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> 'Cloud Warriors' Burial Vault Found In Peru!, The Chachapoyas


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Posted: Oct 8 2006, 12:31 PM
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Mummies of 'cloud warriors' tribe found in Peruvian cave

By Daniel Howden

Archaeologists in Peru have discovered an underground burial vault that could unlock the mystery of a pre-Colombian tribe known as the "warriors of the clouds".

The Chachapoyas commanded a vast kingdom stretching across the Andes to the fringe of Peru's northern Amazon jungle until they were conquered by the Incas in the 15th century.

The Incan empire was itself overrun soon after by the Spanish, and details of the Chachapoyas and their way of life were lost or destroyed in the widespread pillaging that followed.

Now a team of archaeologists, working on a tip-off from a local farmer, have uncovered a burial site in a 820ft-deep cave. The researchers have so far found five mummies, two of which are intact with skin and hair, as well as ceramics, textiles and wall paintings, the expedition's leader, Herman Corbera, told Reuters.

"This is a discovery of transcendental importance. We have found these five mummies but there could be many more," Mr Corbera said. "We think this is the first time any kind of underground burial site this size has been found belonging to Chachapoyas or other cultures in the region."

The tribe's own name is unknown. The word Chachapoyas is thought to come from the Quechua for "cloud people", and is the name by which they were known to the Incas, because of the cloud forests they inhabited in what is now northern Peru. A white-skinned people who were famed as ferocious fighters, the Chachapoyas held out against the Incans, who ruled an empire stretching from southern Chile to northern Ecuador until their conquest by the Spanish.

Today, the Cloud People are best known for their stone citadel, Kuelap, with more than 400 buildings and massive exterior stone walls, which is often referred to as the Machu Picchu of the north.

Mr Corbera said the walls in the limestone cave near the mummies were covered with paintings of faces and warrior-like figures which may have been drawn to ward off intruders and evil spirits.

"The remote site for this cemetery tells us that the Chachapoyas had enormous respect for their ancestors because they hid them away for protection," Mr Corbera said. "Locals call the cave Iyacyecuj, or Enchanted Water in Quechua, because of its spiritual importance and its underground rivers.

"The idea now is to turn this cave into a museum, but we've got a huge amount of research to do first and protecting the site is a big issue."

http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/lead-story713.htm


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Posted: Oct 8 2006, 09:08 PM
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Typically, they don't credit the real discoverer of Gran Patajen, Gene Savoy, in this or any related articles. Savoy describes his discoveries of the lost Chachapoyas cities of the Peruvian cloud forests in his book, "Antisuyo". Mainstream archaeologists followed his trail and he always reported his discoveries to the Peruvian government. He has been credited in several Time-Life books and other publications such as National Geographic. His most recent discovery was around 1998 of a Chachapoya city on the Urumacinta River. This article sounds like someone followed up on his expedition. They also don't mention the Phoenician symbols Savoy and his expedition exhibited in Lima from a Chachapoya ruin. I'm no longer surprised.


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Posted: Jan 24 2007, 10:08 AM
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Massive, Ancient Building Discovered In The Andes

Stunning find in remote area stumps archaeologists

By Thomas H. Maugh Ii, Los Times


Published on 1/23/2007 in Nation, World » National News


On the heavily forested eastern slope of the Andes, Peruvian farmers have discovered a massive ruin whose unusual size and shape promise to shed new light on the relationship between the Chachapoya and the Inca warriors who destroyed their civilization.

The rectangular, block-like structure — nicknamed Huaca La Penitenciaria or Penitentiary Ruins — is reminiscent of Inca architectural style, but a large frieze across its front is the signature of the Chachapoya— the so-called Cloud People of ancient Peru.

The unusual conjunction of traits, as well as its location at a lower elevation and much further east than the Chachapoya empire was previously known to sprawl, hint that it might have been built by forced Chachapoya labor under the direction of Inca rulers, said Keith Muscutt, a Chachapoya expert who described the find last week at a meeting in San Francisco of the Institute for Andean Studies.

“We are dealing with a startlingly large, functionally specialized structure that we do not understand at all,” said archaeologist Warren Church of Columbus State University in Georgia, who was not involved in the find. “It is enormous, and to find it where we find it is really strange.”

For at least 600 years, until the late 15th century, the Chachapoya amassed an extensive empire in the high Andes, building large cities, controlling complex trading routes and practicing a little-understood form of shamanism.

Nobody knows where the Chachapoya came from, but starting about 1,300 years ago, they began to spread through an area known as the “Ceja de Selva,” or Eyebrow of the Jungle, reaching a population of about 500,000. They are renowned for their mountaintop citadels, such as Kuelap and Gran Pajaten.

Their downfall began around 1470, when the Inca began a war of conquest against them, resulting in their subjugation. Soon after, the Spanish came and conquered the Inca. Ultimately, infectious diseases brought by the Europeans killed as many as 98 percent of the Cloud People.

The Penitentiary Ruins were discovered and named by three local farmers: Octavio, Merlin and Edison Anazco. They conveyed the news to Muscutt, an assistant dean at the University of California, Santa Cruz, who was in the area on a project for the Discovery Channel.

The site was accessible only by mule trail, “a big gruesome trail, very steep,” Muscutt said. “The animals were often up to their bellies in mud.”

The ruins sit on a plateau called La Meseta between the Rio Verde and Rio Huabayacu. It is about two days by foot to the nearest village, La Morada.

The ruins are heavily overgrown by the cloud forest, complete with spider monkeys, jaguars and other nocturnal predators. Muscutt estimated that 98 percent of the ruin is heavily overgrown with trees, vines and moss. “You can't stand back and photograph it or fly over it” and take a picture, he said.

Muscutt performed no clearing or excavation at the site, but he was able to obtain rough measurements of the ruins. The site is dominated by a large ceremonial platform about 200 feet wide, 100 feet deep and 24 feet high. It is made of dry stone or “pirca” — essentially cut stone piled in courses with no binding to hold it together.

Because there have been many large earthquakes in the area, Muscutt said, “it must have some kind of internal structure to keep it from collapsing. He could find no openings other than drains, however.

In front of the platform is a large plaza, approximately 200 feet wide and 300 feet long. The top of the platform bears the remains of several square and round buildings and what appears to be a watchtower. The plaza also has the remains of some buildings that appear to have been later additions.

“One of the things that I find extraordinary about this building is that it is clearly a civil, ceremonial building,” Muscutt said. Despite its blocky appearance, “It is not a fortress. It doesn't have parapets, doesn't have a moat, doesn't have a perimeter wall. There is no evidence of warfare at all.”

Also notable is the apparent lack of nearby dwellings where builders or occupants would have lived.

“It strikes me that the Inca were the only people powerful enough and with the wherewithal to insert people into this place to erect this thing in short order, then pull them out again,” Church said.

http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/articles/...c8-cb20d76b847c



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Posted: Jan 24 2007, 05:28 PM
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Hey Tex, if I'm not mistaken, weren't the Incan rulers part of the 'large cranium' group of people, whom the natives revered and worshipped as gods for many centuries and even tried to emulate their long skulls through head binding wraps on their infants.

conehead.gif




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~ Matthew 7:16

"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
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Posted: Jan 25 2007, 04:42 AM
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Some of the Incas were dolichocephalic but so were other South American Indians.

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Posted: Jan 25 2007, 04:27 PM
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Thanks Tex,

dolichocephalic ...yeah that's the word!

Was Fred Gywnne (Herman Munster) a dolichocephalic?

and John Kerry ...he sure has a big head too!





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"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
~ Matthew 7:16

"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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Posted: Jan 25 2007, 07:11 PM
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Dolichocephalic refers to skulls that are comparatively long and narrow; many are quite small.
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Posted: Jan 25 2007, 09:52 PM
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Ahhh, thanks for the reply Tex,

Here's a lil humor for ya!

user posted image





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"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
~ Matthew 7:16

"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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Posted: Feb 8 2007, 06:07 PM
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QUOTE (Mark J. Harper @ Jan 24 2007, 05:28 PM)
Hey Tex, if I'm not mistaken, weren't the Incan rulers part of the 'large cranium' group of people, whom the natives revered and worshipped as gods for many centuries and even tried to emulate their long skulls through head binding wraps on their infants.

conehead.gif

Veracocha conehead.gif


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Posted: Dec 7 2008, 04:51 PM
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Ancient city discovered deep in Amazonian rainforest linked to the legendary white-skinned Cloud People of Peru

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 1:44 AM on 04th December 2008


A lost city discovered deep in the Amazon rainforest could unlock the secrets of a legendary tribe.


Little is known about the Cloud People of Peru, an ancient, white-skinned civilisation wiped out by disease and war in the 16th century.


But now archaeologists have uncovered a fortified citadel in a remote mountainous area of Peru known for its isolated natural beauty.


An ancient Chachapoyas village located close to the area where the lost city was found


It is thought this settlement may finally help historians unlock the secrets of the 'white warriors of the clouds'.


The tribe had white skin and blonde hair - features which intrigue historians, as there is no known European ancestry in the region, where most inhabitants are darker skinned.


The citadel is tucked away in one of the most far-flung areas of the Amazon. It sits at the edge of a chasm which the tribe may have used as a lookout to spy on enemies.


The area where the lost city was discovered by a team of archaeologists
The Chachapoyas, also called the Warriors of the Clouds, were an Andean people living in the cloud forests of the Amazonian region of present-day Peru
The main encampment is made up of circular stone houses overgrown by jungle over 12 acres, according to archaeologist Benedict Goicochea Perez.

Rock paintings cover some of the fortifications and next to the dwellings are platforms believed to have been used to grind seeds and plants for food and medicine.


The Cloud People once commanded a vast kingdom stretching across the Andes to the fringes of Peru's northern Amazon jungle, before it was conquered by the Incas.


The city was found in Amazonian rainforest in northern Peru

A mummy of a baby from the Chachapoyas culture
Named because they lived in rainforests filled with cloud-like mist, the tribe later sided with the Spanish-colonialists to defeat the Incas.

But they were killed by epidemics of European diseases, such as measles and smallpox.


Much of their way of life, dating back to the ninth century, was also destroyed by pillaging, leaving little for archaeologists to examine.


Remains have been found before but scientists have high hopes of the latest find, made by an expedition to the Jamalca district in Peru's Utcubamba province, about 500 miles north-east of the capital, Lima.

Until recently, much of what was known about the lost civilisation was from Inca legends.


Even the name they called themselves is unknown. The term Chachapoyas, or 'Cloud People', was given to them by the Incas.


Their culture is best known for the Kuellap fortress on the top of a mountain in Utcubamba, which can only be compared in scale to the Incas' Machu Picchu retreat, built hundreds of years later.


Two years ago, archaeologists found an underground burial vault inside a cave with five mummies, two intact with skin and hair.


Chachapoyas chronicler Pedro Cieza de Leon wrote of the tribe: 'They are the whitest and most handsome of all the people that I have seen, and their wives were so beautiful that because of their gentleness, many of them deserved to be the Incas' wives and to also be taken to the Sun Temple.


'The women and their husbands always dressed in woollen clothes and in their heads they wear their llautos [a woollen turban], which are a sign they wear to be known everywhere.'


Enlarge Secret civilisation: a map of the region where the settlement was found

The Chachapoyas' territory was located in the northern regions of the Andes in present-day Peru.


It encompassed the triangular region formed by the confluence of the Maranon and Utcubamba rivers, in the zone of Bagua, up to the basin of the Abiseo river.


The Maranon's size and the mountainous terrain meant the region was relatively isolated.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/...ople-Peru.html#


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Posted: Jan 2 2009, 08:16 PM
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"White indians"

Well ok, but you have to look back into the accounts made by european settlers of eastern north america in the early days, by early I mean Jamestown and later.

It is accepted fact now that the reason Columbus sailed on such a southern course is because he was sailing for Spain. At the time, Spain and England weren't getting along too well and it was well known that the english, irish, and scottish fishing ships were prowling the north atlantic, along with the icelanders and scandanavians. It wasn't uncommon for the occasional few english warships to be found there, protecting what were considered british waters. That's a bad scene if you're flying a spanish flag.


They at times would fish in the Grand Banks, and sometimes even right off the coast of new england and newfoundland! No one thought much of it back then. These waters were known to be good fishing spots, and this knowledge was handed down by the Vikings.


Anyway...


Early settlers wrote tales of indians with red or even blonde hair, some spoke a dialect of cymric (welsh). They were not a rare sight back then. How did they identify an indian in those days? By the way they dressed. It often happened that a white frontiersman would be shot by 'friendly fire' because he was dressed a little too native, despite having a lighter complexion and blonde hair...

We all know the viking tales of Leif Ericson. Some of you may know of the story of Prince Madoc, a welsh prince who sailed to the new world and vanished. It is said the Mandans are partially descended from his people.

There have been DNA tests indicating that some of the native peoples of the eastern USA have genes passed down by stone-age Solutrean Europeans, who may have actually arrived in the americas before the siberians. The jury is still out on that one, but stone age europeans were here!

Later on in history, those 'indians' who could pass themselves off as 'white' did so to survive. The more darkish ones were easily identified as such weren't so lucky. Those were the ones who faced genocide and removal to reservations. This is one of the reasons many people today claim to be part 'indian' with no way to prove it. Of course they can't prove it. That was the point. If you were a jew or gypsy who could pass yourself as a german during the Third Reich, it would be wise to do so. It would beat the alternative...


I highly recommend reading The Trail of Tears by Gloria Jahoda and In Plain Sight by Gloria Farley for more info on this subject.


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