: Mar 24 2005, 12:11 PM
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Looks like THEY are going to sacrifice her.

The Supreme Court Lizards have just spoken.


Hi Starlyte, sorry to hear about your cousin. I sure hope she recovers.
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Posted: Mar 25 2005, 05:20 AM
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pupp, thanks for the wishes for gwen. lets hope we can get her well enuf to get her out of the hospital and their system, who knows what may be mandated. but i see a time when it wont matter, you will be catagorized according to cost and cost effectiveness and outcome, and then no insurance or state will assist. not that far off probably. who knows then when you are a burden and not fully functional in physical or mental perhaps at age 90, then 80, then 70....and if not perfect at birth????? no matter what bush or the conservatives verbally say, they will go with the money, but they will want enuf of their drugs to be paid for to the pharm companies tho..........

OH THIS IS THE WEEK OF CRUCIFICTION TOO, isnt it?

Another Terri Schiavo Nurse Suspected Michael Abusing Terri Email this article
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by Steven Ertelt
LifeNews.com Editor
March 24, 2005

Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- A second nurse who took care of Terri Schiavo during the mid 1990s has made public comments that she suspects Terri's estranged husband Michael abused and neglected her.

Heidi Law told ABC Radio's Sean Hannity she wanted to come forward after hearing an interview the radio host did with Carla Sauer Iyer, a nurse who said she evidence that Michael had injected Terri with insulin to try to put her in physical shock.

"I witnessed an occasion extremely similar to that and wasn't aware that somebody else had," Law told Hannity.

I had gone into her room and she had quite the clammy fever -- or what felt like one -- and I went to the charge nurse immediately," Law explained.

Law said everything she saw led her to believe her sugar levels were "off the charts."

She told the ABC News radio show host that the episode happened just after Michael had left the room after visiting Terri privately.

Law also told Hannity that nurses at Woodside Hospice at the time viewed Michael as a problem but that they felt compelled to follow his orders on Terri's care.

"It was not a secret there that you were to do what you were told [by Michael], not ask questions and not push your luck when it came to Terri's husband," Law said, according to a NewsMax transcript of the interview.

Law said she had never met Iyer or spoken to her about the incidents.

Iyer was eventually fired by the home because of a disagreement with Michael where she claimed he injected her with insulin.

After one visit by Michael in Terri's room for 20 minutes with the door shut, Iyer found Terri lethargic and "crying hysterically."

She checked Terri's blood sugar levels and they were barely showing any reading on the glucometer, she told Fox News. She also saw a vial of "insulin concealed in the trash bin."

Iyer said there were needle marks underneath Terri's breast, under her arms, and in her groin area.

Iyer, who submitted affidavits during the legal battles between Michael and Terri's parents, said Michael would complain when staff would take care of her or feed her. He would also refused to provide her with any rehabilitative treatment.

"[T]hat's therapy -- take that washcloth out," he would tell Iyer.

Judge Greer rejected the affidavits saying the claims were hearsay and could not be proven.

Related news stories:
Neurologists: Terri Schiavo Not in Persistent Vegetative State

Terri Schiavo's Hospice Nurses Want Her to Die, Dissenter Fired

Media Slanting News Against Terri Schiavo, Report Says

Terri Schiavo Tried to Tell Parents' Attorney She Wanted to Live

Related web sites:
Terri Schiavo's parents - http://www.terrisfight.org

http://www.lifenews.com/bio838.html


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Posted: Mar 25 2005, 06:01 AM
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just ran into this, happy easter all, well that combo was always an oxymoron statement for me anyways ........


I Thirst
By Judith Moriarty
noahshouse@adelphia.net
3-24-5


Good Friday:

"After this Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the scripture), 'I thirst.' A bowl of vinegar stood there; so they put a sponge full of the vinegar on hyssop and held it to his mouth". John 19:28-29

A woman named Terri Schiavo, has become, in these past weeks the focus of partisan politics, judges in black robes playing at high priest, a philandering husband, claiming that he alone holds Terri's best interests at heart, and an anguishing family; watching at this modern day crucifixion, their child being starved to death before the whole world. And in the whole world, there is not one who, or so we are led to believe, that can rescue Terri from this slow agonizing death. Men, who in other times; command entire armies, fleets of ships, and the authority to proclaim war, are now seemingly impotent?

And what say the crowds in this macabre Florida Golgotha? If the polls are to be believed they shout, "Crucify her"! There are always the crowds. Titillated by the sensational, the bizarre, the obscene, the drama of life's events; they riot at sports events, scream at concerts, riot over verdicts, or act as judge and jury at life's tragedies-from a distance. Pilate meanwhile washes his hands of the whole sordid affair, and proclaims, "I am innocent of the blood of this just person" Matthew 27:24-25. Life is replete with its Pilates' who wash their hands of other's blood. The President rushed from his ranch and the politician's from their states to partake in this mimed theater of heroic compassion!

Compassion, strikingly absent, for the millions upon millions without health care, those dying unable to afford medicines, the multitudes of homeless, the millions unemployed due to their votes on outsourcing, pre-emptive war; causing untold anguish, death, maiming and poisoning (depleted uranium) of soldier and citizen alike. It's easy this compassion; which costs nothing, but concern for future votes. Easy this self-serving compassion, which votes itself lucrative raises, health care, and pensions, leaving millions to exist on minimum wage, shut out of closed hospitals and clinics.

Those convicted of the most heinous crimes known to mankind are afforded the most solicitous of care. They are granted clergy, a last meal, and death without anguish or pain. Terri, who has committed no crime, but that of being an inconvenience, an obstacle to someone else's wishes, remains silent through it all, unable to voice the simple words of "I thirst".

A culture of death, focused on another being a burden, an intrusion, too costly; will invent words like "death with dignity" and decide that the handicapped, the mentally impaired, chronically ill, and elderly would prefer death. In a corporate culture, absent a conscience or a soul, those who are not cost effective; are just statistics, acceptable risks, and a drain on profits. In a world of super stars, marathons, runway models, steroid enhanced athletes (for the games), plastic surgery, Viagra, the rich and the famous; the flawed the less than perfect, remind us all of our own mortality. Better that we spend billions upon untold billions on annihilating weaponry, ships, planes, armies, pet supplies, beauty products, designer wear and exotic vacation retreats.

Who are the truly handicapped in today's world? Is it the mute woman in a Hospice, the Alzheimer patient, the soldier minus sight and limbs, the autistic child, the mentally impaired, or those absent the capacity to love? I fear the world offers us pharmaceutical lust, not the divine capacity to love one another as we ought to. "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, and always perseveres. Love never fails." I Corinthians 13: 4-10

In a world of health clubs, joggers, rodeos, sports events, night clubs, car races, mountain climbing, tennis tournaments, ski resorts, hockey, soccer, and golf courses, etc, the world looks upon a Terri with pity and scorn. They decide from their own perspective of health that she is better off dead. They are conditioned to see only the limitations of another and not the gifts that they bring. In Terri's case her suffering comes from what man has put upon her. She has never been afforded the therapies, the attentions, which might bring her to her full potential. She suffers now because she "thirsts" and is starving to death!

In my travels of working with those in institutions and as the director of a homeless program; I can say without a doubt, that the greatest anguish and suffering that I witnessed; came about because of abuse, neglect, lack of medical care, lack of food, depraved indifference and alienation. Lonely people, without love, without touch---die. In a world of the superficial, the cosmetic, and self-aggrandizement, we have no time to stop, to enter in with another's need, another's suffering, another's loneliness. We're late, we're late for a very important date, no time to wait, we're late!

The lame, the halt, the blind, the suffering ones, the lonely, and the mentally impaired, are gifts to humanity. We are gifts one to another and we miss it. It is through the flawed, the less than perfect, those labeled and locked away that we become whole. They gift us with those things that will not be found in cathedrals, grand libraries, and trips to the Holy Land, seminars, gurus, or lofty schools of learning. >From my autistic brother, (who in Hitler's era would have been killed) I learned to listen in a world without sound. I learned to stop and just be still in the moment with him. And when he died in an institution, at the hands of those who were assigned to his care, I learned to forgive.

In the institution where my brother died (years later), I learned that it was not the patients who needed my solicitous care; but it was I who needed them. I learned that if all I had to offer was my physical attentions, I would fail. I learned that I was not the loving person that I had assumed I was. I learned that to truly have the compassion needed; that I needed divine love. And when I recognized this, it was given. Delbert with the mental age of four, taught me the joy of dancing in a splotch of sunlight; that shown through the gated, dusty windows. "Look Judy" he shouted, "the sun's dancing on my head".

Andrew taught me the importance of touch. He was a beautiful young boy, (autistic) who'd been paralyzed from shock therapy. Every morning before dressing the two dozen patients in my care, I would make a point of going to him, where he rocked incessantly, tousling his hair and kissing him. This went on for months, these small personal attentions. One morning, I was rushed and forgot. Andrew crawled across the floor, grabbed at my jeans, and pulled my hand down to his face. He knew I loved him.

I painted murals on the dingy walls, brought in music, learned that no matter the infirmity, creative love finds a way of reaching through. And then one day there was Danny. The institution was short on help and called me to work in the nursery. I was assigned to Danny, an eight year old child left by his mother in this place at birth. Danny weighed all of 35lbs. He was mute and twisted with cerebral palsy. It took over an hour just to feed him a simple bowl of porridge. I wondered what gift I could give this child who seemingly was unreachable.

When I took him back to the empty cavernous bathroom to clean him up, I held him in my arms, and it was then that I knew the gift that he needed. Danny had never known the hugs, songs, and comfort of a mother. As I sang to him, and told him how proud I was of him, that he was mommy's big boy, he started to coo and held tightly to my finger. Danny's gift to me, was realizing in that quiet moment, that we were all just like him only inside out. That, if for a moment in time; the hate, anger, jealousy, violence, greed, impatience, and prejudice; we all carried carefully hidden, was made manifest for only a moment, in a physical sense, how grotesque we all would appear one to another.

A few weeks later word came to me of Danny's death. Apparently staff was engrossed with the World Series, and was unaware that he had slipped through the rails of his bed, and hung there in the dark until he suffocated to death. I waited for the anger and rage of this neglect to surface and it didn't. Divine love, "is not easily angered, keeps no record of wrongs.". I could only feel remorse that they had missed the gift of Danny.like those in Florida have done. The crucifixion goes on and we see it not.





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