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> New Gallery at Anarchaeology.com, Photos of more "Phoenician" symbols


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Posted: Jan 22 2005, 11:41 PM
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Well Tex
I have been thinking a lot about the
"stacked stones"
I see no reasion why SOME of these cannot be old walls etc
but they have no real basis in very advanced civilized activity more than Indian settlements.
You mention Phoenecian fortress.
So I am to assume phoenecian settlement.
Did the phoenecians not have bronze ?
Certainly if they came to America, and founded stone forts , they had bronze implements with them.
Thus a metal detector at these sites would be prudent.

The stone tablet supposedly found by the Okie farmer,
translated by the "amateur epigrapher"
to be "iberian-punic" text or characters
does not inspire me.

First of all, it could be real,
just not really found in OK.
the proof of that is hearsay.
What other old potential sites are in the Westfall area of Kansas...?

Punic -Iberian text is ...Carthaginian?

Here in Bham we have a legend as well.
There is a local historian that is convinced that Cortez had his hideout outpost here off Post Point, or along Chuckanut -}Bellingham]
One of the evidences is a supposed 17th century Spanish goblet found in Samish Creek.
Another is the carved European looking mermaid in the rocks at the shore,
supposedly carve d by Spanish sailors,
or by seashore hippies in the 70s here.
No one knows,
I have not been to see the mermaid yet.

Maybe I should and get a shot for this forum.
The guy here has collected lots of evidences with old maps as proof etc.
The old Spanish maps of this arae are fascinating actually.
Cortez probably did come up the Pacific Coast , and establish small outposts.

So I suppose the Topeka tablet is as possible as Cortez golden stash in bellingham Bay.

I would tend to say that the Topeka tablet,
is real but hoaxed to have been found here in Kansas.

Why would someone fake punic-Iberian caligraphy in stone in 1900...?
Are we in Kansas Dorothy ?.
A Death Chant ?
very odd.

Also I did not see the pavement in the first link.
There is no special surprise that the stones are carved by Indians at the time.
Why not ?
Some of the stones are mere scraped surfaces from work,
others are obvious artforms.
At least these LOOK old, unlike most of the ica stones.
It is like that idiot scholar at the Bishop museum tellling me that South pacific Islanders did not ever use seashells to decorate their carvings ....




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Freedom Fighter
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Posted: Jan 22 2005, 11:47 PM
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Here you go Tex
I am in seattle, and cannot download,it is a pdf,
but this should give some info on Westfall, and the stone tablet


Kansas University
Explorations in Archaeology
Friday, September 24, 2004
3:30pm in the Anthropology Museum
”Exploring Westfall, KU’s 2004 Archaeological Fieldschool”


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Posted: Jan 23 2005, 08:33 AM
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Vianova, read the Introduction at www.anarchaeology.com for an explanation of why the term "Phoenician" was used and why I no longer believe the site has anything to do with Phoenicians. Most anomalous finds are based on heresay evidence; I'm not trying to sell you something here. Accept or reject; your choice.


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Posted: Jan 23 2005, 11:19 PM
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Hey Tex,
don't mind me, I write late at night usually, and tired.
I am actually rejecting very little.

The Westfall tablet is amusingly refreshing, in that it
has a good chance to be real,
just questionable to be found there in the Kansas wheatfields.
I would love to read the pdf, I will search for it next.

I suppose the real problem here with the limited archaeological finds , is that private property makes it so tough to explore.

Actually after studying many of your pictures at Anarchaeology .com
I have a better appreciation for relict sites in the US.

Everyone wants the spectacular in results.
The Westfall tablet would be in that category if truly found in Dorothy's Ozpot.



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Posted: Jan 24 2005, 06:49 AM
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The next time you are browsing anarchaeology.com take a look at the owlhead effigy and the "malakoff" type stone head in the Caney Creek 2 section. An arrowhead hunter found it eroding from a creek bank in Grayson County and brought it in to me to photograph for identification. So far it has stumped the local archaeologist and scores of artifact collectors. My guess is that it's Caddoan Moundbuilder/Mississippian though there is evidence of an Adena contemporary in this area even earlier.


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Posted: Jan 24 2005, 11:37 PM
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I do not know what i am looking at in the Malakoff head so I will refrain from comment

The Owl head is fabulous.
My guess is that it was washed up to the eroding shoreline , or was deposited later adjacent to the "Cretaceous shale" or whatever it was called, then later eroded away.

This is no common artifact , and most likely has very high energy of indian Shamansitic qualities,
all assuming the impeccable nature of the "finder" and the location of the find.

Digging along the embankment may be a good idea.
Upstream is the source, most likely.
Look for mounds/etc upstream.
There may be a burial ground VERY close by.
being eroded by river.

This owl head is by far the most plausible and undeniable artifact of importance, far outweighing any stacked walls and spurious Topeka tablets.

If it were just a whimsical carving I would be surprised.
the owl is ART.with meaning beyond badly incised stones depicted spider webs...

are there other
"Caddoan Moundbuilder/Mississippian though there is evidence of an Adena contemporary in this area even earlier."
stone artifacts?

This item seems extremely unusual.





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Posted: Jan 25 2005, 05:26 AM
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I have a specimen of what is the Texas equivalent of an Adena point which I found burrying unburnable trash. Digging deeper I found the archaic predessor to it. I have seen a couple, an exquisite polished blackstone medicine bowl(actually the mortar of a paint,herbal mortar and pestle set) and a "boatstone" which is probably an earspool. These were found by the daughter of the man who showed me many of the anomalous sites. The daughter found a jawbone at the same location and SMU dated it to between 2,400 and 3,000 years old. However, the staff treated her so rudely, accusing her of being a bumbling amateur, that she refused to tell them the location and reburied it where she found it. She also refrained from donating the boatstone to a local museum and kept it for herself. I know the general vicinity of the mound and a couple of others but they are on private property of very cantankerous individuals.


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Posted: Jan 25 2005, 10:32 PM
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I know the general vicinity of the mound and a couple of others but they are on private property of very cantankerous individuals."

This is near where the "owl" head carving was found?

Offer the "cantankerous individuals" money to dig for 2 weeks, and
if need be ,a share of the booty, as bait.

keep the good finds private and feed the owners pottery shards and arrowheads..



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Posted: Jan 26 2005, 06:47 AM
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One of the mounds is on the property of a feed mill owner and its not a matter of money, of which he has a good deal more than I, but of territoriality. The second is owned by a mentally unstable alcohol devotee. Negotiations to dig the mound broke down when he falsly accused the negotiator of stealing some of his worthless snuff bottles. He later apologised and renewed the offer but my friend wants nothing to do with the project now. Following the stream of the owl effigy upstream should prove more fruitful as many archaic points have been found in it. One of them, a classic cornertang supposedly should not be there, but I have found a number of points that are not supposed to be here. A friend found a black chert tool which he thought was a broken Folsom. When he showed it to some visiting archaeologists from Texas A&M they were shocked. It was a sickleblade for Clovis era harvesters of bluestem grass. They could not believe it had been found on the North Sulphur River as the only others known were from Gault in Bell County in Central Texas.


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Posted: Jan 26 2005, 09:04 AM
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"The second is owned by a mentally unstable alcohol devotee. Negotiations to dig the mound broke down when he falsly accused the negotiator of stealing some of his worthless snuff bottles. He later apologised and renewed the offer but my friend wants nothing to do with the project now."

Your friend then should inspect the holes in his feet....
Bring the alcoholic guy a bottle of his favorite wine,
have a drink with him , and when he passes out , start digging
cheers.gif


"Following the stream of the owl effigy upstream should prove more fruitful as many archaic points have been found in it. "

I would dig further at the exact spot of the owl find ASAP.
Then go upstream.
The owl head is an indication of something major.
Sure a chief or shaman could have been killed and the body just worked its way thru nature to end up as pieces in the sand,
but my guess is that there is a burial ground nearby ,if not right there,
and a good one.

"When he showed it to some visiting archaeologists from Texas A&M they were shocked..."

Texas A&M archaeologists

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Master Of His Domain
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Posted: Jan 26 2005, 11:38 AM
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QUOTE
keep the good finds private and feed the owners pottery shards and arrowheads..


Isn't that like stealing?

Ahem - cough cough




--------------------
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"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
~ Matthew 7:16

"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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Posted: Jan 26 2005, 02:04 PM
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It goes a bit beyond stealing from the present tenant; I have always avoided robbing graves whether they are six years old or six thousand. Call me superstitious but most of the artifact hunters I know feel the same way. Picking up debris from Nature's forces is one thing but intentionally tomb robbing is quite a different matter.


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Posted: Jan 26 2005, 03:33 PM
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Tex, I sort of figured that about you. You seem to be a man of integrity and in search of the truth, wherever it may lead you.

I am glad that you and Vianova lend your expertise here in regards to ancient artifacts.

I truly appreciate that!
face.gif




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QUOTE
"Ye shall know them by their fruits"
~ Matthew 7:16

"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~ Buddha
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Posted: Jan 28 2005, 12:09 AM
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I have always avoided robbing graves whether they are six years old or six thousand. Call me superstitious but most of the artifact hunters I know feel the same way. Picking up debris from Nature's forces is one thing but intentionally tomb robbing is quite a different matter."

Nature is no excuse.
Let me get this straight.
You stumble upon a secret cave entrance to a tomb that predates paleoIndians and it is full of hitech relics and ancient astronomers dusting away,
or
you find a pyramid in the desert with easy entrance to a tomb of giants
and you just walk away ?
seal it up ?
let the texas A&M archaeologits

pennywise2.jpg pennywise2.jpg pennywise2.jpg pennywise2.jpg pennywise2.jpg

haull it away...that is let to THEM rob it,...?

Or let the Smithsonian hide la evidencia from future generations,
or the US govt put it on off limits land for some institution to rape.."?


Sure, a simple find of Indian artifacts in a burial site
with local Native peoples nearby , you give it to them.

but if it predates current generational contact and connection, then it is fair game.
There shoul d at least be a finders fee.
sheesh.

sorry ,
it would be a judgemnet call

Do you leave Greek and roman treasures buried once exposed?
do you leave a jewel encrusted crown on a skull , when nature has eroded away the tomb and eartquakes have spilled the contents out onto the surface ...just nearby or even half buried in the tomb remnants..?

Almost everything was put in graves or tombs.

Inspection of site is actually prudent by the finder to insure that high level institutions
do not appropriate the sites and rob them of valuable info, ...

should Kennewick man have ben left in the ground?

But then there were those german University students that all got fungal diseases opening a certain tomb in Syria I think it was.
some even died.

Opening a tomb one day may reveal the Ark.

Humanity is a tombstone of art history.

One must bless the site, and work with the dead spirits.
one usually knows when it is appropriate to
"appropriate" the goods....Ha !

If you dig into that riverbank where the owl was, and a few more shamanistic relics
present themselves...how do you assume that it is depositional or burial?

Tough call..
Respecting the dead is always prudent, but sometimes the dead energies want release as well.









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Posted: Jan 28 2005, 07:14 AM
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Elaine Dewar noted in "Bones" that an unfortunate concatanation of calamities attended those who disturbed the bones of the ancient dead. I have personally witnessed the veracity of that observation. Yes, I've often felt that the artifacts that I have rescued from the earth wanted to be found and that the spirits of the unhappy dead sometimes guided my discoveries. Several times I have returned to my dig site to find an artifact lying right atop the disturbed earth like a gift. For almost a year and a half I have known the location of several Moundbuilder graves yet I have never disturbed them despite the landowner's repeated invitations to do so. This is a personal choice I make in my conduct and I do not foist it upon others. In regard to Texas A&M, Smithsonian and others, who practice a one way flow of information, I've long since learned to avoid giving them anything of vital significance. The one way flow also operates in the opposite direction. The lust for information can erode one's personal ethics as surely as the lust for material wealth.


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