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> GRAND CANYON - Ancient Artifacts, Egyptian ruins in the Grand Canyon?


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Posted: Oct 21 2004, 12:30 AM
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GRAND CANYON

Evidence of an Ancient Civilization - hidden from the mainstream public eye.

These are the first images I have ever seen of these artifacts. Perhaps someone can provide some more information on this subject.


Cave Drawings
user posted image

Statues or Mummies?
user posted image

More Statues or Mummies?
user posted image

Special Thanks to Thessa for directing me to the Brazilian link for the images.
http://www.dominiosfantasticos.hpg.ig.com.br/id217.htm




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Posted: Oct 21 2004, 12:32 AM
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user posted image




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Posted: Oct 21 2004, 03:50 AM
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They hide so damn much.


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Posted: Oct 21 2004, 03:58 AM
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The last two pictures look more like illustrations than photographs, so it would be interesting to know if this is the case, how accurate they are.

I say this because in the middle pic (the close up of the two 'mummies'), they appear to have swords behind them leaning against the wall.

I know my weapons dang it, and if the images are accurate, those look like definate nordic/germanic swords.

In fact the sword behind the mummy on the right looks like an Oakeshott Behmer Type III migration-era sword, which was found in Kragehul Bog in Denmark and dates to about 450 AD.

The Vendels and other northern germanic/nordic peoples of the time had similar swords.

The sword behind the mummy on the left looks like it may be a Behmer Type IV, or perhaps a Viking Type R. Hard to be sure without a good detailed image.

But regardless...if the illustrations are correct and accurate, you're looking at some Viking or Germanic type people. Without a doubt.


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  Posted: Oct 21 2004, 04:20 AM
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On that website it says that those pics are from a complex net of edifications and tunnels excavated inside the mountain(s ?) at the Grand Canyon at a place called "El Tovar Canyon".

That structure was found at 1908 by G. And Kinkaid and afterwards studied by the Smithsonian Institute that came to the conclusion that its origins are “oriental” and probably Egyptians. These findings are kept in the most absolute secrecy in a " governmental area" with a highly watched and rigorously forbidden access.

One can only imagine what kind of insights that ancient civilization using technology and metals “not from Earth” could probably give about the origins of our ancestors and about our own history.

Why the secrecy? pissed.gif

smileNew4.gif

Thessa

Ps: the website is in Portuguese for anyone who wants to use a translator.


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  Posted: Oct 21 2004, 04:23 AM
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that was me, myself, moi...... arggggg bang.gif


smileNew4.gif

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Posted: Oct 21 2004, 05:14 AM
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This MAY be two different sites. The photos above do not appear to be the same as the article below.

See the SHRINE.

Below is a drawing from the original 1908 expedition. The mummies seem to be displayed differently.

user posted image

Though this discovery says "oriental" orgins, I value your expertise in regards to the weapons.

Below is the 1909 article which has been REMOVED from the archives and the Smithsonian has covered this up. The area has been bought out by the US govt and it's forbidden for us to go there.

There is also speculation that an ancient craft was discovered. If that is true, no wonder it's been covered up. We're not supposed to know about the real history.

I believe the Aryans (NAZIS/ISRAELIS) who currently rule over us seek to suppress knowledge.

_____________________________

user posted image

user posted image

Below is the text from the newspaper article:

QUOTE
Egyptian Artifacts in the Grand Canyon
The Phoenix Gazette - April 5, 1909

Remarkable Finds Indicate Ancient People Migrated From Orient:

The latest news of the progress of the explorations or what is now regarded by scientists as not only the oldest archaeological discovery in the United States, but one of the most valuable in the world, which was mentioned some time ago in the Gazette (see photo at left), was brought to the city yesterday by G.E. Kinkaid, the explorer who found the great underground citadel of the Grand Canyon during a trip from Green River, Wyoming, down the Colorado, in a wooden boat, to Yuma, several months ago.

According to the story related to the Gazette by Mr. Kinkaid, the archaeologists of the Smithsonian Institute, which is financing the expeditions, have made discoveries which almost conclusively prove that the race which inhabited this mysterious cavern, hewn in solid rock by human hands, was of oriental origin, possibly from Egypt, tracing back to Ramses. If their theories are borne out by the

translation of the tablets engraved with hieroglyphics, the mystery of the prehistoric peoples of North America, their ancient arts, who they were and whence they came will be solved.

Egypt and the Nile, and Arizona and the Colorado will be linked by a historical chain running back to ages, which staggers the wildest fancy of the fictionist. Under the direction of Professor S.A. Jordan, the Smithsonian Institute is now prosecuting the most thorough explorations, which will be continued until the last link in the chain is forged.

Nearly a mile underground, about 1480 feet below the surface, the long main passage has been delved into, to find another mammoth chamber from which radiates scores of passageways, like the spokes of a wheel. Several hundred rooms have been discovered, reached by passageways running from the main passage, one of them having been explored are 854 feet and another 634 feet. The recent finds include articles, which have never been known as native to this country and doubtless they had their origin in the orient.

War weapons, copper instruments, sharp - edged and hard as steel, indicate the high state of civilization reached by these strange people. So interested have the scientists become that preparations are being made to equip the camp for extensive studies, and the force will be increased to thirty or forty persons.

"Before going further into the cavern, better facilities for lighting will have to be installed, for the darkness is dense and quite impenetrable for the average flashlight. In order to avoid being lost, wires are being strung from the entrance to all passageways leading directly to large chambers. How far this cavern extends no one can guess, but it is now the belief of many that what has already been explored is merely the "barracks", to use an American term, for the soldiers, and that far into the underworld will be found the main communal dwellings of the families. The perfect ventilation of the cavern, the steady draught that blows through, indicates that it has another outlet to the surface."

Mr. Kinkaid was the first white child born in Idaho and has been an explorer and hunter all his life, thirty years having been in the service of the Smithsonian Institute. Even briefly recounted, his history sounds fabulous, almost grotesque:

"First, I would impress that the cavern is nearly inaccessible. The entrance is 1,486 feet down the sheer canyon wall. It is located on government land and no visitor will be allowed there under penalty of trespass."

The scientist's wish to work unmolested, without fear of the archaeological discoveries being disturbed by curio or relic hunters. A trip there would be fruitless, and the visitor would be sent on his way.

"The story of how I found the cavern has been related, but in a paragraph: I was journeying down the Colorado River in a boat, alone, looking for minerals. Some forty two miles up the river from the El Tovar Crystal canyon, I saw on the east wall, stains in the sedimentary formation about 2,000 feet above the river bed. There was no trail to this point, but I finally reached it with great difficulty. Above a shelf, which hid it from view from the river, was the mouth of the cave."

"There are steps leading from this entrance some thirty yards to what was, at the time the cavern was inhabited, the level of the river. When I saw the chisel marks on the wall inside the entrance, I became interested, securing my gun and went in."

"During that trip, I went back several hundred feet along the main passage till I came to the crypt in which I discovered the mummies. One of these I stood up and photographed by flashlight. I gathered a number of relics, which I carried down the Colorado to Yuma, from whence I shipped them to Washington with details of the discovery. Following this, the explorations were undertaken."

"The main passageway is about 12 feet wide, narrowing to nine feet toward the farther end. About 57 feet from the entrance, the first side-passages branch off to the right and left, along which, on both sides, are a number of rooms about the size of ordinary living rooms of today, though some are 30 by 40 feet square. These are entered by oval-shaped doors and are ventilated by round air spaces through the walls into the passages. The walls are about three feet six inches in thickness. The passages are chiseled or hewn as straight as could be laid out by an engineer. The ceilings of many of the rooms converge to a center."

"The side-passages near the entrance run at a sharp angle from the main hall, but toward the rear, they gradually reach a right angle in direction."

THE SHRINE

user posted image

"Over a hundred feet from the entrance is the cross-hall, several hundred feet long in which is found the idol, or image, of the people's god, sitting cross-legged, with lotus flower or lily in each hand. The cast of the face is oriental, the carving shows a skillful hand, and the entire object is remarkably well preserved, as is everything in this cavern."

"The idol almost resembles Buddha, though the scientists are not certain as to what religious worship it represents. Taking into consideration everything found thus far, it is possible that this worship most resembles the ancient people of Tibet."

"Surrounding this idol are smaller images, some very beautiful in form; others crooked-necked and distorted shapes, symbolical probably, of good and evil. There are two large cactus with protruding arms, one on each side of the dais on which the God squats. All this is carved out of hard rock resembling marble. In the opposite corner of this cross-hall were found tools of all descriptions, made of copper."

"These people undoubtedly knew the lost art of hardening this metal, which has been sought by chemists for centuries without result. On a bench running around the workroom was some charcoal and other material probably used in the process. There is also slag and stuff similar to matte, showing that these ancients smelted ores, but so far, no trace of where or how this was done has been discovered, nor the origin of the ore."

"Among the other finds are vases or urns and cups of copper and gold, made very artistic in design. The pottery work includes enameled ware and glazed vessels. Another passageway leads to granaries such as are found in the oriental temples. They contain seeds of various kinds. One very large storehouse has not yet been entered, as it is twelve feet high and can be reached only from above. Two copper hooks extend on the edge, which indicates that some sort of ladder was attached. These grannies are rounded, as the materials of which they are constructed, I think is a very hard cement. A Gray metal is also found in this cavern, which puzzles the scientists, for its identity has not been established. It resembles platinum."

"Strewn promiscuously over the floor everywhere are what people call 'cats eyes,' a yellow stone of no great value. Each one is engraved with the head of the Malay type."

THE HIEROGLYPHICS

"On all the urns, or walls over doorways, and tablets of stone which were found by the image are the mysterious hieroglyphics, the key to which the Smithsonian Institute hopes yet to discover. The engraving on the tablets probably has something to do with the religion of the people. Similar hieroglyphics have been found in southern Arizona. Among the pictorial writings, only two animals are found. One is of prehistoric type."

THE CRYPT

"The tomb or crypt in which the mummies were found is one of the largest of the chambers, the walls slanting back at an angle of about 35 degrees. On these are tiers of mummies, each one occupying a separate hewn shelf. At the bead of each is a small bench, on which is found copper cups and pieces of broken swords. Some of the mummies are covered with clay, and all are wrapped in a bark fabric. The urns or cups on the lower tiers are crude, while as the higher shelves are reached, the urns are finer in design, showing a later stage of civilization."

"It is worthy of note that all the mummies examined so far have proved to be male, no children or females being buried here. This leads to the belief that this exterior section was the warriors' barracks. Among the discoveries, no bones of animals have been found, no skins, no clothing, no bedding. Many of the rooms are bare but for water vessels. One room, about 40 by 700 feet, was probably the main dining hall, for cooking utensils are found here."

"What these people lived on is a problem, though it is presumed that they came south in the winter and farmed in the valleys, going back north in the summer. Upwards of 50,000 people could have lived in the caverns comfortably. One theory is that the present Indian tribes found in Arizona are descendants of the serfs or slaves of the people, which inhabited the cave. Undoubtedly a good many thousand of years before the Christian era a people lived here which reached a high stage of civilization. The chronology of human history is full of gaps."

Professor Jordan much enthused over the discoveries and believes that the find will prove of incalculable value in archaeological work.

"One thing I have not spoken of, may be of interest. There is one chamber, the passageway to which is not ventilated, and when we approached it a deadly, snaky smell struck us. Our light would not penetrate the gloom, and until stronger ones are available, we will not know what the chamber contains. Some say snakes, but other boo-hoo'd this idea and think it may contain a deadly gas or chemicals used by the ancients. No sounds are heard, but it smells snaky just the same."

"The whole underground installation gives one of shaky nerves the creeps. The gloom is like a weight on one's shoulders, and our flashlights and candles only make the darkness blacker. Imagination can revel in conjectures and ungodly daydreams back through the ages that have elapsed till the mind reels dizzily in space."

AN INDIAN LEGEND

In connection with this story, it is notable that among the Hopi Indians the tradition is told that their ancestors once lived in an underworld in the Grand Canyon till dissension arose between the good and the bad, the people of one heart and people of two hearts.

Machetto, who was their chief, counseled them to leave the under world, but there was no way out. The chief then caused a tree to grow up and pierce the roof of the underworld, and then the people of one heart climbed out. They tarried by Paisisvai (Red River), which is the Colorado, and grew grain and corn. They sent out a message to the Temple of the Sun, asking the blessing of peace, good will and rain for people of one heart. That messenger never returned, but today at the Hopi villages at sundown can be seen the old men of the tribe out on the housetops gazing toward the sun, looking for the messenger. When he returns, their lands and ancient dwelling place will be restored to them. That is the tradition.

Among the engravings of animals in the cave is seen the image of a heart over the spot where it is located. The legend was learned by W.E. Rollins the artist, during a year spent with the Hopi Indians. There are two theories of the origin of the Egyptians. One is that they came from Asia; another that the racial cradle was in the upper Nile region. Heeren, an Egyptologist, believed in the Indian origin of the Egyptians. The discoveries in the Grand Canyon may throw further light on human evolution and prehistoric ages.

><><><> end of article <><><><




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Posted: Oct 21 2004, 09:20 AM
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Hi, PuPP and all interested! I found a site that has a better pic of the "mummy wall" and a description of the find:

QUOTE
The Crypt

The tomb or crypt in which the mummies were found is one of the
largest of the chambers, the walls slanting back at an angle of
about 35 degrees. On these are tiers of mummies, each one occupying
a separate hewn shelf. At the head of each is a small bench, on
which is found copper cups and pieces of broken swords. Some of the mummies are covered with clay, and all are wrapped in a dark fabric.
The urns or cups on the lower tiers are crude, while as the higher shelves are reached, the urns are finer in design, showing a later stage of civilization. It is worthy of note that all the mummies examined so far have proved to be male, no children or females being buried here.


http://www.gci-net.com/users/v/vrartist/crypt1.html

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Posted: Oct 21 2004, 02:04 PM
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The illustrations are digital art by Jack Andrews of Ariziona done for Ancient American magazine. Google Jack Andrew's site for the most comprehesive research ever done on this subject as well as his discovery of Arabic petroglyps in southern Arizona. I have corresponded with Jack over the last four years since he and Steve Miller first presented the "The Footprint of Masau" on the web. He used to post at Hancock's forum along with Gene Matlock whom many of you may know from his books and articles on Viewzone. Jack has a forum which has languished for lack of input on Topica forums under Lost Civilization of the Grand Canyon. I urge all of you to visit Jack's site for the most spin free factual information currently available on this subject.

Jack has also done some reconstructions of the Pyramids in the lake in Wisconsin and the drowned Adena sites in the Midwest.

The link BJ provided is Jack's site; enjoy.


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Posted: Oct 21 2004, 02:26 PM
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QUOTE
"The tomb or crypt in which the mummies were found is one of the largest of the chambers, the walls slanting back at an angle of about 35 degrees. On these are tiers of mummies, each one occupying a separate hewn shelf. At the bead of each is a small bench, on which is found copper cups and pieces of broken swords.


This gives the article more credibility in a way because if you look at ancient celtic society, the swords of a warrior were bent or broken when a warrior died.

With the ancient norse, swords were often passed down in families. It would have been possible for a 10th century AD viking to have a much older sword.

The article says these swords are made of copper, possibly annealed copper since they were hardened. The problem here is Behmer and Viking type swords are from a much later date in the Iron Age. The hilts are perfectly characteristic of iron age germanic swords.

The simple lines of these swords evolved into the classic cruciform sword of the middle ages by way of the highly effective slashing swords used by the Normans, who were of viking descent.

BUT, there are earlier examples of older cultures having a form of cruciform sword. The Greeks certainly did. Another problem is that the classical greek sword of the type (hoplite type in particular) was known for having a narrow-waisted leaf shaped blade. The swords in the image are broad and nearly parallel edged, still characteristic of iron age germanic swords. They seem to be much longer than greek swords too.

There were mediteranean swords of the ancient times that were longer, but they had narrow blades that terminated into a very sharp point, like a 17th century AD rapier. The most famous of these is the Mycaenean thrusting sword.

There were also mediteranean swords with broad parallel edged blades, but they were much shorter. Swords are not thought to have truly develeoped until the bronze age, when long daggers became even longer.

I can also remark about the hilt style and apparent construction of the swords in the picture because one shows what looks like a tang cap or nut attaching the hilt to the blade. Some older examples do exist, but that wasnt common until the Roman era. Bronze age swords usually were cast as a solid piece and the final bits of the handle were added afterwards as decorated wooden or bone slabs riveted to the tang.
Again the hilt looks more like the hilt of a viking or germanic sword, of an early type, but if this is the case it would be no older than I'd guess perhaps 300 AD and no newer than about 1000 AD.
450 AD would be about the right age for a Behmer sword.

Keep in mind this was the Migration Period, the heroic age of the germanic peoples and they were traveling and exploring all over the place.


But a sword of that type, made of copper?

Now that's weird.

I only have three explanations:

#1 - Maybe these were symbolic swords made only for burials in order to preserve the valuable iron originals. Look for signs of use on the swords such as nicks on the edges or signs of repeated sharpenings to rule this out.

#2 - Perhaps these swords have iron copper clad blades. The Norse were fond of using a silver or gold foil-like covering on their artifacts. Maybe copper wouldnt be ruled out?

#3 - For all we know, the iron age norse and germanics found a similar burial in their regions and copied them? We know from history that these 'barbarians' from the north were the most technologically advanced people in europe of their time. Their swords set the pattern of most european swords for the next several centuries and they developed a sail design that could tack against the wind.
We also know that the vikings traveled far and wide...


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Posted: Oct 21 2004, 02:53 PM
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Wahya, it is pointless to rationalize the origin of the swords pictured because Jack invented for the the illustration along with everything else. They are the product of informed imagination. None of the material has been seen by anyone except the original discoverers since 1909. All indications are that if the story is true, and Jack admits that there is no hard evidence that it is, the material is from a much earlier period. Try the Yellow Emperor period of around 2000 BC which surviving traditions indicate is the time of the explorations that discovered the land in the east.

Also bear in mind that the secret to hardening copper was known in ancient Iran, lost and never regained; a true lost art. Also remember the first American Copper Age of 3000 BC which declined and was not revived until around 1500 BC in a much cruder expression. The Grand Canyon material is far older than the Viking Age. The Inyo site in California also indicates an Arabic expedition from a much later date which might explain the Arabic in Arizona as well.

The UFO in the Grand Canyon is the most ephemeral and apocryphal of all included in this thread. I don't dismiss it out of hand but it lacks the substance of even the Arizona Gazette piece.


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Posted: Oct 21 2004, 03:51 PM
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Thanks for the link BJ!

That is the Jack Andrews site that Tex stated - but it appears lacking of any knowledge or information other than his artwork.

Excellant sword knowledge Wahya - impressive indeed!

Tex,
So Jack Andrews made an artistic impression from what source?

This sketch below (and above) looks different from his artwork.

user posted image

Why wouldn't he re-create his artwork in the same manner as the original sketch?

Mummies should be laying down not standing up... correct?

Or were there more mummies?

In regards to a hint of a report of an ancient craft being discovered, either one of two things have happened...

Ancient technologies have been rediscovered or have always been here and kept secret by an advanced race. Or both!

My bet is BOTH!

The evidence for UFOs in ancient artwork is proof enough for me.





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Posted: Oct 21 2004, 04:58 PM
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This is interesting.

QUOTE
"In the ancient Near East... when working gold by streaming, nodules of cassiterite (or tin-stone SnO2) were found. This cassiterite was reduced by workers already proficient in the production of gold, silver and lead. The metal obtained was held to be a kind of lead. [In Sanskrit, the term for lead is: na_ga. In Akkadian, the term for tin is: anakku). Lead and antimony were already used to increase the ease with which copper could be cast, but neither of them improved in its other qualities, notably the tensile strength. From trials with the new kind of 'lead', it would be learnt that this mixture was now improved in tensile strength as well as in ease of casting. Nor was it necessary to produce this new metal first; unrefined copper had only to be smelted with charcoal and stream-tin to produce a new kind of 'copper' (ayas in Rigveda), namely bronze, with superior qualities for tools and weapons. At the same time, certain naturally mixed ores were also worked, and were found to give the better kind of 'copper' directly. We have no proof that the tin compound of these mixed ores was ever isolated or recognized. Furthermore, at this early stage the tin content of the bronze could not be adequately controlled, and therefore varied between fairly wide limits." (Adapted from: R.J.Forbes, 1954, Extracting, smelting and alloying, in: Charles Singer, E.J.Holmyard and AR Hall (eds.), 1954, A History of Technology, Oxford, Clarendon Press).





user posted image

Mesopotamian depiction of a warrior circa 2500 BC with a battle axe and sapara style sickle-sword. The sickle-sword became the primary infantry weapon of the Egyptian and Biblical armies at a much later date. When the Bible speaks of peoples being "smoted," the reference is precisely to the sickle-sword. The fact that the sickle-sword appears on two independent renderings of the same period suggests strongly that the Sumerians invented this important weapon sometime around 2500 B.C.

The development of the bronze socket axe remains one of Sumer's major military innovations, one that conferred a significant military advantage. Ancient axe makers had difficulty in affixing the axeblade to the shaft with sufficient strength so as to allow it to remain attached when striking a heavy blow. The use of the cast bronze socket, which slipped over the head of the shaft and could be secured with rivets, allowed a much stronger attachment of the blade to the shaft. It is likely that the need for a stronger axe arose in response to the development of some type of body armor that made the cutting axe less effective as a killing instrument. Further, Sumerian axes by 2500 B.C. clearly show a change in design. The most significant change was a narrowing of the blade so as to reduce the impact area and bring the blade to more of a point. The development marks the beginning of the penetrating axe, whose narrow blade and strong socket made it capable of piercing bronze plate armor. The result was the introduction of one of the most devastating weapons of the ancient world, a weapon that remained in use for two thousand years.

user posted image
These swords were so beautiful and graceful looking.
Bronze sapara style sickle-sword, 1307–1275 B.C.; Middle Assyrian period, reign of Adad-nirari I
Length: 21 3/8 in. (54.3 cm)
The cuneiform inscription on the blade reads:"Palace of Adad-nirari, king of the universe, son of Arik-den-ili, king of Assyria, son of Enlil-nirari, king of Assyria"
Also on both sides of the blade is an engraving of an antelope reclining on some sort of platform.


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Posted: Oct 21 2004, 05:17 PM
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I'll have to look up Jack's other site which goes into great detail on his research. I know he was putting together a cd with all his information about a year ago. As I said all artwork is imagination; as far as I know there are no original drawings nor photographs or even a single artifact. This leads skeptics to suggest that it was a newpaper ploy to increase readership. The stories and photos David Hatcher Childress collected on the Pteradactyls in the southwest suggest this might have been the case with some. Itinerant photographers roamed the Arizona Territory in the 19th century with a lot of idle time to execise their imagination. There's a book called "Adventures in Apacheria 1875" that gives a very realistic picture of the people and their sensibilties. One of the real life characters is a woman photographer stranded in Mexico looking for a place "with a little more snap". I also have seen examples of early photography that would shame a present day digital artist.


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Posted: Oct 21 2004, 05:32 PM
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http://www.gci-net.com/users/v/vrartist/ This is the site with the original information and links.


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