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Posted: Dec 1 2004, 12:33 PM
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Also another tidbit I found on it was mention of the weather that night on July 4, 1947. Apparently the crash was not due to heavy bouts of cheers.gif

Also tells of How Major Jesse Marcel got tricked into having to take that picture with the weather balloon.

http://www.iufomrc.org/incident.shtml




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Posted: Dec 1 2004, 08:11 PM
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The other day the History Channel had a marathon of Ancient UFOs, Then and Now UFos, Alien abductions and Area 51 information. They talked about the injured and deceased workers at Area 51 who were denied compensation and how TPTB tried to deny the whole situation. Also the shows were full of debunking skeptics which really tried so hard to diffuse the information and make it look like it's all B.S.

Yeah, Lazars name in an old company employee directory pretty much verified his story and blew away the lies of those trying to cover up the information he released.


Here's the info from your link on the previous page.


QUOTE
Toxic data at Area 51 ruled confidential
By Bob Egelko
January 08, 1998
ASSOCIATED PRESS

SAN FRANCISCO - An attempt to pry loose information about alleged toxic waste burning at a secret Air Force site in the Nevada desert - said to be the "Area 51" of extraterrestrial lore - hit a stone wall of secrecy in a federal appeals court Thursday.

Lawyers for five current and former workers at the base, and the widows of two workers allegedly killed by toxic wastes, are not entitled to learn whether hazardous substances exist there or how they are handled, the results of a federal toxics inspection or even the name of the base, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said.

The 3-0 ruling upheld the Air Force's claim that giving out that information could endanger national security and a 1995 order by President Clinton further restricting disclosure. Before arguments in the case last November, the judges reviewed confidential government statements, while Air Force security officers guarded their conference room.

Besides the classified statements, the court cited an unclassified filing by Air Force Secretary Sheila Widnall, who said information about certain chemicals in the soil or water "can reveal military operational capabilities or the nature and scope of classified operations."

The court, in an opinion by Judge Pamela Rymer, said the disclosure of even "seemingly innocuous information" can be barred if it is part of a "mosaic" of classified information.

"The court cannot order the government to disentangle this information from other classified information," Rymer said. She said the court was persuaded not only that the information was properly withheld, but also that "any further proceeding in this matter would jeopardize national security."

Jonathan Turley, a Georgetown law professor who represented the workers, said the ruling "sets an extremely dangerous precedent" for anyone seeking information from the military.

"This case has nothing to do with national security," he said. "I obviously know what happened at Area 51. My (clients) worked at Area 51. ...This case has to do with criminal violations" of hazardous waste laws.

He said he would seek a rehearing from the entire court and, if unsuccessful, appeal to the Supreme Court. But Turley said the two lawsuits have also accomplished an important goal: forcing the government to acknowledge the site and conduct a toxics inspection, although results of the inspection were not made public.

Justice Department spokesman Joe Krovisky declined comment, saying government lawyers had not seen the ruling.

Area 51, about 90 miles north of Las Vegas, is a base where military aircraft such as the U-2 and Stealth fighter were tested. Its secrecy and remoteness have been prime fodder for UFO buffs, who link the site to the supposed crash of an alien spacecraft at Roswell, N.M. - a scenario played out in the movie "Independence Day."

In the current case, the government identified the site in question as "the operating location near Groom Lake" and denied it was Area 51. The court left the denial unchallenged after reviewing classified material.

Turley scoffed at the denial, saying the name was verified in a government security manual as well as declarations from workers and security officials.

The lawsuits said employees at the base routinely put hazardous chemicals in open 55-gallon drums and burned them. The suits said the exposure killed two workers, Walter Kasza, 73, and Robert Frost, 57, whose widows Turley represents, and injured the other plaintiffs.

Turley said Frost, before his death, lost a workers' compensation claim for his injuries, and Kasza never filed one. The workers sought no damages but requested a court finding that the Air Force stored toxic wastes without a permit, and orders forbidding transportation and burning of toxics.

U.S. District Judge Philip Pro denied the requests but ruled that the results of an Environmental Protection Agency inspection of the site, conducted in response to one suit, would have to be made public unless Clinton intervened. The president then barred disclosure under a law that lets him exempt any federal facility from requirements of a federal toxic cleanup law.

The government appealed Pro's ruling, saying the report should have been declared secret under national security without the president's intervention, which must be renewed annually. The court declined to decide the issue, saying it was no longer a live controversy because of Clinton's action.

Rymer's opinion denying disclosure and ordering dismissal of the case was joined by Judge Harlington Wood of the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, temporarily assigned to the panel. In a separate opinion, Judge A. Wallace Tashima said secrecy was proper but should require a presidential order rather than a subordinate's declaration of national security.

The case is Kasza vs. Browner, 96-15535.




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"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
~ Matthew 7:16

"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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Posted: Dec 1 2004, 08:39 PM
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Parinthian,

Hello!

Welcome to PuPP's Forum!

Yes! You will find satisfaction here! Very interesting place this is. Many opinions all expressed with fervor! The same base paterns as you are, I'm sure, use to. But, done with a bit more thought and controll.

Being Mik! I am always happy to hear another voice. "Thoughts are only good when they make people think!" So expect the unusual from me! And all of the other posters here.

Sit,read, play and have a good time. PuPP's house is cool and, a refreshing break from the normal forum.

Oh and by the way remember it's "Always Mik's fault!!!!"

Mik {:O)
Your friend as we break through the vail.

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  Posted: Dec 1 2004, 08:55 PM
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Thank you Mik I definitely feel at home here. The posts I have read here so far are sooooo informative and I notice an excellent lack of mischief. I took a look at the old site I used to go to about an hour ago. I'm not bashing but I must say that just visiting it was like having the energy sucked right out of you. It was very negative to say the least. I used to be able to stomache what some av's and ac's post there but i think I have had my fill for quite a while.

This place gives me peace of mind while at the same time I rip it away reading in comfort. God it's gonna suck when I have to go back to work. At least then I'll be able to throw PuPP here some $$ for the awsome site. pyramideye2.gif




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Posted: Dec 1 2004, 08:56 PM
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QUOTE
Oh and by the way remember it's "Always Mik's fault!!!!"


ROTF
Simba.gif bustingupNEW3.gif

Is it dogpile on the Mik time?
chinscratch.gif

hehehe

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QUOTE
"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
~ Matthew 7:16

"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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Posted: Dec 2 2004, 06:49 PM
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Somebody at GLP linked Spearweasel's site in regard to John Titor's timeline being lifted from a GURPS role playing game. The timeling written in the midnineties did have a very prophetic edge to it and there were similarities to John Titor's but I suggest your read both and decide. After all L. Ron Hubbard's "Final Blackout" described the atomic bomb and the M16 rifle in uncanny detail before Hiroshima and Vietnam. I have found many science fiction writers to nail things long before their time. As for that memory foil, someone on the old Enterprise mission forum linked that material in an avant garde science magazine about two or three years ago. Back engineering? In my own research here in the Red River Valley found references to local sitings in 1842 and a fatality caused by one in 1875. UFO sitings certainly did not begin Roswell in 1947. I found the material in the "Shadowrun" novels based upon a RPG to be eerily unfolding now. Perhaps Jung's theory of a collective conscious hold the answer. UFO3new.gif UFO2New.gif atombomb.gif UFO4New.gif


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Posted: Dec 2 2004, 09:58 PM
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Howdy Tex!

I will check into gurps. I was more of a TSR fan myself. In reguards to Titor though I find that the info he gave in 2000 - 2001 in the span from November to March goes beyond what a gurps system could provide. He named when mini black holes would be discovered and it happened. He also gave the name of the Z-compression and now after 3.5 years later now one exists. I feel pretty confident in saying that so far I am a beleiver. I have yet to see him proved wrong. Do not by any means though think that I hope he is right. In fact I am praying that he is wrong. One thing that cannot be denied is that the NWO is gaining momentum. They seem to be setting up for the kill. They will not succeed. No matter how hard they try they will not break the human spirit. I do not like war nor would I want to be a part of it. However, if it is brought to my door I feel very sorry for anyone on the other side of it. I feel confident whether I live or die that true freedom will prevail, by that I do not mean the farce they referr to it as today.




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Posted: Dec 2 2004, 10:54 PM
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Tex I read the spearweasel site. I found the link from glp, thanks. I read it in it's entirety and I find that your analogy of L Ron Hubbard is correct. I see some similarities but I stand by my word. There should not be any reason for him to know what a 1975 ibm5100 would be able to, a specialist who built them said only 100 people on the planet had that knowledge. Mini black hole. z-machine. I am only going by what this guy talked about that has come true. He is still in my books 100% accurate. No gurps game, storyline, etc. can do that. I read it, and it just doesn't have those specifics. This guy can't be that lucky to hit all 3 on the head, even close to mark, the possibilties must be astronomical.




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Posted: Dec 4 2004, 08:05 PM
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In my own research here in the Red River Valley found references to local sitings in 1842 and a fatality caused by one in 1875. UFO sitings certainly did not begin Roswell in 1947.


I don't recall the fatality one of 1875. Any more details?

I'm sure you guys have heard about the so-called 'Battle of L.A.' in 1942.

Something like 1500 rounds were fired at a large object in the sky that was lit up by at least 8 searchlights. I originally found the report at Rense.com and now we have a thread here in the UFO section. I thought that it was pretty bizarre... what were they firing at?.... hmmm.

Here's a thread below with more info if interested.

http://www.puppstheories.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=684




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"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
~ Matthew 7:16

"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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  Posted: Dec 4 2004, 08:22 PM
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QUOTE
"Searchlights scanned the skies and anti-aircraft guns protecting the vital aircraft and ship-building factories went into action. In the next few hours they would fire over 1,400 shells at an unidentified, slow- moving object in the sky over Los Angeles that looked like a blimp, or a balloon."


I took a look at that first pic PuPP and I don't care what the paper says, that looks like a black triangle. I can see the outline clearly on the first one, The others seem to be a little too dark. I bet my life on it, it's a triangle. bouncefire.gif




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Posted: Dec 4 2004, 08:48 PM
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I took a look at that first pic PuPP and I don't care what the paper says, that looks like a black triangle. I can see the outline clearly on the first one, The others seem to be a little too dark. I bet my life on it, it's a triangle.


Ya know what's funny?

I've had that image in my archives for over a year and as I was posting the new pics, I looked closer at what the searchlights were aimed at and I thought the same thing.

A Large Triangle!

But when I first looked at that image and even when I first posted it back in May, I never noticed the Triangle.
Maybe it's cause of all the recent Triangle sightings lately?

I was going to post that I saw a triangle with 3 lights, but it was another one of those deleted texts of mine that never makes it to the board.

I think I wanted to wait and see if anyone else saw what I saw.

Excellant!

UFO2New.gif UFO3new.gif UFO4New.gif




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QUOTE
"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
~ Matthew 7:16

"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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Posted: Dec 4 2004, 09:33 PM
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My friend Eric and I saw one up close and personal when I was 19. Flew slowly, low emitting hum, due west straight from moriches bay canals where we first noticed th bright light, took about 6 minutes to reach us and it had like a flat black to it. Not shiny at all. One light at each corner but there was no central lit ring like I have seen on other photos. Damn thing was big too. Must have been about 150ft above us but maybe crawled at about I would guess 40 mph. I will never forget that night and the adrenaline, holy cow I thought my heart was going to leap out my chest. That was July 7th, 1991. Hell I even remember watching Vica-versa with Judge Reinhold and Fred Savage was on HBO started at 12:30 am and I guess it showed up maybe 20 minutes into the film. Approximately 12:50am.


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Posted: Dec 5 2004, 08:33 AM
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Welcome Parinthian, I think that you will find the mood here more pleasant, and the desire for serious research and truth more refreshing.

Concerning triangles, My wife and I saw one just a few years ago. We were sitting on the back patio a few hours after dark and we both intinctively looked straigt up into the sky then looked back at each other and continued the cnversation we were having. After a minute, I said, did you see that, and she said, yes what was that? It was strange; I'll bet we sat there for twenty minutes trying to recall exactly what we saw. It was very close, about the size of a large children's pool at arm's length. It made no sound, more accurately, I seemed to block all sound when it pass over (maybe that is why we looked up?). We agreed that it had three barely visible lights on the corners, but the body of the craft was extremely hard to distinguish. It almost seemed like one could see through it but not really. It was more like it was projecting a picture of the stars above it but couldn't quite keep them in focus... very strange indeed.


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Posted: Dec 5 2004, 01:27 PM
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Dang Parinthian and Monkey Shock, I'm like all jealous now.

I've never seen a Triangle in person. But I've seen a enough video footage to be a firm believer in advanced flying craft.

The only decent UFO I ever saw was a small Orange Orb. It was almost directly overhead my apt here, about the size of a colored pinhead head held at arms distance.


I think what you guys are seeing could be something the govt has been keeping from us. But maybe it's not military. I'm still not sure yet.

I believe many of the smaller 'Saucer' Craft were manmade. (See NAZI UFOs)

But where did the tech come from for those small planetary craft?

I believe the tech for the small craft has been here all along. (See Ancient UFO Art)

Perhaps the knowledge was downloaded into specific people or was it re-discovered in some archaeological dig, or has an advanced race(s) always been here, living underground to avoid the surface barbarians? Or was it because they were severely outnumbered and looked so different with their pale skin and bright blue eyes and living underground or on the Moon or Mars bases for thousands of years made their muscles weaker and bodies more frail? Or was it because they couldn't breathe the oxygen rich air of Earth and had to gradually change it over many thousands of years by desertification, deforestation and CO2 emissions from energy producing coal burning factories and the combustion engine? (And volcanos too)
(Just another of my theories)

Supposedly there's like several advanced races working here on Earth. The Earth is like a biological zoo. A resource or a supply station. But it looks like it's turning into a toxic waste dump.

When you see a UFO, do you ever just wanna say - TAKE ME WITH YOU!





--------------------
QUOTE
"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
~ Matthew 7:16

"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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  Posted: Dec 5 2004, 01:54 PM
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I think what you guys are seeing could be something the govt has been keeping from us. But maybe it's not military.


Well that 1942 photo shot had 1500 rounds fired at it and they did nothing to it. I have seen some pics of those nazi testing crafts but they were not bulletproof by any far means. I highly doubt that it was one of ours. However I do have some theories as to who these beings are and as to who and why they are here. I beleive that these beings we see in the craft are the remnants of the last civilization we had. They have subterranean cities and successfully travelled to the stars. If a human originally went into space and a 300 generations go by. We would see dramatic changes in physical form and abilities. If they had to be immobile for some time or perhaps confined would be more like it. Their extremeties would get smaller. Being in mostly darkness the whole time but not completely without light their eyes would get bigger. If sustenance is perfected to the point where your body would use every ounce of nutrition, eventually you would not be required to excrement. If you use artificial reproduction long enough then eventually the lower portions of the bodies would resemble ken and barbie dolls. Perfect desired temperature 68 degrees faranheit or maybe higher due to lack of clothing would eventually remove any requirements for hair. Starting to see the picture here?

QUOTE
When you see a UFO, do you ever just wanna say - TAKE ME WITH YOU!


Yes before I saw one I always had dreams of such. Being adopted I have always had random fantasies of who my parents were maybe being aliens or rich thanks to tv and hollywood, once you actually see an actual ship though the basic instinct of fear of the unknown can be overwhelming. I know ever since I saw one I can definitely say no.




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